MARRIAGE ...Aspects & PROBLEMS.!

[Sarna]

hamid , just read the below line

தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் கொழுநன் தொழுதெழுவாள்

கொழுநன் - means kanavan'nu arththamaa ?

amaam

சான்று ?சரவணா, எப்படி ஒரு கொடி ஒரு கழியை (பழந்தமிழில் கொழி) பிடிது படறுமோ, அது போல் ஒரு கொடி போன்ற மனைவி தனது வாழ்கையை கழியாகிய கனவனுடன் சேர்ந்து இல்லறம் நடத்துவாள். ( எப்பவோ, மு. வரதராசனார் எழுதிய பொருளுரையில் படித்த ஞாபகம்)

hmmm ....

[sivank]

just for fun ....maybe ippadi kooda irukkalaam....
அந்த காலத்துல பெண்கள அடிமைகளா நடத்துனாங்க ஆண்கள்..... அதனால ஆண்கள கொழுப்பெடுத்தவர்கள் அல்லது கொழுப்புள்ளவர்கள்'னு சொல்ல நெனச்சி கொழு'னு சொல்லியிருக்கலாம்..... அதுக்கு அடுத்து நன்'னு ஒரு சொல் போட்டு.... நல்லா கொழுப்பெடுத்தவங்க :rotfl:எப்படி வேணும்னாலும் அர்த்தம் எடுத்துக்கலாம் தப்பில்ல. ஆனா, கொழுநன்ன மட்டும் கொழுந்தன்னு அத்தம் பண்ணிக்காதீங்க. அப்புறம் விவகாரமா போயிறும்

[Sarna]

just for fun ....maybe ippadi kooda irukkalaam....
அந்த காலத்துல பெண்கள அடிமைகளா நடத்துனாங்க ஆண்கள்..... அதனால ஆண்கள கொழுப்பெடுத்தவர்கள் அல்லது கொழுப்புள்ளவர்கள்'னு சொல்ல நெனச்சி கொழு'னு சொல்லியிருக்கலாம்..... அதுக்கு அடுத்து நன்'னு ஒரு சொல் போட்டு.... நல்லா கொழுப்பெடுத்தவங்க :rotfl:எப்படி வேணும்னாலும் அர்த்தம் எடுத்துக்கலாம் தப்பில்ல. ஆனா, கொழுநன்ன மட்டும் கொழுந்தன்னு அத்தம் பண்ணிக்காதீங்க. அப்புறம் விவகாரமா போயிறும்

:lol:

கொழுநற் றொழுதெழுவாள் :) so prachchana illa :)

[pavalamani pragasam]

கருணாநிதி :கணவன் வாக்கினைக் கடவுள் வாக்கினை விட மேலானதாகக் கருதி அவனையே தொழுதிடும் மனைவி பெய் என ஆணையிட்டவுடன் அஞ்சி நடுங்கிப் பெய்கின்ற மழையைப் போலத் தன்னை அடிமையாக எண்ணிக் கொள்பவளாவாள்.

I have read it before but it is impressive :clap:

Brilliant work by MK. One has to give it to him.

The two parts of the kuRaL are independent and the joining comes from our reading.

Traditional reading

தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் தொழுதெழுவாள் (சொன்னால்)
பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை

MK's reading
தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் தொழுதெழுவாள் (எப்படிப்பட்டவள் என்றால்)
பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை (போன்றவள்)

Sharp wit !

:omg:
:shock:
Classic example of அனர்த்தம்!
பெய்யென்றால் பெய்துவிடுமாக்கும் மழை அடிமை போல? :roll:

[pavalamani pragasam]

just for fun ....maybe ippadi kooda irukkalaam....
அந்த காலத்துல பெண்கள அடிமைகளா நடத்துனாங்க ஆண்கள்..... அதனால ஆண்கள கொழுப்பெடுத்தவர்கள் அல்லது கொழுப்புள்ளவர்கள்'னு சொல்ல நெனச்சி கொழு'னு சொல்லியிருக்கலாம்..... அதுக்கு அடுத்து நன்'னு ஒரு சொல் போட்டு.... நல்லா கொழுப்பெடுத்தவங்க :rotfl:எப்படி வேணும்னாலும் அர்த்தம் எடுத்துக்கலாம் தப்பில்ல. ஆனா, கொழுநன்ன மட்டும் கொழுந்தன்னு அத்தம் பண்ணிக்காதீங்க. அப்புறம் விவகாரமா போயிறும்
And vice versa! Sometime back a movie was released with this odious, nauseating concept! I forget its name!

[P_R]

கருணாநிதி :கணவன் வாக்கினைக் கடவுள் வாக்கினை விட மேலானதாகக் கருதி அவனையே தொழுதிடும் மனைவி பெய் என ஆணையிட்டவுடன் அஞ்சி நடுங்கிப் பெய்கின்ற மழையைப் போலத் தன்னை அடிமையாக எண்ணிக் கொள்பவளாவாள்.

I have read it before but it is impressive :clap:

Brilliant work by MK. One has to give it to him.

The two parts of the kuRaL are independent and the joining comes from our reading.

Traditional reading

தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் தொழுதெழுவாள் (சொன்னால்)
பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை

MK's reading
தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் தொழுதெழுவாள் (எப்படிப்பட்டவள் என்றால்)
பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை (போன்றவள்)

Sharp wit !

:omg:
:shock:
Classic example of அனர்த்தம்!
பெய்யென்றால் பெய்துவிடுமாக்கும் மழை அடிமை போல? :roll:

Yeah. But we needn't diss it as அனர்த்தம்.
அப்படியும் அர்த்தப்படுத்திக்கொள்வதற்குப் போதுமான இடைவெளி அக்குறளில் இருக்கிறது (அடைப்புக்குறிக்குள் இருக்கும் சொற்கள் நம் புரிதலால் வரும் சொற்கள்).

மிக புத்திசலித்தனமான உரை. :-)

[pavalamani pragasam]

:huh:

[P_R]

:confused2:

He had found a way to interpret in a manner that is both consistent with the text taken as such (i.e. without making any factual misrepresentations of the text) and at the same time moving away from the traditional representation. Quite like a lawyer finding a loophole in the letter of the law :lol2:

[pavalamani pragasam]

pOthumE vakkaalaththu! I'm not buying it!!!

[Plum]

konjam stretch-A irukku. The udhaaraNam of rain that pours on order is so unreal that it fails its purpose as a simile. Oru udhaaranam kudukkarache, Gun-A, Done-A, porundharA maadhiri irukka vENAm? Edho sollaNumEnu sonna maadhiri enna idhu?

(PP's) objection sustained!

[pavalamani pragasam]

:ty: silarudaiya vaayjaalaththil palar mayangalaam, ellOrum mayanga mudiyaathu!

[Wibha]

I know I voted for the second option but even first doesn't make a big deal.. :D


naan total-a katchi maariyaachu :roll:

[crazy]

vaazhkaina ipadi thaan wibhs....ennaikaachum katchi maari thaan aaganum :)

[ajithfederer]

Maami,

Ungalukku edhukku ippo kalyanam?. Apadi nadadha eppadiyum payyan aaravadhu maasam unga kodumai thaangama odiduvaan. Illati 7th month neengale adichu thorathiduveenga :P.

[Wibha]

Maami,

Ungalukku edhukku ippo kalyanam?. Apadi nadadha eppadiyum payyan aaravadhu maasam unga kodumai thaangama odiduvaan. Illati 7th month neengale adichu thorathiduveenga :P.

naan love marriage support panrennu dhaan sonean...enaku edhuku kalyanam. I am a free bird :cool: poke:

[Roshan]

கருணாநிதி :கணவன் வாக்கினைக் கடவுள் வாக்கினை விட மேலானதாகக் கருதி அவனையே தொழுதிடும் மனைவி பெய் என ஆணையிட்டவுடன் அஞ்சி நடுங்கிப் பெய்கின்ற மழையைப் போலத் தன்னை அடிமையாக எண்ணிக் கொள்பவளாவாள்.

I have read it before but it is impressive :clap:

Yes :thumbsup:

[chevy]

The whole concept of ARRANGED MARRIAGE is weird.

Yes it works for most because of coercion and pressure.

It works out for some cause they are lucky.

Love marriages also dont work out at times. Even otherwise, its always better to try KNOWN devils than UNKNOWN ones.

I aint saying, ELOPE with the person you want, WITHOUT PARENT'S CONSENT. that is a GRAVE MISTAKE. IRREPAIRABLE.

Get the consent of ur parents, (which is no.one) then get married.
IF they dont, try and convince, IF THEY STILL DONT AGREE.....

CHOOSE another (OF UR OWN WILL, NOT PARENT'S ARRANGED ALLAINCE) which ur parents approve of.

Athukulla veetla manam mariyathai poi irukum.

[Sarna]

The whole concept of ARRANGED MARRIAGE is weird.

Yes it works for most because of coercion and pressure.

It works out for some cause they are lucky.

Love marriages also dont work out at times. Even otherwise, its always better to try KNOWN devils than UNKNOWN ones.

I aint saying, ELOPE with the person you want, WITHOUT PARENT'S CONSENT. that is a GRAVE MISTAKE. IRREPAIRABLE.

Get the consent of ur parents, (which is no.one) then get married.
IF they dont, try and convince, IF THEY STILL DONT AGREE.....

CHOOSE another (OF UR OWN WILL, NOT PARENT'S ARRANGED ALLAINCE) which ur parents approve of.

Athukulla veetla manam mariyathai poi irukum.

:lol:

[P_R]

konjam stretch-A irukku. The udhaaraNam of rain that pours on order is so unreal that it fails its purpose as a simile.

Eh...that is exactly why the similie works.
It is the nature of the rain to not pour on order. It is a free spirit. One cannot contain nature. So the 'rain pouring on order' is such an abysmal state of affairs. It goes against the very nature of rain. That is what comes out in the choice of similie.

Btw if you were referring to the original interpretation that the 'rain will pour if the honorable woman commands it to' itself being unreal - then I agree :-) The reinterpretation makes the most out of the unreal-ness.

[P_R]

btw inga active-A participate paNra iLaingnargaL paththi... ennamO louu-ku veedu mattum dhaan prachanai 'ngra range-la maindain paNreenga :lol2:

From Vamanan (sic)
Jai: dei naan Madras vandhu nadigan aagap pOrEn dA....engappA permission kuduthuttAru
SanthAnam: unga appA enna AVM SaravaNan-A...dhinam ethanai pEr ippidi Madras kiLambi varaanunga theriyumA

[littlemaster1982]

Competion jaasthingaringala :?

[P_R]

That too but principally the issue of putting the cart before the horse

As Singaravelan responds to Drum's Mani's advise against consanguinous marriages.

[Plum]

That too but principally the issue of putting the cart before the horse

As Singaravelan responds to Drum's Mani's advise against consanguinous marriages.

:lol: - chattila irundha dhaane..

[crajkumar_be]

From Vamanan (sic)
Jai: dei naan Madras vandhu nadigan aagap pOrEn dA....engappA permission kuduthuttAru
SanthAnam: unga appA enna AVM SaravaNan-A...dhinam ethanai pEr ippidi Madras kiLambi varaanunga theriyumA
:rotfl3: :rotfl3: Ultimate!!!

[Sudhaama]

.

. Arranged-Marriage... NEED NOT BE.... by PARENTS or Gaurdians.!..


..But also by the directly concerned... BRIDE or BRIDEGROOM too.!


The CRITERIA behind the two Systems only... make the Difference.!



I have seen and closely observed both the sort of several cases... Arranged / Love Marriages...

..during the past about 60 years...

..enabling me to categorically and practically understand undoubtedly... the Merits and Demerits in either of these Concepts.

Yes. I have closely observed Five different cases of Bridegrooms... where the concerned Bridegroom Boy himself approached the matter by the Concept of Arranged-Marriage.

And also I have closely observed Three different cases of Brides.. where the concerned Bride Girl herself took the lead... strictly adopting the system of Arranged-Marriage...

All of them... without exception... successfully got married...

...and are happy even now too.!.. since more than 10 years... with Children!

The most interesting point here... is...

All of them ignored several ATTRACTIVE OFFERS by Love-Marriage Approach. WHY.?

What are the Different Criteria... behind the Two systems.?
.
.
.

[Sudhaama]

.

. DELETED.
.
.

[suba]

:)

i get reminded of a pattimanram from dindugul i.liyoni (did i spell his name correct?)

in an office by the closing time:

- aen ya... veetukku pogala?
- nee aen pogale?
- povomya... naragaththukku eppa pona enna?

(obviouisly both of them were married)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

love or arranged - marriage is a marriage. bond is a bond. pleasure or pressure - we are responsible.

:)

[Roshan]

:)

i get reminded of a pattimanram from dindugul i.liyoni (did i spell his name correct?)

in an office by the closing time:

- aen ya... veetukku pogala?
- nee aen pogale?
- povomya... naragaththukku eppa pona enna?

(obviouisly both of them were married)

:lol: I have seen some of my male colleagues who are married hanging around in office beyond office hours mainly to avoid going home.




love or arranged - marriage is a marriage. bond is a bond. pleasure or pressure - we are responsible.

:)

I think so too .

[Querida]

:)

i get reminded of a pattimanram from dindugul i.liyoni (did i spell his name correct?)

in an office by the closing time:

- aen ya... veetukku pogala?
- nee aen pogale?
- povomya... naragaththukku eppa pona enna?

(obviouisly both of them were married)

but isn't that sad? Even pathetic? I mean isn't the best part of your day supposed to be going home to family? :(



love or arranged - marriage is a marriage. bond is a bond. pleasure or pressure - we are responsible.

:)

words of wisdom :thumbsup:

[Sudhaama]

.
.
. ARRANGED-MARRIAGE... by the directly concerned... BRIDE or BRIDEGROOM too.!


Why they neglected LOVE-MARRIAGE Concept.?...


..but PREFERED... Arranged Marriage.?... Why.?



Yes. In these PRACTCAL CASES I have quoted here... as I closely observed...

...One and all of the BRIDES OR BRIDEGROOMS... who initiated... were invariably quite BEAUTIFUL / PRETTY / HANDSOME...

...although of varied status and rungs in the Society... from Poor to Rich....

...from Labourer to Industry-Owner millionaire....

...in the various regions of India and abroad as well.!

But yet they ignored SEVERAL ATTRACTIVE OFFERS for Love-Marriage. Why?

They all were NOT RASH... to decide hastily..on this MOST IMPORTANT LIFE-ASPECT...

..but WISE ENOUGH... to closely study and understand the TRUTH BEHIND...

...as to what makes those Proposing Lovers get ENCHANTED to advance towards the NON-REACTIVE... NON-RECIPROCATIVE other side.!

They found out the Truth... those Lovers are just falling as PREY to the PHYSICAL GLAMOUR mostly...

....and FINANCIAL RICHNESS... in a few cases.

Then they HATED their Lovers Offer based on PRETENTIVE LOVE...

..of DUBIOUS SINCERETY... backed by UNRELIABLE Perpetuation of Love all through their Married Life...

Yes. Mutual- Love between the Couple... all through the Life... is the Most important Factor.

irrespective of unforeseen turns of circumstances...

...ups and downs of Status... after Marriage.!

They did not forget that the Glamour / Charm by PHYSICAL BEAUTY... will NOT LAST LONG... by age.!

Then they chose the Best amongst the Offers by Arranged Marriage pursuit....

..since could satisfy themself... on the TRUE PURPOSE OF MARRIAGE...

Selection-Criteria on Life-partner is NOT CONFINED TO SEX-FACTOR only...

...although SEX too... is One of the IMPORTANT FACTORS.!

..BUT ALSO Far-beyond.!... as well as More of HUMAN-VALUES.!..

...So as to ensure REAL Life-pleasure all through Married- Life.!
.
.

[joe]

கருணாநிதி :கணவன் வாக்கினைக் கடவுள் வாக்கினை விட மேலானதாகக் கருதி அவனையே தொழுதிடும் மனைவி பெய் என ஆணையிட்டவுடன் அஞ்சி நடுங்கிப் பெய்கின்ற மழையைப் போலத் தன்னை அடிமையாக எண்ணிக் கொள்பவளாவாள்.

I have read it before but it is impressive :clap:

Brilliant work by MK. One has to give it to him.

The two parts of the kuRaL are independent and the joining comes from our reading.

Traditional reading

தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் தொழுதெழுவாள் (சொன்னால்)
பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை

MK's reading
தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் தொழுதெழுவாள் (எப்படிப்பட்டவள் என்றால்)
பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை (போன்றவள்)

Sharp wit !

:omg:
:shock:
Classic example of அனர்த்தம்!
பெய்யென்றால் பெய்துவிடுமாக்கும் மழை அடிமை போல? :roll:

Yeah. But we needn't diss it as அனர்த்தம்.
அப்படியும் அர்த்தப்படுத்திக்கொள்வதற்குப் போதுமான இடைவெளி அக்குறளில் இருக்கிறது (அடைப்புக்குறிக்குள் இருக்கும் சொற்கள் நம் புரிதலால் வரும் சொற்கள்).

மிக புத்திசலித்தனமான உரை. :-)
ஜெயலலிதா ஆட்சி காலத்தில் காளிமுத்து சபாநாயகராக இருந்த போது ,தினமும் சட்டசபை ஆரம்பிக்கும் போது ஒரு குறளை சொல்லி அதற்கு உரையையும் படிப்பாராம் ..நீண்ட நாட்களுக்கு பின்னர் தான் ஜெயலலிதாவுக்கு தெரிய வந்தது ,காளிமுத்து தினமும் படிப்பது கருணாநிதி எழுதிய உரை ..அதன் பின் காளிமுத்து-வுக்கு என்ன நேர்ந்திருக்கும் என நான் சொல்லத் தேவையில்லை :lol:

[P_R]

:lol:

[crazy]

:lol: :lol:

[app_engine]

'பெய்' என்று சொன்னவுடன் எங்கே மழை அஞ்சி, நடுங்கிப்பெய்கிறது? கெஞ்சினால் கூட நடக்காது. ஆனால், கணவனே கண் கண்ட தெய்வம் என இருக்கும் தமிழ்ப்பெண்டிருக்குக்கணக்கே இல்லை.

Everyone in TN knows the difficulty of getting timely rain and that has even been the topic of worship in many villages. Where is the question of virtuous women being compared to "easy rain"? Funny!

மு.க.வின் விளக்கம் குதர்க்கம். Illogical interpretation. நகைக்கத்தக்கது :-) I'm surprised he acknowledges கொழுநன் as husband and not something else :-)

What was originally intended by ThiruvaLLuvar is definitely closer to the traditional one, with "uyarvu naviRchi aNi" highlighting the elevated status of கற்புடைப்பெண்டிர்!

[app_engine]

And it's also funny to note a same-side goal by mu-kA here.

In his alleged effort to safeguard women's rights - to be not in slavery under men, he unwittingly acknowledges that they should rather listen to God (rather than listening to their hubbies), i.e. by way of his extra interpretation from what the original poet didn't intend :-)

So, all his atheistic policies go for a six!

[P_R]

'பெய்' என்று சொன்னவுடன் எங்கே மழை அஞ்சி, நடுங்கிப்பெய்கிறது?

Everyone in TN knows the difficulty of getting timely rain and that has even been the topic of worship in many villages. Where is the question of virtuous women being compared to "easy rain"?


That is exactly the point.

அவ்வாறு பெய்தால் அது மழையின் இயல்புக்கு முரணாகும். அதேபோல கணவணையும் அவன் சொல்லையும் 'வணங்கும்' பெண்ணும் தன் சுதந்திர இயல்பைத் துறந்து, இயல்புக்கு முரணாக நடக்கும் 'பெய்யனப்பெய்யும் மழை போல' ஆகிறாள்.

Anyway I am not claiming this was valluvar's 'intention'. I am just saying the interpretation used the prevalent gaps in the text - i.e. did not ignore in the text- and brought out an alternative interpretation.

[app_engine]

I agree, strictly going by the language construct.

However, the whole context (when one walks through the whole adhikAram / pAl in the kuRaL) doesn't support such meaning.

Even if we agree that was the case, it still asks her to be adimai to 'dheivam'. Also in the Thamizh tradition, "thalaivan - kaNavan" happened to be "nAthan" too. In any case, mu-kA does not succeed in getting a woman out of slavery.

He is doing both kuRaL and women disservice (also to his professed atheism) with this twisted interpretation :-)

[P_R]

I agree, strictly going by the language construct.
However, the whole context (when one walks through the whole adhikAram / pAl in the kuRaL) doesn't support such meaning.

It only gets worse (http://www.dinamalar.com/kural_detail.asp?kural_No=57&Submit=Submit) :lol2:

Once again the PoV of சிறைகாத்து in the original kuRaL is turned on its head in MK's explanation. You are going to dislike this even more I guess


Even if we agree that was the case, it still asks her to be adimai to 'dheivam'. That is a completely innoccuous proposition compared to being an 'adimai' conceptually or literally to a fellow human being.


In any case, mu-kA does not succeed in getting a woman out of slavery.
To take a text which is regressive in the current context of the times and turn it on its head to produce a 'Whoa !' effect is atleast 'a small step in that direction'. The imagery was employed to good effect IMO.

He is doing both kuRaL and women disservice (also to his professed atheism) with this twisted interpretation :-)[/quote]

[app_engine]

Once again the PoV of சிறைகாத்து in the original kuRaL is turned on its head in MK's explanation. You are going to dislike this even more I guess:-)

Actually, not :-)

Here it makes sense, as the action is attributed to someone other than the woman herself. OTOH, the kozhunan thozhuthezhuvAL talks about voluntary action from the woman's part and mu-kA's interpreation sticks out as a sore thumb.

The whole point is about both husband and wife being loyal to each other with strong commitment that brings benefits to the family. He is trying to twist like feminist stuff which is out of place IMO.

[joe]

Even if we agree that was the case, it still asks her to be adimai to 'dheivam'. Also in the Thamizh tradition, "thalaivan - kaNavan" happened to be "nAthan" too. In any case, mu-kA does not succeed in getting a woman out of slavery.
:lol:

கருணாநிதி வள்ளுவர் சொன்னதை தான் எவ்வாறு புரிந்து கொள்கிறார் என்பதை தான் உரை எழுத முடியுமே தவிர ,தன் சொந்த கருத்தை அதில் ஏற்ற முடியாது .

கருணாநிதிக்கு கடவுள் நம்பிக்கை இல்லாமல் இருக்கலாம் .ஆனால் வள்ளுவர் சொல்வதை மறுப்பதல்ல உரை .

மேலும் ,கடவுள் என்பது உண்மையாக இருப்பவரானால் (அது தான் வள்ளுவர் நம்பிக்கை) ,படைப்பிற்கே மூலமான கடவுளுக்கு மனிதன் (ஆண் ,பெண் இருவரும்) கட்டுப்பட்டவர்கள் என்பதில் 'அடிமைத்தனம்' இருப்பதாக நான் கருதவில்லை.

[Sudhaama]

.

.Whereto.... you all.... are DRAGGING us.?...


My Dear Friends,

Although your discussions are interesting...

Whereto.... All of You... are taking our Hubbers.?

...Does this trend has anything to do... with the Topic of this Thread.?

Will you please further continue this digressed topic on KARHPU (CHASTITY)...

... under THIRUKKURALH Thread.....as relevant...

...on POST-MARRIAGE Status of a Girl... RAISED TO WIFE.

And please allow this thread to continue on its SCOPE intended... regarding another parallel topic....

... on the PRE-MARITAL Process towards Marriage...

... either by LOVE-MARRIAGE or ARRANGED MARRIAGE System.?
.
.

[joe]

Sudhamma,
காதல் திருமணமா ,ஏற்பாடு செய்யபட்ட திருமணமா ? என்பதற்கும் பெண் ,ஆண் சமத்துவம் ,ஆணாதிக்கம் ,பெண் பணிவு -இவைகளுக்கும் சமொஅந்தம் இல்லையென்று சொல்கிறீர்களா ? :roll:

[Sarna]

What was originally intended by ThiruvaLLuvar is definitely closer to the traditional one, with "uyarvu naviRchi aNi" highlighting the elevated status of கற்புடைப்பெண்டிர்!

:)

enakkum apdi dhaan thOnuchchu... ippavum apdidhaan thOnudhu (http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=9850&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=480)

// end digression

[Sudhaama]

..
DELETED.
.

[app_engine]

கருணாநிதிக்கு கடவுள் நம்பிக்கை இல்லாமல் இருக்கலாம் .ஆனால் வள்ளுவர் சொல்வதை மறுப்பதல்ல உரை .

மேலும் ,கடவுள் என்பது உண்மையாக இருப்பவரானால் (அது தான் வள்ளுவர் நம்பிக்கை) ,படைப்பிற்கே மூலமான கடவுளுக்கு மனிதன் (ஆண் ,பெண் இருவரும்) கட்டுப்பட்டவர்கள் என்பதில் 'அடிமைத்தனம்' இருப்பதாக நான் கருதவில்லை.

I totally agree with you, Joe on both the points.
(My pulling in "slavery to God" is only to have some vambu by commenting on the so-called-atheism of MK :-) Personally I strongly believe we all owe our existence to a grand creator and are mere dust in front of him - much less than adimaikaL)

Having observed Karunanidhi's political conveniences for decades, I don't think it will be unusual for him to get into "word play" to push his agenda - feminism in this case - rather than the original intention of the poet.

The interesting part is as the theism of Valluvar is so clearly and openly stated in a number of places (starting from the first adhikAram), Karunanidhi doesn't have much opportunity to twist around and push his agenda in that case (so unfortunate for him - or may be he is just a hypocrite atheist whose inner self believes in a superhuman being. I haven't read all his writings and it's possible he could have conveniently brought in Anna's "oruvanE dEvan" at some point as needed).

OTOH, the "subjection of woman to man" (a key concept in many religions) may not be so explicit in kuRaL (though the idea is intrinsic in places, IMO, like the one in discussion). So, Karunanidhi exploits a little bit there and enjoys the opportunity in at least attacking some religious belief :-) As PR says, quite smart of him.

[Sudhaama]

.
Dear Friends,

I have quoted yuor last postings... under the relevent Thread... THIRUKKURALH... as below.

Please further continue your parallel discussions there.

- THIRUKKURALH
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1903616#1903616

Since this diversion / Digression... towards Thirukkurhalh... has NO CONCERN...

...Nor... RELEVANCE here... under this Topic thread.
..

[app_engine]

சுதாமா ஐயா,

திருக்குறள் இழைக்கு நன்றி.

இந்த இழையில் (அதாவது பெரியோரால் நிச்சயிக்கப்பட்ட v/s காதல் மணங்கள்) "கொழுநன் தொழுதல்" பற்றிய விவாதத்தில் இனி நான் இல்லை :-)

[Sudhaama]

.
.
Arranged-Marriage.... Processs of FEMALE-OPPRESSION.... by Males.?



Sudhamma,
காதல் திருமணமா ,ஏற்பாடு செய்யபட்ட திருமணமா ? என்பதற்கும் பெண் ,ஆண் சமத்துவம் ,ஆணாதிக்கம் ,பெண் பணிவு -இவைகளுக்கும் சமொஅந்தம் இல்லையென்று சொல்கிறீர்களா ? :roll:

Dear "joe"

We have to understand well on the concept of ARRANGED MARRIAGE...

...and discern in comparison to Love-Marriage.!

Arranged Marriage need not be by Males alone.!

May be by the Bride's Mother, Elder- Sister or even by her own self, as the Bride.... as my last posting means.

The process of Arranged-Marriage takes into consideration... all the aspects involved for the prospective Life-partner...

...whereas in Love-Marriage... there is ONLY ONE FACTOR dominating and superseding all other relevant factors.

That Sole-factor is... Girl and Boy love each other prior to Marriage... somehow.!...

..How.? Why.?... On what basis.?

PHYSICAL-BEAUTY.... GLAMOUR... Only only only...!

..Is it enough.?

The important difference between these, is...

Love-Marriage means... LOVE PRIOR TO MARRIAGE.!

Whereas in case of Arranged-Marriage... LOVE AFTER MARRIAGE.!..

By arranged Marriage too... the couple can take more time and opportunities to mutually understand each other...

...and convey their decisions to their parents.

It has been practically found that in most of the cases...

... in the name of Love-Marriage... the Couple are indulging in SELF-DECEIPT...

..because of Non-involvement of their staunch well-wishers.. especially their Parents participation in decision....

..and Non-consideration of several other Criteria too... equally relevant and important... for deciding on the Marital-match.

Love-Marriage is no doubt one of the authorised systems in our tradition...

For example... Nala-Damayanthi... Sakunthala-Dhushyantha... Krishna-Rukmini... Devadas-Gandhi - Rajaji's daughter.... Sonia-Gandhi - Rajeev Gandhi

But those Marriages had DEEP SENSE... of HUMAN-VALUES behind.!

..to justify and over-rule the Arranged Marriage process. Consequently such proposals by the couples themselves were approved by the Parents and other Seniors

But now... where this Love-Marriage MADNESS is leading the Society to.?...

RASH-DECISIONS by innocent Youth... based on the Youthful emotion and instinct...only.!

..which seriously affect their whole Families, Heredity and Society...

....apart from their own Future.?

How this process of Love-Marriage is EXPLOITED... leading to Miseries...

...especially in this Country U.S.A... by Indians too...

..as also within the present India too...

...as the Update process.!...

...by AUTOCRATIC DECISION... in the name of Love-Marriage.!

In most of the cases, the INNOCENT WOMEN is exploited by Love-Marriage.!

I am seeing and pitying them.!
.
.

[MrIndia]

Marriages fail mostly because either one of us get bored of their partner at some point.. how soon is the question..

in arranged marriage this is mostly short as they tend to put the blame on their parents..
in love marriage this is little longer as couple takes responsibility as they chose each other.

When you tend to adjust with your partner , they patchup and live together .

Both love or arranged marriage,, its the marriage that fails and not the concept (love or arranged).

Depends on the person, when his/her marriage is successful or failure. If you keep your life interesting... ur marriage life will also be gud.

There is a small percentage which separate because of incompatiblity or ego.. athellam seri panna mudiyaadhu..

ippo irrukira nilamaiku.. nalla* ponnu kidacha love marriage illati appa kaal'la vizhundhu arranged marriage.

[crazy]

Hehe :lol:

[Querida]

Sudhamma sir if there is one thing I try to restrain myself from, it is making generalizations and assumptions based upon stereotypes.

I highly doubt that all self-arranged/independent marriages (I call it thus because I do not like to think of arranged marriages as love-less) are based on glamour/appearance, if so I doubt such relationships would even last up to marriage. I stand by my humble opinion that the key is not arranged or independent marriage but how the married couple communicate and resolve conflicts that allows their marriage to be strong and solid.

[Wibha]

Both love or arranged marriage,, its the marriage that fails and not the concept (love or arranged).
right :) :D





ippo irrukira nilamaiku.. nalla* ponnu kidacha love marriage illati appa kaal'la vizhundhu arranged marriage.

adhenna nalla pakathula star? :evil: :twisted:

:lol:

[jaaze]

terms and conditions apply :roll:

[Querida]

terms and conditions apply :roll:

this is the explanation to the star? Sounds more like contest rules. :P

[pavalamani pragasam]

matrimonial ads-la paakkalaam athellaam enna-nnu! :swinghead:

[Plum]

Sudhamma sir if there is one thing I try to restrain myself from, it is making generalizations and assumptions based upon stereotypes.

I highly doubt that all self-arranged/independent marriages (I call it thus because I do not like to think of arranged marriages as love-less) are based on glamour/appearance, if so I doubt such relationships would even last up to marriage. I stand by my humble opinion that the key is not arranged or independent marriage but how the married couple communicate and resolve conflicts that allows their marriage to be strong and solid.
This is so obvious querida, that it is sad this has to be explicitly stated.

[Querida]

Sudhamma sir if there is one thing I try to restrain myself from, it is making generalizations and assumptions based upon stereotypes.

I highly doubt that all self-arranged/independent marriages (I call it thus because I do not like to think of arranged marriages as love-less) are based on glamour/appearance, if so I doubt such relationships would even last up to marriage. I stand by my humble opinion that the key is not arranged or independent marriage but how the married couple communicate and resolve conflicts that allows their marriage to be strong and solid.
This is so obvious querida, that it is sad this has to be explicitly stated.

I'm glad you think it is obvious :thumbsup: I hope many other hubbers agree!

[Sarna]

Sudhamma sir if there is one thing I try to restrain myself from, it is making generalizations and assumptions based upon stereotypes.

I highly doubt that all self-arranged/independent marriages (I call it thus because I do not like to think of arranged marriages as love-less) are based on glamour/appearance, if so I doubt such relationships would even last up to marriage. I stand by my humble opinion that the key is not arranged or independent marriage but how the married couple communicate and resolve conflicts that allows their marriage to be strong and solid.
This is so obvious querida, that it is sad this has to be explicitly stated.

I'm glad you think it is obvious :thumbsup: I hope many other hubbers agree!

count me in :D

anbum puridhalum vittukkoduththalum illaina ........

[BM]

Either its love marriage or arranged marriage, there should be love after marriage.

[BM]

But if there is a choice between love or arrange marriage means surely i would go for love marriage.

[Punnaimaran]

Either its love marriage or arranged marriage, there should be love after marriage.

BM,

I'm reminded of this:
Why do most people put more efforts on their weddings than their actual marriages?

[MrIndia]

ippo irrukira nilamaiku.. nalla* ponnu kidacha love marriage illati appa kaal'la vizhundhu arranged marriage.

adhenna nalla pakathula star? :evil: :twisted:

:lol:

:wink: * depends on personal tastes and preferences :)

[BM]

Either its love marriage or arranged marriage, there should be love after marriage.

BM,

I'm reminded of this:
Why do most people put more efforts on their weddings than their actual marriages?

In that quote instead people, i want to put parents... Ya almost all parents are very much interested n focussed in their children wedding n not thinking abt their marriage life... Marriage has become a perfect business now a days irrespective of caste or religion... Nlla grand ah avanga children ku wedding panni veikanum nu than nenaikraanga but not thinking abt their marriage life n thats the main reason for the failure of many marriage life now a days... If their children are in love means what wrong in respecting their feelings, parents hav to consider their love n if they find any valid wrong in their love apart from caste or religion means they can oppose... Jus for caste or religion or for nothing sake if they r opposing means there is no wrong to get marry against their wish...

[app_engine]

In U.S., when one says "arranged marriage", it means someone with a gun forcing two people to get wedded :-)

And in previous decades (where an average American's knowledge on India, its customs etc were practically null unlike today), it used to shock them when someone visiting from India (like me) told them that his / hers was an "arranged marriage".

After some explanation (that no guns were involved but it was with the consent of the bride, groom, everybody in the family / relatives / village/ town etc) the shock was removed with the comment like 'hmmm...that makes sense, especially if it proves stable compared to ours which has a 50% failure rate".

If it's arranged marriage with the acceptance from bride / groom and immediate family members on both sides, it's still a good idea and not outdated.

If it's love marriage with the approval of parents, that makes a lot more sense and could prove to be really stable.

Both arranged marriages without consent of the boy or girl and love marriages with a lot of opposition from families will have a very shaky start. Things may work out sometimes but mostly it's an existence of trouble or even failure. (By love marriages here, I mean "the average ones where the boy / girl are not mature enough to understand what they're getting into". If they're in late 20's with jobs etc, for e.g., it's a different matter)

[suba]

:)

akkarai is always pachchai .... hmmmmmmm... :lol:

:)

[Ramona]

Why is it that arrange marriage is more appreciated at later ages than love marriage more common or desired at younger ages?

[app_engine]

Why is it that arrange marriage is more appreciated at later ages than love marriage more common or desired at younger ages?

I don't think so :-) From what I've seen, it goes both ways (in both cases). Like someone said, இக்கரைக்கு அக்கரை பச்சை.

The best thing, IMO, is "arranged love" :-)

[Roshan]

Why is it that arrange marriage is more appreciated at later ages than love marriage more common or desired at younger ages?

I don't think so :-) From what I've seen, it goes both ways (in both cases). Like someone said, இக்கரைக்கு அக்கரை பச்சை.

The best thing, IMO, is "arranged love" :-)

Either arranged marriage or love marriage - there's nothing called "arranged love". It's really funny when I hear people - specially from TN say "arranged cum love" :lol2: Meesaila maN ottalEnnu prove paNRaangaLaam :lol2:

Either you choose a partner by yourself or your parents, family, village, town etc choose a partner for you.

[Sarna]

It's really funny when I hear people - specially from TN say "arranged cum love" :lol2: Meesaila maN ottalEnnu prove paNRaangaLaam :lol2:

two process i have observed.....

1st process
Nichchayam panni 6 month or 1 year kazhichchu marraige date fix pannuvaanga... indha gap'la love pannuvaanga....I mean forced love.... idhukku pEru arranged cum love :lol2:

2nd process
love panni parents'a oththukkavaachchu arranged marriage pannikkuvaanga .... idhukku pEr love-cum-arranged :)

[P_R]

village, town etc choose a partner for you. :lol:

[Plum]

village, town etc choose a partner for you. :lol:

:lol:


I read that there was a reality show recently some swayamvar? Did they have a voting process in that? As in, one public choice SMS winner and one judges' choice?

[kid-glove]

village, town etc choose a partner for you. :lol:

:lol:


I read that there was a reality show recently some swayamvar? Did they have a voting process in that? As in, one public choice SMS winner and one judges' choice?

WTH? Is this true?

[Shakthiprabha]

I remember seeing one such show in zee tv if I remember right. IT was called "swayamvar 2000" or something . It didn't go berserk to the extent that public chooses for the bride, but , the bride herself would make the choice. She chose her partner (out of 5 or 6 or howmuchever available) by the method of questioning and eliminating. She would eliminate one person in every round and finally it boils down to 1 or 2 until she decides upon which one is bakra .

The prog didn't last long and I still wonder if the decisions made remain valid for real marriage.

[kid-glove]

Yeah okay. That's better. As with most Northie shows, It's stolen from a western equivalent where the girl picks the person to date. Some concept eh!

[Shakthiprabha]

ah right not marrying but dating. She dates the guy (or vice versa if the contestant is a man) and probably must have eventually married the same person if rest of the factors were found satisfactory .

[kid-glove]

ah right not marrying but dating. She dates the guy (or vice versa if the contestant is a man) and probably must have eventually married the same person if rest of the factors were found satisfactory .
Thought so.

'Sacch Ka Saamna' is another lift. Now that's some show. :lol:

[app_engine]

Either arranged marriage or love marriage - there's nothing called "arranged love".

Most of the "dating" (i.e. with a real interest to marriage) in west goes by "arrangement" and that's what I loosely termed "arranged love". (This is different from the likes of boy finds a girl on the bus / train / mall kind - that "dating" ends with one or few nights).

In other words, the better approach to a longer lasting relationship is not to simply base on "instant chemistry" to "fall in love" (which typically fizzles out after the initial "physical intimacy" and proves to be a "fall in relationship") but get to know the person / background for a decent amount of time and have some strong reasons to "love".

[Ramona]

App,

You are close to the reasons behind my post. It distinguishes an independent young mind from an independent older mind. In other words, in the arrnage marriage of a young person, the person(s) arranging the marriage is/are actually acting out of that older mind - an older mind of wisdon, experience etc.

[app_engine]

This is for Roshan :-)
http://www.dinamalar.com/piraithalkal/kumudamnewsdetail.asp?News_id=248&dt=09-24-09

(kumudam features an "arranged love")

[Sudhaama]

.

How Classified.?... Arranged or Love-Marriage.?


Most of us are mistaking the Basic Concepts of these Two systems of choosing the Best Life-Partner...

..as if the "Arranged-Marriage" means... a Choice and Decision by the Parents or Gaurdian...

...which is THRUST on the Youth... without any Freedom of the DIRECTLY concerned Partner.

In fact.. the Love-Marriage is the THRUST CHOICE...on the Parents and all other Current WELL-WISHERS...

...who are left in DILEMMA... by the SINGLE-MINDED Choice of the youth only....

..ignoring the fact that the Mother knows her son better.... than that Son about himself.

The Medical Doctor alone can know our physique... better than what we can know of our own body.

I have repeatedly clarified on this point... in various angles...

..and also quoted some cases... where the relevent youth themselves preferably resorted to the system of Arranged-Marriage...

..based on Reasoning and high sense behind Arranged Marriage system.

While it is true... every person in his own interest... has to decide as to which of these two systems... is BEST APPLICABLE to him / her....

..without any BLANKET REJECTION of Arranged Marriage system itself as...OUT-DATED... Is it Not.?

Then rudimentarily... what classifies Arranged Marriage and Love marriage.?

Arranged Marriage system is a TOTAITY OF CONSIDERATION of all the factors and Criteria... to be a FIT LIFE-PARTNER...

...APT Prospective Mother.... Daughter-in-law.... Sister-in-law etc.

...more by the MATCHING QUALITIES and Propensities of the Girl for the Boy and Vice-versa.

In general... the Groom... somehow GETS ENCHANTED and like to possess a Girl for himselves... may be mostly by Glamour... which he names it as LOVE. ..

..and Vice Versa...

..by means of RASH DECISION....

.without much consideration of all the relevent PARALLEL criteria behind...

...vital to ensure a Happy and Successful Married Life... ALL THROUGH... IRRESPECTIVE OF advancement of AGE.... and other factors.

If it is based REALLY ON LOVE... HEART TO HEART... sincerely...

..conforming to our Indian Tradition... well, we welcome it.

But the present Nomenclature of Love-Marriage is holding a Western-Label... MOSTLY AMERICAN (USA)....

...in which sort of approach in general... now-a-days... the Physical glamour.... and SEXUAL RELATION alone are the highlights for selection...

...irrespective of the AFTER-EEFECTS... or the main factor of Longstanding Married-Life.!

On practical observation... we find... in most of the cases of Love Marriage of the current days... the WORST AFFECTED is the Girl....

...in the Long run... if not immediately after Marriage.

MY Dear youth... Beware... Married -Life can be a PARADISE...

....ONLY if the Match is proper.

Only the True matching Sizes and QUALITIES can make the....

... FITEST... Bolt and Nut Combination.!.
.
LOOSE THREADS... will LOSE THE GRIP.!
.
.
...

[app_engine]

http://www.hindu.com/2009/11/19/stories/2009111958120100.htm

Love marriage does not necessarily mean there will be love in the marriage :-(

(The news report talks about Geetha who got murdered in UK brutally ; the separated husband is among the suspects. Theirs was a "love" marriage -specifically, against the wishes of her parents- that ended in separation after two sons and was moving towards divorce when this murder happened)

[Sudhaama]

.
.
Why Youth resort to Marriage.?

...For MUTUAL INTERESTS in Life... Reciprocally.!


However... Life is NOT AN AGREEMENT... but a SACRAMANT...


...according to Indian Heritage... Practically found SUCCESSFUL.!!!




.




'There is some self-interest behind every friendship.
There is no Friendship without self-interests.
This is a bitter truth.'



Not Only for Friendship.!... but also for any sort of HUMAN-RELATIONS....

..and with NON-HUMAN Pets... too.!



Rather EMPATHY (Imagining Yourselves in the Others position, whom you are dealing with)...

...is the TRUE LIFE-CHARACTER... of Human-Values...

...which Can EASILY make Our Life ....a PARADISE.!...

...commensurate with the Degree and Standard of such a Healthy Spirit... we exhibit our sincere Intention...

....by WORDS AND ACTIONS... while dealing with others.

.
Yes. Even a Husband and Wife... who say... WE ARE WEDDED TOGETHER in all matters...

..do not mean... LACK OF SELF-INTERESTS.!

No Man marries... just as a SELFLESS OFFER... in the interests of a Stranger Woman....

...and Vice Versa.

But why He and She marry.?

Because he needs a FEMALE as Wife for him... and a Mother for his Children.

Whereas... on the other side... She needs a MALE as her Husband.

So, In return for getting HIS NEEDS OF FEMALE, fulfilled...

...he is prepared to RECIPROCATE by offering his Role... to fulfil her needs FOR A MALE as her Husband...

....alongside a Leader Caretaker to function as the Guardian for her and her Children...

..in a Team-Spirit.

So to say... for everything we aspire from others... we must have a SINCERE HEART to offer its DUE PRICE.... in return.!

That is... THE LIFE... in any case.!..

Yes ANY CASE IN LIFE... Be it in Profession, Business, Purchase, Selling, Marketing, Homely Functions and Celebrations, Employment, Learning... and What Not.?


Even God and Nature adopt the Same Law of... "GIVE AND TAKE"... Policy.


Empathy... the Best Policy...

...for REAL HAPPINESS...coupled with SUCCESS in Life.!


Not a Theory... But a PRACTICAL SELF-DISCIPLINE.!!!

..

.

[suba]

:)

okei.....

love marriage - marry the one who you love

arranged marriage - marry the one who had been loved by someone else.

:)

[pavalamani pragasam]

:shock:

'arranged marriage - marry the one who had been loved by someone else. '- cynical? or perverse?

[viraajan]

Both are waste :|

[Raikkonen]

Both are waste :|

:shock: :( :cry:

[pavalamani pragasam]

Yes, the trend is:
marriage is waste- we will live together with our own rules;
if married bearing children is waste- if any is born leave it in creche
INDEPENDENCE seems to be the mantra! Don't want responsibilities! Carefree has different meanings- DEPENDENCE on a loving relatioship can bring carefree happiness, meaningfulness and purpose in life. But with this increasing tribe of cowards... :sigh2:

[viraajan]

Both are waste :|

:shock: :( :cry:

yes. marriage ah? appadinu :shock: aayittu, appuram, pannikanuma? aapadinu :( aagi... appuram, yEnda pannikittom'nu :cry: azha vEndiyadhu thaan... :lol:

jk Raiks. chumma vandhu post panninen :P

mathapadi, edhuvum illa 8-)

Both marriages are ok as long as the couple can lead the life beautifully and adjust with each other showing no Ego, domination etc. :exactly: :yes: :cheer:

[pavalamani pragasam]

'jk Raiks'- appaadi! Relieved! :sigh2:

[jaaze]

'jk Raiks'- appaadi! Relieved! :sigh2: :lol:

[suba]

:shock:

'arranged marriage - marry the one who had been loved by someone else. '- cynical? or perverse?

:)

:lol: that was a dialogue uttered in lighter sense by a character in a novel.

:)

[Bipolar]

My comments (whatever they may be worth, or not):

Frankly, yes, the concept of "arranged marriages" as practised in India, particularly among the middle classes in Tamil Nadu, is certainly outdated.

Ultimately, the purpose of marriage, more than anything else, is procreation (or you may wish to call it "reproduction"). The idea is - the couple can have children, and work together to provide a stable environment for the children to grow, mature and develop - in every way - physically, intellectually, emotionally - so really, that is the foremost purpose of the institution that we call marriage.

From a biological point of view, the most sensible thing to do is to find a reproductive partner who has good genes to pass on to the next generation - that maximises the likelihood of survival and further growth and development.

Darwin's theory dictates that the fittest shall survive, however, in a country like India, where "arranged marriages" are the norm, this principle is effectively being bypassed in a way, because you don't have to be physically fit to find a partner.

Darwin's theory only works when there is open and fair competition - however, with the "arranged marriage" concept, there is no open, fair competition. It doesn't matter how good you are, you can't just propose to a woman you like - her parents make the choice for her, and they have their own criteria that they use - highly outdated really. You can't tell her parents that you like their daughter because she is good-looking, and she likes you too because you are good-looking too (now that would be a "love marriage" - and that's really a bad word for our Thamizh Kalaachaaram-loving moral guardians) and that together, you can have healthy, physically fit children. Her parents would prefer to marry her off to her cousin, because that is the murai. Or maybe someone who is well-educated and employed in a highly-paying job, doesn't matter if he is short of height, asthmatic with a family history of heart disease, arthritis, baldness, diabetes, hypertension, hyperlipidaemia, etc. (incidentally, these conditions are pretty common in the Indian population - but to be honest, I can't give you the precise numbers/statistics) I think most parents would much rather fix the match with the guy with a huge bank balance and rubbish genes than let their daughter fall in love with the tall, strong, handsome, well-built athlete who may not quite be able to drive her around in a BMW to the hip seaside restaraunt every weekend and send their kids to a posh school.

Okay - I know what I'm trying to say, but I don't know if I explained myself well enough. If you have half a brain you will understand the point I'm trying to make. Just bear in mind - a population of over 1 billion people (that's more than 100,00,00,000 or a 100 "crores") and India won three medals at the 2008 Olympics. I can't remember the last time an Indian team competed at the Football World Cup. Ever wondered if our genes and reproductive strategies might have something to do with it all?

[pavalamani pragasam]

Oh! Oh! Oh! Bipolar! What an exaggerated perspective! Where are you living? You seem to be stuck in some bygone era! Times have changed. No more autocracy of parents 'compelling' their children to marry the person of their choice(which you are dead sure is a wrong, poor one!). Increasing love marriages- that too intercaste- with whole consent of parents- is the increasing trend in our community. We, old people are satisfied with the discretion of today's youth to choose their partners. The working environment seems to give them good opportunity to do so!!!
AND I must add the majority of boys and girls are still content with leaving the responsibility of choosing with their parents who they trust have their welfare as their first priority. Why do you think parents are fools? Selfish demons? Wow! What good regard and insight you have!!!

[Lambretta]

U'll forgive me PP ma'm, but I think Bipolar has a point atleast in this part of his post, with respect to the present-day context of arranged marriages, even though HE might have said this in context of arranged marriages of all times! :)


Darwin's theory only works when there is open and fair competition - however, with the "arranged marriage" concept, there is no open, fair competition. It doesn't matter how good you are, you can't just propose to a woman you like - her parents make the choice for her, and they have their own criteria that they use - highly outdated really. You can't tell her parents that you like their daughter because she is good-looking, and she likes you too because you are good-looking too (now that would be a "love marriage" - and that's really a bad word for our Thamizh Kalaachaaram-loving moral guardians) and that together, you can have healthy, physically fit children. Her parents would prefer to marry her off to her cousin, because that is the murai. Or maybe someone who is well-educated and employed in a highly-paying job, doesn't matter if he is short of height, asthmatic with a family history of heart disease, arthritis, baldness, diabetes, hypertension, hyperlipidaemia, etc. (incidentally, these conditions are pretty common in the Indian population - but to be honest, I can't give you the precise numbers/statistics) I think most parents would much rather fix the match with the guy with a huge bank balance and rubbish genes than let their daughter fall in love with the tall, strong, handsome, well-built athlete who may not quite be able to drive her around in a BMW to the hip seaside restaraunt every weekend and send their kids to a posh school.
On a lighter note, unfortunately(?) AFAIK, even most of the guys in so-called well-placed positions couldn't afford a BMW and posh schools, again in the present, post-recession context! :)

[pavalamani pragasam]

:sigh2: The elder generation is mostly misunderstood and maligned!
As for 'murai' weddings where is the statics for advising against it? 2 healthy strains uniting is sure to bring forth lusty offspring!!! Who said marrying within blood is absolutely harmful? Is Darwin an authority than known instances for generations? :huh:
People with scant respect for strong family relationships are scorning the various advantages of keeping relationships in tact by marrying 'murai' relative. I'm not advocating for it. But just a standing example for not losing by it!

[pavalamani pragasam]

An interesting insight:
http://www.incubation360.com/our-life-n-our-space/38-our-life-n-our-space/223-do-qloveq-has-anything-to-do-with-marriage-and-its-longevity

[Bipolar]

:sigh2: The elder generation is mostly misunderstood and maligned!

PP ma'am!!! Sorry if my comments offended you... it wasn't my intention to offend anyone...


Who said marrying within blood is absolutely harmful? Is Darwin an authority than known instances for generations? :huh:


This is exactly the kind of thinking that holds us back... a reluctance to question our "generations-old" customs/traditions/practices... (Incidentally - and you may be surprised to hear this - Charles Darwin himself married his own first cousin, Emma Wedgewood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin#Overwork.2C_illness.2C_and_marriage )).

BUT - we need to look at the scientific evidence (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10085741?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed _ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=187)... (of course, that is only one study, but I will look at more studies, and I will try to provide more information, and I would also request others to look through the evidence and present what they find - we could have a fuller discussion).

[sathya_1979]

Whether it is love or arranged, the success of marriage is in adjustment and being accommodative - Me having a successful Love marriage (Of course with the blessings and consent of our parents). Marriage is an unavoidable and necessary committment, IMHO.

[Bipolar]

<>

[app_engine]

Hilarious as well as thought provoking blog post on this subject (http://d-tux.blogspot.com/2010/07/irreverential-look-at-great-indian.html)



A recent survey in the Hindustan Times ran a report, which, though shocking, isn't far fetched. A whopping 27.2% of people married through sites like Shaadi.com and BharatMatrimony undergo the trials and tribulations of a divorce. Out of this, 19.1% of them get divorced within the first two years of marriage. 13.19% of women married through marriage websites have lodged complaints against their husbands and/or their families accusing them of physical and mental torture to the extent of marital rape on the issues of dowry. 9.15% have lodged complaints of bigamy against their spouses. 2.8% of such marriages end in honour killings. Which means that one out of every four marriages end up in court and one out of every 35 girls in such marriages end up dead

[Sudhaama]

.
Shifted.

[Dhakshan]

Whether it is love or arranged, the success of marriage is in adjustment and being accommodative - Me having a successful Love marriage (Of course with the blessings and consent of our parents). Marriage is an unavoidable and necessary committment, IMHO.

:think:

[sathya_1979]

Whether it is love or arranged, the success of marriage is in adjustment and being accommodative - Me having a successful Love marriage (Of course with the blessings and consent of our parents). Marriage is an unavoidable and necessary committment, IMHO.

:think:
Idhula enna kuzhappam?

[Dhakshan]

Whether it is love or arranged, the success of marriage is in adjustment and being accommodative - Me having a successful Love marriage (Of course with the blessings and consent of our parents). Marriage is an unavoidable and necessary committment, IMHO.

:think:
Idhula enna kuzhappam?

Ethanaavadhu love :lol: j/k
But yes, unga love story thaan poitu iruke (innum mudikala :hammer: )...

[sathya_1979]

Whether it is love or arranged, the success of marriage is in adjustment and being accommodative - Me having a successful Love marriage (Of course with the blessings and consent of our parents). Marriage is an unavoidable and necessary committment, IMHO.

:think:
Idhula enna kuzhappam?

Ethanaavadhu love :lol: j/k
But yes, unga love story thaan poitu iruke (innum mudikala :hammer: )...
No.7 :lol:
Typing the last part of story-1 :D

[Dhakshan]

No.7 :shock:
Appo innum 6 stories baakki iruku :lol2:
BTW unga story romba late aanadhala suthamaa ngyabagam illai.. Marubadium 1st laerndhu aarambikanum...

[sathya_1979]

Posted quoting the first 2 parts. Read and post ur feedbacks

[Sudhaama]

.


All sorts of Controversies and PROBLEMS arise....


...Mainly due to BELATED-MARRIAGE



பெண்ணிற்கு ஏற்ற திருமண வயது எது?

...சுப்ரீம் கோர்ட் கேள்வி



பெண்ணிற்கு ஏற்ற திருமண வயது என்ன என்பது குறித்து சுப்ரீம் கோர்ட் கேள்வி எழுப்பியுள் ளது.

பெண் ணின் திருமணவயதுகுறித்து தேசிய மகளிர் உரிமை ஆணையத்திடம் சுப்ரீம் கோர்ட் கேள்விஎழுப்பி யுள் ளது.

தல்வீர் பந்தரி மற்றும் தீபக்க வர்மா ஆகியோர் முன்னிலையில் வந்த வழக்கு ஓன்றில் டெல்லி ஐகோர்ட்(2005) மற்றும் ஆந்திரமாநில ஐகோர்ட்டுகள்(2006) இருவேறுபட்ட தீர்ப்புகள் வழங்கப்பட்டுள்ளது தெரியவந்தது.

இதனை அடுத்து நாடு முழுவதும் ஒரேவகையானமுடிவு இருக்க வேண்டும் என வலியுறுத்தப்பட்டது.

இந்நிலையில் சிறு குழந்தைகள் திருமண சட்டம், இந்து திருமண சட்டம், இந்திய சட்ட திட்டம், முஸ்லிம்களின் ஷரியத் சட்டம், இந்திய விவகாரத்து சட்டம், குழந்தைதொழிலாளர் சட்டம் போன்றவற்றிலும் ஏற்றத்தாழ்வு காணப்படுகிறது.

இதனையடுத்து இன்னும் ஒரு மாத காலத்திற்குள் பெண்ணின்திருமண வயது குறித்து தீர்க்கமான முடிவுக்கு வரவேண்டும் என வலியுறுத் தப் பட்டுள்ளது.


My Recommendation based on the relevent Several Multi- Professional Experts advice, mainly on SCIENTIFIC FACTORS ::---


The Best LIFE-SEASON / APT AGE of due Maturity (Paruvam in Tamil) for Marriage....

...for any Female at the Age of 16 (Sweet SIXTEEN)... or on completion of 4 (Four) Years from the Date of Puberty... whichever is LATER.

...and for Male... at 20 (TWENTY).... Or on completion of SIX years from the Date of Puberty, whichever is LATER.

However the earliest BEST AGE to become a MOTHER...

... is only 25 for a Female... Fit enough by Life-Experience and Physical RIPENESS to hold in Womb as well as to bring up as the FIRST TEACHER HUMAN.. for the Baby.

..and 28 for Male as Father... Fit enough by Social status, Financial security and adequate Life-Experience to conduct an INNOCENT AND IGNORANT Newborn

Minimum INTERVAL between the adjacent children... 3 years.

Final delivery... the Best Age is 35 for the Mother..

Sudhaama.

.