The importance of being one Muthiah "Magic" Murali

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Rulesnu onnu irukku. Adhu dhaan final. Enakku pudikkalai, naan othukka maattenlam frustrated white man responses
(Ha ha, feeyar, idhu epdi irukku)

Ellorum enna solraanganna, naan nenachabadi indha rule illai adhanaala idhu thappu. Sorry, icc vekkaradhu dhaan rule. Mathadhellaam opinion.



Ithu puriyamal thaana ivalavu pirachanai :huh:



Court solradhu dhan theerpu. Sattam thappunnu pattuchunna parliament poi amendment kondu vaanga.

:exactly:

[Plum]

naan othukka maattenlam frustrated white man responses enRu solvadhu very frustrated brown man response


(Ha ha, feeyar, idhu epdi irukku) parattai kEkkumbOdhu, thalaivar oru badhil solluvaar..

This can go on in infinite loop, Feeyaar. I mean I can quote and add your first line at the bottom and then you can do the same and so on...

[Plum]

one thing i would like to say - warne,akram, saqlain, kumble got so many wickets, nobody had an arguement abt it - thats enough for me


Rahman doesnt deserve Oscar-nu solravangaLum irukkAnga. adhukkAga avarukku kodutha Oscar madhippizhakkAdhu, adhu pOla, sila pEru Muraliya question paNdradhAla avarOda record madhippizhakkAdhu.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

one thing i would like to say - warne,akram, saqlain, kumble got so many wickets, nobody had an arguement abt it - thats enough for me


Rahman doesnt deserve Oscar-nu solravangaLum irukkAnga. adhukkAga avarukku kodutha Oscar madhippizhakkAdhu, adhu pOla, sila pEru Muraliya question paNdradhAla avarOda record madhippizhakkAdhu.

:exactly:

I had that thought about ARR :lol2:

[raajarasigan]

Open a thread for Malingaaaa and talk about him there , not here :xParamu, vitta ella Srilankan playerskkum thani thaniya thread aarambichiduveenga pola...

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Open a thread for Malingaaaa and talk about him there , not here :xParamu, vitta ella Srilankan playerskkum thani thaniya thread aarambichiduveenga pola...

True

Malingava pathi ellam 'Legend' thread la discussion :evil: :sigh2:

any way :)

[P_R]

naan othukka maattenlam frustrated white man responses enRu solvadhu very frustrated brown man response


(Ha ha, feeyar, idhu epdi irukku) parattai kEkkumbOdhu, thalaivar oru badhil solluvaar..

This can go on in infinite loop, Feeyaar. I mean I can quote and add your first line at the bottom and then you can do the same and so on...
eh..ippo neenga dhaanE loop-Ai aarambicheenga.
Once again, iththOda niruthikuvOm.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

naan othukka maattenlam frustrated white man responses enRu solvadhu very frustrated brown man response


(Ha ha, feeyar, idhu epdi irukku) parattai kEkkumbOdhu, thalaivar oru badhil solluvaar..

This can go on in infinite loop, Feeyaar. I mean I can quote and add your first line at the bottom and then you can do the same and so on...
eh..ippo neenga dhaanE loop-Ai aarambicheenga.
Once again, iththOda niruthikuvOm. :goodidea:

apaadaaa

[P_R]

one thing i would like to say - warne,akram, saqlain, kumble got so many wickets, nobody had an arguement abt it - thats enough for me


Rahman doesnt deserve Oscar-nu solravangaLum irukkAnga. adhukkAga avarukku kodutha Oscar madhippizhakkAdhu, adhu pOla, sila pEru Muraliya question paNdradhAla avarOda record madhippizhakkAdhu.
enga kuthinA valikkumO ange kuththuraareegaLaakkum :lol2:

action maadhiriyE, analogy-um ungaLukku convincingA irundhA sari :-)

[MADDY]

one thing i would like to say - warne,akram, saqlain, kumble got so many wickets, nobody had an arguement abt it - thats enough for me


Rahman doesnt deserve Oscar-nu solravangaLum irukkAnga. adhukkAga avarukku kodutha Oscar madhippizhakkAdhu, adhu pOla, sila pEru Muraliya question paNdradhAla avarOda record madhippizhakkAdhu.
enga kuthinA valikkumO ange kuththuraareegaLaakkum :lol2:

action maadhiriyE, analogy-um ungaLukku convincingA irundhA sari :-)

:lol:

Art and sports - sutham........Plum, since u r not looking for relevance of analogies, why just stop with rahman, u can talk abt my mother, my family - i will get more irritated and get the point immediately :D

[Plum]

Analogy -nA apdi thAn. idhE mAdhiri CricketlEyE dhAn analogy kodukkaNumA?

I 'll maintain that questioning Murali is like questioning Rahman - the ones that can be called frustrated are the ones that are stomach-burning at the record holder(oscar winner). The ones rejoicing at the oscar winner(record holder) arent the frustrated ones.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

:rotfl3:

[Plum]

Infact, the analogy is perfectly valid. Look at someone like Judge - what would be his reaction to Oscar
"Sound EngineerlAm Oscar kudukkurAngayyA"
In other words, he is not able to understand the new paradigm of music that Rahman brought. He is sticking to "Old Rules of Music" that he knows. Hence the frustration at the recognition for Rahman. There is a self-righteous arrogance in that stance - enakku therinjadhu dhAN music, pudhusA ninga pandradhullAm music illai.

Exactly same thing is happening here - nAnga solradhu dhAn correctu, nAnga solradhu dhAN bowling action, ICClAm kENaiyan, Michael Holding kENaiyan.bio-mechanic expertslAm kENaiyan, nAnga dhAn buddhisAli, engaLukku therinjadhu dhAn bowling action..

[MADDY]

Analogy -nA apdi thAn. idhE mAdhiri CricketlEyE dhAn analogy kodukkaNumA?

oho!


I 'll maintain that questioning Murali is like questioning Rahman - the ones that can be called frustrated are the ones that are stomach-burning at the record holder(oscar winner). The ones rejoicing at the oscar winner(record holder) arent the frustrated ones.

its even futile to argue on what grounds u equated rahman and murali but "is like"oda niruthhikittengale, "is equal" to-nnu rulea amend pannama vittengale...........if u think, this will shut me off - no, i will always remember Murali as a great bowler with suspect action

(my sincere apologies to rahman fans, if Plum replies with a low-end dig at rahman)

[P_R]

the ones that can be called frustrated are the ones that are stomach-burning at the record holder
How many wickets had he taken in Dec '95 when he was called?

How many wickets did James Kirtley take?
Harbhajan when he was booted out the first time?

nallA vevaramA pEsunga.

[Plum]

(my sincere apologies to rahman fans, if Plum replies with a low-end dig at rahman)
low-end dig ingE Murali mEla nadakkaradhu dhAn. I have never stooped to that level on Rahman or any one else nor will I in the future. paNdradaiyum paNnittu mathavanga mEla pazhi nallA pOdarInga :evil:

[Plum]

the ones that can be called frustrated are the ones that are stomach-burning at the record holder
How many wickets had he taken in Dec '95 when he was called?

How many wickets did James Kirtley take?
Harbhajan when he was booted out the first time?

nallA vevaramA pEsunga.

Murali was on the road to being a phenomenon when he was called first. It is on record that an umpire was approached by an ACB official to call Murali - which I can only take as an attempt to neuter a potent weapon on the opposition side. Only naive people can believe that was an attempt to safeguard Cricket. So, I dont at all believe that this is a battle for dharma by Murali opposers. I dont know where you fall - I can understand if you speak for yourself but you seeem to be speaking for the whole anti-Murali gang and giving a clean chit to them.

When was Harbhajan called? Before or after 2001 bamboozling of Aussies? Refresh my memory.

When was Ajmal reported? After he bamboozled Aussies. He was bowling before also - but only when he was succesful, he was set upon by the Aussies.

Kirtley - a typical English trick to sacrifice a minor lamb to keep up image of being just. If Kirtley had great potential, he wouldnt have been reported.

[MADDY]

(my sincere apologies to rahman fans, if Plum replies with a low-end dig at rahman)
low-end dig ingE Murali mEla nadakkaradhu dhAn. I have never stooped to that level on Rahman or any one else nor will I in the future. paNdradaiyum paNnittu mathavanga mEla pazhi nallA pOdarInga :evil:

yaaru theva illama rahman-a inga kondu vandhadhu??? and u do that consistently to "get across a point to me" - if this is not low-end tactics, then what is

[P_R]

Plum, you guys are blessed with more expansive, progressive, permissive tastes and are all-welcoming for every change. engaL poRaamai niRaindha vaazhthukaL.

We have agreed to disagree on this.Then why do you bring up that race thing again and again and try to make the point that the only reason he was called was because of race. That means you are not agreeing to disagree at all.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

(my sincere apologies to rahman fans, if Plum replies with a low-end dig at rahman)
low-end dig ingE Murali mEla nadakkaradhu dhAn. I have never stooped to that level on Rahman or any one else nor will I in the future. paNdradaiyum paNnittu mathavanga mEla pazhi nallA pOdarInga :evil:

Murali has been insulted here to the core, I am not sure even his 'worst' critic known as beedi would do that.

ICC has cleared him, He has broken all sorts of record, he is in the book of 'greats' , his rival warne accepts Murali to be 'Greatest'. Then why this drama??
:evil:

[Plum]

(my sincere apologies to rahman fans, if Plum replies with a low-end dig at rahman)
low-end dig ingE Murali mEla nadakkaradhu dhAn. I have never stooped to that level on Rahman or any one else nor will I in the future. paNdradaiyum paNnittu mathavanga mEla pazhi nallA pOdarInga :evil:

yaaru theva illama rahman-a inga kondu vandhadhu??? and u do that consistently to "get across a point to me" - if this is not low-end tactics, then what is

What is wrong with that? How does that become low-end tactic? My stance in this matches with your stance in that. idhai solradhula enna low-end?

[MADDY]

engaL poRaamai niRaindha vaazhthukaL

:lol:

im with u on Hair as well - he was right against Murali and against Pakistan as well.........pakistan is my fav team, adhukaaga - nyayam, dharmam-nnu onnu irukkula :D

[MADDY]

Murali has been insulted here to the core
:evil:

show me 3 posts from this thread which is personally demeaning to Murali....

[Plum]

Plum, you guys are blessed with more expansive, progressive, permissive tastes and are all-welcoming for every change. engaL poRaamai niRaindha vaazhthukaL.

We have agreed to disagree on this.Then why do you bring up that race thing again and again and try to make the point that the only reason he was called was because of race. That means you are not agreeing to disagree at all.

"we"-nA? Frabhu Raum and Maddy and Vivasaayi? Or, including Emerson, Hair, ACB, ECB, ICC, Malcom Conn, Patrick Kidd? If it is the former, I am not implying anything at you. If it is the latter, then I resent your clean chit to them.

[Plum]

nInga solradhu dhAn nyAyamA? enga nyAyam dharmam padi Hair has been thoughtfully named by his parents, Or, rather, he has been thoughtfully placed in the right family by God.

[P_R]

Murali was on the road to being a phenomenon when he was called first. hmm can't access stats now but IIRC he wasn't that hot till he got called. Roshan and Raghu may know better.


It is on record that an umpire was approached by an ACB official to call Murali - which I can only take as an attempt to neuter a potent weapon on the opposition side. Only naive people can believe that was an attempt to safeguard Cricket. So, I dont at all believe that this is a battle for dharma by Murali opposers. I dont know where you fall - I can understand if you speak for yourself but you seeem to be speaking for the whole anti-Murali gang and giving a clean chit to them.
For the nth time. I don't care.
I see a chuck, I think Ross Emerson's call was correct. That is all. Everything else is speculation. But even if it were a fact it does not change my opinion on the technical basis for calling.



When was Harbhajan called? Before or after 2001 bamboozling of Aussies? Refresh my memory. :-)Unfortunately he was called when he was a nobody. Right after his debut series when he was a teenager.


Kirtley - a typical English trick to sacrifice a minor lamb to keep up image of being just. If Kirtley had great potential, he wouldnt have been reported. idhula typical vEraiyA. sari vidunga.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Murali has been insulted here to the core
:evil:

show me 3 posts from this thread which is personally demeaning to Murali....

From page one search for the word 'chucker' :sigh2:

[MADDY]

What is wrong with that? How does that become low-end tactic? My stance in this matches with your stance in that. idhai solradhula enna low-end?

why rahman everytime?? kuthhi kaatradhu nalla vishayam-nna neenga seyyuradhum correct

[MADDY]

Murali has been insulted here to the core
:evil:

show me 3 posts from this thread which is personally demeaning to Murali....

From page one search for the word 'chucker' :sigh2:

and how is that "personally demeaning"?? chucking is abt his bowling action and not his character

[P_R]

Plum, you guys are blessed with more expansive, progressive, permissive tastes and are all-welcoming for every change. engaL poRaamai niRaindha vaazhthukaL.

We have agreed to disagree on this.Then why do you bring up that race thing again and again and try to make the point that the only reason he was called was because of race. That means you are not agreeing to disagree at all.

"we"-nA? Frabhu Raum and Maddy and Vivasaayi? Or, including Emerson, Hair, ACB, ECB, ICC, Malcom Conn, Patrick Kidd? If it is the former, I am not implying anything at you. If it is the latter, then I resent your clean chit to them.

It is we (you and I) who agreed to disagree. neenga edhukku ellAraiyum koopidureenga? :lol2:

Viswanatha Iyer: sari avaaLa ellAm kootiNdu aathukku vandhudungO
Shanmugi maami: ayyO avaaLukku naan enga pOvEn?

[Plum]

What is wrong with that? How does that become low-end tactic? My stance in this matches with your stance in that. idhai solradhula enna low-end?

why rahman everytime?? kuthhi kaatradhu nalla vishayam-nna neenga seyyuradhum correct

pinnE IR Oscar vAngaliyE? epdi andha example kudukkaradhu?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

[tscii:f90685103e]Darrel hair
>>
Throughout his umpiring career, Hair has been a controversial figure. The majority of the prominent incidents have involved Asian nations, leading to accusations of bias. Rameez Raja claimed that subcontinental players universally feel that he is biased even to the extent of being racist. South Africa have also in the past levelled accusations of bias in matches. Other former cricketers such as Arjuna Ranatunga have complained about bias, and have been joined by Imran Khan and Kapil Dev in criticising Hair's manner as heavy handed.Despite this he has been supported by fellow elite umpire Simon Taufel.
<<

It is 'Obvious' he had a problem of non white skin

>>

Hair's first Test match was between Australia and India at Adelaide on 25 January to 29 January 1992, won by Australia by 38 runs with second innings centuries for David Boon and Mark Taylor after a first innings of only 145, and two 5-wicket bags by Craig McDermott. Wisden (1993 ed., p1011-2) noted that the game was “marred … by controversy over lbw decisions – eight times Indians were given out, while all but two of their own appeals were rejected”. Hair's partner was Peter McConnell, standing in his last Test match.

<<

ithuku enna sola poreenga :huh:[/tscii:f90685103e]

[Plum]

Chucker-nu solradhu implies he cheated. Chuck can only be defined by ICC rules. According to ICC rules, he doesnt chuck. He didnt cheat. You are saying he cheated if you say he chucked.
(I hope you dont agree with Bedi who called him a Robber)

[Plum]

ithuku enna sola poreenga
Easy. veLLakAran poi solla mAttAn.
Or in other words, all but two appeals of Indians werent legitimate while all 8 appeals of Aussies were legitimate. Hair is harichandran.

[Plum]

People imply that Murali got away *only* because BCCI had power and brought race into it. They can say that many western players and commentators are praising Murali *only* because otherwise they'll be construed as racist. But I cannot say the opposite of this. :huh:

[P_R]

Chucker-nu solradhu implies he cheated.
No.
He is congenitally constrained from bowling non-chucks.
But the rool was relaxed now even those who are not constrained can chuck.

Of course Murali can bowl leg-breaks clean as a whistle without bending his arm. But why would he bother to do that when he is 'allowed' to bowl offbreaks with his bent arm.


You are saying he cheated if you say he chucked. Consider chuck as a shorthand for 'congenitally constrained bent arm bowling which has hithero been sanctioned by the ICC'. Okay?
ippidi ezhudhinA konjam neeLamE irukkumEnu paakurEn.



(I hope you dont agree with Bedi who called him a Robber) As I have said earlier, Bedi's choice of expressions are tasteless. And it is unfortunate that by this he has made himself a laughing-stock whom no-one listens to. So we (and here I mean everyone who feels offended by Murali's ccbabwhhbsbti) are left with no good spokesman.

I am CERTAIN that there are plenty of experts out there who would be forthright in condemning this action if they were not afraid of being branded racists. That is what I think is unfortunate in this whole issue. How are you certain-nu kEkkAdheenga :lol2:

[P_R]

ithuku enna sola poreenga
Easy. veLLakAran poi solla mAttAn.
Or in other words, all but two appeals of Indians werent legitimate while all 8 appeals of Aussies were legitimate. Hair is harichandran.
Match parthA dhaan solla mudiyin.

No one can reasonably conclude from such an article.

Anyway, my point is even if Hair is a Tamilcinema veLLaiya adhikaari type cruel racist, I'd still agree with the call. idhaiyum yErkanavE pala thadavai sollittEn.

[Dinesh84]

:sigh2: by arguing about this.. no one is going to jump sides.. pinna ethuku intha kalavaram? and now all of you have shared what side they are on, lets end this..

naan intha kalavarathula participate eh pannala.. irunthaalum sollanum nu thonichi.. :)

[Plum]

I saw that match feeyaar. vazhakkam pOla Aussie umpiring. If not 8, 3-4 calls were questionable, which is a significant number in the context of that game.

We lost a test by 50 runs in that series - Azhar made a scintillating, boy in the burning deck, last day century. That one also we lost due to umpiring decisions.
Yet, when you think of Home Umpiring Bias, thanks to mooLai salavai by Western writers, automatically you think Pakistan.

[Plum]

See, I get your point about the lack of importance of intentions. To me, that intention is everything. That is injustice at a bigger level to me. Cricket is afterall a game. A racist intention is much bigger than that. Therefore, cricket becomes insignificant to me there.

[raajarasigan]

Dinesh,

With that, they moved around 20 pages now in this thread... :wink: It is high time to change the thread title... "Murali a Chucker?"

[P_R]

See, I get your point about the lack of importance of intentions. To me, that intention is everything. That is injustice at a bigger level to me. Cricket is afterall a game. A racist intention is much bigger than that. Therefore, cricket becomes insignificant to me there.
Wait, I am not saying I don't care about racism. Of course it is more important.

I am only saying that regardless of the alleged racial motivations I disagree with the action.OTOH what you seem to say is, as there is reason to believe the calling of Murali is racially motivated, solidarity demands I support him. (Correct me if I got this wrong). That is where I get off the bus.

In fact I go even further, I allege that racism is being used to take this argument to a different level and thus make the naysayers stand on weak ground.

[raajarasigan]

P_R,

naysayers - appadinna enna? operationa ?

[MADDY]

Of course Murali can bowl leg-breaks clean as a whistle without bending his arm. But why would he bother to do that when he is 'allowed' to bowl offbreaks with his bent arm

keeping aside, imperialism, colonialism, communism aside, yes, that is a significant point for me............if he can bowl with a straight arm at one instance why does he need to bowl with bent arm throughout his career..........and also, biology test edukkumbodhu, tigree-a adjust panni bowl pannittu, match-la bol pannumbodhu, kannapinnaannu arm-twist panna eppadi kandu pudikkradhu???

[P_R]

P_R,naysayers - appadinna enna? edhirppu therivippavargaL. Thos who say nay (an archaic form of no, used in Brit parliament when motions are put in for voice vote)


operationa ? :roll: operation-A??!

[Plum]

And I am saying that "racism is being used to take this argument to a different level and thus make the naysayers stand on weak ground" is being used by White Supremacists to make the ayesayers stand on weak ground :-)

[MADDY]

used in Brit parliament when motions are put in for voice vote

see, u reek of british colonialism....... :evil:

[Plum]

sari right ungaLukku Cricket romba mukkiyam. enakku Cricket-ai vida justice in Life romba mukkiyam. ingE dhAn disagreement.

[raajarasigan]

P_R,naysayers - appadinna enna? edhirppu therivippavargaL. Thos who say nay (an archaic form of no, used in Brit parliament when motions are put in for voice vote)


operationa ? :roll: operation-A??!P_R, tanq :)

operationa ? - word play by vadivelu from the movie 'Friends'..

the actual dialogue goes like this...

apprenticea - appadinna enna? operationa ? :lol:

[Plum]

Again, this doesnt mean that I concede he chucks. What I am saying is it doesnt matter to me whether he chucks or not. Equal and Opposite of Frabhu Raum

[MADDY]

sari right ungaLukku Cricket romba mukkiyam. enakku Cricket-ai vida justice in Life romba mukkiyam. ingE dhAn disagreement.


Wait, I am not saying I don't care about racism. Of course it is more important. I am only saying that regardless of the alleged racial motivations I disagree with the action.

[Plum]

Mere words are not enough. The stand that you take tells which is more important to you.

As Bala Karthik keeps quoting
sAthiyam enbadhu sol alla seyal.

[Plum]

If I were a little more obnoxious, I'd say "You are either with us or against us"
(self-deprecation alert: Don't use it as a confession :evil: )

[MADDY]

is allowing chucking a way to counter racism and standing by it is being non-racist?

P_R - u shuld have kept the arguements strictly technical :evil:

[P_R]

Flau, only if you are squeaky clean you have the right to question.
IMO someone who bribes a traffic policeman once, summarily forfeits the right to call a politician corrupt.

[P_R]

"You are either with us or against us"
Manobala to Vivek: this iss vaat I want

:sakehands:

[PARAMASHIVAN]

ithuku enna sola poreenga
Easy. veLLakAran poi solla mAttAn.
Or in other words, all but two appeals of Indians werent legitimate while all 8 appeals of Aussies were legitimate. Hair is harichandran.

:exactly:

[Plum]

is allowing chucking a way to counter racism and standing by it is being non-racist?

P_R - u shuld have kept the arguements strictly technical :evil:

No. But standing up against a racist move is required. To me, Cricket, rules, its silly laws all become irrelevant when it comes to this.

[Plum]

Flau, only if you are squeaky clean you have the right to question.
IMO someone who bribes a traffic policeman once, summarily forfeits the right to call a politician corrupt.

ippO ennai racist-ngarIngaLA?

(Ricky Ponting-ai thittaradhellAm kaNakkula eduthukka kUdadhu. endha oru normal human being-um seyya koodiyadhu dhAn adhu!)

[Plum]

"You are either with us or against us"
Manobala to Vivek: this iss vaat I want

:sakehands:

Disclaimer kaNNula padAdhO?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Dinesh,

With that, they moved around 20 pages now in this thread... :wink: It is high time to change the thread title... "Murali a Chucker?"

Raja

Dont start here :evil:

I am tempting use some words, but I wont. He has been clearly proven by ICC he is not a chucker. The rest is all individual 'Opinion' !!!

[P_R]

Flau, only if you are squeaky clean you have the right to question.
IMO someone who bribes a traffic policeman once, summarily forfeits the right to call a politician corrupt.

ippO ennai racist-ngarIngaLA? No no. :-)

I meant anyone who considers Murali's action flaky should not defend him just because he is being no-balled by racists.


(Ricky Ponting-ai thittaradhellAm kaNakkula eduthukka kUdadhu. endha oru normal human being-um seyya koodiyadhu dhAn adhu!) ippo ennai normal human illAingreengaLA? :lol2:

[Plum]

Mathematical Logic:

1. Berating Pricky is normal

Doesnt Imply
2. Normal means berating Pricky.

[P_R]

2. Normal means berating Pricky.

endha oru normal human being-um seyya koodiyadhu dhAn adhu!)

If X then Y means !Y ---> !X

adhE mathematical logic.

Anyway just kidding 'mbAingaLE. :lol2:

[Plum]

koodiyadhu != vEndiyadhu

sari, Paramu vandhu Mathematical Logic-nu thread Arambingannu solradhukku munnAdi essaayiduvOm

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Pls kantinuee :lol2:

[Movie Cop]

Ada Ada Ada Ada... innumA indhe panchayathu mudiyalE? (no thanks to Maddy!)

[Movie Cop]

what arguements P_R and Vivs :clap: ...........Murali record is great, but i would never accept his action - IMO, ICC rules=BCCI rules.........i dont care for both, they are seldom in spirit of the game........

and why is Srilanka keen on producing world class chuckers - now look at Malinga - every time he bowls, i feel like switching channels.......im dreading the day, when he would finish his career with 900 wickets and people will hail him as the best fast bowler than Akram or WI legends.......
Very sorry for being extremely judgemental here. IMO, any true follower/lover of cricket who cannot relish/appreciate Murali's spin bowling and summarily reject him based on the debate over his bowling action is nothing but a grumpy stickler of rules. To me, Murali is a rare cricketer who had done wonders/magic with the ball and has certainly enriched the art of off-spin bowling, in his unique way. But the flip/sorry side of it is, I suspect anyone else would be able to do a "Murali" with off-spin, so in that aspect he hasn't really enriched the art but has only shown a new facet to it, to gaze upon with wonder.

You said Murali record is great but would never accept his action. Just curious, forget all his records and the action controversy, for a moment.

1. How do you rate him just as a spinner?
2. Even before Hair called him for throwing, were you convinced by yourself that his action was not legitimate, the first time you saw him on TV?
3. Even assuming that his action is not legitimate, how blatant/atrociously out of whack it is in a scale of 1-10 (with 10 being the most atrocious/blatant), that you can't ignore this even for his exceptional spinning abilities (in case if you agree that he does have exceptional abilities)?

[Roshan]

aha idhu innum mudiyaleyA :fatigue:

I think plum nailed it well and Prabhu too had his share of arguments. IdhukkumEla idha paththi pEsuRathu - padikkiRathu waste of time.

:wave: to this topic..

[P_R]

Very sorry for being extremely judgemental here. No praablam.


1. How do you rate him just as a spinner? To answer out of turn, to me it is inseparable from his action.



2. Even before Hair called him for throwing, were you convinced by yourself that his action was not legitimate, the first time you saw him on TV? Oh yeah. The first time I saw him was in the '94 home series (where Kapil broke Hadlee's record). Or the one before when we went to SL when Kambli made a century. And I was uncomfortable rightaway with his bowling.

Well I was all of 10 then and so kinda immediately asked elders around the room. Looking back I thing most of the responses I got them was mazhuppal. Elders have to reconcile, make peace with what goes etc. Children don't.

I clearly remember the '95 test when he got called. I was thoroughly elated. It felt like having my personal discomfort validated officially. I was in my cousin's place then in Vizag (Xmas vacation) and started clapping loudly.

IIRC it was in the ODI series after that in January that Ranatunga made a big drama walking the team off the field. I was back home then and I had a heated argument with a friend- who was supporting Ranatunga for being 'brave', 'giving it back to the Aussies' etc. anRu sila iLa naTpugaLil virisal vizhundhadhu :lol2:


3. Even assuming that his action is not legitimate, how blatant/atrociously out of whack it is in a scale of 1-10 (with 10 being the most atrocious/blatant), that you can't ignore this even for his exceptional spinning abilities (in case if you agree that he does have exceptional abilities)?
The question does not arise MC.
You can't divorce his 'exceptional spinning abilities' from that action of his.


As a kid I used to hate him. But later understood that he is just a part of the system.

With the system as a given, he has indeed out of the way to prove himself as the team demands. Some of you find this itself convincing enough and his action per se is a moot point.

I can't quite see it that way.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

MC

Goodone :thumbsup:

[MADDY]

Very sorry for being extremely judgemental here. No praablam.

:lol:



1. How do you rate him just as a spinner? To answer out of turn, to me it is inseparable from his action.


3. Even assuming that his action is not legitimate, how blatant/atrociously out of whack it is in a scale of 1-10 (with 10 being the most atrocious/blatant), that you can't ignore this even for his exceptional spinning abilities (in case if you agree that he does have exceptional abilities)?
The question does not arise MC. You can't divorce his 'exceptional spinning abilities' from that action of his

:exactly: i cant see a murali beyond that action on the cricket field.....and yes, we have accepted him - big yes, even some of you who want him to fail against mumbai indians - well, i do want him to succeed for CSK always......

[Movie Cop]

1. How do you rate him just as a spinner? To answer out of turn, to me it is inseparable from his action.



3. Even assuming that his action is not legitimate, how blatant/atrociously out of whack it is in a scale of 1-10 (with 10 being the most atrocious/blatant), that you can't ignore this even for his exceptional spinning abilities (in case if you agree that he does have exceptional abilities)?
The question does not arise MC.
You can't divorce his 'exceptional spinning abilities' from that action of his.

As a kid I used to hate him. But later understood that he is just a part of the system.

With the system as a given, he has indeed out of the way to prove himself as the team demands. Some of you find this itself convincing enough and his action per se is a moot point.

I can't quite see it that way.
PR,
I was kind of able to get your stance w.r.t. Murali, based on some of your older posts in this thread. But this post helped to confirm my understanding on your take on Murali controversy.

Was primarily curious about the reason for Maddy's downright rejection of Murali. Seems like he also takes a similar "Hair/Emerson" stance like you. :)

[Plum]

I didn't notice. AdhAvadhu 10 vaasula feeyaar cricket rules ellAm karaichu kudichu expertA irundhappO he felt discomfort about murali's action? Nenachen. This confirms to me that opposition to murali is not basedon expert understanding of cricket rules but a 10 year old's perspective based on feeling and a bias rather than strict cricketing sense. In some cases, unlike feeyaar, adults thought lile a 10 year old w.r.t murali and developed hatred and antagonism. Adhukkappuram arguments are being retrofitted.

[Vivasaayi]

Plum,

one kostin....sorry if the argument has gone miles ahead

if you say hair's decission / englishmen who are against murali's action are motivated by other factors..

then I dont think you can say " accept the rules" - because the rules are made by the same "vellakarans" right?

[Vivasaayi]

I didn't notice. AdhAvadhu 10 vaasula feeyaar cricket rules ellAm karaichu kudichu expertA irundhappO he felt discomfort about murali's action?

Neenga yEn apd pakureenga..

adhu sirusarukka solloo .... endha vidha motivation biasum illadhirukka solla urucha kozhi.... appayum he thought his action was controversial

perusaruka solloo. cricket pathi nalla therinjapuram..actiona uruchi paakum podhum pr ku apdithan thonirukku

[Movie Cop]

I clearly remember the '95 test when he got called. I was thoroughly elated. It felt like having my personal discomfort validated officially. I was in my cousin's place then in Vizag (Xmas vacation) and started clapping loudly.

IIRC it was in the ODI series after that in January that Ranatunga made a big drama walking the team off the field. I was back home then and I had a heated argument with a friend- who was supporting Ranatunga for being 'brave', 'giving it back to the Aussies' etc. anRu sila iLa naTpugaLil virisal vizhundhadhu :lol2::lol:

Btw Dude,
One small correction. Ranatunga walking off the field etc. etc. ellam 3 yrs later ('98 - '99) tour, that is. During '95 tour, the moment Hair no-balled Murali for throwing, Murali was promptly sent back to SL and he took no further part in the rest of the series.

[P_R]

I didn't notice. AdhAvadhu 10 vaasula feeyaar cricket rules ellAm karaichu kudichu expertA irundhappO he felt discomfort about murali's action? Nenachen. This confirms to me that opposition to murali is not basedon expert understanding of cricket rules but a 10 year old's perspective based on feeling and a bias rather than strict cricketing sense. In some cases, unlike feeyaar, adults thought lile a 10 year old w.r.t murali and developed hatred and antagonism. Adhukkappuram arguments are being retrofitted.

jachin kooda dhaan enakku paththu vayasulayE pudikkin. adhaiyum unselect paNNirungaLEn. :lol2:

ippidi paarunga: paththu vayasu paiyyan, who has no political compulsions, politeness considerations etc. is closer to the truth than adults whose judgments are clouded on these counts.


KoNdaikAran: neeru konjam yOsichu paarum
MaNdaikAran: yOsichu paarthuttEn....panjAyathu nadandhE theerum

[P_R]

Btw Dude,
One small correction. Ranatunga walking off the field etc. etc. ellam 3 yrs later ('98 - '99) tour, that is. During '95 tour, the moment Hair no-balled Murali for throwing, Murali was promptly sent back to SL and he took no further part in the rest of the series.
Ah yeah. This was in Jan '98 right?
By then they were the waeld cup winning team. So matter over.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Pandavar Vs Kauravar sandai ennaum mudiyalaiya :shock: :lol2:

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Muttiah Muralidaran - A statistical tribute
The final of ICC Cricket World Cup 2011 is a fitting setting for Muttiah Muralidaran to take his leave of the international cricket stage. Having taken a total of 1347 wickets in all international cricket so far, he will be hoping to put even more daylight between himself and the chasing pack. Second-placed Shane Warne is the only other player with more than a thousand, and the leading other current player is Brett Lee with “only” 676. If Murali's total of wickets is unlikely to be broken, how has he performed in the Reliance Mobile ICC Player Rankings over the course of his long career?

Having made his Test debut in August 1992, his first three years brought him 81 wickets in 23 Tests at a respectable average of 33.88, but gave no real indication of the huge strides he was to make later in his career. However, 42 wickets in his next seven Tests propelled him to his first appearance in the top ten, which came in June 1997. At that time, the top four bowlers were all pacemen - Curtly Ambrose and Glenn McGrath led the way, tied on 861 points each, followed by Allan Donald and Wasim Akram. Murali had 715 points, but the only way was up from then onwards.

It was another five years before Murali first hit the top spot, after taking 9-51 and 4-64 against Zimbabwe at Kandy in January 2002. That first innings was the occasion when he nearly made cricket history. Having taken all nine Zimbabwe wickets to fall on the first day's play, he had Travis Friend dropped by Russel Arnold at silly-point the following morning to narrowly miss becoming just the third bowler to take all ten wickets in a Test innings.

That haul took him past Glenn McGrath at the top of the bowling rankings with a total of 907 points, and he scarcely dropped from the rarefied air of the 900-point mark for the next six and a half years. His peak came in July 2007 when he reached 920 points after taking 6-28 and 6-54 against Bangladesh at Kandy, a points tally only surpassed by three bowlers in the history of the game - Sydney Barnes, George Lohmann and Imran Khan. However, Murali's total set a new record for a spinner - going past Tony Lock's 912 points from 1958.

He spent a total of 1711 days as the top-rated Test bowler - a fair way down the list, but it should be noted that far more Test Matches are played now than in previous generations. This places him 13th on that particular list, which is headed by Bill O'Reilly - who had the Second World War to boost him up to 3643 days on top.

However, when we examine the number of Tests each bowler has spent in the number one position, Murali's total of 214 puts him on top. In fact the leading thee bowlers in this respect are all modern-day players, with Glenn McGrath (174 matches) and Curtly Ambrose (145 matches) filling the next two spaces on that list. By contrast, O'Reilly was top for just 24 matches.

Murali made his ODI debut a year after his first Test appearance and his first 21 matches brought just 19 wickets at a cost of 40 runs apiece. He came to the fore as Sri Lanka triumphed in ICC Cricket World Cup 1996 in the Subcontinent, and his star rapidly rose in the shorter form of the game at the same time. He first cracked the top ten in early 1997 during a successful series in Sharjah, and he spent the vast majority of the next 12 years in the world's top ten.

It was October 2000 when he first sneaked above Glenn McGrath and made it to top spot in the Reliance Mobile ICC Player Rankings for ODI bowlers. His figures of 7-30 against India at Sharjah were a world record for ODI cricket at the time and took him to 851 points. Two days later he took 3-6 in six overs against the same opposition to rise even further to 880 points, and he didn't move out of the top three for the next five years.

However, unlike his domination of the Test bowling rankings, this period provided a large amount of tussling for positions at the top. From the time Murali first reached number one to when he finally relinquished it in October 2004, a number of other bowlers also enjoyed top spot. In fact, that period could well be considered one of the golden eras of ODI bowling with the Sri Lankan maestro having to share the limelight with Shaun Pollock, Glenn McGrath and team-mate Chaminda Vaas.

Murali's peak points tally came in April 2002 when he had the astonishing figures of 10-3-9-5 against New Zealand at Sharjah. That performance propelled him up to 913 points, which is the fourth-highest achieved by anyone since ODI cricket started in 1971. Only Joel Garner (941), Richard Hadlee (924) and Shaun Pollock (917) have ever acquired more points, and by way of a comparison, today's top-ranked bowler Daniel Vettori has a total of 701.

Despite this fierce competition for the top spot, Murali spent a total of 244 matches and 731 days at the top ranked bowler in ODI cricket. Whereas these are a fair way behind the respective leaders in those fields - Shaun Pollock (844 matches) and Curtly Ambrose (2057 days) - this represents a massive contribution given that he hardly ever had the opportunity to enjoy the new ball.

By his own incredibly high standards, Murali's returns in One Day cricket in 2009 and 2010 were fairly modest, and it may have appeared as if his powers were somewhat on the wane as the effort of bowling more than 60 thousand deliveries in international cricket began to take its toll. But he roared back into action in ICC Cricket World Cup 2011 as 11 wickets in four matches helped Sri Lanka reach its third final.

It would only be fair to make a passing mention of his batting. Always unorthodox, but occasionally very effective, he boasts 1261 Test runs and even has a fifty to his name with an innings of 67 against India at Kandy in 2001. He never quite made it into the world's top 100 in Test cricket, peaking at 102nd late in his career in 2009 after an innings of 29 against India at Kanpur.

With fewer batting opportunities in ODI cricket, he peaked early in his career with 266 points and 112th position late in 1998. However, he was responsible for winning at least a couple of matches for Sri Lanka with the bat - notably against Bangladesh at Mirpur in early 2009 and against Australia at Melbourne in late 2010.

And so he takes his leave from the international stage as the top wicket-taker in both Test and One Day International cricket, will we ever see his like again? Possibly not, but one of the joys of cricket is that we never know quite what is around the corner and records are always there to be broken.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Only the Legendary Murali "Possible" ! :notworthy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q8m43-YLd4&feature=player_detailpage