Hinduism, Initial concept of Shiva, Trinity...

[Sunil_M88]

There is no point in talking trying to understand the "Cosmic energy" as we will never understand it. Just understand that fact we are part of this "divine cosmic energy" within us! The rest are just Maya!

Exactly, that's why I've chosen to be an agnostic theist #circularreasoning

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Exactly, that's why I've chosen to be an agnostic theist #circularreasoning

[NOV]

sunil, giving up meat is good, giving up food as something that palates the taste is better....ie food only for survival
ridding ourselves completely of all desires will be the ultimate
that means no love, no greed, no envy, no disgust, no jealousy, no likes.... total detachment... its like watching ourselves acting out on the world stage without any feelings.
possible?
no?
lets enjoy life for what it is, without hurting or harming others.
that should suffice

[Sunil_M88]

Harming others, wrong? Yes!
Eating meat, wrong? No!

Sorry for stating the obvious but hunting and eating an animal is different to eating an animal which has been brought from supermarket, restaurant etc. I personally have no attention of killing an animal and eating it, no one does unless you're twisted or have no option of surviving. Yes, I agree more nutrients are present in veggie food but plants have lives as well, right?

What I find funny is in India, or generally in the olden days regardless of country the main source of food was meat. There are doctrines on animals being sacrificed to God (Hinduism), including cows.

This is where the conflicting of ideas lies, which supports the ideas of various beliefs being covered by the blanket term of Hinduism.

[NOV]

Eating meat, wrong? No!

when did i say that?

[Sunil_M88]

sunil, giving up meat is good

My bad, I stand corrected!

[NOV]

[anbu_kathir]

Sunil avargaLE.

I'm from London, one of the worlds multicultural melting pots

Good to know that.

Sanatana Dharma (The eternal law) as read on Wiki (A site open to edit) states that amongst polytheism, monotheism and pantheism even atheism is encompassed as a set of a belief.

If Wiki says that, Wiki is wrong. A system of faith can be a part of Sanatana Dharma if and only if it does not reject the claims of the Veda. And Sanatana Dharma is Hinduism. Atheism, which rejects belief in any supernatural entities whatsoever, rejects claims like rebirth and the principle of Karma, cannot be within Hinduism. A tradition can be a subtradition of Hinduism if and only if there is no rejection of the principle of rebirth, the principle of Karma (action reaction across births), the principle of Natural Order called Dharma, and the authority of the Veda in settling philosophical questions.

He saw a prayer book in my dorm and asked, "Do you know the meaning of every prayer you read or do you just recite it for the sake of praying?" I paused and he asked me again, "What's the point in praying, if you don't understand the prayer?"

For e.g. Gayatri Mantra - The most universal chant amongst Hinduism and different people from different sects chant this on a day to day basis. I did not know how to translate it and hence couldn't answer his question at that time. I took that scenario as a stepping stone and realized that it's only worth reciting a hymn/chant etc. if you understand it. Hence where possible I try to find translations, otherwise honestly it does seem pretty pointless.

Sunilji, there is no issue in trying to understand the meaning of a prayer before praying. But its incorrect to say that there is *no* use whatsoever in trying to pray without knowing its meaning.

For example, when we were children, we were taught many little rhymes to memorise and sing. From an adults perspective, the child has no understanding of these rhymes, their meaning is trivial, and therefore it is useless. Yet, it can definitely be said that these rhymes help the child to comprehend and reproduce sounds, to get some hold on the form and structure of language, and does indeed contribute in a small way to the child's development. Similarly, during school, we were taught so many subjects which are not relevant to our life today. Yet studying each of these subjects was not useless, simply because they helped us to understand how to go about studying itself (besides the obvious GK, increase in memory capacity,etc).


Of course, the analogies above only to illustrate a point that there are several things in our life which are useful even before we understand their meaning. In the same way, the prayers, even without understanding the meaning, reap fruit if they are chanted with faith and humility. The fruits of prayer will be more if they are told keeping the meaning in mind, but they are not useless even otherwise. Of course, really speaking this statement about prayer has to be taken on faith only.

Another notion he put forward, was that all different religious books are manmade. It’s not really the word of God!

There is no evidence for the claim that all religious books are man made. But it is definitely a logical statement. If you have read about the Veda, you would have noticed that it has no authorship associated with it, which is rather unlike the other religions.

But after visiting holy places, e.g. mosque, churches and mandir’s I do feel there is God beyond our body. When visiting these places of worship, generally there are herds of people who share and are surrounded by the same divine energy. I too feel this energy and don’t think it’s just a contagious feeling that everyone does just to fit in the scene.

First I must ask you here. What you do think "God" is anyway? Is it a person or something else? Without defining it, it might not be accurate to say that "God is beyond our body" or "God is within each of us". People generally have some conceptualization of "God" as a "non-material" entity that they know from common parlance. But the technical definition(s) for God in Hinduism is(are) different and rather based on common sense and the individual's capability to understand.

I told him that I don’t see the idea of worshiping a stone to which he replied, “Did you know that idol worshiping exists in Islam?”

No devout Hindu believes he is "worshiping a stone". There is no awkwardness in his manner of worshiping, for through the stone shines the Lord himself and he is pretty clear that it is that Lord that is worshiped. People who claim to not worship idols and yet claim to be religious are funny, because they then start worshiping some other symbol, like the Swastika or Om or the Kabba or a Cross or some other mental image. The essential point here is that *any* form of worship requires an image as a second entity to oneself. Now this image can be either material or mental. There can really be *no* worship but idol worship, only that in some cases the idol is actually made of some material, in other cases, it is an insignia, and in some others, it is a mental image. In any case, to one who is a believer, each represents the Divinity only.

Nov, WRT to our convo on FB, the day we meet, before doing anything else, we should deffo go for a phat mea

I don't remember us chatting on facebook! Perhaps I am forgetting things, or you got me confused with someone else.

Love and Light.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Folks

Let’s apply some logics here, where does this idea of "GOD" come in your mind? You come out of your mother’s womb and awestruck by all the creation around you, so by applying a bit of logic and you come to a conclusion that in order for the creations to exist, there must be a creator / GOD. This concept exists within your mind!

This concept does not exist for you when you are asleep, unconscious or in a coma. But you are still alive right, how ? It is that divine cosmic energy is still residing within you! This is why you should turn inwards to seek spirituality. But Majority of people seek the Creator outside using the 5 sensory organs, these organs are meant for survival and are capable detecting the physical elements only. GOD/CREATOR/COSMIC ENERGY is not physical, hence can not be understood by sensory organs!

[Sunil_M88]

Sir, your post was definitely enlightening and throughly thought provoking. I think my doubts have been cleared and will definite forward your passage about praying to my friend.

First I must ask you here. What you do think "God" is anyway? Is it a person or something else? Without defining it, it might not be accurate to say that "God is beyond our body" or "God is within each of us". People generally have some conceptualization of "God" as a "non-material" entity that they know from common parlance. But the technical definition(s) for God in Hinduism is(are) different and rather based on common sense and the individual's capability to understand.

The FB line was only directed to NOV, so please dw and it's because he used cuisine as a metaphor for polytheism which reminded me of our private banter which has nothing to do with the context of this thread