Clarification

[nsomu]

We are in the process of forming a Tamil Sangam in this part of the Middle East. There was a petty debate regarding naming the organization. Please (any one) clarify whether we should include Tamil letter "Ch" after "Zh" while writing as "Tamil Sangam" (in Tamil)

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear nsomu,

Cha and zh depends on how you weigh on the subject. Thanjavur guys will pressurize everything while talking.

But madurai guys will talk light way.

Sangam,Sangu,santhi(junction) ,sangamam & sambavam have same root 'sam' -means club(ontru seruthal).

'Um' turned 'Am' & 'Am' turned 'sam' =ex. ummuthal,kummuthal,Ammuthal,amalthal,ambalam,amai-avai all have the same meaning (ontru seruthal).

'thirayar molzhi' turned tamilzhi and later as tamilzh.

Hence it is immaterial to workout for the sound that the alphabet produces.

Phylosophically(Imaginery also) If you use 'cha' and 'zh' it may give certainity. If you use l and s it may give cool nature. I think out of India cool nature is required.

[nsomu]

Dear Thiru Gandhi,

Vanakkam. My question was when we write Tamil Sangam in TAMIL, should we include the letter "CH" between Thamizh and Changam.

Your answer is elightening and I would like to talk to you...if you can give me your contact number.

Dr.Somu
00 966 508464462

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear thiru nsomu,

I am a new guy to saudi Arabia and my present location is in Jeddah working as an engineer.

I have to get 'iqamma' (accredition) you know, from saudi government to get cell no. for operation.

Company phone is there. But it would be not appropriate to talk through that.

Certainly I would talk to you during fridays.

In the meantime you can write a letter to my office.

The address is as follows.

F.S.GANDHI, B.E., Marketing and Quality Engineer,
P.O. Box. No. 2761, Jeddah 21461,
Saudi Arabia. Ph: 966 0 2665 2966 Ext: 406

You are also now in saudi arabia.

Let me know your location.

thank you,

f.s.gandhi

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear thiru nsomu,

By the by, I misunderstood your query. Sorry

According to tamil grammar 'ch' should be there. 'lzagaram mun chagara ottru eratikkum'- A 'nannul sutthiram'. ottru here consonent.

[nsomu]

Dear Thiru Gandhi,

Thanks for the information. It is surprising to note that most of the Tamil Sangams in the world have no "Ch" on their Logos. Only on four occasions I see "Ch" incorporated. Is it true that Grammar need not be followed while creating Logos... as one of my friends who's family is involved in making sign boards and logos for the past three generations, maintains?.

Dr. Somu
Riyadh

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear thiru nsomu,

Tamil is grown language even before 2000 years back.

It is better to follow the grammar to make similarities among different dialects in tamil nadu.

Any amendment in grammar can be made if necessity arises and that too authentical way ( a group of tamil veterans can decide and update the grammar) to accomodate tamil words newly invented that does not match with the grammar.

This was followed in sangam period. The 'nannul' grammar was written by nandi munivar during A.D.470 to accomodate north indian words(they are all shrinked tamil words only). Note nandi munivar's mother tongue is kannada.

After that nowhere in history grammar was changed. Perhaps all kings never bother about tamil during that time.

In my opinion grammatical poetry will long live than artificially created work like 'pudukavithai'.

Logos should also follow grammar. Because it appeals directly to people.

[nsomu]

Thank You Very Much Thiru Gandhi. To you and all those who pass through this forum I wish a Very Happy Parthiba Aandu.

Dr. Somu
Riyadh

[Sudhaama]

Strictly speaking... as per Tamil-Grammar and Nannool Sooththiram...

The first letter Consonant Letter... (Uyir-Mey-Ezhuththu) .. in a word... can have only one pronunciation as... Ka, Cha, Tha.. and so on... unlike other Indian-Languages... .. there can be only ONLY ONE Pronunciation for each letter... as Ka, Ga, Gha... Cha, Jaa, Jha.... and so on..

... Since the Phonetic or the Pronunciation is LETTER-BASED.. in those Languages

... whereas Tamil is the only Language in India... the Phonetics in which are SYLLABLE-BASED ... depending upon the leetersplacement as the case of English.

For example one Tamil letter "CHA"..

...is pronounced as ... CHA... in the word ... ."CHANGU"...

....but... as.... "SA".... in the word.... "KASAI".... and

....and ....in another Tamil word.. as..... "JA"... "PANJAM"

... for the same one and Sole Letter ... "CHA".

But all these Grammar-rules apply when you are writing the word in Tamil Script.

Even if it is a matter of Transliterationof a Tamil-word through English letters... this procedure may be adopted...

Whereas you are not doing either of them... but writing in English... for the convenience of one and all the People... you are going to deal with... especially in a Foreign-country...that too... in Saudi-Arabia... where I too was an Employee at Dhahran as a Senior-Civil-Enginer.... and so I can very well imagine the implications.... you are more concerned with ... than the Theoretical aspect of Tamil-grammar.

Practically speaking ... Non-Tamilians ... know our Language only as TAMIL.

... and the Word ...Sangam.. the adopted word Sanskrit.. . if you write strictly conforming to Tamil-grammatical theory... it will lead to more problems for you than serving its purpose...

... Whereas ... if you write as SANGAM... even Non-Tamilian Indian can easily grasp its meaning... because it is the common word in all the Indian Languages as well as well-known even in Thailand, Singapore, Srilanka , Myanmar, Nepal, Bhutan, Tibet... and so on... where Budhism is prevalent.

So PRACTICALLY SPEAKING... to serve its purpose... the Best option is.

..."TAMIL SANGAM".... for the Common usage... including Name-Board and Govt. Registration.

... whereas in the Transliteration of Tamil word into English.. it can be as...

.... THAMIZH CHANGAM.... in my opinion.

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear thiru nsomu,

Thiru sudhaama explained the practical applicabilities of logo/name board writing very well.

In english it can be 'tamil sangam'.

In tamil you can add up 'Ch' in the middle of tamilzh and changam.

All grammar works in tamil speaks only about words, their combination and their junction and not PHONETICS.

Because phonetics is practised through mouth and it can be expressed and transformed to next generations through mouth practice only. This will differ time to time and place to place.

In english somewhat they preserve this by identifying old best known word syllables. In tamil there is no such tradition.

I deviate from sudhaama' s opinion in this. I still not understand the letter based and syllable based phonetics explained in his passage and have doubt about that. I think this explanation is new to tamil.

I request sudhaama to explain more in this.

And one more thing from sudhaama's opinion is about the word sangam. Sangam is a tamil word. It originated from tamil. Its root is um-am-sam. Lot of words are there in tamil. Sangu is an example.

I can proove most of the sanskrit words are from tamil.

I request sudhaama to prove sangam is sanskrit word.

Dravidian parties adapted "kazhagam" a equivalent word of sangam thinking in the same way thiru sudhaama told.

I may open a thread regarding this sankrit-tamil myth.

f.s.gandhi