Languages : Just a medium for communication or a barrier?

[Hulkster]

Let me explain why i created this topic. To me basically i am not so into language..in specific terms i just look at it as a medium for communicating with others...so i dunt mind even if a tamil person talked to me in english..and when you look at it logically its only purpose is communication..but lately i have seen people who are so dedicated to their language that it sounds like as if it is a integral part of a human being's life and their response to those who are uncomfortable with the language is even more shocking.

My question is this..should language be just used as a medium of communication and nothing else just like in reality or should it be given more significance if it has other purposes(purposes other than forms of communication)?

[pavalamani pragasam]

Definitely language is more than a medium for communication!

[crazy]

Definitely language is more than a medium for communication!

:exactly:

[dev]

To me, it's just a medium for communication...

[NOV]

udal mannukku uyir thamizhukku

[pavalamani pragasam]

athu!

[Shakthiprabha.]

To me, it's just a medium for communication...


To me basically i am not so into language..in specific terms i just look at it as a medium for communicating with others...so i dunt mind even if a tamil person talked to me in english..and when you look at it logically its only purpose is communication..

:yes:

language is ONLY ' MEANS OF COMMUNICATION'.

NOT AN IDENTITY.

Apart from that, I do not see language as anything beyond means of communication.

LOVE for one's mother language is natural to be PRESENT and I am no exception.

Sorry beyond that, NOT DEVOTION OR BHAKTHI.

[crazy]

"Language" is what that brought me and still keeps me hubbing in this forumhub :)

To me, language is my identity :D

[Roshan]

To me it is much more than a medium of Communication.

"If you talk to a man in a language he understands that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart - Nelson Mandela

Heart Vs Head - That simply says why language is more than a medium of communication :)

[Roshan]

To me, language is my identity :D

Well Said !!! :thumbsup:

[Hulkster]

Guys..i mean what real-life purpose does it have....i know that some of us might like others talking in our language but this is more of preference..what i mean is real-life purposes..does it help human beings to do anything else besides any forms of communication..things like identity are more of separation barriers which is only dividing the already divided human race further and also troublesome for people who may not be comfortable with that language(Let us first remember that all are individuals in their own rights..they cannot be forced to learn a language just for the sake of being "identified" when their only purpose is to communicate with another human being unless that human being only knows that language)

Let me clarify that i wunt take patriotism,identity,human preferences as an answer for why language is more than just a medium of communication..i want purposes that really help in a human's life...like for example without basic assembly language a computer cannot survive.

[crazy]

To me, language is my identity :D

Well Said !!! :thumbsup:

ppl r different from what we know :roll: :shock: :oops:

anyway thanks akka :notworthy:

[crazy]

Let me clarify that i wunt take patriotism,identity,human preferences as an answer for why language is more than just a medium of communication..i want purposes that really help in a human's life...like for example without basic assembly language a computer cannot survive.

if "knowing ur self" is a part of an individuals development, then i guess we can take language as a something more than a medium of communication!

to me my language doesn't only give me identity, but also strength, hope, pride, history, family .........................willingness to survive!(not me, but i want my people to survive) :)

[Hulkster]

But what if i am a multi linguist ?....the terms you talk of apply to a individual bred only of one language and that too more of his/her preference..you have to take into account those who might have parents from different nationalities.

BTW we may want to remember that this language was passed down by many generations to us and we must keep it..but that does not mean it is very important for survival or anything...humans can still survive without their mother tongue since when it comes to communication they are capable of learning another language unless their mindset is totally fixed on one language and theres a refusal..which in this case does not mean that their language is important but it is rather made to seem important.

[Hulkster]

Let me say something regarding preference. For example i love tamil alot....i feel proud and significant when i speak,write tamil....i feel pleased when someone talks tamil to me...i feel intelligent when i am able to converse tamil fluently without any mistakes...theres a sort of love...but even though my mindset keeps on telling me this language is dear to me...in reality...what i have been doing is making use of its purpose which is forms of communication despite its effect on me...What crazy said is more of patriotism...also largely maginified like the first example but in reality also used as a forms of communication....so i believe you guys know that i want real-life purposes as in how it helps human beings survive other than forms of communication.

[Shakthiprabha.]

hulk, :thumbsup:

[crazy]

.............so i believe you guys know that i want real-life purposes as in how it helps human beings survive other than forms of communication.

:roll: what kind of answer r u expecting, Hulk?

well i dont think its helps :roll: other than being for communication purpose, if it was, i guess they would have added language as one of the basic necessities!
ennavo theriyala/ puriyala :oops:

[Anoushka]

For me language is more than just a means of communication... When I learn a new language I enjoy the songs in that language, get to read the books in original language, learn more from talking to people in their language and learning more :)

[dev]

To me it is much more than a medium of Communication.

"If you talk to a man in a language he understands that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart - Nelson Mandela

Heart Vs Head - That simply says why language is more than a medium of communication :)

That is being narrow minded,IMO... I prefer not to give much importance to where a person is born, his/her mother tounge, colour, caste, creed etc etc... noone has any control on these & I wonder Y ppl give so much importance to things on which we have absolutely no control!!!...

[podalangai]

A lot of scientists say that a language fundamentally shapes how we see the world. In other words, the language(s) we speak contribute to giving us the world view we have. So it is definitely more than a means of communication. It is a part of who we are.


so i believe you guys know that i want real-life purposes as in how it helps human beings survive other than forms of communication.

If by "real life purposes" you mean only practical things then fine, language is only useful for communication. But if you are interested in looking at things like culture, then language plays a very significant role in creating and preserving culture. :)

[Hulkster]

For me language is more than just a means of communication... When I learn a new language I enjoy the songs in that language, get to read the books in original language, learn more from talking to people in their language and learning more :)

Human preference Anoushka akka...even i have the same rpeference when someone talks to me in chaste tamil...but problem is when you put it down in reality most of these come under forms of communication....:D

PS: Hows your baby going?...all fine i hope :P

[Hulkster]

A lot of scientists say that a language fundamentally shapes how we see the world. In other words, the language(s) we speak contribute to giving us the world view we have. So it is definitely more than a means of communication. It is a part of who we are.


so i believe you guys know that i want real-life purposes as in how it helps human beings survive other than forms of communication.

If by "real life purposes" you mean only practical things then fine, language is only useful for communication. But if you are interested in looking at things like culture, then language plays a very significant role in creating and preserving culture. :)

I believe in practical things and i am not really interested in culture..to be abit more straightforward..i do not support theories that may act as dividers in the human race and culture,religion,race are some of them and especially if they are misused to cause discomfort/harm to others(we got to remember that all of these dividers are manmade)...i thought of adding language but without a basic common language it will be tough for humans to communicate with each other. Nice point podalangai sir :thumbsup:

[Hulkster]

Podalangai sir another point to note...perhaps language may have another significance like scientists say...it may lead to know who we are...in other words what would have been the one and only original language of human beings before so many languages came into existence..is it pictorial language seen in caves or was there a verbal form of communication used then which might have been adapted into the countless number of languages we see today? :?

[Hulkster]

Basically it would be interesting and nice if we just kept our wide range of cultures and languages as a form of knowledge and interest but problem is people use it as a form of separating them from others and also force/persuade their offspring and those following a similar culture/language to learn that as well...i do not appreciate this one bit and i firmly believe in individual rights..people should have their preference of what to learn and what to follow provided the culture they want to learn are not against human rights. :D

[Roshan]

Sorry for the digression - this is a test post. I am unable to post anything as I am getting some error messages, and finally ending up with multiple posts :cry:

[Lambretta]

i dunt mind even if a tamil person talked to me in english..and when you look at it logically its only purpose is communication..
Hmm....while I agree w/ most of wat u say, I personally feel kinda uncomfy if a Tamizh person began talking to me in English if I first talked to/asked him sumthing in Tamizh, cos I'd either feel tat he/she thinks I cant speak Tamizh properly (& I've got a lot of tat from many native (viz. TN-based) Tamil ppl. wich gives me sum embarassment/a kinda inferiority complex :x :oops:) or tat he/she is trying to prove themselves very 'educated' & find it below dig to talk even in their own language....unless ABS. MANDATORY/NECESSARY to talk in English......like for eg. if sum third person who doesnt know tamizh is present & we want to make sure they understand wat we r saying & dont feel 'left out' or confused in our presence....or if in situation where English was formally required....

[Anoushka]

For me language is more than just a means of communication... When I learn a new language I enjoy the songs in that language, get to read the books in original language, learn more from talking to people in their language and learning more :)

Human preference Anoushka akka...even i have the same rpeference when someone talks to me in chaste tamil...but problem is when you put it down in reality most of these come under forms of communication....:D

PS: Hows your baby going?...all fine i hope :P

maybe you are right hulk... I took communication as something to do between two or more people...

On Saturday we saw a group doing "Gidda" a punjabi dance... the music was lovely, the dance was great, but I thought I would have really enjoyed it much better if I could get the meaning of the lyrics, as it sounded really naughty! :)

There are times when I am watching a movie or having a conversation with someone and there is a person in that room who cannot understand the language and I am trying to translate... sometimes I feel the whole punch line is lost when I translate. There are certain things that sound right only in their original language.

PS: baby is doing fine hulk :)

[Rohit]

Normally, most people hold language as nothing more than just a medium of communication, which is true, only when it comes to the use of a language. But such perception is absolutely false when it comes to grasp the exact developmental and evolutionary course of the language. The notion, that language is nothing more than just a medium of communication, completely falls over when one closely examines the whole evolutionary process involved in the development of a language.

In nutshell, language reflects the world-view of people; and therefore, it necessarily reflects "The way of thinking" and "The way of doing things" of people, which is nothing but culture.

:)

[Shakthiprabha.]

Rohit,

Considering culture, evolution and development process of any species,

Nobody who says language is a medium of communication DENIES this fact here.

None of us who says language a medium of communication has LESS love for our language or FEEL LESS AT HOME when orating in our language.

The topic I understood here is, WHEN it comes to LOVE / PASSION vs UTTER DEVOTION to one's language.

Does someone GO a step further to ONLY GLORIFY his or her own language and fail to taste or perceive or understand the beauty of other language?

Does ur emotional LOVE FOR UR LANGUAGE overpowers practical life ahead?

Then ur own language BECOMES a barrier TO UNDERSTAND fellow beings and u STAND SEGREGATED.

Thats what I understand :)

[NOV]

You understand wrong. :)

Lovers of one language do not automatically become enemies of others. We don't want to force our language on you and expect the same courtesy from others too.

[Wibha]

For me language is more than just a means of communication... When I learn a new language I enjoy the songs in that language, get to read the books in original language, learn more from talking to people in their language and learning more :)


:yes: :exactly: when i learn a new language i make sure i learn its culture and history and why the words came from and etc......its always fun to learn a language.and its not just a medium of communication

[Hulkster]

Its good to know that people here just love the language as it is...but as long as it is not enforced or become a object of misunderstood devotion...its still good...but the way people treat it so much more than its actual purpose and try to force others to do it is very shocking to say the least..which is why i started this topic to let people know that in reality beyond its actual purpose its has very little effect in the world(identity/culture is not accounted as they themselves are not compulsory for human's survival unless your preference lies with wanting to be "identified" differently). Cheers people :D :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

You understand wrong. :)

Lovers of one language do not automatically become enemies of others. We don't want to force our language on you and expect the same courtesy from others too.

So does love for ur language, OVERPOWER everything else in you, that it becomes a BARRIER?

It does not right.?

Then its A MEDIUM of communication.

YOU KNOW to differentiate, where to stop and become practical!

Thats all there is to it :?

medium of communcaiton = LOVE + practicality
barrier = love + devotion + fanatism.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Its good to know that people here just love the language as it is...but as long as it is not enforced or become a object of misunderstood devotion...its still good...but the way people treat it so much more than its actual purpose and try to force others to do it is very shocking to say the least..which is why i started this topic to let people know that in reality beyond its actual purpose its has very little effect in the world(identity/culture is not accounted as they themselves are not compulsory for human's survival unless your preference lies with wanting to be "identified" differently). Cheers people :D :thumbsup:

rightly put

[dev]

You understand wrong. :)

Lovers of one language do not automatically become enemies of others. We don't want to force our language on you and expect the same courtesy from others too.

Not all are like tht, NOV... I have had enough experience of ppl irritating me with discussion as to which language is superior... :banghead: I am not against healthy discussions on the history of a language etc,anyways...

"None of us who says language a medium of communication has LESS love for our language or FEEL LESS AT HOME when orating in our language.

The topic I understood here is, WHEN it comes to LOVE / PASSION vs UTTER DEVOTION to one's language.

Does someone GO a step further to ONLY GLORIFY his or her own language and fail to taste or perceive or understand the beauty of other language? "

True... this is what my understanding on this topic is... Every language has its own charm... ones love/devotion to one's language shouldn't mask him/her from seeing/understanding the beauty of the other language...

[NOV]

Then its A MEDIUM of communication.
nope.

Why do you feel insulted if someone insults your language? I do.
If you don't, that doesn't make me an extremist. :roll:

[Hulkster]

Then its A MEDIUM of communication.
nope.

Why do you feel insulted if someone insults your language? I do.
If you don't, that doesn't make me an extremist. :roll:

The answer is there...you feel that it belongs to you when your actually just using it as forms of communication..when you start learning loads of languages you will realise they dunt actually belong to you..unless you have been brain-fed with the mentality of it being "yours" :D

[NOV]

i can have a 100 people who I call amma, but my mother is mine. always. :roll:

[Hulkster]

Yes but thats a human being..whom we share relationships with...what i mean here is something that is non-physical...something that was created by some person long time back and now we are using it as a form of communication..since language is so general..even if we use it cannot be ours...it will just be classified as a something we know...like we all know science..but its not ours but rather something we know :D

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Tamizh-a pathi Thappa Tamizhan-ta thaan pesalam alladhu Tamizhaney Thamizha pathi thappa pesuvaan. Tamizh-la pesuradhu periya paavam-nu nenaikidhu namma samugam. Idhey matha mozhi kaarangala konjam paarunga?!

Tamizh Tamizh-nu pesuna theevaravadhi maadhri paakura orey ooru namma ooru thaan :sigh2:

[Hulkster]

Tamizh-a pathi thappi Tamizhan-ta thaan pesalam alladhu Tamizhaney Thamizha pathi thappa pesuvaan. Tamizh-la pesuradhu periya paavam-nu nenaikidhu namma samugam. Idhey matha mozhi kaarangala konjam paarunga?!

Tamizh Tamizh-nu pesuna theevaravadhi maadhri paakura orey ooru namma ooru thaan :sigh2:

I understand what you mean...even i get angry when someone does not speak tamil to me(assuming i only know tamil) when he/she knows tamil but if i know english and he/she knows english and we communicate..whats wrong?...as i said attachment to languages is not wrong..but do not mistake it to be your or part of your life...if not your making it seem "larger than life" beyond its actual purpose. Talking bad or insulting a particular language should be avoided but that does not mean as punishment the person must be forced to learn...we have to understand we dunt live in a world of 6 billion individuals..while some will love some will not...basic understanding :D

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Tamizh naatula oru Tamizhan, Tamizh padikanum-nu solradhu thappa?

[NOV]

Tamizh-a pathi Thappa Tamizhan-ta thaan pesalam alladhu Tamizhaney Thamizha pathi thappa pesuvaan. Tamizh-la pesuradhu periya paavam-nu nenaikidhu namma samugam. Idhey matha mozhi kaarangala konjam paarunga?!

Tamizh Tamizh-nu pesuna theevaravadhi maadhri paakura orey ooru namma ooru thaan :sigh2::clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[NOV]

Tamizh naatula oru Tamizhan, Tamizh padikanum-nu solradhu thappa?thappu thaan. Enaa adhu thamizh aachE!

all over the world prominence is given to native languages. in malaysia you can't pass exams or get a decent job without knowledge of malay.

most western countries impose english as a condiction for citizenship.

[Hulkster]

Tamizh naatula oru Tamizhan, Tamizh padikanum-nu solradhu thappa?

Tamizh naatil orutharei thamizh padikka solluruthu thappu ellei...anaal avarai varpurti padikka veikurudhu tappu...muthalil nammellam manithargal..appo thaan tamilargal,english-kaaragal etc. :D

[crazy]

Tamizh naatula oru Tamizhan, Tamizh padikanum-nu solradhu thappa?

Tamizh naatil orutharei thamizh padikka solluruthu thappu ellei...anaal avarai varpurti padikka veikurudhu tappu...muthalil nammellam manithargal..appo thaan tamilargal,english-kaaragal etc. :D

endha naadila thaan oruthana varpuruthi padikka vaikkala?
norway'la kooda thaan kattaayama norwegian padichu aahanum.
norwegians kitta poi sollren enakku norwegian pidikkala........enakku thamizh kattru thaanu........."podi naatta vittunu" thaan bathil varum.

namma naadila namma mozhi padi'nu sollaama anniya naadila poi thamizh padi'nu solla/ varpurutha mudiyum?!

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Hulks,

Ippo tamizh naatula yaarayum varpuruthi thamizh padikka vaikala.

Thaaimozhi-yana thamizh mozhi 'Second Language' ingga theriyuma? Indha maadhri kodumai ingga mattum thaan nadakkum!!

Adhu yen 2 Hindhi pesuravanga paatha Hindhi-la pesuraanga, 2 Telegu pesuravanga paatha Telegu pesuraanga aana 2 Tamizh pesuravanga paatha mattum English-la peter viduraanga?!!

Engga irrundhu vandhathu indha mogam? Edhanala Tamizh maadhri oru azhagana mozhiya pesuradha oru kutrama paakuraanga? Tamizh naata vida Ilangai-la thamizh romba suthama pesuraanga!

Evvalo azhagana vaarthai "Amma\Appa" adha vittutu "Mummy\Daddy"-nu koopdradhu azhaga?! Thaai mozhiya vida matra mozhi perusu solravan avvunga oorula irrukurathuke thagudhi illadhavan enbadhu en karuthu!

[crazy]

Hulks,

Ippo tamizh naatula yaarayum varpuruthi thamizh padikka vaikala.

Thaaimozhi-yana thamizh mozhi 'Second Language' ingga theriyuma? Indha maadhri kodumai ingga mattum thaan nadakkum!!

Adhu yen 2 Hindhi pesuravanga paatha Hindhi-la pesuraanga, 2 Telegu pesuravanga paatha Telegu pesuraanga aana 2 Tamizh pesuravanga paatha mattum English-la peter viduraanga?!!

Engga irrundhu vandhathu indha mogam? Edhanala Tamizh maadhri oru azhagana mozhiya pesuradha oru kutrama paakuraanga? Tamizh naata vida Ilangai-la thamizh romba suthama pesuraanga!

Evvalo azhagana vaarthai "Amma\Appa" adha vittutu "Mummy\Daddy"-nu koopdradhu azhaga?! Thaai mozhiya vida matra mozhi perusu solravan avvunga oorula irrukurathuke thagudhi illadhavan enbadhu en karuthu!

:exactly: :clap:

[Hulkster]

SS your showing attachment to a language..you can like a language alot...but that does not mean the person who knows the same language must speak it to you..its showing ignorance for another human being's rights...there is no rule that if there are two hindi speaking people..they should only converse in hindi...what is more important is that they can understand each other and communicate and as long as they can do that choice of language is irrelevant. Which rule in this world says if two people mother tongue are the same they must speak only in that language...thats where you make the mistake..because of your attachment/devotion to the language...you almost decided that someone who knows the same language but prefers another one is not worthy. So even if ghandi did not like hindi but preferred english he is not worthy? Be practical rather than patriotic..if not it would create problems the same way religion,race,culture has been used in the name of identity.


you just said that if a person likes another language more than his/her mother tongue he/she has no presence in that place...yet again you failed to comprehend that we are all individuals with our own likes and dislikes...trying to know a language of that place for communication may be necessary but it must not be forced upon the person...ignoring a human life for the sake of something which has no purpose other than forms of communication is highly despicable..this is the separation barrier we do not want to see.

[Sanguine Sridhar]

As far as language I am patriotic and not practical :)

Right time to :wave: from this thread

[Raghu]

Language is JUST a COMMUNICATION medium, BUT IGNORANCE creates a BARRIER for it

[joe]

Language is JUST a COMMUNICATION medium

But,There is a difference between a language and mother tounge ,atleast for me :evil:

[NOV]

ok, let's create a poll then to determine this. :D

[Raghu]

Language is JUST a COMMUNICATION medium

But,There is a difference between a language and mother tounge ,atleast for me :evil:

Ellam Mayai Joe anNe :wink: :D

[joe]

ok, let's create a poll then to determine this. :D

No..I know who are majority :evil: Hmm ...

[NOV]

actually it doesnt matter who the majority is Joe. what matters is how you feel abt it.

[joe]

actually it doesnt matter who the majority is Joe. what matters is how you feel abt it.

Sorry Nov,
I can't be funny in this matter ..Moreover ,here the topic is just 'Language' ,but the discussion here is about 'Mother language' ,which are very much different .English is a Language for me ,But Thamizh is not just another language for me ,It is my mother tounge ,my identity ,my close companion in my day to day life ,very important factor in moulding my personality.

[podalangai]

Thaaimozhi-yana thamizh mozhi 'Second Language' ingga theriyuma? Indha maadhri kodumai ingga mattum thaan nadakkum!!

தமிழ் மொழி வரலாற்றில் இது ஒன்றும் புதியது இல்லை. 14ம் நூற்றாண்டில் சோழ பாண்டிய அரசு வீழ்ச்சியுடன் தொடங்கிய நிலமை இது. அக்காலத்திலிருந்து இந்நாள் வரை தமிழகத்தின் "உயர்ந்தோர் குழாம்" பிறர் மொழியை தொழுகுதேத்தி தமிழை இகழ்ந்துக்கொண்டே வந்திருக்கிறார்கள். அக்காலத்தில் சமக்கிரதம் கைப்பற்ற பதவியேதான் ஆங்கிலம் இப்போ நிரப்புகிறது.

ஆனால் இவர் பகட்டர்களை மறந்துவிடுங்கள். புறக்கணிங்கள். ஆவரின் நடத்தை அவரது கொடுமை, நமது அல்ல. தமிழ் வளர்ச்சியுறுகிறது, மலர்ச்சியுறுகிறது! நீதிமன்றஙளில் தமிழே செயல் மொழி ஆகப்போகிறது. இன்னும் சில ஆண்டுகளில் தமிழ் தமிழகத்தின் அரசுமொழியாவும் ஆகிவிடும்.

மணிப்பிரவாள மோகம் திர்ந்தபோன்றவே இந்த ஆங்கில மோகமும் தீரும்! :)

[NOV]

I can't be funny in this matter ...Exactly. thats what I said Joe.
what anyone from a "high" pedestal is going to say, is NOT going to change our views.

udal mannukku uyir thamizhukku

[Designer]

ok, let's create a poll then to determine this. :D

The poll must be modified so as to differentiate between just any lanugage and one's Mother tongue !

[Rohit]

Yes Shakthiprabha, I do agree with most part of your post. However,


Does ur emotional LOVE FOR UR LANGUAGE overpowers practical life ahead?

Then ur own language BECOMES a barrier TO UNDERSTAND fellow beings and u STAND SEGREGATED.
For most Indians, the emotional love for their language(s) springs from the conflicting emotional fear of losing the cultural aspect embedded in their language(s), while the practical aspect, as portrayed here by most, springs from the emotional fear of being segregated from the rest of the world.

When the two choices are made based on such emotional forces, the language begins to loose its cognitive dimensions; and it is precisely this situation that intensifies one's former emotions. :)

[Jabroni]

SS your showing attachment to a language..you can like a language alot...but that does not mean the person who knows the same language must speak it to you..its showing ignorance for another human being's rights...there is no rule that if there are two hindi speaking people..they should only converse in hindi...what is more important is that they can understand each other and communicate and as long as they can do that choice of language is irrelevant. Which rule in this world says if two people mother tongue are the same they must speak only in that language...thats where you make the mistake..because of your attachment/devotion to the language...you almost decided that someone who knows the same language but prefers another one is not worthy. So even if ghandi did not like hindi but preferred english he is not worthy? Be practical rather than patriotic..if not it would create problems the same way religion,race,culture has been used in the name of identity.


you just said that if a person likes another language more than his/her mother tongue he/she has no presence in that place...yet again you failed to comprehend that we are all individuals with our own likes and dislikes...trying to know a language of that place for communication may be necessary but it must not be forced upon the person...ignoring a human life for the sake of something which has no purpose other than forms of communication is highly despicable..this is the separation barrier we do not want to see.

imagine the situation

if your principal(he's neither dumb nor deaf) calls you into his office and starts to mime with gestures, instead of talking to you in a language, how will you react to him? forget the reaction, what'll you feel inside you?

forget your rights and lefts and give a honest answer

[Wibha]

Tamizh-a pathi Thappa Tamizhan-ta thaan pesalam alladhu Tamizhaney Thamizha pathi thappa pesuvaan. Tamizh-la pesuradhu periya paavam-nu nenaikidhu namma samugam. Idhey matha mozhi kaarangala konjam paarunga?!

Tamizh Tamizh-nu pesuna theevaravadhi maadhri paakura orey ooru namma ooru thaan :sigh2:

wowwwwwww.......... :clap:

[Hulkster]

SS your showing attachment to a language..you can like a language alot...but that does not mean the person who knows the same language must speak it to you..its showing ignorance for another human being's rights...there is no rule that if there are two hindi speaking people..they should only converse in hindi...what is more important is that they can understand each other and communicate and as long as they can do that choice of language is irrelevant. Which rule in this world says if two people mother tongue are the same they must speak only in that language...thats where you make the mistake..because of your attachment/devotion to the language...you almost decided that someone who knows the same language but prefers another one is not worthy. So even if ghandi did not like hindi but preferred english he is not worthy? Be practical rather than patriotic..if not it would create problems the same way religion,race,culture has been used in the name of identity.


you just said that if a person likes another language more than his/her mother tongue he/she has no presence in that place...yet again you failed to comprehend that we are all individuals with our own likes and dislikes...trying to know a language of that place for communication may be necessary but it must not be forced upon the person...ignoring a human life for the sake of something which has no purpose other than forms of communication is highly despicable..this is the separation barrier we do not want to see.

imagine the situation

if your principal(he's neither dumb nor deaf) calls you into his office and starts to mime with gestures, instead of talking to you in a language, how will you react to him? forget the reaction, what'll you feel inside you?

forget your rights and lefts and give a honest answer

Jabroni sir you used the wrong example...i am just highlighting that languages must not be used as a basis for fanatism and extreme devotion and that no matter how you see or prefer it..it is in reality a form of communication.

What your talking about is totally different...of course if we are talking with the physically challenged we should try to learn sign language but what does it have to do with language fanatism ? :huh:

[Hulkster]

Guys the main language that we know or we are supposed to be "part" of due to the place we live in or parental preferences is usually termed as the mother toungue..but nowhere does it mean it must live by you always..the problem is we tend to differentiate and end up supporting it abit too passionately..i am still okay with the mother tongue being used but for heaven's sake dunt enforce it on other human beings even if their main language is also supposed to be that..we have to remember not all human beings have the same preferences as us.

Another thing to ask is if mother tongue is so dear to us..why does GOD create human beings with no knowledge of their mother tongue but all of them are born the same way with "mazhalei" mozhi. Its a point to ponder guys :exactly:

[Designer]

Tamizh-a pathi Thappa Tamizhan-ta thaan pesalam alladhu Tamizhaney Thamizha pathi thappa pesuvaan. Tamizh-la pesuradhu periya paavam-nu nenaikidhu namma samugam. Idhey matha mozhi kaarangala konjam paarunga?!

Tamizh Tamizh-nu pesuna theevaravadhi maadhri paakura orey ooru namma ooru thaan :sigh2:

wowwwwwww.......... :clap:

Becks : :exactly:

Hulkster : Its nothing 'wrong' to have attachment for one's mother tongue. We are not forcing persons of other states to compulsarily speak only in Tamil when they visit Chennai. Whichever language they speak to us, we try to reply in that language if we know it; or we give a reply in English. Whereas if you go to North India and try to ask something in English, very few people will answer you even people whom you can gauge as knowing English. You are forced to learn Hindi even to ask for simple directions. All the North Indians are proud of their respective mother tongues (eg : Hindi, Punjabi, Haryanavi, Sindhi, Bhojpuri, Urdu, etc). But where is our pride for the Tamil language? I feel proud of my mother tongue, Tamil - a language much richer and older than Devanagri script of the North Indians. And also that inspite of not being formally educated in Tamil, I have managed to learn something of the language by myself.

In North India, sometimes when you are speaking to your relatives or friends in Tamil in public, the North Indian makes fun of you. English is even worse - you are labled an 'Angrez' ('Englishkaran') but referred in North India with irritation and not in praise. (Btw its an altogether different matter that most North Indians copy the Englishman's way of living!). They criticise Tamil pronounciations just because they don't have the patience or broadmindedness to learn another lanugage, like a Tamilan has. They compare Tamil fonts with 'Jilebis' whereas we don't compare a Haryanvi script with 'Murukku' etc. We don't say that Bhojpuri looks like someone cut Hindi script with a grass cutter. We don't say that Punjabi fonts look as if someone ran a lawnmower through them. We don't say all that do we?!

Moreover, we Tamilians never force anyone to learn Tamil or English etc, just to ask simple directions to the Railway station.

[Hulkster]

Totally depends on the individual Ramky sir...for me i dunt wish to classify myself as tamilan or indian..i wish to be recognised as a human being..as simple as that...which is why i dunt have any attachments to languages or stuff..and practically/realistically this should be the way although it is not...Let us not use others as a example..they too from birth might have been fed with the theory that their mother tongue is part of them..thus explaining their pride...if they had been brought up neutrally and tell them to learn any language they desire..you wunt be able to see any pride unless they love the language alot again depending on their character and preferences.

[Designer]

Totally depends on the individual Ramky sir...for me i dunt wish to classify myself as tamilan or indian..i wish to be recognised as a human being..as simple as that...which is why i dunt have any attachments to languages or stuff..and practically/realistically this should be the way although it is not...Let us not use others as a example..they too from birth might have been fed with the theory that their mother tongue is part of them..thus explaining their pride...if they had been brought up neutrally and tell them to learn any language they desire..you wunt be able to see any pride unless they love the language alot again depending on their character and preferences.

Hulk : I am aware of the historical reasons for the North Indians' hatred for English and pride for their mother tongue. What I am saying is that, we should also have pride in our mother tongue. However one need not be compelled to have pride in it - that depends on each individual's conditioning, interests etc. But nothing wrong at all in having attachment for one's mother tongue.

Reg not having attachments to 'stuff etc...' - if you are referring to having attachments with worldly things, material things, then that ought to be discussed in Spiritual thread IMO !

[Hulkster]

Let us not delve into spiritual..this is just basic attachment as love for something that has been magnified beyond its purpose...same here ramky sir..i have mentioned that i am fine with having love for languages especially mother tongue..but i am appalled that human lives can be ignored just for the sake of a mother tongue..have pride but dunt enforce it thats my view...as long as this remains i am fine with it as well...btw i have already explained this for the past ten points..im getting repititive :P

[joe]

inspite of not being formally educated in Tamil, I have managed to learn something of the language by myself.


:clap: I salute you designer :thumbsup:

[Designer]

Let us not delve into spiritual..this is just basic attachment as love for something that has been magnified beyond its purpose...same here ramky sir..i have mentioned that i am fine with having love for languages especially mother tongue..but i am appalled that human lives can be ignored just for the sake of a mother tongue..have pride but dunt enforce it thats my view...as long as this remains i am fine with it as well...btw i have already explained this for the past ten points..im getting repititive :P

Hulk : I sort of agree with you on one aspect - that Extremities in any sphere of activity or thought, is bad for any individual, and by extension, to society as a whole. That being so, even if some person(s) are passionate about something, they should not force it upon another person.

I dont think Tamil is being forced in Tamil Nadu on anyone. So I will read the posts in this thread once again and then post my reply on that particular mention in your recent post.

( Btw Hulk : 'Sir' enRu koopida vEndaam, 'Ramky' is enough :) )

[Designer]

inspite of not being formally educated in Tamil, I have managed to learn something of the language by myself.


:clap: I salute you designer :thumbsup:

Thnx Joe :)

[Shakthiprabha.]

Looks like hulk and me are standing alone in the poll :lol: :D

Thanks hulk... else I am so used to standing alone in most opinions.. that I hardly find companions sometime :D

cheers.

time to move away from this thread :wave:

[Designer]

SP : I had asked for one more option to be included - 'I am passionate about my Mother Tongue' .

But since that was not done, I voted for the language option anyway :)

[Lambretta]

Reg not having attachments to 'stuff etc...' - if you are referring to having attachments with worldly things, material things, then that ought to be discussed in Spiritual thread IMO !
:clap: Good point kaka! :D

[crazy]

...for me i dunt wish to classify myself as tamilan or indian..i wish to be recognised as a human being.

:roll: Even if we(or others) recognize you as a human being or not, YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING, hulk!

whatever, Hulk you r such a good "human being", unfortunately I don't fit into your category of Good human being :( , i guess!
I dont understand what you are expecting as an answer trough this tread!
But ........... :notworthy: :thumbsup:

I think its time for leaving this tread, just as Sp akka, but with an different opinion/ thought :wave:

My language is not just a medium of communication, but its my identity and much more than that! :)

[podalangai]

Looks like hulk and me are standing alone in the poll :lol: :D

SP, honestly, if language is nothing more than a medium of communication, why were you upset about the banning of Tamil channels in Bangalore? Since Tamil is nothing more than just another medium of communication, it shouldn't make any difference what language you watch programmes in, should it? And there should be no problem abandoning Tamil altogether and switching to Kannada only either, should there? One medium of communication is as good as another and in Bangalore not speaking Tamil is a definite advantage.

I hope this doesn't sound offensive - it isn't intended to be. It is a genuine question. Why should we care at all about our mother tongue if it's just another means of communication, as you and Hulkster say? Isn't the logical corollary that we should give it up as soon as something else becomes more convenient?

[Lambretta]

In North India, sometimes when you are speaking to your relatives or friends in Tamil in public, the North Indian makes fun of you.
Uh, Ramky, I dont disagree w/ u.........altho wud also say this attitude doesnt exist only in the north.....I've heard/seen this even among telugus towards tamils.....my mom always insist tat we shudnt talk among ourselves in tamil in public here in wich situation she always starts talking to me in english, saying tat many ppl. in AP dont like tamilians or their language & refer to us as 'Aravu vaaLLu' etc....
And then I'd recently seen 'Autograph' (on TV, tats y recently! :P), where the hero is a Tamil college student living in Kerala & the heroine (Gopika) doesnt understand wen he tells her even in English tat he doesnt know Malyalam (sounds a bit unrealistic considering tat Kerala is known for highest passable English fluency :? ) & then all the guys in college make fun of him/his native state (for wich he gets pissed off & throws them off the boat & so on!).....nothing to criticize ppl. of said state, but jus saying tat the feeling of 'my vs. other state' nativity cud cross even sub-regional boundaries, not jus regional alone....

[podalangai]

Hulkster,

Idhu inge oru final comment, appiram naanum thread-ai vittu kilambaren.

Tamils are a minority in India, and that is something we are quite conscious of. There is a history of our language being considered less "worthy" than other languages as I tried to explain in my Tamil posting. For many centuries, Sanskrit was considered the "polished" language and the mark of education, and then came the push for Hindi. Even today, Tamil is legally at a much lower status than Hindi. If any of the Hindi-speaking states want to make Hindi the official language of the courts, then they have a legal right to do so and nobody can stop them. But Tamil Nadu does not have the right to make Tamil the official language of courts in TN, and when we try to do so, so many obstacles have been placed in our path and the Central Government uses one excuse after another to withhold consent. This is just one example.

You remember the discussion about language and culture we had some pages back. Tamil culture is nothing without the Tamil language. Our language is the central portion of Tamil culture, and losing the language means we lose most of what makes us Tamils. Not everyone thinks culture has any value, but for those of us who do, this is a frightening prospect, particularly when we see what has happened to our brothers across the Palk Straits.

That is why we have this "devotion" to Tamil. It comes from a strong feeling that, as a small group at the southern tip of a large country, our culture is not secure unless we take active steps to secure it. That is why we say "udal mannukku, uyir tamizhukku" and do the things we do for Tamil. I think it is wrong to view this as negative. Do you think the world would be a better place if Tamil culture ceased to be a living tradition, and disappeared from the face of the earth, save as a memory in old books?

[NOV]

what a swansong! :clap:

purinjavangalukku solla thEvai illai
puriyathavangalukku solliyum payan illai.

me too :wave:

[Hulkster]

I got the point podalangai sir...i understand the pride and love for culture..even i am interested with the way humans have developed and lived just from analysing these cultures..in fact i would love to learn them and any language..its just fun to interact with human beings with what they know but what i dislike strongly is the strong impression of "identity" being used to separate human beings...we all should participate in cultural stuff in a fun way but not enforced or for those who dunt belong to the same "group" be ignored just because they dunt prefer that culture...we are human beings first...then only are we tamilans and all that.

In fact the cultures that are seen all around the world might have been adapted from a culture that homo sapiens might have been following first...perhaps due to continental/area segregation and human beings moving into different areas their cultures changed considerably due to the climates,atmosphere and the surivival styles of that place. If we were to use identity as a reason then we can trace back all cultures to the original culture that homo sapiens used and then we can really establish our identity. We can use identity if we are interacting with other animals but identity amongst ourselves when all of us belong to same scientific and practical classification which is homo sapiens is abit weird :? I think you can see from my views that i am totally practical..which is why the deep contradictions in my views compared to yours about culture and stuff. :D

Crazy regardless of what we believe and think..all of us are human beings. There's no such thing as good human being as all of us have done wrongs and mistakes...we can only be classified as human beings with different characters..so i am as equal as you are..even if you hate what i do your still a human being as equal to me nevertheless :P :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

Looks like hulk and me are standing alone in the poll :lol: :D

SP, honestly, if language is nothing more than a medium of communication, why were you upset about the banning of Tamil channels in Bangalore? Since Tamil is nothing more than just another medium of communication, it shouldn't make any difference what language you watch programmes in, should it? And there should be no problem abandoning Tamil altogether and switching to Kannada only either, should there? One medium of communication is as good as another and in Bangalore not speaking Tamil is a definite advantage.

I hope this doesn't sound offensive - it isn't intended to be. It is a genuine question. Why should we care at all about our mother tongue if it's just another means of communication, as you and Hulkster say? Isn't the logical corollary that we should give it up as soon as something else becomes more convenient?

I am tired of debates (wanna take a break for a week.. :cry2:)

anyway podalangai.

As Ive said earlier (I REMMEBER HULK, AND OTHERS WITH similar views saying too)

Just because a person says language is a medium of COMMUNICATION it does not mean he or she does not LOVE a language OR IS IN NO WAY LESSER than any other person's LOVE for the language.

The difference is WHETHER WE IDENTIFY OURSELVES as HUMAN BEINGS first anD LATER with language identity?

The difference is IN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND the fine clear line between LOVE and SOMETHING MORE THAN LOVE, lets say PASSION? (if thats the right word!)

When tamil channels were not broadcasted, I WAS LESS WORRIED about the not watching tv part(as I do not watch much) . Television is an ENTERTAINMENT media and I dont mind sticking to english or hindi OR WHAT IF I LIVE IN SWITZERLAND? I need to ADJUST with what I have there.

IF u had read my post carefully, you would have understood that

"TREATING A SECT OF HUMAN BEING (here example was tamil, it can be anyone else too) AS DIFFERENT from others, and SNATCHING THEIR RIGHT WAS what is condemnable.

Here are SOME OF QUOTES from my basic post of cauvery issue.


No! Not just because of blocking of channels or blocking of films being screened, but because of the WAY WE ARE BEING segregated and looked down upon and treated as MINORITIES.

This is indirectly saying... "THIS IS MY PLACE, I rule, U LISTEN"

WE ARE HURT.


Is this not INTERFERING IN BASIC RIGHTS of a citizen?

Is this a mature way of dealing or protesting a dispute?

Is it not as childish as a 3 year old snatching the other 3 year old's toy
because of irritation?

When we are with ppl of karnataka, is this the way we receive recognition of fellowship?

Most of us WERE WITH THOSE PPL, and did not differentiate OURSELVES as tamilianS!

We were hurt ONLY WHEN THEY DIFFERENTIATED US and that too in the stand of BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS.

Hope this clarifies WHERE PPL who think language as 'JSUT A MEDIUM OF COMMUNICATION' stand.

:wave:

My throat is dry and parched :lol: and do not wanna step in for more arguments for sometime in any thread :cry2:

[kb]

language is surely a barrier..

in abroad.. they differentiate mostly by tamil,telugu and hindi..
in a group only if u know that language u will feel comfortable :?