OK then, let it go :)
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OK then, let it go :)
Are we really conservative? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
அதாவது, யாமறிந்த தமிழ்நாடு :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
Things have definitely changed over the last decade. Still, even in the west, I don't think parents are oblivious to the actual workplace of their daughters, unless they are apathetic. That is, in the case of non-Indians. Indians are certainly concerned.
I'd be still surprised that the parents haven't visited at least once their girl's workplace, which is not far-off from where they live!
I think, people those who grew up in India - brought up in a conservative culture- and visited and settled in a "liberal land" and bringing up their children in the "liberal land" are not able to understand the "culture" we have today in India!Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
The only conservativeness we still have there is that "arranged marriage" and "matrimony". The most big-mouthed liberal person in India who supports premarital sex and extramarital affairs will also settle for an arranged marriage -dumping the one with whom he/she slept with!
Yeah, they are liberal because they want to have sex before marriage But they are conservative too because they wont mind dumping the person with whom they slept with and doing an arranged marriage for satisfying their parents! This is the kind of "liberalness/conservativeness" I see now in India especially from the young open-minded people!
thamiz,
As I said in my post, I'm not even talking about Indians in the west.
I have 2 veLLaikkArikaL in our team and both have teenage daughters. Since we often have to sit in the same team room, I'm forced to hear their deep concern / discussions for their daughters (whether they'll shock them with some pregnancy news, need to take them to this game, that show, what college course will they take, which city they'll live, getting a dormitory where boys cannot sleep-in etc, all the time).
Normal parents have concern about their children (especially grown-up / unmarried daughters) in all the "cultures".
The cultureless, ofcourse, do not care :-)
Again, you certainly are talking about the parents who are upper-middle class or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
What about the poor hispanic and black community?
You think they think just like your colleague? They just wan tto make their living somehow. I think that is what happening with our "middle class" liberal indians today. Money ! That is all they care!
And, as I mentioned in a couple of posts in "last song" thread of TF forum, here is definitely a liberal land. (I wrote there about my 17 yr old's school play where he had a lip-kiss, some eye-to-eye looking dance etc on stage with a 18 yr old beauty).
Still, there's always widespread concern / stress about curfew. Also, in every social gathering I attend with locals here, you should see the passion with which they discuss about the under-age-drinking problem (which many in TN no longer seem to care).
Ofcourse, majority do not care about spending for children's college (expensive and children are made to work / take loans rather than parents spending, which is opposite to the Indian way). At the same time, I see total anguish, rallying to support etc, almost in every case, of a child who becomes an unwed mother!
75% of my social associations are with these people. They are always as much concerned about children as us, in my observation :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
a-e: People buy vote and win today in TN! It does not happen anywhere but in our great TN or India. We are progressing much faster than america! :lol:
I am really talking about real poor class here, a-q :)Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
Well, we're not talking about people who live in the brink of the society (whether in TN or anywhere, drug addicts / criminals etc). Such cases should not be considered when we talk about a graduate girl's parents recovering their daughter unconscious on the eve of voyage to Canada :-)
We're only talking about families -including the single parent ones, who work hard to make a living.
To put it more clear, those african americans / hispanics whom I associate with here in Detroit - none of them are college grads or in the software industry :-) Most average $10-15 an hour.
Another point, among americans in general, I see a lot more concern for children than spouses :-(
People change spouses so many times during their lifetime that they can have children / step children from multiple marriages / visitation rights this that etc.
Still, they try to take care, till the children are on their own.
Recently, a friend's step daughter came to live with him - who is in her 30's - divorced, lost her home, pregnant. This is not unusual among african americans in the Detroit area as I've seen many cases of grown-ups living with parents.
I'm often ashamed of the "they-don't-care-about-kids" opinion that I formed wrongly during my 3 month visit to California in 95-96 (which I've foolishly also shared with my associates in India) :-(
வழிப்போக்கனாக இல்லாமல், உடன் வாழ்ந்து பார்த்தால் தெரியும் சித்திரம் அதிகத்தெளிவானது.
At least 10% (should be more) of a-a families in Detroit area are single-parent type, mostly the woman (men have left, got killed, in jail etc).
Not highly educated, most do menial to ordinary jobs.
Most have 2 or more children.
While we hear about child-abuse-lack-of-care etc on and off on news, such are really really a small, miniscule percentage. Since people away from such people only get to see such newscast, they believe "most" people are like that. (Well, yes, I'm also wondering the same way about TN based on a few dinathanthi news that could be extreme cases).
Only those who live and actively move around (outgoing / interactive etc) with any group of people / society can form a reasonably correct opinion :-)
I find most of the AA men are irresponsible even today. Divorced single-mother is OK. Single mothers bcos of Teen pregnancy and having children without marriage are very common in that community. Lot of times they are anti-abortion believers too!
I am not saying everybody is like that. Look at even Obama! He was brought up only by his mom!Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
Sadly, it is true. However, you may notice that the "available" parent still cares for that child and tries to support within whatever little means she has. (Tries to get whatever gov help that can be arranged etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
I know of a lady who had three children each with a different last name (all-without-marriage) but your should see how she tries to protect her children! The first one, a girl, recently got married and the other two are now grown-ups living with the mom and the mother spends almost all her non-working time for them!
Our daughter living in the US for the past few months told me the other day about the extreme priority given to children there and how strictly they are safegaurded. She added jokingly the advantage of continuing to talk in Tamil unlike many natives who switch over to English even to converse among themselves is she can freely admonish her very mischievous 2nd son,'veettukku vaa, unakku nalla veLu irukku!' without fear of herself being put behind the bars for cruelty against a child!
:rotfl: And will advocate for hours and hours for indian culture a few years later. :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiz
So there actually are no conservatives or liberals in india....is that what ur saying?
I'm not sure u know what "Liberal" or "Conservative" Actually Means....:?Quote:
Yeah, they are liberal because they want to have sex before marriage But they are conservative too because they wont mind dumping the person with whom they slept with and doing an arranged marriage for satisfying their parents!
Oppression has a Lasting Effect. Eg: If Generation #1 is Oppressed, the effects of that will last until Generation #4 in one way or the other. That's how Oppression works. Even though there isn't any Visible Oppression of the AA Man, the effects of it have lasted so long. When families have a history of Criminal Activity, it's most likely to continue to the next generation. Kids Imitate very well...Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
The Criminal Life was forced upon these people due to several centuries of oppression, and those Criminal Activities have been kept up until now. Same thing goes for things like Drug Use and Alcoholism.
And this is a Vicious Cycle because of so many things. For Eg: The schools which have a predominantly black population get worse and worse every year because of lack of Funding. The Govt increases funding to schools which prove themselves, so Rocklin High (The HS I went to) gets a new Swimming Pool, Tennis Courts, Broadband Internet, and 4 ADDITIONAL Computers to every classroom.
Where as Richmond High (Which had a majority of Blacks and Hispanics) lost it's Library due to Govt Cuts, because of lack of performance or something! Taking the Library away further kills the chances of any improvement. Also Rocklin High had the latest editions of textbooks, Richmond was still usuing the textbooks from the Mid Nineties. (I graduated in 06, so it's a huge time gap.)
Some (and the numbers are increasing) are strong enough to fight against all of this and to live a good life, and hopefully send their kids to a school like Rocklin High, but most just go with the flow, and let their environment mold their impressionable minds at a young age.
Just To Be Clear: I'm not saying that the American Govt is systematically Destroying chances of improvement of blacks and hispanics on lines of racial hatred. Generally Schools that prove more Academic Worth, get more funding as an encouragement. That's what I was talking abt.
I am saying today's youth in INdia are hypocrites too! :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya
Indian born confused desies! :lol:
You dont have to look for a good example for that! :lol:
thamiz! :wink: :lol:
Not only youth, even the middle-aged parents-generation is increasingly becoming hypocrites! :cry: As you rightly pointed out it is all for money!!!
I was born in Oakland! :rotfl3: but I did do 2-4th grade in B'lore tho. :thumbsup:
Are u reffering to this?Quote:
I am saying today's youth in India are hypocrites too! :roll:
But after coming to India I've come across so many ppl who advocate against pre-marital sex, but have themselves done it when the Opportunity came. So what are they? Hypocritical Conservatives? Or Just Hypocritical Youth? How do u come to that conclusion? :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiz
Just goes on to Prove: "Virginity is not dignity, it's just the lack of opportunity!"
Such Contradicting and Confusing Statements! :lol2: :clap:Quote:
But they are conservative too because they wont mind dumping the person with whom they slept with and doing an arranged marriage for satisfying their parents!
That's got nothing to do with Conservative or Liberal...that's why I said "I'm not sure u mean what Conservative or Liberal is..."
Who's to say that a Liberal won't dump "The person he is sleeping with", to satisfy his parents. :lol2: :huh:
Or:
Who's to say that a Conservative will Definatly NOT have a Lover before Marriage? :confused2:
Are you saying "True" Conservatives (Whatever in hell that means) don't ever have any Lovers, or any stories of "Failed" Love Stories because of Parent's Consent? :huh:
Or:
Assuming from what you said, Does having a Failed Love Story because of fear of Parent's Discontent mean that ur a Liberal? :lol2:
Next Time, Please Atleast Be Clear in ur Statements! Make up ur mind! :thumbsup: :oops: :lol2:
Surya, it may sound strange or impossible, but there are still thousands of young girls and boys in my neighbourhood who do not entertain 'love' affairs seriously or playfully- the idea just doesn't occur to them. They repose their faith in their parents to choose their life partner, and no nonsensical idea of 'romancing' in the meantime!!!
Also, Who advocated Extramarital Affairs? :confused2:
No Doubt another "liberal who wants to have sex before marriage But is conservative too because they wont mind dumping the person with whom they slept with and doing an arranged marriage for satisfying their parents!" :lol2: :wink:
Good For Them! :2thumbsup: But I was wondering what ppl who advocate against pre-marital sex, but have themselves done it when the Opportunity came, would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam
There are thousands and thousands of those people in India too! And I'm not just talking abt the youth. :roll: What are they? Liberal or Conservative? They sure call themselves Conservative, and in Vetti Discussions always advocate for Celibacy until Marriage.
In that case "Conservative Hypocrates" or Liberal Spies? :P
'Vetti Discussions always advocate for Celibacy until Marriage'- :sigh2: Why do you want to make the fact a myth? Why are you so cynical? Just why wouldn't you believe that there are thousands of young boys and girls with policy about this matter?
Just curious, what ddi your parents advocate you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya
Safe sex?
At waht age they gave you the freedom?
Teen or Preteen?
:? I think u Misunderstood PP Ma'am.
By Vetti Discussions, I meant the many discussions which occur due to abundance of free time, or which never amount to anything.
Like this one. It's a Vetti Discussion for both sides. Because we both have an abundance of time on our hands, and these discussions rarely amount to anything.
I never said that....:? I know there are thousands of ppl who stay virgins until marriage. To say that there aren't any wouldn't make me any better than some other confused hubbers. :notthatway:Quote:
Just why wouldn't you believe that there are thousands of young boys and girls with policy about this matter?
That's beside the matter tho... But it is true, and I've seen it SOOOO MANY TIMES, that many ppl stay virgins because they don't have any opportunity. (Not undermining the will of those who really follow it.)
'But it is true, and I've seen it SOOOO MANY TIMES, that many ppl stay virgins because they don't have any opportunity.' -I strongly object to this statement of yours, Surya! How brilliant you are! Now I really realise it is a 'vetti' activity- arguing with you! I do not indulge in these discussions just as 'vetti' pastime or just because I've nothing better to engae myself with! Understand?
Awww....U wanted to say something, so u decided to say something irrelevant rather than clearing up and making up ur mind abt ur opinions. :lol2: :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
It's wokay, My parents are against this whole "Sex Before Marraige" thing.
@ What age did i get the freedom to do what? Date? Or Something else? :huh:
Date - When I was 15 Years.
Really? Thanks for sharing this biit of information HONESTLY! It helps a lot! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Surya
WHOA!! Why do ppl always shy away when they hear the truth?? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam
Objection is based one what? What is there to be offended abt? :? The latter part of that messege of mine which u quoted also said "Not undermining the will of those who really follow it." This means that there are thousands who also stay virgins because they believe in it, which is infact admirable because it shows the strength of their belief system. :?
Anywayz, I guess it's too hard hitting that sometimes ppl stay virgins because they don't have a choice.....:roll:
Spoken like a true cadre of the Pre-Judging Morale Police! :thumbsup: 8-) :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by thamiz
Umm...u still didn't make any sense back there. :oops:
You made everything clear to me, though! Good job! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Surya
well ain't that nice.... :lol:
Likewise Tamiz...likewise. :D
bitter truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya
Surya, thanks anyway for your mangnimity about the 'will' which does not undermine your wanton accusation of having no chance! :huh: mukkukku mukku wineshop! 24-hr loud, shameless ads for condom! 24hrs shameless skin show on the small screen! Lenient rules to pursue goals of higher education in this competitive world! Vulgarity everywhere- audio and video! Newly emboldened womankind, aided by favourable laws! Utterly no shackles to keep her at home! you talk about opportunities! I salute the brave young girls and boys who continue to shine with moral dignity and human virtue!
So ur saying that no one stays a virgin because they don't have the opportunity? Any1 who is a virgin is one because of their pure Dynamic Will Power to save themselves until marriage? There are many ppl here espicially guys who APPARENTLY don't support pre-marital sex, but have done it when they got the chance. If they didn't get that chance, then they probably would've still stayed as virgins until their parents found some1 for them. What are they then? Are u going to deny the existance of these type of people. :huh:Quote:
Surya, thanks anyway for your mangnimity about the 'will' which does not undermine your wanton accusation of having no chance! :huh:
///mukkukku mukku wineshop!////
And still at the end of the day, around 9, it's hard to get a few quarters of Rum to celebrate Passing Internal Examinations! :cry: JK! But I agree! Therez too many, that too in many decent "Family" Areas.
///shameless ads for condom!///
India needs that! Look @ Our population! I went for Sura and almost got squished to pulp.
///24hrs shameless skin show on the small screen!///
So this should be stopped? Like Indian channels should practice extream censorship, and foreign channels like HBO, Star Movies, etc etc should be banned?
//Newly emboldened womankind, aided by favourable laws! Utterly no shackles to keep her at home!//
:shock: :o OMG!!!
//you talk about opportunities!///
Yes!! Even with all of this, getting laid consistently with different girls is pretty hard to do. :lol: All jokes aside:
PP Ma'am, do u realize that all the things u mentioned, all of the things which u think are wrong with Indian Society...If all those things were stopped and controlled....we'd be living in a Talibanised Nazi Germany!!
* Extreme Censorship or Press and Media Entertainment!
* Keeping Women In The House with Shackles (Literal or Figurative, It doesn't matter!)
* No More newly Emboldened Women
* No More Condom Commercials, which lead to even more ignorance, and mite even make india go through another population boom.
:cheer: :yes: :exactly: 8-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarna