The Unheard Years : Raja in the mid 90s

[Plum]

Plum,

Nice info. Yes, picturization could have been a problem for DD. Once I remember a Telugu song starring the actor Aamani, in a white dress in rain, which was probably 5 mins in duration was over in 2 mins!!! All cut.

[MERCILESS MICKEY TAKING]
Seems the disappointment has festered for years? ;-)
[/MERCILESS MICKEY TAKING]
]

[Sureshs65]

app,

Yes. I have read your post and I knew this was quite famous. Personally I think Janaki's singing is strained. The age just about starts to show here.

[Sureshs65]

Plum,

Not really because we ended up seeing the movie :) I remember it more because the way it was ruthlessly cut.

[rajeshkrv]

Song No: 16
Song: Thenral Katre
Film: Atharmam
Singers: Mano
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR0322'&lang=en

Songs about nature always seem to inspire music directors and lyricists. Raja has given us some wonderful tunes when it comes to nature. 'Sendhaazham Poovil' and 'Puththam Pudhu Kaalai' are two outstanding examples. This is a song about nature and the singer's interaction with nature. The song replicates perfectly 'thullum vellam', a flowing stream. As with the stream, which jumps with joy over the rocks that come which obstruct the way and flows with vigor in plains, the song too has these attributes. The whole pallavi is constructed that way. The high energy start, then the twist in the pallavi line which is similar to the streams jumping over rocks and a beautiful descent.

It is the first interlude chorus for which I will probably write half my yearly salary!!! Looks like he does some counterpoint with the voices. Again the same question: _why_ does he have to do it. If he had just let only the melody line proceed as it is, it would have given the folk flavor but he had to go and make some voice sing in the background enhancing the beauty. I do not know the technicalities but I guess that part would grammatically qualify as counterpoint. The jauntiness of the tune continues in the charanam with sudden twists and turns. Tabla proving wonderful support here.

Mano does a decent job in the song. The descending part towards the end of the pallavi and charanam are not easy but he gets them right. I had wrongly mentioned that 'muthu mani muthu mani' was from 'Athiradi Padai' in another place. DR pointed it out and I corrected it. 'muthu mani muthu mani' was from this movie. I am not sure if this was a major hit those days. As a comparison, in the same year we had 'Margazhi Poove' from "May Madham", which was a song on nature and was a major hit.

this will not feature as unheard because both muthu mani and thendral kaatre were played numerous times in SUN TV during those days . nice songs and great music by Raja & nice lyrics by vaali.

one valaigappu song i guess indirana pole sandhirana pole is also a fantastic # and can be termed as unheard

[kiru]

Song No: 16
Song: Thenral Katre
Film: Atharmam
Singers: Mano
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR0322'&lang=en

...

Somehow this song reminds me of the silu siluvena song from rajadhi raja (?). Awesome first interlude though .. why is it then the second interlude is very different ?

[kiru]

To me, Vanaja Girija is nothing but, 'Unnai Ethir Paarthaen'. It's truly a slow killer! This is one of the finest duets that Swarna sang. For almost half of the song, there is no SPB. When his turn comes, he just effortlessly demonstrates that he is the best in the business. One more track where he displays his 'mandhira kural'.

I like the way Raja has used violins in this track - very different from his usual contrapunctal arrangement. Peaceful co-existense of Raja's violins with the synthesizers! The choir arrangement in the pallavi and charanam along with the violins can just transport you out of this world. In the charanam, only the chorus is in the background for the first/last few bars along with the synthesizer.

The second interlude is just riveting and it strikes me as initially as synthesized violins followed by real ones. However, it's hard to guess which is real and which is not, given the technology.
Awesome.. awesome.. yes, looks most of the instruments are synth, but used very judiciously. Some kind of cello/viola backing in the pallavi gives a nice flavor. Structured like the simple, straight flow of the newer/younger MDs (another album like this is - siraichaalai). "slow killer" - apt term. These are the kind of songs which makes me tolerate any composition - good, bad and ugly from IR. Geniuses are measured not just by their consistency but also the heights they reach.
munnan seidha dhavam is very good too.. but little too much drumming(especially looped) for my taste. it will be a good test for bass for anybody's hifi stereo system.

[venkkiram]

Geniuses are measured not just by their consistency but also the heights they reach. கல்வெட்டில் பதிக்கப்பட்ட வேண்டிய வாக்கியம் இது.

:clap:

[Nerd]

Me too lazy to maintain a blog :oops:

In any case, links to posts on the 415 songs are in the spreadsheet and anyone who wants to read can straight jump into that by clicking each :-)
App - mayyam does a thing called archiving (check TF Archives section) and what they do is archive every single post into a single HTML document. When that happens, your Excel will become meaningless. Suggest you to either move the posts to a blog or request RR/NOV not to archive this particular thread. If you need our help, we can request them too to preserve your precious posts.

Munnam Seitha Thavam - Lovely lovely song but conrtary to others here, I d say its a good candidate for this *unheard* thread. It was not as popular as Unnai EthirpaarththEn. It was mildly popular but forgotten very quickly. And these kind of songs should not see that fate. Thanks again Sureshji.

[Bala (Karthik)]

Geniuses are measured not just by their consistency but also the heights they reach.
:exactly: :clap:

[app_engine]

App - mayyam does a thing called archiving (check TF Archives section) and what they do is archive every single post into a single HTML document. When that happens, your Excel will become meaningless.

nanRi Nerd, for the insight!

For now, I've started archiving my posts in a word file myself :-) Not with a view to blog or something like that, just as a backup...I feel tfmpage is my home on the web :-)

Will also petition to the mods / admin (but it looks like RR sir / NOV are unable to spend time for the IR Forum...just look at the rusted title of that thread :oops: )

[PARAMASHIVAN]

There was a peppy song by SPB in the Early 90's called "Oh baby O paavaiyO I Love you" , I cant find that song in google. If anyone knows the song pls post it here ? thanks

I don't think it is a IR composition!

[PARAMASHIVAN]

IMO the most underestimated song of IR in the 90's is album called "Inisai Mazhai" .

[Sureshs65]

kiru,

Thanks for the comments. I am quite OK with the looped nature of beats in 'munnam seidha thavam'. Infact the song I am going to post today will also have a beat loop and I will talk about such songs. And wonderful comment about genius. Raja was one who reached a high level and was consistent at that level.

rajesh,

Thanks for the info. I did not know that 'thendral katre' was popular. I had also put it in because I wanted to talk about this song in a different context.

Nerd,

Thanks for the comment. I think the song sort of vanished after the initial listen I think. Definitely deserves more exposure.

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 17
Song: Anjukejam Kanjipattu
Film: Raasamagan
Singers: SPB & Janaki
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR3029'&lang=en

Not sure how popular this song was. Am currently doing a small check before I decide if the song was popular. Checked on youtube and couldn't find the song when I searched for the film. I could only get 'kaathirundhen' and 'vaigasi vellikizhamai' from this film. So I think this song was not a great hit. I may be wrong though.

I selected this song to highlight the fact that in this year Raja did a decent number of songs which had a sort of 'looped' beat as the background. These were not store bought, as was the fashion those days but constructed by Raja and played on the drum machine. We earlier saw 'munnam seidha' song which had a similar incessant beat in the background. The other song from this movie, 'kathirundhen thaniye' also has a 'looped' beat. ('kathirundhen thaniye' is an outstanding song by all counts.) Similarly we have songs like 'muthu mani muthu mani' and 'malai kovil vasalil' in this year as well as a couple of more songs which I will talk about. What is not clear is if Raja used such 'looped' rhythm as a reaction to Rahman and later Deva's loops or it was a natural progression for Raja. I think there have been songs of Raja earlier as well where such continuous rhythm happened in the background.

The song starts with the beat. The tune is energetic at the same time peaceful. SPB ensures that he meets the paradoxical requirement of being high on energy and being soft at the same time. The first interlude has good interplay between flute and violin. The charanams are typical Raja with something like Brindavana Saranga revealing itself briefly. The second interlude also has good flute and violin sections. Overall a song which again makes you feel that this could have been more popular.

[San_K]

Anjukasam - Superb peppy song, definitly most popular song of Rasamagan beating Kathirunthen thaniye. Film bombed at BO but favourite song at recording centres which were like temple at that time where Raaja was god

[rajeshkrv]

Song No: 17
Song: Anjukejam Kanjipattu
Film: Raasamagan
Singers: SPB & Janaki
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR3029'&lang=en

Not sure how popular this song was. Am currently doing a small check before I decide if the song was popular. Checked on youtube and couldn't find the song when I searched for the film. I could only get 'kaathirundhen' and 'vaigasi vellikizhamai' from this film. So I think this song was not a great hit. I may be wrong though.

I selected this song to highlight the fact that in this year Raja did a decent number of songs which had a sort of 'looped' beat as the background. These were not store bought, as was the fashion those days but constructed by Raja and played on the drum machine. We earlier saw 'munnam seidha' song which had a similar incessant beat in the background. The other song from this movie, 'kathirundhen thaniye' also has a 'looped' beat. ('kathirundhen thaniye' is an outstanding song by all counts.) Similarly we have songs like 'muthu mani muthu mani' and 'malai kovil vasalil' in this year as well as a couple of more songs which I will talk about. What is not clear is if Raja used such 'looped' rhythm as a reaction to Rahman and later Deva's loops or it was a natural progression for Raja. I think there have been songs of Raja earlier as well where such continuous rhythm happened in the background.

The song starts with the beat. The tune is energetic at the same time peaceful. SPB ensures that he meets the paradoxical requirement of being high on energy and being soft at the same time. The first interlude has good interplay between flute and violin. The charanams are typical Raja with something like Brindavana Saranga revealing itself briefly. The second interlude also has good flute and violin sections. Overall a song which again makes you feel that this could have been more popular.

suresh
thanks for the song. This was also quite popular . the best of Rasamagan was "Kaathirundhen thaniye " by Chandrasekar(AMRaja's son) & lekha and it should definitely feature in unheard

[Sureshs65]

Thanks San_K and rajesh. Will feature 'kaathirundhen' in the series soon.

[venkkiram]

செந்தூரம் படத்திலிருந்து "ஆலமரம் மேலமரும் பச்ச பசுங்கிளியே!" -

சுரேஷ் இந்தப் பாடலை நீங்க கேட்டு எழுதணும். உன்னிகிருஷ்ணன்- பவதாரிணி குரல்களில் அருமையான பாடல்.

[venkkiram]

the best of Rasamagan was "Kaathirundhen thaniye " by Chandrasekar(AMRaja's son) & lekha and it should definitely feature in unheardகாத்திருந்தேன் தனியே பாடல் - அஞ்சுகஜம் காஞ்சிப்பட்டு போலவே புகழ் பெற்றது என நினைக்கிறேன். ரேடியோவில் நேயர்களால் கேட்கப்பட்டு ஒலிக்கப்பட்டிருக்கிறது.

[Devaraagam]

Suresh ji anjukejam was the popular number in raagamagan.p but kaathirunthen was the familiar and liked from so called IR fans. Now I remember that myself and friend went to Veera did not get ticket so went to raagamagan, whie came back another friend got ticket for Veera so got into Veera


Anjukejam got familiar because of sun tv and sivaranani ( not raaga)

[Devaraagam]

Cun not remember any such song....give me some clue or references -for param on SPB 90s song

[Sureshs65]

Venki,

Noted. Will definite write about it when I come to its year of release. Thanks for the suggestion.

DR,

Thanks for the info. So both 'kaathirundhen' and 'anju kajam' were famous if I go by what I hear. A friend of mine on twitter, who was a Sivaranjani fan, said that her fans knew this song !!

[app_engine]

Thanks for the info. So both 'kaathirundhen' and 'anju kajam' were famous if I go by what I hear.

Sureshji,
ippidiyE pOykkittirundhA I wonder if the final count of pamous ones of IR for 1994 will exceed the count of hits for any other MD in 1994 :roll:

[rajeshkrv]

kathirundhen was not as famous as Anju gajam or Vaikasi (spb solo).yes it was aired in radio but TV channels played anju and vaikasi more than kathirundhen..

[baroque]

my local Cable Wala (remember they also have their own channel!) used to play KAATHIRUNDHEN THANIYE... often!

RAGAM- MOHANA KALYANI!

pillan govie...purandharadasa's composition is my favorite!

A composition in praises on Sringeri deity Sharadhambal- SANGEETHA SAMRAJYA SANCHARINI....சங்கீத சாம்ராஜ்ய சஞ்சாரிணி ஷ்ரிங்கார ஸ்ரிங்கேரீ புரவாஸினி ......:musicsmile:

[baroque]

Sureshji,
ippidiyE pOykkittirundhA I wonder if the final count of pamous ones of IR for 1994 will exceed the count of hits for any other MD in 1994 :roll:


which is a good thing for us to realize!

Some us crib about little things still we enjoy/embrace/curious whatever Raja is offering ! There is no place to go or no person to give refuge , ராசாவை விட்டா நாதி இல்லை....! :-D

[ravinat]

Kaathirunthaen Thaniye - I always associate this song with Raja's Misra Chapu. The man meticulously maintains the rhythm throughout the song.

BTW, Raja always uses Chandra and Lekha together - even in Pazhassi Raja, I think Odathandil is sang by them. Does anyone know why this is so?

[jaiganes]

Cun not remember any such song....give me some clue or references -for param on SPB 90s song
if you are replying to paramashivan - he does not know that he is looking for the "oh paapalo" fun song from telugu movie "sambhavam" *ing nagarjuna and amala - directed by Priyadharshan - a remake of a mallu movie - a remake of englipeesh movie "stakeout"...

[AravindMano]

There was a peppy song by SPB in the Early 90's called "Oh baby O paavaiyO I Love you" , I cant find that song in google. If anyone knows the song pls post it here ? thanks

I don't think it is a IR composition!

It is. Here. http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR3212'&lang=en

Very popular in Telugu, from 'Nirnayam' movie.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Anjukasam - Superb peppy song, definitly most popular song of Rasamagan beating Kathirunthen thaniye. Film bombed at BO but favourite song at recording centres which were like temple at that time where Raaja was god

Yes superb song. so was "Vaikasi vellikizahma thaanE" :)

[PARAMASHIVAN]

It is. Here. http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR3212'&lang=en

Very popular in Telugu, from 'Nirnayam' movie.

Thank you very much :)

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 18
Song: Aasai Idhayam
Film: Kanmani
Singers: Janaki, Malaysia Vasudevan
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR1480'&lang=en

(Thanks to Rajesh for providing lyricist info.) I hope no one says that this was also a hit :D I found out from twitter that the ' netru vandha katru' song was composed by Karthik Raja and he later used it in the Hindi film, 'Grahan'. So I am not taking that song as Raja's.

This song has a tribal beat and at the same time is a very peaceful song. The beat is also out of sync with the tune but as in all Raja songs nothing is out of sync !!! The singing by Malaysia and Janaki is upto their usual level. What I find surprising in these years is that Malaysia was seen less in Raja's songs. Especially when there were folks songs which he must have sung but instead went to Arunmozhi. His voice in this song is still good. The first interlude has a lovely piano backing for the folk flute. The charanam as usual is very melodious. The second interlude is outstanding, especially the first part of it. What a concept, especially the piano strains.

Don't know much about the movie. Hoping our regulars like Rajesh, DR and co will provide the details. Was it released? Did it run etc?

[venkkiram]

More than radio converage, Kaaththirunthen thaniye was telecasted in SUN TV/Music late night section for Sivaranjani during late 90's and early 2000's , IIRC. Watchers can confirm.

[Devaraagam]

Suresh ji, its a nice one but my fav was o...en deva devi...3 people kalakal is that song...SPB , swarna and minmin I believe ....


This movie was not hit but few songs were some what popular like netru vantha and udal thazhuva, busley J busley (amazing beat and wonderful guitar usage)

[Devaraagam]

Lyric mostly by valee...let's check

[Sureshs65]

Vinutha,

Thanks. Hope you are enjoying the songs

Venki,

A few friends on twitter said that they did see 'kathirudhen' for Sivaranjani :)

app,

I think though you said that as a joke, when I see the statistics, it may turn out to be a reality. I think from a pure no:of hits perspective Raja in 1994 may have had more hits than other composers. But it is different when the metric is about the quality of hit ("Whether it was in the top 3 of the countdowns etc) and the %of hits against the songs composed. But it is definitely true that lot of Raja tunes of 1994 are still well known and are part of Raja fans playlist.

[Sureshs65]

DR,

Yes, I did hear both those songs and they are good. Loved 'Busile'. Very different construction. If I get a chance will put that up later.

[baroque]

You are doing good , Suresh! :)

thanks.

[app_engine]

the quality of hit ("Whether it was in the top 3 of the countdowns etc)

As the year had Veera, which was as big as any of the competitor's hits (I mean patti-thotti-citi and not simply Chennai-CBE), IR was not too much behind in such countdown stuff too. (Though not anymore in his old position - i.e. 1st rank to 10th rank with all others only after that kind, in 90-91)

Probably things were worse in 95 & 96. pOgappOga pAkkalAm :-)

[ravinat]

Aasai Idhayam uses the bass drum throughout the song along and the flute bit in the first interlude is something only someone who is as skilled as Raja can fit it into this framework.

I covered this song in one of my blogposts: http://geniusraja.blogspot.ca/2009/08/rajas-rhythm-innovation-stage-6.html

BTW, I have indicated that Vennilavil Maligaiyil uses Vibraslap in this post. After hearing and playing with guiro, I am convinced that it is vibraslap and not the guiro.

Here is how the vibraslap sounds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJpT2Kn-jfc


Sorry about the wrong information I provided earlier...

[Sureshs65]

Superb writeup Ravi. Nice to know the details about the instruments. That's my weak point. I have read this post when you had posted but totally forgot about this song.

[baroque]

During 95 and 96
vendina vendum varam....
oru chinna manikuyil.... from katta panchayaththu are popular!
Yaarum kekkama sollalai, Bhava's immature- ங்கங்க மிங்க...singing Kettudhaan solranga, terrible nnu...:irked:
So hit, popular etc..doesn't matter for some of us!:-D
oththa rooba....Nattupura pattu
melooru maaman...makkalatchi
vandhaal vandhaal....
kolangal compositions couple of them are popular!

they are non-SPB compositions!

[baroque]

Ravi, thanks for bringing your thoughts on the featured composition!

en deva.....Bala pathos mood was familiar to me!

[rajeshkrv]

Song No: 18
Song: Aasai Idhayam
Film: Kanmani
Singers: Janaki, Malaysia Vasudevan
Lyrics:?? (Need your help guys)
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR1480'&lang=en

I hope no one says that this was also a hit :D I found out from twitter that the ' netru vandha katru' song was composed by Karthik Raja and he later used it in the Hindi film, 'Grahan'. So I am not taking that song as Raja's.

This song has a tribal beat and at the same time is a very peaceful song. The beat is also out of sync with the tune but as in all Raja songs nothing is out of sync !!! The singing by Malaysia and Janaki is upto their usual level. What I find surprising in these years is that Malaysia was seen less in Raja's songs. Especially when there were folks songs which he must have sung but instead went to Arunmozhi. His voice in this song is still good. The first interlude has a lovely piano backing for the folk flute. The charanam as usual is very melodious. The second interlude is outstanding, especially the first part of it. What a concept, especially the piano strains.


Don't know much about the movie. Hoping our regulars like Rajesh, DR and co will provide the details. Was it released? Did it run etc?

yes movie was released so was the song.
Very nice song ..
There was another song by Mano & Minmini "Udal thazhuva thazhuva nazhuvi ponathe" mindblowing music by Raja .

Lyrics for kanmani were by vaali

[rajeshkrv]

suresh
my requests (cannot be listed as unheard but not aired frequently)
1. kannan vanthathale nanmai vandhadhu from thambi pondatti . bful song by Uma Ramanan

2. Anbe vaa anbennum venba sonnnen vaa from dharama seelan (thendral varum munne munne from the same movie as well)

3. Kaatru poovai paarthu kooratho i love u .. very nice song from i love india

4. Vanna chindhu vandhu vilayadum from kovil kalai (mano & janaki) beautiful song

5. oru kola kili sonnathe from pon vilangu

6. kallathanamaga kannam veitha from ulle veliye

7. unnai ninaikkatha neramillai from thanga kili

8. ammamma unnai pole from Sadhu (oor ariya per edutha was a great hit)

9. Kanne inru kalyana kathia from Aanazhagan

10. Maruthani chaaru from ilayaragam

11. oru kootil chinna kokilam irandu from kolangal

few movies might not be 1994 though

[Sureshs65]

rajesh,

Thanks for the lyrics input. I will update the post.

I have added all the songs into my list. I will put them up when the appropriate year comes up.

I heard 'udal thazhuva thazhuva' for the first time when listening to 'Kanmani' songs. Amazing song, as you say. I saw a youtube video, so wasn't sure how big a hit was (or not). So chose this song instead.

[Sureshs65]

app,

'Veera' was an undoubted hit musically. Since it was a hit in far away Hyderabad as well, I am not including any song from the movie here. As you say, we will find out how things fare as we proceed along the years :)

[Gregorysab]

I heard 'udal thazhuva thazhuva' for the first time when listening to 'Kanmani' songs. Amazing song, as you say.

I like this song a lot. But I have a small doubt. I have a strong feeling that the female singer (Minmini) is singing in apasruthi.. particularly her opening lines. I get a feeling that she is going offkey massively. Compare it with Mano, who is effortlessly in place, i feel she kind of screwed it up. Can you listen and confirm.

[udebaqifoz]

The song replicates perfectly 'thullum vellam', a flowing stream. As with the stream, which jumps with joy over the rocks that come which obstruct the way and flows with vigor in plains, the song too has these attributes. The whole pallavi is constructed that way. The high energy start, then the twist in the pallavi line which is similar to the streams jumping over rocks and a beautiful descent.

It is the first interlude chorus for which I will probably write half my yearly salary!!! Looks like he does some counterpoint with the voices. Again the same question: _why_ does he have to do it.

To just take it a little forward, the chorus seems to take the stream to a descent down the mountain :musicsmile: Lovely, lovely song. Also, the end of the charanam sounds a wee bit familiar to Uchan Thala Uchiyile no? Or is it just me?

Vetri Namadhu sounds like a song on steroids :) the drums and the ragam quite reminds me of Bharadha Samudaayam Vaazhgave from Bharathi.
Munnam Seidha Thavam issa louly too. The violins in the charanams, filling in a tune which has an unending flow to it, saying hi every time. Only Raaja can conceive this.
Aasai Idhayam. Tune is very quirky. What a first interlude! Tribal beats indeed. The rhythms reflect that. But the tune in the charanam almost is WCM level, quite like Oh Butterfly. Whattey!

All songs are going to my playlist :victory:

[Sureshs65]

Vinutha,

Yes, I think there will be enough Raja hits moving forward as well

Aakarsh,

Minmini seems to have had some breathing problems. In some of the songs she sang later, you can clearly hear her grasping for breath. I heard she had to undergo a throat operation and all. Now I think she is trying a comeback after having almost lost her voice.

VG,

Yes, all songs are in my playlist now as well.

[Gregorysab]

Aakarsh,

Minmini seems to have had some breathing problems. In some of the songs she sang later, you can clearly hear her grasping for breath. I heard she had to undergo a throat operation and all. Now I think she is trying a comeback after having almost lost her voice.



Could be! But in that particular song, i feel she was going (heavily) offkey. Was wondering - Is it only me feeling so? or was she really? what do you think? Mano seems to be perfectly in control of the sur, but not her!

[Sureshs65]

Aakarsh,

I think it has to do with her breathing. She is definitely struggling.

[ravinat]

Udal Thazhuva Thazhuva is a song that has orchestration of that particular time - marriage of the synthesizer with the guitar. Just observe the prelude of this song (please do not hear the audio on youtube - it's plain horrible) - some of this type of work was refined in Nandalala later on (Mella Oorndhu Oorndhu). Raja uses two synthesizers and a guitar in the prelude very well. The part of this song, I always remember is the transition between the charanam and the pallavi - this is a typical IR-RDB combo style Raja has used in very few songs - guitar strumming followed by a quick set of conga taps. The conga taps always remind me of the RDB signature. Minmini's voice was so different from her ARR song in Roja. She appears totally out of form.

[Sureshs65]

Thanks to ravi and Aakarsh, I am sure everyone is checking out 'udal thazhuva thazhuva'. Lovely song it is. Must have been more famous.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

superb song , really a moving one ! Only SPB possible! This song was not talked much in the SPB + IR thread, hence I am posting it here ! :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcKuPbjkNg&feature=player_detailpage

[skr]

Listened to Aasai Idhayam just now for the first time ..
The melody seems a bit simple but what catches the ear at first is the odd tribal beat which seems to go in Tisram pattern ..

Janaki especially has done a brilliant rendition as evidently fossible only by her..
The first interlude is a stunner laced with wonderful folk flute trills (Trills are rapid alterations between 2 successive notes) to be followed up by the broken chords ..Oh so louly..:musicsmile:
This interlude elevates the song to vera level ..:thumbsup:

You have some fantastic flute trills again in the second interlude with the piano strains giving apt company..
The Charanams as VG said are top notch..

When i listened to the Pallavi , i didnt expect anything great in the later part of the song ..How wrong i was..
Guess its not possible to write off any Raja song just like that ..Some surprise is stored somewhere :)
There is always some element in almost every song of his which make you go wow..
Underestimate any Raaja song at your own peril..

Serves a good lesson for all of us (including me) who are underestimating NEPV songs by just listening to a paltry 30 seconds :D

[baroque]

:)

yeah...suresh, Pattu Vaathyar's IR with Yesudas, Swarna classical delights are mesmerizing!
Kolangal's Chithra compositions, Deepangal pesidum......Devathai etc.. are waiting for you!

You will enjoy your trip to mid 90s Ilayaraja's compositions!

jamaiyungo! :-D

[Sureshs65]

skr,

Yes, we will gain a lot as we go along.

vinutha,

Waiting eagerly for 'Kolangal' Already Aakarsh and skr have given request :)

[baroque]

:)

yeah...

I am VINATHA! :-D

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Apart from the Aasai Ithayam and the Famous "Netru vantha Kaatru" there are 2 more songs which can be taken into the unheard 90s - Udal thazhuva & Oh en Dheva deviye

http://thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs=%27SNGIRR1485%27,%27SNGIRR1487%2 7&lang=en

Udal thazhuva has Charanams which will seem like keep changing and surprising. Also the 2nd interlude will be very different!

Oh en Dheva deviye - has great singing from Swarnalatha and the Tune also is a nice one.

This 2, along with the Aasai Ithayam & "Netru vantha Kaatru" are surely essential candidates for Music channels and FM. Don't know if they are being aired

[Sureshs65]

One question to folks here: Which songs of 'Veetla Visheshanga' were famous? I think I have heard 'Konjam Sangeetham' and 'Malare Thenral Paadum' What about the other songs:

The list of songs is here: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.php?ALBID=ALBIRR00720&lang=en

[Devaraagam]

One question to folks here: Which songs of 'Veetla Visheshanga' were famous? I think I have heard 'Konjam Sangeetham' and 'Malare Thenral Paadum' What about the other songs:

The list of songs is here: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.php?ALBID=ALBIRR00720&lang=en

Suresh, poonkuil rendu was not much popular and otherwise bus than ptc, Jintha ji ukku, malarey, konjam sangeetham were famous

[Sureshs65]

Thanks DR

[San_K]

Suresh, poonkuil rendu was not much popular and otherwise bus than ptc, Jintha ji ukku, malarey, konjam sangeetham were famous


Ok. I shut off, I want to hear Suresh words about my most favorite song of this album, Poonkuyil rendu :)

[Sureshs65]

Sanjeevi,

LOL :) I guess going by DR's statement, I will need to select that only :)

[P_R]

One question to folks here: Which songs of 'Veetla Visheshanga' were famous? I think I have heard 'Konjam Sangeetham' and 'Malare Thenral Paadum' What about the other songs:

The list of songs is here: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.php?ALBID=ALBIRR00720&lang=en
Konjam sangeetham was the most popular

jindhAn jinukku dhaan
Bus dhaan PTC

were next

[baroque]

aamaam.... konjam sangeeetham, indha bus thaan ptc were popular!

malare thendral paadum gaanam idhu.....is a soulful pathos!

Mid 90s, IR was using Arun mozhi, Unni, Hari and himself for male vocals!

there is a movie PERIYA MARUDHU.
it's vidala pulla nesaththukku.... was heard often! swarna's solo!

[Sureshs65]

In 1994, I am not going to consider the following films:

'Sathiyavan': All songs are from a Telugu movie of late 80s or early 90s
'Thenral Varum Theru': I heard the music was released in 1992. Since we are looking at Raja's music post 92, we will skip it
'Senthamizh Selvan': I heard this is from Raja and MSV. Generally in this combination max tunes are by MSV. So we will not include it in Raja's account

Other than these three, I will ensure we cover atleast one song per film except for 'Veera', where all songs were hit.

[jaiganes]

sathyavaan was raj kapoor directing murali - essentially a remake of rajendra prasad movie where he lies habitually.
funny thing was that "Chiththira sevvaanam" classic song from "Kaatril varum geetham" was reused in telugu and
raj kapoor gets it promptly rerecorded..

[Devaraagam]

Hope you are considering sakthivel,sethupathi IPS,magalir mattum, mahanadhi and vietnaam colony?

[V_S]

I want to hear Suresh words about my most favorite song of this album, Poonkuyil rendu :)
+1. My most favorite too from this album. Brilliant one by Maestro and as far as I know it was popular like Konjam Sangeetham.

[Sureshs65]

DR,

I have already put songs from Sakthivel and Sethupathi IPS. Will put up songs from VC and MM soon.

[Sureshs65]

Jai,

Ah yes. It was 'April 1 Vidudhala', the Rajendra Prasad movie. Vamshi directed it in Telugu. Don't know how it was received in Tamil. In Telugu the main attraction was the Godavari dialect in the movie and ofcourse Rajendra Prasad's comic timing. Don't know which dialect they used in Tamil. And ofcourse I don't think Murali would have matched Rajendra Prasad's timing or comic sense.

[rajeshkrv]

suresh one more request
"ovvoru pakkam ovvoru mutham
" from walter vetrivel by swarnalatha. did not feature in the movie but a brilliant song by Raja and gr8 vocals by Swarnalatha

[irir123]

Konjam sangeetham was the most popular

jindhAn jinukku dhaan
Bus dhaan PTC

were next


oh no, not the "bus dhaan PTC" !!

P_R, you just opened an old wound - hurts !

indha punidhamaana paattula (IR at the heights of 'apaswaram') 'aalaappaaru thola paaru, supero superrrrrrrrr' - appadeendra line varumbadhu, yengalukku kannula thanneer varum ! gulping down the inevitable fear that perhaps IR was losing it (I think it was around that time ARR was beginning to make waves)

second interlude - IR at an all-time low - the 'dagudu dattaan' chorus in full swing followed by the golden line 'kulikkira arayula valukki puttaney' which gets better with 'iduppu sulukku poyiruchu, adutha sulukku vandhuruchu' - the agony we experienced when we first heard this track, was unrelenting!

my friends used to say (naa thazhu thazhukka) - 'ennadaa, motta ippadi pottu padutthi thalluraaru ? sappa paattunga dei'

the only consolation - it was for K.Bhagyaraj who had already lost it then and was desperate for a hit and came scrambling to IR with an uninspiring plot

[baroque]

What do you mean 'Raja at the hts of abaswaram'?
Raja kku ella swarams are right swaram dhaan!
that particular phrase, sur doesn't sound harmonious to you vaa?

[irir123]

for a HCIRF, a track like 'intha bus thaan PTC' is trash - period!

adha thaan sollavanthaen - my friends circle la ullavanga, innum nirayya ketta varthaigala (inga unreproducible) prayojanappadutthi vivarippaaanga!

naan konjam polite aa 'adhu oru kuppa paattu'nnu mudichhukkittaen!

IR rangeukky appadi thaan!

most other composers works - indha madhiri aazhamaa theeviramaa, analyse pandradhu kidayaadhu - coz, IMHO, those works are simply not worth the trouble!

[baroque]

mmm...

you post about WCM-Vocabularies, chorus harmony etc...so I was curious. ( I listen to the track this evening!)

You may find other composers works not worth pondering :( sorry!
but there are people out there marvel from C.Ramachandra's eena meena..... to Rahman's Indira kids composition with equal enthu!
Our thread host Suresh65 himself one of them!

so..if you excuse, I just checked out ,
ஆடி போனா ஆவணி அவ ஆள மயக்கும் தாவணி ..:bluejump:
loving it - non-ilayaraja new song!:)

[Sureshs65]

rajesh,

Thanks for the Walter Vetrivel info. Will put up the song soon.

irir123,

I was looking for some reaction like this, for it was clear that during those years, when Rahman had started dominating the charts, Raja's fans were feeling a bit let down. Can you elaborate a bit more on why you didn't like the song? You have said lyrics, which is probably what Bhagyaraj make have requested. Around the same time, we had 'Urvasi Urvasi' from 'Kadhalan', which as you know was a superhit. Given that both these are 'fun' songs and the lyrics in the 'Urvasi' song is also 'tanglish', did you like that song? If you did, what did you think was the difference between these two songs?

If you promise not be break communication with me, let me say that I love this song :D They lyrics are definitely cheesy but the tune has superb energy. I haven't heard it when it was released but when I hear it now, I am honestly thrilled. The rhythm Raja generates and the energy level he keeps up is very typical of him. Well, I can understand people not liking this and feeling these type of songs are something Raja shouldn't be doing. I have had this discussion with Aakarsh as well since he doesn't like a few 'teen maar' or 'kuthu' songs from movies like 'Shambu' , 'Shiv Shankar', 'Sunny' etc but I love them all :D

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 19
Song: Enakku Ulladhellam
Film: Vietnam Colony
Singer: Swarnalatha
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR4064'&lang=en

This film is a personal endorsement of how effective Rahman's grip was on popular imagination in those times and how much his sound made a difference. I have seen this movie but except for 'Samikku Naan Poo Parika' song with its 'narayana narayana', I remembered nothing else until Jai sometime back pointed to a couple of songs in this movie, including 'margazhi masam'. Even 'kaiyil veenai' did not register then. It came during the titles and somehow I was not too impressed. During those time, we were expecting Raja would change his 'sound' but in this movie he was sounding the same. It was disappointing when we watched and I just could not appreciate the songs then. The movie was a nice one, with Gounder in absolutely rocking form. His interaction with Manorama is howlarious.

As I listen to them now, I sort of shrug my shoulders and say, "Well, everyone makes mistakes". Slowly 'Kaiyil Veenai' picked up speed in later years and I see it sung in competitions, while 'smaikku' is not heard often. Today's song is the one which impressed me the most. I had posted about this in twitter and Aakarsh had replied that this was his favorite song too because of the unique rhythm. The song is both 'peaceful' and innovative. Most of the orchestration is using the synthesizer. The charanams, with the flute having a constant dialog with the voice and with its twists and turns is charming. You just cannot predict how the tune will flow in the charanam. Added to all this was Swarnalatha. What a voice and what a delivery. Inch perfect. I could easily add this song to the best songs she has sung though this one is not as famous as others. The second interlude, again mostly on the synth, is very well constructed.

This has been on my playlist since I heard it around a year or more back. I am not sure if this song appeared in the movie or not. That is how much I remember the songs of the movie !!

[Devaraagam]

Suresh,

you are correct. when the audio was released even I did not give much attention to the songs as nothing was impressed me and later "samikittey Naan" was impressed only the pallavi.

After long gap when I was posting song of the Day, to post "saamikittey Naan" I started listening the songs and lost myself into all the songs and the complete album were in my play list and played it on loop for long time.

This is one of the album gave message to me that do not decide and ignore Raja sir songs at any point of time and any situation. You will feel it during your life time on its beauty so buy and keep it with you.

[Sureshs65]

DR,

Very well said. My biggest regret in life is that I was in Chennai from 95-98 and in these three years, I had bought the least number of tapes / CDs of Raja :( if only, like now, I had bought every tape/CD that was released !!

[baroque]

DR,

Very well said. My biggest regret in life is that I was in Chennai from 95-98 and in these three years, I had bought the least number of tapes / CDs of Raja :( if only, like now, I had bought every tape/CD that was released !!

I was living at Bangalore - Chennai during 94 - 97 too!
I searched for THALATTU KETKUDHAMMA, ADHARMAM,PERIYAMARUDHU ETC...tapes, cds!
I was not lucky to find.
But I have few songs in some assorted collection Cds.

**********************

ORVASI ORVASI...KADHALAN
Poet Vairamuthu's positive outlook composition!
He is suggesting that don't get depressed over life's upsets!
just move on....
Kavingar Vairamuthu has positive and practical outlook for life!:thumbsup:

வாழ்க்கையில் வெல்லவே take it easy policy ...:) WISE MAN!
Move forward...please!


I will return back for your song offer of today.....
thanks, Suresh65.

Vinatha

[irir123]

rajesh,

Thanks for the Walter Vetrivel info. Will put up the song soon.

irir123,

I was looking for some reaction like this, for it was clear that during those years, when Rahman had started dominating the charts, Raja's fans were feeling a bit let down. Can you elaborate a bit more on why you didn't like the song? You have said lyrics, which is probably what Bhagyaraj make have requested. Around the same time, we had 'Urvasi Urvasi' from 'Kadhalan', which as you know was a superhit. Given that both these are 'fun' songs and the lyrics in the 'Urvasi' song is also 'tanglish', did you like that song? If you did, what did you think was the difference between these two songs?

If you promise not be break communication with me, let me say that I love this song :D They lyrics are definitely cheesy but the tune has superb energy. I haven't heard it when it was released but when I hear it now, I am honestly thrilled. The rhythm Raja generates and the energy level he keeps up is very typical of him. Well, I can understand people not liking this and feeling these type of songs are something Raja shouldn't be doing. I have had this discussion with Aakarsh as well since he doesn't like a few 'teen maar' or 'kuthu' songs from movies like 'Shambu' , 'Shiv Shankar', 'Sunny' etc but I love them all :D




Why would I break communication with you on the basis of what you like/dont like and that too over a song ??! comedy pannaadheenga!

'bus thaan ptc' IMHO is a rank bad song from IR's stable, irrespective of the timeframe (ARR factor), or the fact that 'Urvasi' was a hit ! even if 'urvasi' was a flop song, and had better lyrics, and it was a hit song with better lyrics, that would make no difference to my perception that 'bus thaan ptc' is a mokkai song!

it has nothing to do with lyrics alone - that anyway is not IR's dept - it is the choice of the motif/melody or lack of it - as simple as that - and quite pedestrian by IR's standards - the 'dagudu dattaan' chorus wud not have been Bhagyaraj's specific request - its IR's handiwork - which shows a certain lack of 'aesthetic care' that IR shows every now and then in his works - maybe its lack of inspiration that did it - but if those interludes had at least been IR's standards (strings, guitar riffs, brasswork), then those elements would have salvaged some of the lost efforts - but as a whole, for me the song sucks! in fact i wudnt even call it a song!

btw, on a slightly unrelated note, a friend of mine (a ARR fan newbee) played 'May Maadham' to me & i totally trashed 'paalakattu machaanukku' track saying you dont need a composer for such a track - below ordinary stuff!

so the standard applies to everyone - and when it comes to IR, the bar is set very high! as simple as that

just that you know - there are some veteran hubbers, who would tell me:

1. IR's music post 1987, lost that deep - sounding bassy feel even in the tabla section of his tracks! (i think a former hubber by the name "Eden" came up with this - and many others agree to it- but not me, even though i have some major issues with lots of IR's works in Tamil in the 1990s)

2. some major changes in the bass section of his tracks post-1987 - these two factors have contributed to loss of the ambient feel and thus the 'soul' inherent in his eariler compositions!

3.tracks like 'ennai thaalaatta varuvalo' are totally dissed by many HCIRFans ! Viswa (he used to work for Motorola - lost touch with him after 1998) was a HCIRF vehemently critical of many IR works in the 1990s!

4. surprisingly, almost all the HCIRFs were /are very appreciative of IR's works in malayalam around the same time!

needless to say, this section of HCIRFs wont go anywhere near other contemporary composers works!

[rajeshkrv]

Song No: 19
Song: Enakku Ulladhellam
Film: Vietnam Colony
Singer: Swarnalatha
Lyrics: Panju Arunachalam
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR4064'&lang=en

This film is a personal endorsement of how effective Rahman's grip was on popular imagination in those times and how much his sound made a difference. I have seen this movie but except for 'Samikku Naan Poo Parika' song with its 'narayana narayana', I remembered nothing else until Jai sometime back pointed to a couple of songs in this movie, including 'margazhi masam'. Even 'kaiyil veenai' did not register then. It came during the titles and somehow I was not too impressed. During those time, we were expecting Raja would change his 'sound' but in this movie he was sounding the same. It was disappointing when we watched and I just could not appreciate the songs then. The movie was a nice one, with Gounder in absolutely rocking form. His interaction with Manorama is howlarious.

As I listen to them now, I sort of shrug my shoulders and say, "Well, everyone makes mistakes". Slowly 'Kaiyil Veenai' picked up speed in later years and I see it sung in competitions, while 'smaikku' is not heard often. Today's song is the one which impressed me the most. I had posted about this in twitter and Aakarsh had replied that this was his favorite song too because of the unique rhythm. The song is both 'peaceful' and innovative. Most of the orchestration is using the synthesizer. The charanams, with the flute having a constant dialog with the voice and with its twists and turns is charming. You just cannot predict how the tune will flow in the charanam. Added to all this was Swarnalatha. What a voice and what a delivery. Inch perfect. I could easily add this song to the best songs she has sung though this one is not as famous as others. The second interlude, again mostly on the synth, is very well constructed.

This has been on my playlist since I heard it around a year or more back. I am not sure if this song appeared in the movie or not. That is how much I remember the songs of the movie !!

Vietnam colony ella padalgalum kavingar vaali no panju in it

[rajeshkrv]

add to request from mayabazar 1995 ... Adada ange vilayadum pulli maane by jolly abraham.. nice one too

[V_S]

Very nice pick Suresh ji. Thanks. I think I only faintly remember this song. Definitely remember Maargazhi maasam and Kaiyil Veenai. This song is such a delight to hear. Listening to the whole soundtrack now. Nice to hear Maestro using some new synthesizer sounds. Hooked to Yennamo Sollla.

[baroque]

:ty: for you pick.


Other than mega masterpieces of Ilayaraja
aatamaa therottamaa.....
ennulle ennulle.....
:thumbsup:

soulful melodies by IR-Swarna I melt this period are

kuyil pattu....
adi aasai machaan vangi thandha...
oorellam un pattuthaan...
muthu muthu muthaarandhaan...

kuyil pattu... en raasavin manasile is very profound!
melodious flute-ilayaraja.

oorellam un pattuththaan....earnest alapana of Swarna with pathos violin

I connect with the above compositions emotionally!:musicsmile: That I call Raja pattu.... I melt,weep,fly in happiness with him!:-D

let me pick one of my favorite from the above list along with your offer to feel complete!

[Devaraagam]

I was living at Bangalore - Chennai during 94 - 97 too!
I searched for THALATTU KETKUDHAMMA, ADHARMAM,PERIYAMARUDHU ETC...tapes, cds!
I was not lucky to find.
But I have few songs in some assorted collection Cds.

**********************

ORVASI ORVASI...KADHALAN
Poet Vairamuthu's positive outlook composition!
He is suggesting that don't get depressed over life's upsets!
just move on....
Kavingar Vairamuthu has positive and practical outlook for life!:thumbsup:

வாழ்க்கையில் வெல்லவே take it easy policy ...:) WISE MAN!
Move forward...please!


I will return back for your song offer of today.....
thanks, Suresh65.

Vinatha

If you are having original and 1st release of kadhal an cd, listen thuraimugam film song Chinna Chinna kanavugale Kannan by ksc.. Amazing song by ksc

[baroque]

chinna chinna kanavugale kannaa....Chithra's solo, beautiful!
I have heard this song at tfmpage only.
I never heard of this song while I was in chennai or b'lore!
Assorted collections dhaane kekkaren...

India visit, remember watching seevalaperi pandiyan songs etc..

I bought kadhalan in cassette only. It is with ullathai alliththa combo!

Real popular during that time like kadhal desam, indian, Kamoshi, asai, DDLJ etc.. , they play in cable tv!

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

Ofcourse I was kidding you about breaking communication :D Thanks for the detailed explanation. I understand what you are saying and I have heard the criticism that you have mentioned. I am trying to see if that applies in 1994 works of Raja now. And would like to see how the songs in this year have changed significantly. We will discuss this specific to this year once we complete listening to a few more unheard songs of this year.

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

And I also have to say that in the past few months I have been listening _only_ to Raja's 90s numbers and I am perfectly happy and fulfilled !!! I will list the songs I have been listening to soon.

[Sureshs65]

vinatha,

Oh, just the mention of some of Swarnalatha's songs are enough to move you to tears. Raja gave her some superb numbers and she delivered them perfectly. She was versatile like Janaki, with a unique voice and a bit more subtle in emoting. Sad that she lost her voice and then we lost her at such a young age.

[Sureshs65]

Thanks Rajesh for the correction. I checked the lyricist at the raaga site here: http://www.raaga.com/channels/tamil/album/T0003012.html It says Panju Arunachalam.

After reading your message I checked this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iNapBZToUc

and it lists Vaali and Pulamaipiththan as the lyricist. I guess this song is by Vaali. Will correct the credits.

I am including the 'Mayabazaar' song in the 1995 list. Thanks for the reco.

[Sureshs65]

V_S,

Like DR says, the whole soundtrack is lovely. Nice sounds, nice rhythms. Somehow we missed it.

[baroque]

yeah... really a loss! RIP SWARNA!

Ilayaraja nna, 80s looms large!
irundhaalum....
thanks to your nice thread, we get to reconnect with forgotten, not familiar or ignored compositions!:)

all decades, all composers, now & then revisits will help us not to deprive of some good, rare songs for a long time:-D

vinatha

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 20
Song: Poonkuyil Rendu
Film: Veetla Visheshanga
Singers: SPB, Sunanda
Lyrics: ??
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR4011'&lang=en

Going by the consensus here, this was the least popular song of the movie. 'konjam sangeetham' is a superb song, mostly based on Kalyani but Raja slowly changing it to Sivaranjani in the charanam. 'bus dhaan ptc', 'malare thenral paadum' and 'jigan jinukku' were heard by many. Bhagyaraj was one director, who was close to Raja from his early days, but kept going off from Raja now and then. No clue what happened in the background but he did have MSV, Gangai Amaran and himself as music directors. (I am sure there were others as well.) Somehow Raja seemed to have liked him enough to not worry about this.

I would put 'Punkuyil Rendu' into the 'peaceful' category. The prelude is very peaceful and SPB sings as if singing a bit harsher would break the song. The first interlude is perfect example of how to blend WCM and Indian classical music, the WCM violins broken by the veena. The rhythm structure is something Raja used a lot in 90s. Drums to start the proceedings and tabla to keep count in the charanams. The charanam has Sunanda joining SPB and both keep the softness intact. The orchestration is also kept soft, with the bass guitar and the tabla doing the honors. The second interlude is again a lesson in WCM with a short but superb chorus joining at the end.

In short I would say this is a typical Raja song of the 90s. Very soft, the orchestration not dominating over the singing but rather supplementing it. The interludes also similarly keep themselves muted though there is lot of highly technical work involved in them. A very peaceful song, which once you put in your playlist, you will have difficulty getting it out.

[app_engine]

Bhagyaraj was one director, who was close to Raja from his early days, but kept going off from Raja now and then. No clue what happened in the background but he did have MSV, Gangai Amaran and himself as music directors. (I am sure there were others as well.) Somehow Raja seemed to have liked him enough to not worry about this.


suvar illAtha siththirangaL - Gangai Amaran (was this KBR's first or bAmA rukmaNi?)
bAmA rukmaNi - MSV
oru kai Osai - MSV
mouna geethangaL - GA

inRu pOi nALai vA - IR
vidiyum varai kAththiru - IR

darling darling darling - S-G irattaiyar
andha 7 nAtkaL - MSV
poi sAtchi - S-G

thooRal ninnu pOchchu - IR
mundhAnai mudichchu - IR (perhaps the biggest hit ever for KBR)
dAvanikkanavugaL - IR
chinna veedu - IR

enga chinna rAsA - S-G
idhu namma ALu - KBR (with S-G help, probably)

After that I lost track...

[San_K]

Until OOOR, BR was good. I liked his OOOR, the movie but the movie did not do that much well

Few other movies of BR with IR

Rasukkutti
Veetla Vishesanga
Oru Oorla Oru Rajakumari

And other later movies

Avasara Police 100
Vettiya Madichu Kattu
Gnapazham (probably the last of BR as hero)

[baroque]

this period Raja will employ SPB for one song in couple of movies like MANAM VIRUMBUDHEY UNAI, KIZHAKKUM MERKKUM etc...
makes you yearn!:musicsmile:

:ty:Suresh! simple highlight of composition's bgm by you, liked it very much!


Bagyaraj's PARIJADHAM with Prithvi & his daughter came around 2007.
Equal measure of Romance, Humour, Sentiment with kutti plots lead to bigger story, interesting story telling, couple of songs- (rain song was nice!), Bhagyaraj did good! FRESH! :-D He knows to keep your attention & tell a story!:thumbsup:

I read about a upcoming telgu movie !

We look forward to his next tamil movie too!:-D

[Sureshs65]

Thanks app / San_K. Bhagyaraj was probably the only film director who had close interaction right from the early days of Raja's entry into TFM, who probably went to so many music directors. There were other who started with Raja, stuck to Raja and moved away because of some fallout or maybe due to producer's pressure. Bhagyaraj seems to be the only exception to this trend.

[Sureshs65]

Thanks Vinatha. This SPB number 'poonkuyil rendu' is lovely and so very soft. Surprisingly I had contrasting reactions on twitter with one Raja fan saying it was criminal to have included this song as 'rare' while another Raja fan commented that he has never heard it !!!!

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 21
Song: Veetai Dhaandi
Film: Magalir Mattum
Singer : S.Janaki
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR1839'&lang=en

This was a movie which typically had 'situation' song. A very loose adaptation of the English movie, '9 to 5', Urvasi, Nazar and Rohini excelled. It was a hilarious film from Kamal's stable.

The songs, as I said, were tuned more to the situation. There were no duets as such and the songs turned out to be of the 'uprising nature' ('magalir mattum' and this song) or comic ones ('mothu mothunnu', 'karava maaadu' ) In a way it was a different film to compose, not the usual duet and solo songs. While none of the songs really took the listeners by storm, they were quite apt for the situation.

The song we are listening to today, is about the troubles faced by women when they go out of their home for work. The general tone is to tell women to not give in to the advances of men and raise against ill treatment. The start is almost jazz like. This is a song which Raja uses the synthesizer mostly. The prelude is lovely. Looks like it is Janaki all through with her changing her voice or is there some other female singer involved here? This is one type of song which Raja would try often in later days as well. Uprising /. revolutionary song with only the help of synthesizer and without real strings.

The song is sung by three characters and Vaali writes nice lyrics alternative between the language used by the three women. The charanams are energetic keeping in requirement of the song. Janaki is the star here though her voice shows signs of aging. The interludes are all synth based, with the drums keeping the energy intact. I like the half angry, half mocking tone of the charanam. The tune and lyrics complementing each other very well.

[V_S]

Sureshji,
As you said, very unconventional compostions and to the situation as you rightly observed. :thumbsup: Didn't hear the songs before the release, but was overwhelmed when watching the film (during the release) just by breath-taking WCM title score (magaLir mattum). It starts off as if Maestro is rehearsing, but just the time it takes off with choir, no words just to bow. :notworthy: Every song is as fresh as morning even today. Good film highlighted by Nagesh's terrific performance (even as a cameo). :notworthy:

[Sureshs65]

V_S,

Yes, very unconventional song. Haven't been able to get it out of my head since I posted yesterday :) No one composes perfectly for a situation like Raja does.

[Sureshs65]

Here is my plan for the next two days. I have ensured we have heard atleast one song from all the movies of 1994. As I said earlier, I have not covered the following movies:
- Veera (Very Popular)
- Mahanadhi (Very Popular)
- Sathyavan (Remade from Telugu. All songs transplanted from Telugu)
- Thenral Varum Theru (Audio released in 1992 according to info. So not included in 1994)
I will give you the list of all movie released in 1994 tomorrow and also the list of hit songs of Raja and other composers in 1994.

Today I will post two songs which were requests. The first one is from 'Pudhupatti Ponnuthaayi', a request from Jai. Other is a Swarnalatha song from Walter Vetrivel (1993) which is a request from Rajesh. Tomorrow I plan to do a detailed analysis of the music of Raja in 1994 and the Tamil film music scene in general. It may be a long post. I want to do it tomorrow so that people will have some time over the weekend to read it :)

[app_engine]

Tomorrow I plan to do a detailed analysis of the music of Raja in 1994 and the Tamil film music scene in general. It may be a long post.

ஆவலுடன் எதிர்பார்க்கிறேன்...

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 22
Song: Nadaswaram Vidhuvan
Film: Pudhupatti Ponnuthayi
Singers: Mano, S.N.Surendar, chorus
Lyrics: Pulamaipithan
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2984'&lang=en

This was a request by Jai. I have this theory that amongst the different types of songs that need to composed, the toughest one to compose is the comic song. While sad songs or happy songs get help from a raga, revolutionary songs get their power from the orchestra. Comic songs generally get the comic element from the lyrics. No raga is inherently humorous, whereas ragas like Subhapanthuvarali are inherently sad or Atana can easily depict valor. If you hear the comic songs from past you will see their high dependence on lyrics and /or on some musical effects (like the 'doing' thing which is supposed to be funny.) If you sing only the tune without lyrics, it will be interesting to see how many tunes will make people go, "Wow, that must be a comic song." Yet, there have been comic songs all along and some of them have achieved cult status like the 'maama maple' song, 'aatukutti muttai ittu' etc.

Raja has done lot of comic songs and you can see that he strives hard to get the comic element in the tune itself. Comic lyrics do help here but Raja also tries to get this aspect in the tune itself. It is a tough task in which I am sure Raja himself may not be 100% satisfied with the output. How do you then get the comic element into the tune? Let us listen to today song to understand how he gets it in this song.

The first aspect is the rhythm. Raja has prepared us for such a rhythm that we automatically associate the 'thullal' rhythm with humor. Just think 'kadaveedhi kalakalakkum' and 'yaaroda akka maga da?". Then the tune itself, which has a unique contour that gives us a sense of fun. Then comes the interlude with those somewhat broken violins and the nadaswaram. The bass gives the necessary effect to keep the fun element intact. The lyrics also help but even without the lyrics, you can easily make out that this is a fun song. The second interlude with the women joining in seriously is superb contrast. As with most songs of Raja, you can easily visualize how the song must be picturized. The whole picture is in the song.

BTW, Mano and Surendar do a great job in this job. The lyrics are by Pulaimaipithan and they complement the song very well (BTW, I did not know it was Surendar. My friends Chokkan and Rajgopal on twitter told me it was S.N.Surendar)

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 23
Song: Ovvaru Pakkam
Film: Walter Vetrive (1993)
Singer: Swarnalatha
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR4097'&lang=en

This movie is from 1993 but we will make an exception here because Rajesh asked for this song. Secondly, this song is like a precursor to songs like 'enakku ulladhellam' from 'Vietnam Colony' which I had posted a few days back. Walter Vetrivel had some hit songs like 'chinna raasave', 'poongatre', 'mannava mannava' but as Rajesh says this song did not get much airing. The reason could be obvious once you listen to it :)

I remember someone posting it in one of the threads earlier with a comment saying that the 'ich ich' could have been avoided :) (Was it Rajasaranam or Aakarsh?) Anyway, let us get to the song. This is an uniquely constructed song. The synth rhythms are very nice. Generally Raja uses drums in the interludes while charanams will have tabla accompaniment, whereas here we have tabla wonderfully blending with the beats in the first interlude. And observe Swarnalatha. Listen as she right from the humming in the prelude gets the mood of the song perfect. In this regard I would rate her along with Janaki and Asha Bhosle, if not higher. Observe how she enunciates 'poovidhazhil neeyum naanum'. Why do you even need words to know what is going on? And then hear 'aalukkoru paadhi paadhi' !! And that lovely first interlude so loving keeps the 'mood' intact. Sheer brilliance, the interaction between tabla, violins and guitar. Again observe how wonderfully the tune moves in the charanam and how wonderfully Swarnalatha sings it. Then imagine how it would have been had Swarnalatha sung, ' naane naana'. And then the second interlude!! This song is a perfect example of how you should tune for an erotic song. (Infact the tune and the singing are so good that the 'ich ich' is an overkill.)

Thanks to Rajesh for the reco. This will stay in my playlist for a long time.

[rajeshkrv]

Song No: 23
Song: Ovvaru Pakkam
Film: Walter Vetrive (1993)
Singer: Swarnalatha
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR4097'&lang=en

This movie is from 1993 but we will make an exception here because Rajesh asked for this song. Secondly, this song is like a precursor to songs like 'enakku ulladhellam' from 'Vietnam Colony' which I had posted a few days back. Walter Vetrivel had some hit songs like 'chinna raasave', 'poongatre', 'mannava mannava' but as Rajesh says this song did not get much airing. The reason could be obvious once you listen to it :)

I remember someone posting it in one of the threads earlier with a comment saying that the 'ich ich' could have been avoided :) (Was it Rajasaranam or Aakarsh?) Anyway, let us get to the song. This is an uniquely constructed song. The synth rhythms are very nice. Generally Raja uses drums in the interludes while charanams will have tabla accompaniment, whereas here we have tabla wonderfully blending with the beats in the first interlude. And observe Swarnalatha. Listen as she right from the humming in the prelude gets the mood of the song perfect. In this regard I would rate her along with Janaki and Asha Bhosle, if not higher. Observe how she enunciates 'poovidhazhil neeyum naanum'. Why do you even need words to know what is going on? And then hear 'aalukkoru paadhi paadhi' !! And that lovely first interlude so loving keeps the 'mood' intact. Sheer brilliance, the interaction between tabla, violins and guitar. Again observe how wonderfully the tune moves in the charanam and how wonderfully Swarnalatha sings it. Then imagine how it would have been had Swarnalatha sung, ' naane naana'. And then the second interlude!! This song is a perfect example of how you should tune for an erotic song. (Infact the tune and the singing are so good that the 'ich ich' is an overkill.)

Thanks to Rajesh for the reco. This will stay in my playlist for a long time.

thanks for considering my reques. yes ich ich could have been avoided but over all a very different song by IR & Swarnalatha.

[rajeshkrv]

Song No: 22
Song: Nadaswaram Vidhuvan
Film: Pudhupatti Ponnuthayi
Singers: Mano, S.N.Surendar, chorus
Lyrics: ??
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2984'&lang=en

This was a request by Jai. I have this theory that amongst the different types of songs that need to composed, the toughest one to compose is the comic song. While sad songs or happy songs get help from a raga, revolutionary songs get their power from the orchestra. Comic songs generally get the comic element from the lyrics. No raga is inherently humorous, whereas ragas like Subhapanthuvarali are inherently sad or Atana can easily depict valor. If you hear the comic songs from past you will see their high dependence on lyrics and /or on some musical effects (like the 'doing' thing which is supposed to be funny.) If you sing only the tune without lyrics, it will be interesting to see how many tunes will make people go, "Wow, that must be a comic song." Yet, there have been comic songs all along and some of them have achieved cult status like the 'maama maple' song, 'aatukutti muttai ittu' etc.

Raja has done lot of comic songs and you can see that he strives hard to get the comic element in the tune itself. Comic lyrics do help here but Raja also tries to get this aspect in the tune itself. It is a tough task in which I am sure Raja himself may not be 100% satisfied with the output. How do you then get the comic element into the tune? Let us listen to today song to understand how he gets it in this song.

The first aspect is the rhythm. Raja has prepared us for such a rhythm that we automatically associate the 'thullal' rhythm with humor. Just think 'kadaveedhi kalakalakkum' and 'yaaroda akka maga da?". Then the tune itself, which has a unique contour that gives us a sense of fun. Then comes the interlude with those somewhat broken violins and the nadaswaram. The bass gives the necessary effect to keep the fun element intact. The lyrics also help but even without the lyrics, you can easily make out that this is a fun song. The second interlude with the women joining in seriously is superb contrast. As with most songs of Raja, you can easily visualize how the song must be picturized. The whole picture is in the song.

BTW, Mano and Surendar do a great job in this job. The lyrics are very Gangai Amaran in nature. Maybe it is him. Can someone confirm? (BTW, I did not know it was Surendar. My friends Chokkan and Rajgopal on twitter told me it was S.N.Surendar)

p.ponnuthayi had lyrics by Vaali & pulamai pithan. this could be pulamai pithan

[Sureshs65]

Rajesh,

I should actually be the one thanking you for pointing me to that lovely number. I put the link on twitter and lot of people loved the song. Ofcourse, when I put it up I said 'an erotic song' and I saw that more people heard it. enna irudhaalum matter matter dhaan :lol:

Kanapraba on twitter gave me link to raaga.com which says the song is by Pulamaipithan. I will accordingly update it. http://www.raaga.com/channels/tamil/album/T0002898.html

And BTW, to all folks, do give 'irugi kidakkum' from 'Pudhupatti Ponnuthaayi' a listen. Excellent tune and lyrics and Jesudas's superb singing. Sort of tells you how much more better 'onnukkonu' would have been had Jesudas's voice been in such top form.

[baroque]

Good job, Suresh!
Nice :-D

[Sureshs65]

Thanks Vinatha.

[Sureshs65]

Today we will do an analysis of the year 1994 and then next week we will proceed to 1995.

As a first step, let me list down the films Raja did in 1994. The whole list of Tamil films of 1994 as per thiraipaadal is here: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/year.php?schYear=1994&lang=en

Films of Raja released in 1994: (in alphabetical order)
1. Amaidhi Padai
2. Atharmam
3. Athiradi Padai
4. Kanmani
5. Madhurai Veeran Engasamy
6. Magalir Mattum
7. Mahanadhi
8. Muthu Kaalai
9. Periya Marudhu
10. Priyanka
11. Puthupatti Ponnuthaye
12. Rasamagan
13. Rajakumaran
14. Shakthivel
15. Sathiyavaan
16. Seeman
17. Senthamizh Selvan (with MSV)
18. Sethupathi IPS
19. Sevvanthi
20. Thenral Varum Theru
21. Thozhar Pandiyar
22. Vanaja Girija
23. Veera
24. Veetla Visheshanga
25. Vietnam Colony

Of these, the following were successful films ( I need your help here. I am putting up movies I know about. If I have missed something let me know)
1. Veera (Super hit)
2. Mahanadhi (Hit)
3. Sethupathi IPS (Hit)
4. Magalir Mattum (Hit)
5. Veetla Vusheshanga (Hit)
6. Prinyanka (Moderate)
7. Vietnam Colony (Moderate)
8. Rajakumaran (Moderate)
9. Vanaja Girija (Moderate)
10. Amaidhi Padai (Hit)
11. Pudhupatti Ponnuthaaye (Hit)
12. Periya Marudhu (Hit)
13. Rasamagan (Hit)

[Sureshs65]

In short, there were decent number of hits for Raja in 1994, in terms of hit films. Our concern is more with songs, so let me list out the songs which were hits and then I will list of songs which the Raja fans of 80s like and some which all Raja fans should have in their play list. Here is the list of 'hit' songs of Raja in 1994.

1. All songs of Veera (Esp Konji Konji, Malai Koil and Madathile)
2. Sree Ranga Ranganathanin (Mahanadhi)
3. Muthu Mani (Adharmam)
4. Mothu Mothu Kuthanum (Magalir Mattum)
5. Vidala Pulla Nesathukku (Periya Marudhu)
6. Vana Kuyile and Indha Jilla muzhukka (Priyanka)
7. Ooradangum Saamathile (Pudhu Patti Ponnuthaaye)
8. Anju Kajam and Vaikasi Vellikizhamai (Rasamagan)
9. Sithagathi Pookale and Ennavendru Solvadhamma (Rajakumaran)
10. Malligai Mottu (Shakthivel)
11. Saathu Nada Saathu (Sethupathi IPS)
12. Unnai Edhirparthen, Othayile and Munnam Seidha (Vanaja Girija)
13. Most songs of Veetla Visheshanga
14. Kaiyil Veenai and Saamikki naan poo parikka (Vietnam Colony)

As you can see, each film had a hit but except for 'Veera' or 'Veetla Visheshanga' or maybe 'Vanja Girija', we were not seeing songs of whole film being hit, like in the golden years of 80s. I personally like almost all songs in movies like 'Pudhupatti Ponnuthayee', 'Vietnam Colony', 'Rasamagan', 'Periya Marudhu' etc but we have to accept that the audience did not view it as such. (Ofcourse I was also part of the audience then. The liking I have expressed in more recent.)

Let us also see what were the other hits in this year from other music directors:
1. Duet (Whole album) - Rahman
2. Kadhalan (Whole Album) - Rahman
3. Karuthamma (Whole Album) - Rahman
4. May Madham (Almost the whole album) - Rahman
5. Sevvanam and Uyirum Neeya (Pavithra) - Rahman
6. Nee Kattum Selai (Pudhiya Mannargal) - Rahman
7. Senthamizh Naatu - Vandisolai Chinnarasu - Rahman
8. Indu - Deva (Which songs?)
9. Kotta Paakum - Naatamai - Sirpy
10. Jai Hind - Vidyasagar (Which songs?)

As can be seen from the statistics, the Rahman effect was in full swing. If you compare the number of hit songs of Raja that year and the hit songs of Rahman that year, they may be equal !!! Ofcourse Rahman has more % hits compared to Raja. But all these statistics do not tell us anything about the Rahman effect. The way the songs of 'Duet', 'Kathalan', 'May Madham' and 'Karuthamma' were hits in Chennai and other cities can only be experience. People were in deep love with these songs and they occupied the top slots in all the countdowns that had started then and were fairly representative of the actual hit status of the songs. (Unlike later days when the channels would themselves buy films and songs from those films would appear as top songs!!!). So when you look at the statistics, you can clearly see Rahman being the top music director that year from various perspectives.

[Sureshs65]

Getting away from the statistics, we ask this question. What did Raja do differently to take on the competition? After listening to most of the songs from the 1994 films of Raja, we can come to the conclusion that Raja did nothing different in terms of taking on the competition!!! In his music, there is no sign that he was even acknowledging the competition!! It was as if Raja wanted to take his own trajectory and not change anything for sake of 'taking on' the competition. As Kiru had earlier mentioned, Rahman's sound became cool, recording techniques of Rahman were better and audience were hearing a new sound and tunes, which had no relationship with Raja's music at all. People had to make a choice and almost all youngsters those days voted for Rahman. If you see Raja's music 1994, it is just like a small progression from 1992. The same 'peaceful' melodies, the tabla accompaniment, same voices of SPB, KJY, Janaki, Chitra, Swarnalatha and no fixed lyricist (though Vaali wrote a lot of songs) leading to uneven lyrics, whereas Vairamuthu was in elements for Rahman. All these ensured that Raja's music was seen as 'same old music'. I will confess that I felt the same then and did not give the time of day to many albums. Today though the situation is changed and many of these songs I hear more than his 80s hits !!! I speak the truth here and not telling this because I am writing this series. At the same time, I will also have to agree that there are many who are not too happy with many of the Raja songs that came in 1994.

[rajeshkrv]

In short, there were decent number of hits for Raja in 1994, in terms of hit films. Our concern is more with songs, so let me list out the songs which were hits and then I will list of songs which the Raja fans of 80s like and some which all Raja fans should have in their play list. Here is the list of 'hit' songs of Raja in 1994.

1. All songs of Veera (Esp Konji Konji, Malai Koil and Madathile)
2. Sree Ranga Ranganathanin (Mahanadhi)
3. Muthu Mani (Adharmam)
4. Mothu Mothu Kuthanum (Magalir Mattum)
5. Vidala Pulla Nesathukku (Periya Marudhu)
6. Vana Kuyile and Indha Jilla muzhukka (Priyanka)
7. Ooradangum Saamathile (Pudhu Patti Ponnuthaaye)
8. Anju Kajam and Vaikasi Vellikizhamai (Rasamagan)
9. Sithagathi Pookale and Ennavendru Solvadhamma (Rajakumaran)
10. Malligai Mottu (Shakthivel)
11. Saathu Nada Saathu (Sethupathi IPS)
12. Unnai Edhirparthen, Othayile and Munnam Seidha (Vanaja Girija)
13. Most songs of Veetla Visheshanga
14. Kaiyil Veenai and Saamikki naan poo parikka (Vietnam Colony)

As you can see, each film had a hit but except for 'Veera' or 'Veetla Visheshanga' or maybe 'Vanja Girija', we were not seeing songs of whole film being hit, like in the golden years of 80s. I personally like almost all songs in movies like 'Pudhupatti Ponnuthayee', 'Vietnam Colony', 'Rasamagan', 'Periya Marudhu' etc but we have to accept that the audience did not view it as such. (Ofcourse I was also part of the audience then. The liking I have expressed in more recent.)

Let us also see what were the other hits in this year from other music directors:
1. Duet (Whole album) - Rahman
2. Kadhalan (Whole Album) - Rahman
3. Karuthamma (Whole Album) - Rahman
4. May Madham (Almost the whole album) - Rahman
5. Sevvanam and Uyirum Neeya (Pavithra) - Rahman
6. Nee Kattum Selai (Pudhiya Mannargal) - Rahman
7. Senthamizh Naatu - Vandisolai Chinnarasu - Rahman
8. Indu - Deva (Which songs?)
9. Kotta Paakum - Naatamai - Sirpy
10. Jai Hind - Vidyasagar (Which songs?)

As can be seen from the statistics, the Rahman effect was in full swing. If you compare the number of hit songs of Raja that year and the hit songs of Rahman that year, they may be equal !!! Ofcourse Rahman has more % hits compared to Raja. But all these statistics do not tell us anything about the Rahman effect. The way the songs of 'Duet', 'Kathalan', 'May Madham' and 'Karuthamma' were hits in Chennai and other cities can only be experience. People were in deep love with these songs and they occupied the top slots in all the countdowns that had started then and were fairly representative of the actual hit status of the songs. (Unlike later days when the channels would themselves buy films and songs from those films would appear as top songs!!!). So when you look at the statistics, you can clearly see Rahman being the top music director that year from various perspectives.

suresh fantastic writeup
just to add
Sevvanthi's 2 songs "punnai vana poonkuyile" by Arunmozhi & Swarnalatha, "semmeene semmeene by PJ & Sunandha" were popular and hits as well
thanks for ceylon radio for that.

[rajeshkrv]

Getting away from the statistics, we ask this question. What did Raja do differently to take on the competition? After listening to most of the songs from the 1994 films of Raja, we can come to the conclusion that Raja did nothing different in terms of taking on the competition!!! In his music, there is no sign that he was even acknowledging the competition!! It was as if Raja wanted to take his own trajectory and not change anything for sake of 'taking on' the competition. As Kiru had earlier mentioned, Rahman's sound became cool, recording techniques of Rahman were better and audience were hearing a new sound and tunes, which had no relationship with Raja's music at all. People had to make a choice and almost all youngsters those days voted for Rahman. If you see Raja's music 1994, it is just like a small progression from 1992. The same 'peaceful' melodies, the tabla accompaniment, same voices of SPB, KJY, Janaki, Chitra, Swarnalatha and no fixed lyricist (though Vaali wrote a lot of songs) leading to uneven lyrics, whereas Vairamuthu was in elements for Rahman. All these ensured that Raja's music was seen as 'same old music'. I will confess that I felt the same then and did not give the time of day to many albums. Today though the situation is changed and many of these songs I hear more than his 80s hits !!! I speak the truth here and not telling this because I am writing this series. At the same time, I will also have to agree that there are many who are not too happy with many of the Raja songs that came in 1994.

Lyricist was not an issue. even in 80's raja always worked with multi lyricists in films other than BR's(except for nizhalgal & niram maradha pookal)
he used M.G.Vallaban, na.kamarasan lot like mu metha etc along with Vaali/VM so the lyrics part was not the reason i feel

[rajeshkrv]

Also 1994 had a fantastic swarnalatha song "puthiya paravai paranthathe" from "Thendral Varum theru" though thendral varum theru adhu nee thaane was popular.
i guess it was Mu.metha's own production

[ravinat]

Rajesh

Only 'Ithu Oru Pon Maalai Pozhudhu' in Nizhalgal was by VM, if my memory serves me right.

Suresh

Very well put views on 1994 Raja. Most people (me included) were swept away by ARR as he was in his peak form (till 1999 in my view). It is not just the new sounds, recording quality, but also new singers and he ensured that his melodies were quite catchy and appealed to a pan-Indian audience.

Only very few songs of Raja in 1994 even have made it to the general film music listener's list. While we are trying to unearth some of these songs, Raja was not at his prime at this time (he has bounced back since). I do not agree about VM as he is always overrated. With the exception of Veera, Mahanadhi, Priyanka and Rajakumaran, I heard most of the other films only after 2007 when I started collecting Raja's music.

Regardless of the decade, there is one problem with Raja's output, when he takes up too many assignments in a year. Unless the song is outstanding, it gets lost in the din. In 2009, for example, he did 18 films in all languages (I think, it is the most he did in the 21st century) and most people (not HCIRF) never heard anything beyond 1 or 2 films. We all know that some of his 2009 output was stellar. His volume, lack of marketing/positioning of his album continues to plague him even today. As music lovers, we enjoy unearthing them. However, the unearthed gems have limited appeal, though they are gems, in my view.

[app_engine]

Excellent analysis, Sureshji!
:thumbsup:

BTW, if one goes by Goundamani thread, amaithippadai was a super hit...

nach post, ravinat!
:clap:


Rajesh
Only 'Ithu Oru Pon Maalai Pozhudhu' in Nizhalgal was by VM, if my memory serves me right.


madai thiRandhu - vAli
poongathavE - Gangai A
dhooraththil nAn kaNda - ?

[Sureshs65]

So why did Raja refuse to respond. One simple explanation could be Raja never considered Rahman a competitor but just an upstart who will soon vanish. That would be too simplistic because Raja is a very intelligent person and he would have easily gauged how people were reacting to Rahman's songs. My own assessment on why he would not have reacted soon enough is that it was like a clash of civilization. It was a clash of philosophies. I would say that his philosophy about music making was tying Raja down and it probably was responsible for Raja not changing his style for a long time. Let me try and elaborate on these two aspects.

The first aspect is about the mode of music making. Rahman's entry opened the doors for loops and samples. What it basically meant is that it was no longer necessary for the music director and his team to compose every piece of music of the song. You can now buy parts of your music and then integrate into the song. The beats (for example, those of 'Pudhu Vellai Mazhai' came from Vangelis) could come from one place, some music or a exotic voice can be sampled from somewhere else and become part of the song. Rahman showed the way, which is now being followed by almost all music directors. So music, which was only composition earlier now became composition plus integration. The advantage was that you can now choose some 'cool' sounds which were already hit with another set of audience. You had a larger sample to choose from. And given these were more oriented towards a western audience, the 'coolness' factor came in. Raja, on the other hand, belonged to the old school. A school in which, according to music director Sarath, every bar was Raja's. So Raja refused to use the store bought loops. (He would use them later albeit reluctantly and sparsely). Raja composed all his rhythms in this year. So when Rahman's music came with exotic rhythms it was immediately catchy for the audience and was very novel.

The second philosophy relates to the construction of the song itself. Let us a take a few songs and compare their structure. This is not to say which is good or which is bad. We will just look only at the construction of the song. Let me take comparable songs.

First let us take songs which talk about nature. 'May Madham' had the super hit 'Maargazhi Poove', which to certain extent was talking about nature. For Raja's song let me take 'Thendral Kaatre' from 'Atharmam' . Once again, this is not about which was better. I want you to listen to both the songs and observe how they are constructed. Especially check out the charanams. The charanam of 'margazhi poove' is fairly straight. A few nice sounding but fairly straight lines before the charanam joins the pallavi. Then check the charanam of 'thenral katre'. It just goes everywhere. It has lot more twists and turns and is quite complicated. Same way you may want to compare how the charanams move in 'Kadhalan's 'ennavale ennavale' with how the charanam moves in 'konji konji' from 'Veera'. You can clearly see that the 'Veera' charanam is more complicated compared to 'ennavale'. Same way, check out two mother based songs: 'uyirum neeye' from 'Pavithra, which gave Unnikrishnan his national award and 'irugi pona para' from 'Pudhupatti Ponnuthayee'. Again you can see the philosophy in construction being very different. In the earlier days, Rahman's tunes were simpler compared to Raja's and that probably made them very catchy as well. Again, I am not trying to argue that simple is easy. All I am trying to point out is that Raja's philosophy of song construction was fairly different from Rahman's. So Raja just couldn't bring himself to make his music more 'simple', atleast not that year. (Rahman's simple constructions would later form the basis of Harris Jayaraj's philosophy later and he would become very successful.) Not only the song construction, even in interludes the complexity that Raja got in was of a high order compared to the songs of Rahman in that year. Complex songs meant that you needed really good singers to execute them, especially when you are doing many movies in a year. That was probably one of the reasons that Raja used SPB, KJY, SJ, KSC, Mano regularly. To a certain extent he was probably right, because when he used the singers from Rahman's stable, like Hariharan, Sreenivas, Unni Krishnan you can see them struggling. They sound far better and at ease in Rahman's songs than in Raja songs.

Another fact may surprise many but Rahman probably had lot more raga based songs than Raja (as a % of songs). This was one aspect which Raja fans missed. Many of Raja's songs were scale based and we did not get to hear some new raga or a well known raga with Raja's treatment. Here too, Rahman's approach to a raga was different from Raja's. Rahman took the standard phrases of many ragas and built a song with these phrases giving a very 'cool' and western orchestration around it. Karuthamma had Madhyamavathi / Brindavana Saranga ('then merku paruva katru'), there was Khamas in 'uyirum neeye', there were mixture of ragas in 'ennavale', there was Anandabhairavi in 'mettu podu' and Hindolam (?) in 'marghazi poove' and so on. Raja did have Amirkalyani in 'kaiyil veenai' but overall the number of songs in which the raga manifested itself or in which a new raga was used with Raja's signature. Raja approached any raga in a very different way. He had to use it in a novel way. He never wanted to use the standard phrases. You can see that thought in a song like 'vana kuyile' . But in this year, the songs were more scale based and the movie like 'Pudhupatti Ponnuthayee' where different ragas were used (Arabhi, Hemavathi) it was more in a very classical context and the Raja touch was less.

The disclaimer of course is that these are my thoughts and they need not be the 'veda vaaku'. Please go ahead and put in your thoughts. As I said, we are not trying to prove one approach was better than the other. We are just trying to analyze why certain things happened and why certain things didn't happen.

[Sureshs65]

Rajesh,

I would agree with you regarding the lyricist. You have a point there. Raja was never a single lyricist MD.

Ravi,

Nice comment. What I heard from people is that the 'hit' status was different in Chennai and in other cities / towns. P_R, for example, says that many of the songs we didn't hear in Chennai being quite well known in Madurai. From a Chennai perspective, what you say is right. Only a few films were well known.

Kindly see my extended analysis and put in your thoughts.

app,

Thanks. Also kindly read the other analysis and let me know your thoughts. I vaguely remember 'doorathil' being Panju Arunachalam. I can be wrong though.

[Sureshs65]

I have updated the 'hit' movie status based on Rajasaranam's feedback on twitter

[kameshratnam]

5. Madhurai Veeran Engasamy was released in 1990 and not 1994

Also, Vidyasagar did make people notice with his Jaihind: Thaimanikodi solludu jaihind - even now it is played for independence day promos ; Kanna en selai kulla and Muttam thara - were also spoken about. The town did recognise that there was a person by name vidyasagar who had entered the music scenario

[Sureshs65]

Rajasaranam's reaction on twitter:

" டாப்10 பாட்டுல சதவிகிதம்ன்னு எடுத்துக்கிட்டா டாப்2 ரகுமான் மீதில் 6 ராஜா சிட்டிலயும் டாப்6 ராஜா மீதில 2 ரகுமான் வில்லேஜ யும் ஹிட் ஆகும். ராஜா தனது கமர்ஷியல் பலத்தை இழந்தது 1997க்கு பின்னர்தான். அதுவரை ரகுமான்க்கு இனையான பலத்தோடுதான் இருந்தார். ரகுமானின் 90களின் வெற்றி பெரிதும்ஊதிபெருக்கபட்டது மீடியாக்களால் ராஜா கிராமங்களில்எப்போதும்போல்அட்சிசெய்துகொண்டிருந்தார் . பாடல் கணக்கு எடுத்தாலும் ராஜாவின் நம்பர்அஃப்ஹிட்ஸ் ரகுமானுடையதை தாண்டும் 90களிலும் 92துவங்கி இப்பொழுதுவரையிலும்கூட "

[Sureshs65]

Thanks Kamesh. I was going by thiraipaadal list .

[ravinat]

Suresh

I will only comment about electronic sounds as I did a lot of research on this when I wrote a detailed set of articles on 'Techno baroque'. I will bring up more on that specific topic later on as Techno Baroque was not in play during the 1994 timeframe. It is my view however, the Raja was slowly figuring out (or trying to) how to marry his traditional style with all the electronic sounds. There is one aspect of ARR that tends to get discounted by a lot of music critics on his electronics. It is not always about loops and patches. The way he used Kadari's sax in Duet is a good example of his sound management style (no pun intended!). He captures several facets of a competent artist and has the ability to integrate them very cleverly into his final output. This goes beyond mere sense of sound. In my view, in the melody department, that's what kept him going for almost a decade. The loops and patches played a role in his cathy rhythm dominated songs. But, his melody story is different. This is the reason why Rahman takes awful lot of time to generate his output and producers still put up with his demands on time. Even today, Raja does not think this way. Everything must be pre-written for him.

Don't we still have a number of computer software guys who tell you that Cloud computing is all a new incarnation of good old M/F time-sharing :-) Raja was a EMC trying to adjust to the Cloudera world! Or should I say Seagate :-)

[Sureshs65]

Ravi,

Very pertinent comment. Especially about Rahman's sound sense. I fully agree that it was not just about loops and patches. As you say he integrates the output very well.

I am ofcourse looking forward to your comments in the coming years, when Raja will start using the synthesizer.

[rajeshkrv]

Rajesh

Only 'Ithu Oru Pon Maalai Pozhudhu' in Nizhalgal was by VM, if my memory serves me right.



ravinat that was my point except for nizhalgal ,niram maradha pookal and sivappu rojakkal, BR-IR-VM had remaining hits and mostly VM was solo lyricist.

[Sureshs65]

Here are some other songs that I didn't cover in 1994 but which must be in Raja lover's playlist:

1. Sollividu Velli Nilave - Amaidhi Padai - http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR0168'&lang=en
2. Thakathom - Atharmam : http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR0168'&lang=en
3. Antha Kanji Kalayathai : http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2145'&lang=en
4. Periya Marudhu (All songs) : http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.php?ALBID=ALBIRR00488&lang=en
5. Irugi pona- Pudhupatti Ponnuthaaye - http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2978'&lang=en
6. Rasamagan - All songs - http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.php?ALBID=ALBIRR00544&lang=en
7. Chinna Chinna Solleduthu - Rajakumaran - http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR3079'&lang=en
8. Chinna Chinna Ratiname - Shaktivel - http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR3191'&lang=en
9. Nattukotta Chettiyaaru - Seeman - http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR3255'&lang=en (NI style song)

I think those should keep you occupied over the weekend :)

[kiru]

I agree with most of what Suresh says about IR's style vs Rahman's. Except in the raagam part. Maybe IR did not bring out the raagam essence, but the main thing is - his melody is split between the vocals and orchestra. You have to hear them together. Sometimes it is difficult to sing a IR song with out an acoompaniment or people make these sounds vocally. Rahman's style is a throwback to yesteryears. Straight indian melody mixed with modern rhythms. It is much easier on the ears. It will be difficult to enjoy IR's songs, in general compared to Rahman or Harris etc. Note, Rahman tends to use more classical based singers, he wants them to improvise and provide variations on his main melody (did anyone notice the Unni-NithyaShree interaction on Super Singer ?) . It is a different school of music-making. IR is working on leaving a genre/composing technique. Time will tell whether the man did a service to our music. He cannot go after money, fame or hit (even though I think a big salary motivates him :-) ) His style comes first and then the director can decide whether he likes it or not.

[Plum]

Sathyavan - all songs are from late 80s or early 90s telugu gilm

No wonder - it is a remake of April 1 Vidudala - although I vaguely remember one of the songs was remade from Chettu kinda pleader

[Plum]

Vinatha - you dont have to look forward to a Bhagyaraj movie. Look backwards. Catch up on Siddhu +2. Dont miss! Lover boy santanu with 2 heroines. (SPB pAttu irukkA theriyala)

[Plum]

Suresh:

Superhit
1 Veera
Hits
1. Amaidhi Padai
2. Atharmam
3. Magalir Mattum
4. Mahanadhi
5. Vanaja Girija


Flop
1. Athiradi Padai - Selvamani lost heavily (Roja produced I think)
2. Kanmani
3. Madhurai Veeran Engasamy
4. Priyanka
5. Rasamagan (Spl mention to my college friend - Sivaranjani fan - who saw this one a freaking 12 times. perumbaalum thaniyA dhAn pArthAnAm)
6. Rajakumaran (Kumaresan Prabhu varradhukuLLa :yessir:)
7. Shakthivel
8. Sathiyavaan
9. Seeman (Follow up to Chinna Jameen with same combination (Karthik-Suganya-Raj Kapoor-IR) and a resounding flop
10. Senthamizh Selvan (with MSV)
11. Thenral Varum Theru
12. Thozhar Pandiyar

Moderate

1. Muthu Kaalai - as usual in these years, then thamizhaga hit, overall average. Karthik's community support gave it some breath in madurai and suthupathu oorus
2. Periya Marudhu
3. Puthupatti Ponnuthaye
4. Sevvanthi
5. Veetla Visheshanga
6. Vietnam Colony


Even Mahanadhi is arguably moderate.

[ravinat]

Rajesh

I was too hasty to comment. Your point taken!

[kiru]

..Don't we still have a number of computer software guys who tell you that Cloud computing is all a new incarnation of good old M/F time-sharing :-) Raja was a EMC trying to adjust to the Cloudera world! Or should I say Seagate :-)

Dear Sonny, you are mistaken :-) Raja is like the inventor of MapReduce. Others are like Cloudera, Hortonworks etc. I have always compared IR songs to multi-threaded programs but they can be easily compared to a MR job.

[San_K]

Suresh super analysis. I want to add Sakthivel's malliga mottai song which was indeed a hit

I won't accept till 1997 raja had commercial value. Kadhalukku Mariyaathai came at 1997 only, it was a super duper hit album.How then suddely he could lost commercial value?.

[Sureshs65]

kiru,

I probably did not express myself correctly. Raja does get the essence of a raga perfectly. It is just that he does not use the standard phrases. For example Rahman's 'enge enadhu kavidhai', in the pallavi line, which is based on Sindhu Bhairavi, the starting phrases are very similar to the standard Sindhu Bhairavi we see in 'Venkatachala Nilayam'. In the Super Singer program, Nityashree was pointing out how Rahman had used the 'vanathil meedhu mayil aada kanden' as the inspiration for his Maand raga usage in 'Sowkiyama Kanne Sowkiyama' (Sangamam).

Raja on the other hand doesn't want to use the standard phrases and he comes up with his own unique way of giving us the raga. The raga essence exists but it comes about in newer ways than in the standard way. For example, while using Nalinakanthi raga (atleast nominally) Deva just takes the pallavi line from Tyagaraja's 'manavi aalakincha' for his 'manam virumbudhe' whereas 'endhan nenjil' gives a very different start to Nalinakanthi raga as compared to the Tyagaraja's standard. Added to this is the complexity you have mention of the orchestration. I am reading western music theory nowadays and was talking to a musician friend. Now I am slowly starting to understand the difficulty in providing harmony for Indian raga based songs, which Raja has done enormously. As with Raja, the more you learn about music, the more your wonder of his music.

And you are spot on about the fact that Rahman's tuning was a throw back to an earlier era. The early Rahman reminds me a lot of MSV and KVM in his approach to melody.

[Sureshs65]

Plum,

Thanks for the detailed analysis. So he did have a dozen moderate to good hits in that year.

San_K,

The 1997 cutoff is of our thalaivar Rajasaranam (aka @SharanKay) :) We will slowly work our way year by year to discover when Raja's commercial value waned.

[baroque]

yeah.. I read it's a remake!
I will search in my local Indian shop!

Santanu, Loverboy yaa ungalukku?
Seri... irundhuttu pogattum! vachukkongo, Plum!


Enakku S.P.Bala mattumdhaan LOVER BOY!:-D.. ninaikkum podhey santhoshamaa erukke! konjum devamirudha kuralil oru paadal kettaal!:bluejump:

[baroque]

Suresh,

You & our friends Ravinat, Kiru, etc...'s thoughts are very interesting to read! :-D
thanks.

[lord_labakudoss]

So why did Raja refuse to respond. One simple explanation could be Raja never considered Rahman a competitor but just an upstart who will soon vanish. That would be too simplistic because Raja is a very intelligent person and he would have easily gauged how people were reacting to Rahman's songs....
The disclaimer of course is that these are my thoughts and they need not be the 'veda vaaku'. Please go ahead and put in your thoughts. As I said, we are not trying to prove one approach was better than the other. We are just trying to analyze why certain things happened and why certain things didn't happen.
Great analysis, Suresh!
For me, there were two major sources of disappointment.
1) At some point in the early 90s, IR just stopped trying to incorporate new sounds. I, for one, did not just want a cloned sound -like ARR was doing. I wanted to see how IR would incorporate these sounds into his style (like he had been doing in the 80s)... but he never responded.
2) In the 80s, no genre was 'beneath' IR. Disco, pop, swing - he would throw us a bone every now & then, based on what was in vogue. For some reason, he stopped doing these in the 90s. When Prabhu deva's style brought in the era of fast foot-tapping pieces with heavy rhythm; IR didn't bother. When latin-style music became a craze, IR didn't bother. Rap? Not a response. For each of these developments, I remember imagining what IR's take on these would be, and then getting disappointed/disillusioned at the lack of response. (Disclaimer - he might well have responded in other languages - AFAIK, none of these ever became noticeably popular)
Maybe it was his crossing into his 40s; maybe it was the appearance of a genuine threat to his dominance; maybe it was the abandoning of all the reputed directors - hard to know...

Regards
LL

[Sureshs65]

Vinatha,

Thanks

LLD,

Yes, that was indeed strange. For Raja had used rock and roll, take disco to heights even the western guys couldn't imagine, swing, jazz and what not !!! As I said, in the 90s, for a long time, Raja was just following his own trajectory, which was a disappoint for many. Today, in my playlist I have more of his 90s output. Somehow I find that tabla beat very comforting. ('The comfort of the tabla' like our app_eng used to say) Yet, those who lived through those times as Raja fans did feel very disappointed. That is why there are even now people who say that Raja 'lost it' after 80s. It is very difficult to know what the genius was thinking those days and we are trying hard to find some clue from the music.

[baroque]

LLD, good point!

He was not thunderous but has given enough....

magalir mattum...karavai maadu....Raja has done 3 genres in one composition! Carnatic segment is pop like TIK TIK TIK

avatharam is folk melody & stunning WCM

oru oorile oru rajakumari, kaalapani,poovarasan, Guru...WCM

desiya geetham....stunning puratchi-wcm song

virumandi.....indian folk with jazz interludes!

ponmegalai,ivan....indian classical music

[San_K]

LLD and Suresh

I feel the (unrealeased) symphony was one of the reasons, probably big reason. But if you see some songs during his Symphony period, we can feel symphony touch. I smell symphony in oru oorla oru raajakumari (vanthal vanthaal & even in oru myna kunchu), devadhai (oru naal) and even in Chinna jameen songs. May be he was thinking what is next move after Symphony and got confusion :lol:

[ravinat]

Suresh's take on Raja's use of ragas and the way he treats CCM is very interesting. I am glad that Suresh has started taking a deeper dive into WCM. I became serious about Raja's music and started realizing his genius only after I saw the outrageous claim (not in any way outrageous after you learn enough WCM) by CSR that Raja is first a a western classical musician and everything else after that. He needs to bring everything new into his WCM framework. And CCM is no exception. Even the formless folk is no exception to this rule. It is my theory, that, somehow he works with this as a guiding principle, though there are exceptions for at least 25% of his compositions. To this date, these 25% exceptions, is the intriguing aspect of the genius. We can debate all we want and have our own pet theories, but he will never clearly articulate his technique/approach to music composition clearly.

Though what I have stated does not really apply to 1994 output of Raja, it applies to all his output in his career. When I tried to get my arms around his slow uptake on electronic music (he has been using synthesizers from the 80s), I went back to my old pet theory of trying to bring electronic music under a WCM umbrella. His struggle in the 90s was that while he was trying to figure out the new sounds within his WCM framework, (similar to his early 80s WCM-CCM, WCM-folk co-existence), he had two issues: 1) his output was limited and the opportunities to experiment were also limited and 2) some of his earlier influencers such as Viji Manuel were not available. It took him a while to figure out.

For those who claim that his 80s was all a bed of roses, there were so many failed experiments that went unnoticed, thanks to his immense volume. As an example, one of his early attempts on Symphonic orchestration that went unnoticed was 'Alaigale Vaa avarudan' sang by SPB and Uma in some unreleased film. Even today, you cannot get a decent version of the song. (it's so full of clicks and cracks). The way SPB has sang this song, is very unique. Later on, he tried and succeeded with 'Manidha Manidha...'.

It is my sense that his output in all these 4 decades has been primarily guided by strong principles of western harmony. In the early 90s, he was more inclined towards using his choir and Carnatic knowledge than releasing experiments of how he would marry electronic sound with WCM.

[Sureshs65]

Sanjeevi.

Jai has also shared the same opinion as you when we started this thread. That the composition of symphony may have something to do with the output of the 90s. I am trying to find evidence for it on the ground and the 1994 output doesn't give us any. There is no major song here with uses a symphonic arrangement. All the songs here are tuned as per the movie requirement. Take 'Periya Marudhu' for example. He does folk as is expected for that film. As I said earlier he seems to have been following a trajectory of his own. Like LL said, we could hear those stunners which we had come to expect from him in the 80s, songs like 'vaa vaa pakkam vaa', or 'ilaya nila' or 'andhi mazhai'. He seemed more interested in tuning soulful numbers like 'vidapulla nesam'. Even this would be a wrong conclusion for there was more variety in the output. All that I can say is that the effort on each song was the same as earlier, with some superb countermelodies in the interludes, but probably done in a more subtle way compared to his earlier output.

[Sureshs65]

Ravi,

Nice analysis. Again I am confused with Raja, especially with respect to his synthesizer work, because at the same time he was 'struggling' in Tamil, he did some outstanding work in Malayalam. Infact I had once stated either here on in comments in your blog that his Malayalam synthesizer work was far superior to even the work of Rahman, in terms of its conception and execution. So that is another data point which we need to analyse. At this point, let me ask if anyone has Raja's year wise output in other languages, especially Malayalam and Telugu

Regarding WCM, what you say is right. Infact I think it is Kiru who was arguing that Raja uses the synthesizer as a replacement for the WCM orchestra and hence the impact sometimes is not as great. My theory is that when Raja used the synth more in the jazz fashion, as is doing now, you can see he is very much at ease with it. In the Malayalam films that is how he was using it. We will come to that as we analyse the later years.

[ravinat]

Suresh

Most of his good work in Malayalam started much after 1994 where he somehow had the opportunity to experiment and he exploited them very well. I do not agree with your view about Malayalam-Jazz-synth as he rarely used it that way in Malayalam. In fact, in the 90s, in Malayalam, he brought a traditional BSO type orchestra into play (Kaala Pani/Guru). Most of his spectacular synth work in the 90s in Malayalam had hardly any Jazz element to it. In Malayalam, he has additional melody focus.

As I mentioned in my post, we can theorize all we want, but nobody knows the reality as Raja never articulates his approach during any decade. His oversimplification of the process as well as his talk about things happen in the spur of the moment never helps. The melody line may happen spontaneously, but the orchestration does not (in my view). He has some process by which he is able to conceive how that melody is supported and when both these elements come together, you have a memorable track. For example, consider 'Kai Veesi' from Nandalala has some fantastic backing lines for 2 synthesizers or how he can think of 'Kannirendil' from Avatharam with similar instrumentation . Kail Veesi is a dense track filled with a lot of words and Kannirendil is a sparse one. How he gives completely different color to these two tracks is where the genius lies.

I can go on and on, but those are my views at the end of the day.

[Sureshs65]

ravi,

The problem I think is more in us trying to fit a genre into Raja's music which is always a problem. Depending on how you view it, you can view it as a straight song, or as a rock ballad or as jazz influenced. He did get the big orchestra for Kalapaani and Guru but for others where he used synth, let me say that he used it in a way which was very different from how he used it in Tamil. (Rather than say jazz.). Songs like 'sivamallipoove' (Friends), 'Virahamay Vipalamaye' or 'Saradhendhu Paadi' (Kaliyoonjal) . This type of movement is generally not observed much in Tamil films. Or for that matter even something so wonderfully driven by synth, 'manjoolum raatri' doesn't really have a counterpart in Tamil.

It is true that Raja's refusal to explain the music creation process hampers our understanding of his music. As you say, he must be taking lot of effort to create the harmonies, the counterpoints etc. And given that it is even more tough to harmonize Indian music, if he talks more about how he does it, it will be of benefit to a lot of interested folks.

[jaiganes]

@Plum - veetla visheshanga was a hit - it was also remade in hindi with anil kapoor, siridevi and nagarjun.
As regards to symphony having impact on raaja's score - I meant that in a not so glorifying fashion - I felt that when he had the
opportunity - he started going more pure "unfused" WCM more so after simpany. result is songs like Maglir mattum - not having the non-traditional detours that used to be cornerstone of raaja- interludes of early and late 80s. So much so - that today when a director asks for a broadway kinda song, raaja gives exactly what the director asked for and we get to hear 'edhaya baagilu ' - beautiful dulcet song - but not fused in the "Raaja Smelt" - like 80s.. It makes me feel that Raaja is past the phase where he needed to play around - he is getting more purist by the time..

[Sureshs65]

Jai,

Aah. Now I get your point and that was exactly the point that I was discussing with the former hubber 'eagle' last month. That Raja has stopped putting his stamp on music using what you correctly call 'non traditional' detours. Instead, he is putting his stamp which sticking to the genre. "Edaya Bagilu' still sounds a Raja and so does 'Chinna Polike'. I think this changeover wasn't fully complete in the 90s but happened fully in the 2000s. Listen to the music of ASK, SRR or Nandalala. Everything is within that genre but everything is distinctly Raja. Ofcourse, 'Tiruvasagam' is the pinnacle where he did everything in WCM but his stamp was absolutely unmistakable. So yes, I agree with you and this has been my personal opinion as well. I believe that many folks who love his 80s music are missing these 'non traditional' detours. In one article Baradwaj Rangan was also alluding to this aspect being absent nowadays.

[V_S]

Sureshji, Ravi, Jai and others. Very interesting analysis about Maestro's style of work in 90s. :clap: :clap: I agree with you all that what could be in his mind during 90s with we can only assume things should have been like this, but that is Maestro's mind for you. :smile: While I agree to most of your thoughts, I would also add that he was composing songs which was sticking to the genres even in 80s. Few disco, pop songs but from the chord progressions and the melody, you can find him clearly though. All I am saying is sticking true to genre is not just happening now, it has been happening right from his early days but very few (miniscule) as the situation demanded those kind of compositions. Even now it is few as you mentioned with Suryakanthi and Om Shanthi. Mostly we can only hear his interpretation to any genre, be it jazz, pop, rock, carnatic, hindustani, folk et al.

[Sureshs65]

Thanks V_S. As you know we can keep analyzing Raja till the cows come home and we would still not have come anywhere near a real understanding. But the joy is in dissecting stuff isn't it? :D

[Sureshs65]

1995

Let us start our analysis of 1995. Here is the list of important movies that came out in 1995.

http://www.thiraipaadal.com/year.php?schYear=1995&lang=en

We see the emergence of Vidyasagar this year and Deva getting more films. Let us do what we did for 1994. That is, ensure we hear atleast one song from each film, with probably an exception or two, and later we will summarize how things moved in 1995. As usual looking forward to your participation and feedback.

In March 1995, I moved to Chennai but the first six months were spent without a TV. And I was not a very regular movie goer. So the 'hit' nature of the song is known to me purely through the top 10 countdown on TV, Sun and Podighai. So if I am missing the 'hit' nature of some song, please feel free to correct.

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 23
Song: Therke Veesum
Film: Kolangal
Singers: Lekha(?), Arunmozhi
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR1713'&lang=en

We start 1995 with a song which was requested by two people, Aakarsh and skr. It took quite some time for me to discover 'Kolangal' album. The one song which used to be played often on TV used to be 'oru kootil kogilam rendu'. The picturization of that song was almost midnight masala style with Jayaram and Kushbu rolling over each other in the beach. In youtube you will find the song under 'Tamil Song Hot' category. (That song was requested by Rajesh. Since I felt this song was more rare, I have put this up. We will put up 'oru kootil' later.)

'therke veesum' has a vintage feel to it. Raja uses these vintage style melodies in three cases, as far as I can see. One, when he wants to do some parody. Think 'madana moha roopa sundari'. Second is when he has to evoke a bygone era like in Nayagan's 'nee sirithal deepavali' or 'janavu le' in Aditya 365. The third is when he uses it like any other melody. I have not seen the picturisation of this song but somehow feel this falls in the third category. (The recent 'aaro padunnu dhoori' will also fall in this category.)

I am not surprised that Aakarsh and skr who heard this recently were so impressed by this number. The strum of the guitar initially and then the keyboard casually evoke an earlier era. The pallavi leaves you in no doubt about it. The melody is super soft and Lekha(?) adds even more tenderness to it. Arunmozhi is his usual self. The first interlude has a lovely WCM section and just when you think it will go the WCM way completely, Raja brings in the flute to get the mood of the melody back. The second interlude has some nice guitar and keyboard work with the flute entering again to get us flowing into the melody. The charanams have some superb guitar strumming as backing. Looks like an acoustic guitar and the bass guitar. They provide most of the rhythmic backing. The whole song is built superbly.

It is indeed a great pity that the songs of 'Kolangal' did not become more popular. Most of the songs are top class. As I had said earlier, such was the Rahman effect that many of us, though we were staying in TN those days, did not bother to buy the tapes of such movies and listen to it. Undoubtedly, the loss is ours.

[Gregorysab]

I know I am late... but I will try to be latest! ok, chuck that bad joke. First of all, a very impressive effort by Suresh to understand Raaja's music of 90s. Its good that there is a certain structure to the effort of understanding. The study is both emperical as well as cognitive, to some extent (having understood Raaja's philosophy of music making since 80s). So naturally, interpretations will be fact-based as well as guess-work. And i will add my bit here.

I concur with Suresh that Raaja did not do anything substantial to counter the new competition/trends. He did go in his own path. And this could be because 1. he was not in touch with the (changing) preferences of people. 2. He was adamant about not changing

I say he was not in touch with preferences because - he still had a good number of films in hand and being a studio-oriented person (and his busy schedules), I really doubt if he consciously assessed/analyzed the new trends. he probably was simply ignorant because he did not see any significant change in the number of people approaching him. he might have also thought that ARR's music would not seriously threat his position. Afterall, there is room for everyone, provided music is accepted by people.
And regarding being adamant, the proceedure of making music hardly changed. What changed however, was the kind of melodies being composed. I cant exactly pinpoint, but somewhere I see a stark difference in the tunes/treatment if we look at pre and post Dalapathi eras. Pre-Dalapathi eras were full of meat. Post-dalapathi era didnt have that "ear-catching" meat. A brilliant 2nd interlude in "Kettaaya kaadhal" (dharmavathi) is something that happened only after 1991/92 and not before it. Now imagine, my 1994 mindset would have told me that it is no match to the interludes of 80s raaja. But now, i derive a different kind of pleasure from that interlude. Overall, I have similar thoughts about his 1994 output. Something was definitely missing, but what was missing - was not necessarily a reaction to ARR's new music yet. It was just that Raaja ventured into thinner instrumentations (no densely packed arrangements) while tunes like vana kuyile emerged to be as complex as 80s. if we even these things - I only get a feeling that Raaja was doing his own thing (and its my theory that he was doing his own thing till 1997/98, after which the confusion phase began... but let me not rub my theory here.. I'd rather like it to be proved or disproved - as the case may be - by examples and by insights from Suresh and other hubbers here).

One thing can be said - when Raaja did not change much, what impact did it have on devoted fans and general juntha. Juntha obviously couldnt understand this phase of Raaja (and found it same old stuff) and hence switched to ARR. devoted fans too, were partially seduced by ARR's new soundscapes and infact wanted their idol to do what ARR is doing, (do something different, something scintillating), within the confines of Raaja's style. So i think it was a clear case of expectation gap. And there raaja lost both his audience. Added to that, external factors such as picturisation etc further divided the gap. But there was nothing Raaja could have done at that time. he could have probably gone back to his 80s kind of melodies (full of fusion, genres etc). But somehow he didnt and we dont know why. Thats probably where lost a section of fans.

Now, as we move into 1995, its interesting to see how things changed further, in the environment around and how he dealt with it.

[Sureshs65]

Infact 'therke veesum' reminds me a lot of 'azhagaana nam pandi naatinile' song in terms of the orchestration. So much of guitar strumming in the American country style.

[San_K]

Suresh Therke veesum is very good song. I had 'Kolangal' cassete (not the original :)) and used to listen all songs. I see same pattern in some kolangal songs and ilaiyaraagam songs both came around same period.

[San_K]

oh yes! in 'azhagaana nam pandi naatinile' too

[Sureshs65]

Aakarsh,

Nice post. As I had earlier said, it is not that Raja could not do the 80s again. He can do it even now. The fact was, as Jai and I have argued, Raja was probably moving away from that style of 80s into being more closer to the genre he was dealing with and at the same time leaving behind his stamp.

Another thing we need to understand is, like P_R says, what we are analyzing is more a urban phenomenon. In places like Madurai, P_R says that Raja was definitely part of their lives till late 90s atleast. So some of the songs of 1994, though may not have played much on TV shows, played a lot on radios and buses in interior Tamilnadu.

1995 is an interesting year. There are atleast two albums here which will easily go into his all time best albums.

[Gregorysab]

Suresh,

what a wonderful start to 1995. I was indeed taken in by Therkae veesum... I was surprised that I didnt listen to it till now. This is an unusual song. things that stand out:

1. The 1st line of the song is unusually lengthy.
2. Arun Mozhi (cant help it - i wish someone else sang this)
3. There is no Major percussion at all - the most standout feature of this song (which is also its own curse, will explain). Everything is resting on guitar strumming only.
4. Those interludes.

Now this song again gives you the feeling of Raja Lite because it doesnt have any percussions at all. The overall feeling it gives is that the song is NOT having the kind of arrangements that Raaja is famous for. plus, tell me honestly, how many people can really sing this song? I tried singing the 1st line and i felt it was tricky. Which means, the catchiness was missing. Doesnt dent the melody in any way, but the song cannot have a grip on people if it isnt catchy - or so was the trend by 1994. And this catchiness as a key aspect was not started by ARR in my opinion. It was started by Raaja himself. But, his catchiness songs had some other key-takeaways also, which used to lure the fans while juntha used to be swayed by catchiness. examples: Rakkamma kaiyya thattu, konji konji, telugu songs of Raaja etc. The kind of complex tune that he composed for this particular song was unusual. Added to that, no densely packed layers or arrangements because there was no percussion at all. And.. Raaja does it.. when new percussive sounds were coming out, not just electronic but even traditional (even ARR's vaadi saathukudi song had thavil dominating the song, unusual for those times when percussions largely meant either tabla or synthpads).

So here we have a noncatchy-tune + percussion-less song (where guitar strumming is the only sense of rhythm) coming at a time when catchy tunes with new percussive elements were winning over people. Clearly he swam against the tide. and we know the result. Its only today that we have the maturity to ignore the lack of percussions and admire the composition as a whole (its complex tune + those interludes). Its neither fans' fault nor Raaja's, that this song was not a hit. Raaja experimented. Fans couldnt grasp the new experiment then. thats all.

[Sureshs65]

Sanjeevi,

Thanks. We will be seeing 'ilayaragam' song soon. Rajesh has already put up a request.

[Sureshs65]

Suresh,

Raaja experimented. Fans couldnt grasp the new experiment then. thats all.

Exactly. By that time the meaning of experimentation has completely changed to newer sounds, newer beats and newer samples. Anyway, as Raja told an interviewer in late 90s when asked where he was, he replied, "I have always been there. You are the ones who did not see me. But I am sure they will see my work one day." The confidence of a genius. And yes, we are seeing it today. 'therke veesum' is an excellent example of top class experimentation.

[ravinat]

Coincidentally, I covered Raja's percussion arrangement innovations in 1995, in a single post on my blog, covering Kolangal, Ilaya ragam and Avatharam...

http://geniusraja.blogspot.com/2009/10/rajas-rhythm-innovation-stage-12.html

[Sureshs65]

Ravi,

Yes. I remember that post because I had commented there :D Nice write up. The 'tamizhan padaicha' from 'Kolangal' is even more amazing rhythm wise. Infact I would say 'Kolangal' is a rhythmic delight.

[Shank]

Suresh65, how does one submit requests to you?

In any case, can you also review one of my favorite 1995 films (musically) ...Paatu Paadava? Poongatrile is a superb song with a complex structure while Nil, nil and Vazhi vidu were big hits as well...

[rajeshkrv]

Song No: 23
Song: Therke Veesum
Film: Kolangal
Singers: Lekha(?), Arunmozhi
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR1713'&lang=en

We start 1995 with a song which was requested by two people, Aakarsh and skr. It took quite some time for me to discover 'Kolangal' album. The one song which used to be played often on TV used to be 'oru kootil kogilam rendu'. The picturization of that song was almost midnight masala style with Jayaram and Kushbu rolling over each other in the beach. In youtube you will find the song under 'Tamil Song Hot' category. (That song was requested by Rajesh. Since I felt this song was more rare, I have put this up. We will put up 'oru kootil' later.)

'therke veesum' has a vintage feel to it. Raja uses these vintage style melodies in three cases, as far as I can see. One, when he wants to do some parody. Think 'madana moha roopa sundari'. Second is when he has to evoke a bygone era like in Nayagan's 'nee sirithal deepavali' or 'janavu le' in Aditya 365. The third is when he uses it like any other melody. I have not seen the picturisation of this song but somehow feel this falls in the third category. (The recent 'aaro padunnu dhoori' will also fall in this category.)

I am not surprised that Aakarsh and skr who heard this recently were so impressed by this number. The strum of the guitar initially and then the keyboard casually evoke an earlier era. The pallavi leaves you in no doubt about it. The melody is super soft and Lekha(?) adds even more tenderness to it. Arunmozhi is his usual self. The first interlude has a lovely WCM section and just when you think it will go the WCM way completely, Raja brings in the flute to get the mood of the melody back. The second interlude has some nice guitar and keyboard work with the flute entering again to get us flowing into the melody. The charanams have some superb guitar strumming as backing. Looks like an acoustic guitar and the bass guitar. They provide most of the rhythmic backing. The whole song is built superbly.

It is indeed a great pity that the songs of 'Kolangal' did not become more popular. Most of the songs are top class. As I had said earlier, such was the Rahman effect that many of us, though we were staying in TN those days, did not bother to buy the tapes of such movies and listen to it. Undoubtedly, the loss is ours.

Suresh nice song indeed. I did request Oru kootil ,though it was popular for obvious reasons it's musical aspect was not appreciated or talked about . It's always considered as "A" song. that's the reason i requested that song in this forum

another song from the same movie was "Nethu pathale" which again is a very different style of raja (i guess it's picturised on sanjay & sangavi )

[Sureshs65]

Shank,

You just post your request here and I will note it down and put it up in the appropriate year. In this year I will put up the 'Paatu Paadava' song you have pointed to. In 1995, if you have any other rare song request, just write it here and I will take it from there. And 'Paatu Paadave' is a real treat isn't it. What lovely songs.

Rajesh,

That is very true. It probably did not get as famous as it should have because of the 'A' tag. I will put it up soon. Other song from that same movie, 'tamizhan padaicha' has some amazing rhythms. I will put it up if we have time. That's also a very innovative song. Infact, 'Kolangal' is an excellent album in terms of innovation.

[Plum]

rendu'. The picturization of that song was almost midnight masala style with Jayaram and Kushbu rolling over each other in the beach. In youtube you will find the song under 'Tamil

One of those songs where Mano was so apt. His cry of anguish(unintentional) in some of the notes coincides with Khushboo inflicting her huge body rolling over Jayaram. I am not kidding myself that Mano matched his singing to the emotion on screen. I guess Mano's natural state suited the moment very well :)

pAttu pAdavA - wasongs were a a big hit but with SPB on screen, unsupported by Raghuman and Lavanya(freshly minted Miss Madras of the year, a local figure in our neighbourhood previously :)), the movie was a disaster.
Till date I havent found out who sung Poongatrilae, though.

Suresh - interesting thread but I am not able to relate completely yet. nInga solRadhu nambaRA mAdhiriyum irukku, konjam reservationsum irukku. I am unable to come out of app-masala mode. pAkkalAm...

[Sureshs65]

Plum,

Do take your time to come in but you must come in because you are also one of those who follows Raja and movies closely. I am bad at watching movies and haven't seen most of these movies. So you and others who are also good movie watchers can relate to the songs even better.

[Plum]

suresh - yAru nAnA? 1993 to 1999 - nAn pArthadhu vonly a few telugu movies in Hyderabad to accompany room mates. 1990sla: 1991 - Anjali, 1992 - Thevar Magan, 1993 - Chinna Gounder. ambuttu dhaEn.

[rajeshkrv]

as mentioned before please refrain from bashing singers and focus on the topic. Mano was good in oru kootil and we all heard it hundred times

[Plum]

Sorry rajeshkrv. Mano was awesome in Siru koottil. indha ulagathula elLAmE aRpudham.
yArai paththiyum thappAvE pEsa koodAdhu - pEsinA ulagam azhinjidum. enakku endha karuththu irundhAlum inimE "nalladhE" post paNdrEn. enna, "awesome", "goood", "beautiful" idhukkellAm meaning illAma pOyidum - paravA illai. English lAnguage indha izhappai thAngi koLLAdhA?

[jaiganes]

Suresh nice song indeed. I did request Oru kootil ,though it was popular for obvious reasons it's musical aspect was not appreciated or talked about . It's always considered as "A" song. that's the reason i requested that song in this forum

another song from the same movie was "Nethu pathale" which again is a very different style of raja (i guess it's picturised on sanjay & sangavi )

We also have the responsibility to point out that in albums like "Priyanka" - the 'countdown' syndrome of 90s in TVs meant that only one or two songs from an album got the complete air time - which means that the wonderful breezy folk songs like "Indha jilla muzhukka", "Vettukkili vetti vandha" or the emotionally charged song like "Durga Durga" never got heard by most of the population except the ones who went to the theatres. I wish similar trend does not befall this discussion as well.

[jaiganes]

Sorry rajeshkrv. Mano was awesome in Siru koottil. indha ulagathula elLAmE aRpudham.
yArai paththiyum thappAvE pEsa koodAdhu - pEsinA ulagam azhinjidum. enakku endha karuththu irundhAlum inimE "nalladhE" post paNdrEn. enna, "awesome", "goood", "beautiful" idhukkellAm meaning illAma pOyidum - paravA illai. English lAnguage indha izhappai thAngi koLLAdhA?
Just observe.. Rajesh is saying that Mano was good - not 'very good' or 'awesome'... so just update your dictionary and begin the scale with "good" instead of "disgusting" - then everyone can be happy.

[Sureshs65]

Jai,

Very pertinent point. I am trying consciously to cover as many genres as possible. Please feel free to point out if I something is missed. And I am trying hard not to chose any set of songs which may fortify any theory I am holding. Hence I am requesting folks to give their recos, especially of not so popular songs.

[app_engine]

so just update your dictionary and begin the scale with "good" instead of "disgusting"

adhAvadhu the dictionary should be like this:

Fat, physical state of being bulky, e.g. Omakuchchi Narasimhan

Obese,defintion / ejjAmple etc

correctA?
:-)

[KV]

Sureshji, this thread's going great! :clap: (though a bit of vaama minnal pace for me :oops:)
Therkae veesum is utterly beautiful! (despite the ordinary job on the vocals). The man packs in some much in the song yet makes it appear so light. Me got the same problem as Aakarsh - I just cant seem to get the pallavi fully right while trying to sing along! Some random points:

1) The tune is tricky and as if that wasn't enough, the sandham placement too is quite tricky.

2) That little rhythm section (1st 20secs) in the prelude with the synth tabla beats is again done interestingly. No 'straight' beats there either; try keeping beat with the punctuation - good fun!

3) The pallavi, I think, is shankarabharanam (there's also an M2 in there; probably for syncopation). The charanams - it took a while for me to kinda understand what he was doing there. Though I ain't fully sure yet, I think he shifts the Sa to Ga (the bedham making it thodi?). The first two lines (starting from 2:14 - 2:30) are in this scale. The next two lines shift back to the original scale (2:31 - 2:40). And the next couple of lines back to previous. Then I kinda lost track! I think he mixes the two till it finally merges into the original scale. (@Raaja... yOv, yenna velayaattu idhu.. huh? :evil:).
Raagam experts kindly come to the panchayat and talk your talk.

[V_S]

Song No: 23
Song: Therke Veesum
Film: Kolangal
Singers: Lekha(?), Arunmozhi
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR1713'&lang=en
Suresh ji,

Superb song to kick start 1995, very special as you said because the rhythm is derived without percussion. Somehow I feel tune-wise, there is MSV's touch to this song, mainly the way it starts. Whenever I hum this song, it takes me to Thendral adhu unnidaththil solli vaitha sEdhi ennavo from Andha 7 Naatkal, but that is just the starting lines. First interlude is a beauty. Again from this song, we cannot conclude he was not responding to the competition, as we can hear clearly he diluted his power in the orchestration just to be simple. Again, this change may be for the movie situation itself. As aakarsh rightly observed, people were not interested much, may be they were tired of the singer choices more than the tunes and the interludes. Also, they were not reaching to every IR albums as they were doing earlier. The main reason being (again my vague guess), since they were exposed to his music for the past almost 2 decades "with heavy density", they wanted a change. Just imagine a listener was being treated at an average of 40 films per year (for 2 decades), and they didn't have to seek another one, as they were given everything they wanted. Even this boon became a bane to him, how?

Maestro is the one who took the listeners' taste to next level to the maximum extent possible. He improved their listening skills by providing unexpected ludes, unexpected orchestration, authentic folk tunes, gave them a big platform to analyze his music in every possible way. Still to be precise, I knew these terms; interludes, post-lude, prelude, orchestration, symphony, BGM, chord progression, Raja's stamp et al only from Maestro's compositions. I certainly hope this is true for many who started listening to Maestro's music in 70s. I also never knew that this is a folk song until Maestro arrived. I used to hear from my elder friends first time they were talking about these genres (I didn't know what was that), WCM, harmony and what not. I never heard these terms being associated to other composers. He even influenced listeners to learn various instruments. Even a dummy like me now knows (or atleast having interest to know) these terms is all because of his music. This is the boon I am talking about. We are all ekalvya's from Drona's school of music. The best part is we didn't even have to lose our fingers to learn his music. Those who moved away didn't even want to remember where they came from.

After lifting listeners music taste to abnormal levels, now they have a option to think in every possible terms now. That's what happened and that became a bane to him and to music overall. Ditch him and ask him if he can do like this and that. If the question is good, then we agree, but most of the times, the questions were plain and silly. Even when he responded, they were not interested. More young music lovers joined the fun without even listening (not just hearing) to Maestro's music a bit. Maestro, even when he was showing his intelligence/brilliance in giving wonderful compositions day after day, he was not clever enough to, whom to give this music to and when to give music. He was giving them abundantly. This back-fired. Musically, I don't see any deterioration right from 70s till today even with his changed approach, people became very clever, thanks to Maestro.

[app_engine]

theRkE veesum...first time listen, mixed feelings

kiLiyai vaLarththu...kadhai, that too when the orchestration is going to be a "diet" version, the song cried for singers of KJY / KSC calibre to do justice.

kObam varuthu :-(

(exactly same problem with another song I recently had a chance to hear for the first time 'arumbum thaLirE'...even the construct is quite similar)

[Plum]

Sei Kanesu - "Good" is not subjective? enakku "Good"-A illainAlum, ungaLukkAga inge vandhu good-nus ollaNumA?

appO AVM Rajan was "good"-nu sollunga, IMO, if you say AVM Rajan is good, your "NT is great" is immediately devalued.

indha panchayathu dhAn pala varushamA sollikitturukkEn.

There has to be degree in appreciation - and there should be accomodation of opinions. indhu munnaNi mAdhiri offend AgaRadhukkunnE kazhugu mAdhiri kAthirundhAl, this society becomes a useless place to live in...

[app_engine]

This is where rAsA of 80's remain supreme.

He knew (and we too know) that Krishnachandar wasn't going to be anywhere near the top class singers. Unless ofcourse he improves over a period of time (which never happened and he disappeared from the scene).

So, variety of tricks were deployed those days, like:
a) to have a terrific female singer as a complement (aLLi vachcha malligaiyE, all the deficiencies were masked by PS)
b) use only for vichithira song, with kOmALi orch (pudichchAlum pudichchEN puthusAka pudichchEn)
c) have not only a terrific co-singer but also pump in grand orch (all of us know the song, no need to tell which kOzhi koovified with KC)

None of these are in this 'theRkE veesum', simply shows that IR was overconfident - or ahankAram may be ("nAn koduppathaikkEtpadhu unga thalai vithi").

No wonder the song is like a "puncture Ana tyre" :oops:

[udebaqifoz]

"I have always been there. You are the ones who did not see me. But I am sure they will see my work one day."

We are not worthy *writes it 1008 times*.

[udebaqifoz]

Suresh ji,

This is the boon I am talking about. We are all ekalvya's from Drona's school of music.
Cannot agree more. Very well said.

[udebaqifoz]

1995. PAttu PAdavA and RAjAvin PArvaiyilE are two flopbusters which had some outstanding songs. Vazhividu Vazhividu (I prefer Raaja's voice to SPB's there. Yes, judge me :)), Iniya Ganam (rap to qawwali to carnatic to rock in 2 mins) and Nil Nil Nil. That entire album was incredible.

Kottunga Kottunga needs to be spoken about here. I remember reading about it in Violin Vicky's blog long back. Discovered the song there only a few years back. Awesome song (again, wish someone other than Arunmozhi had sung it :().

Also, Oru Oorule Rajakumari had some lovely songs. Looking forward to it.

[baroque]

the composition doesn't make any emotional impact for me! I don't crawl back to the composition!
Chithra's solo ULLASA POONGKATRE......:musicsmile: is a beauty in this album!
It was and still remains my favorite in this album!

[Sureshs65]

Regarding criticism of singers: Since we are into the analysis mode, I think speaking specifically about a singer for a particular song and inferring if the songs popularity or lack of it was due to the singer(s) is fine. We cannot escape that when we are analysing how the people reacted to a particular song. The only danger here is that we take our assessment of the singer as the generally accepted assessment of the singer. In the sense that there could be lot of people who didn't have a problem with the said singer and the song was very popular. I think that is what Rajesh was alluding to in his earlier post.

So my request is that we do discuss the contribution of the singer to the song, positive or negative, but at the same time also bring in some subjectivity by seeing if the song did not become popular _only_ because of the singers. In many cases of Raja songs, I don't think it may have been the case.

I am also wary of another aspect here. Some of us have clear favorites and also very clear views of those singers who are not upto the mark. For example, I cannot rate _any_ song sung by Shabbir Kumar or Mohd. Aziz to be good and the same applies to almost 95% of songs sung by Kumar Sanu. And all of them had major hits. Shabbir Kumar with his 'jab hum jawan hoge', Mohd Aziz with songs from 'Mard' and Kumar Sanu from 'Aashiqi', 'Saajan', '1942' etc. Now every song of their will come under criticism from me. I can't think of even one song where I would praise them. (I know Aakarsh will agree with me :) Atleast the Shabbir Kumar and Mohd Aziz part ) In such circumstances, I going after each of their songs with the same criticism may not add value. Kindly take care of this aspect as well.

In short, we will take criticism of the singer wrt to the song being discussed, but for sake of the overall analysis also kindly ask the question if the song failed to capture the imagination just because of the singer. For, in this section atleast, we are more interested in the overall effect of the song on the masses and the inherent qualities in the song. Singers are only part of the equation. I don't want debate on all songs to go that way. Hope everyone understands the concern.

[Sureshs65]

V_S,

If there is one thing I am certain of, it is that the depth of music that Raja provides will ensure there are enough people who will come to him. As you learn music you have no choice but go to him. And you are spot on. Today, if I have an urge to learn more about harmony, counterpoints etc, it is due to Raja's music. And we don't need to despair. Lot of youngsters are discovering Raja regularly. Even our VG who posts here is in his early twenties. So there you go. I am very confident of Raja's music staying alive long after we have all left this world.

[Sureshs65]

app,

While I am not a great fan of Arunmozhi's vocals (and have said so here) in this particular song I will differ from you in the sense that he was adequate. (I have no arguments that it could have been better if KJY had sung). Second, I don't think it is Raja's ahankaram here. My feeling is that Raja follows a particular philosophy wrt to most singers. That the singers need not do too much with respect to bhavam. The tune should such that if they sing the tune correctly the bhavam must manifest itself. Just last Friday, there was an interview with Shreya Ghoshal where she said she was learning Tamil so that she could add more 'bhavam' to the songs. When she said this to Raja, he is supposed to have told her that she need not worry about bhavam and all and if she sang the song as taught to her, the bhavam would appear automatically. In other words, as my friend @arulselvan says on twitter, Raja uses voices like instruments.

[Sureshs65]

VG,

'Rajavin Paarvailyile' and 'Paatu Paadava' will definitely be featured. Two superb albums, the movies being washouts.

Vinatha,

I love 'therke vessum' a lot and also 'oru kootil'.

[Gregorysab]

For example, I cannot rate _any_ song sung by Shabbir Kumar or Mohd. Aziz to be good and the same applies to almost 95% of songs sung by Kumar Sanu. And all of them had major hits. Shabbir Kumar with his 'jab hum jawan hoge', Mohd Aziz with songs from 'Mard' and Kumar Sanu from 'Aashiqi', 'Saajan', '1942' etc. Now every song of their will come under criticism from me. I can't think of even one song where I would praise them. (I know Aakarsh will agree with me :) Atleast the Shabbir Kumar and Mohd Aziz part )

What made you think that Kumar Sanu will scrape through my ire :-)!! if I listen to 1942 A Love Story, its purely because of R.D.Burman and never because of Kumar Sanu! No wonder it was RD's last film! poor soul!

[Sureshs65]

What made you think that Kumar Sanu will scrape through my ire :-)!! if I listen to 1942 A Love Story, its purely because of R.D.Burman and never because of Kumar Sanu! No wonder it was RD's last film! poor soul!

:lol: :lol:

[Sureshs65]

Song No: 24
Song: Marudhani Chaaru
Film: Illayaragam
Singers: Chitra, Mano and chorus
Lyrics:
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR1099'&lang=en

This song is a request from Rajesh and this is the first time I am hearing it. I must also confess that this is also first time I am hearing the name of the film !! Any idea who was in this movie? Was it released? Would like Rajesh to also give his comments on what he likes about this song.

There is indeed a lot to like about this song. First and foremost, this is an excellent experimental song. All those who talk today about breaking rule, no structure etc, should listen to this to understand how such rule breaking can be done and still the song unity kept intact. That was Raja's main concern. Change from one raga to another, change from one rhythm to another, mix and match various but never break the unity of the song. That is his signature and throughout his songs he maintains this philosophy. You can see that in work here as well.

The start is almost a war cry. Then we have that interesting rhythm with the drums as well as the drum sticks playing together. The pallavi is folkish in nature with some nice vocal harmonies supporting it. It is interesting how he keeps the harmonies going almost till the end of the pallavi. The first interlude is a mix of guitar and the synth. It is in the charanam that the experimental nature comes to the fore. The first two lines are supported only by vocal harmonies, the next two lines have tabla accompanying them and then the tabla goes away with the drums now providing the accompaniment. What a crazy charanam. So much done by the way of rhythm and yet seems so organic. The second interlude is very interesting with accordion like sound making its appearance.

We must probably go back to the earlier post that Aakarsh wrote as to why this sort of experimentation did not catch the attention in those times. As I had said earlier, the emphasis then was on certain 'coolness' that the off the shelf loops and samples provided. And the structures were simple with ear catching pallavi lines. Whereas the pallavi line of this song, as well as the 'therke veesum thenral' is quite lengthy and complicated. It has an anupallavi sort of line as well. All not in keeping with the trend of those times. But we must be happy that Raja decided not to worry about such trends and did a song like this because, all said and done, we can appreciate it now.

[app_engine]

Raja uses voices like instruments.

:-)

Sometime during the 90's, there was an article / analysis in either vikatan or kumudam about the compensation package for TFM MD. (That was possibly the change originally engineered by IR or his illustrious successor).

It stated that instead of simply compensating the MD exclusively for his creativity / output with X amount of rupees, the compensation was on a 'turn-key' style delivery mode. (i.e. Y amount of rupees to the MD and he'll deliver the songs / BGM as needed and should take care of the expenses related to singers / instrumentalists / recording theater vAdagai etc).

The article also concluded that with expenses going up steeply, the MD hardly takes anything home nowadays.

Looking back, that article makes some sense...even IR was under pressure that way to strip down orch, use cheaper singers etc for cheaper projects (as otherwise he'll have to spend from his packet). One has to also look at a comment by IR in this context (praising Nasar for bigger budget for the movie dEvadhai).

I guess Arunmozhi is part of some 'sikkana nadavadikkai' by IR in project manager mode...(both time & cost management).

[skr]

Therke Veesum is a stunner every way you look at it ..
I would categorize 95-97 as the complicated years if Raaja where he was experimenting and doing lots of fascinating things which somehow escaped the attention of the normal music listener..Songs such as this one , Nil Nil Badhil Sol (Where there is a Graha Bedham in the prelude in almost every line) , Shiv Shainya , the entire Guru Album ..
But what i like is that he keeps the overall tune simple but plays around in the other elements ..(Some scathe Sharath that he deliberately tries to compose tough songs)

Coming to this song ..i have been humming this tune since last night and been bazooked and taken aback by the rhythm pattern and there is also G.Bedham happening..
Arun Mozhi has done a decent job , but for konjal songs like this would have preferred SPB who wud have elevated the song even further ..

The song begins with a bright rhythm followed by the guitar strumming and then a nice jazzy sax element..
The stanza of the Pallavi is very long , not sure if ive heard such a long passage ..

Magic #1 - Rhythm
The magic of the rhythm begins in the Pallavi itself..The song is in Adhi Thalam , count every syllable as 1 beat and you will decipher some mystery..It goes like this

Sa Sa Ni3 Da2 | Pa Ma2 Pa Da2 | Ma2 Pa Ga3 Ma1|Ri2 Ga3 Sa Ni3 | Sa Ga3 Pa Ni3 | Sa ~ ~ ~ | ~ ~ ~ ~ | ~ ~ ~ ~ || [~ indicates note sustainance]
When you count each swara as one syllable , you get 32 totally ..divided into 4 in each bar which is the Chatushra Nadai ..
These are the swaras from Therke Veesum to Solla Solla ..One 32 for male and one 32 for female resulting in 64 totally ..

Now from Enna Vendum onwards , there is a shift in Nadai and it changes to Waltz in Tisram Pattern ..As it goes as Ta Ka Ta Ka , dividing it as 6 instead of 3
|Ni3 Sa Ri2 Ni3 Sa Da2 | Ni3 Sa Ri2 Ni3 Sa Da2 | Ni3 Sa Ni2 Da2 Pa ~ | ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ||
You get 24 here and when Chitra sings humming a similar passage , i expected another 24 which will be 24+24=48 and thought he will do 16 with Chatushra Nadai and come back to square one but expect the unexpected with Raaja and there i was crackling my head and thinking something was missing and going haywire ..
When Chitra sings , you get a total of only 22 and not 24 ..you will know it when you count it manually by tapping your hands..
The swaras when Chitra sing are as follows ;
|Ni3 Sa Ri2 Ni3 Sa Da2 | Ni3 Sa Ri2 Ni3 Sa Da2 | Ni Da Pa ~ | ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ||
When both of them sing Yeeen , you would see that Arunmozhi has an extended part with 2 syllables extra as compared to Chitra ..So we get only 22 notes when Chechi sings as compared to the 24 when Napolean Sir renders ..so now we have 24+22=46 ..how it becomes 48 is when Arunmozhi sings Inum which is 2 syllables ..after that he sings 4 bars of 4 notes each to make it 16 , thus resulting in 64 (24+22+2+16) ..This is a pure masterstroke ..Do try it out , you will be mesmerised , i guess shd do a small audio humming the swaras for easy understanding ..

Magic #2 - Graha Bedham
The Charanam is jaw droppingly brilliant where there is a pattern evolving..It starts off in the original scale (C Major - Shankarabaranam) in the first 2 lines and then shifts scale making the Ga as the Sa resulting in a minor scale (Natabhairavi) and then its back to the original scale , then again swinging back forth to the new scale and here new notes also get introduced making it look like Bahudari/Karnataka Khamas ..
I feel the song overall is based on the raga Suddha Sarang as it uses both the Ma's quite judiciously and also draws a little parallel to Adhi Bhagwan from the album Baba Pugazh Maalai..

Apart from the magic of the rythm and scale change , we get an overdose of brilliance in the interludes ..Its just too much to take but no complaints whatsoever ..
Indha madhri ellam epdi ideas flow aagardhunu therila ..Kuduthu vechurkanum for listening to songs like this ..Been listening to the same song for the past 2 hours :)

A periya Kumbudu :bow: to Raaja Sir for conceiving such a landmark song..
:clap: :clap: infinite times

[Sureshs65]

app,

I think what you have alluded to is something which must have happened. Unfortunately since we are not privy to such things we can only guess. But I think there is lot of logic in what you say as well.

[Sureshs65]

skr,

Super analysis. Thanks and continue the good work.

The rhythm pattern in the pallavi is quite common as far as Raja is concerned I would say. What is being done here is that the last line that Arunmozhi sings has the 'athetha edupu' as the call, a beat before the samam. Though Chitra stops two beats before the samam, one beat is taken by the strumming and Arunmozhi starts a beat before the samam. This helps in getting the stress on the second syllable and is a technique often used, by Raja and also by other MDs. The more interesting aspect here is what you have mentioned about shifting from a chatusra pattern to a tisram one. Raja does a lot of such things especially to ensure there is a certain asymmetry in the songs. So when things are going on in the normal 4,4,4 pattern, he will suddenly start one line one beat away so you get a 3,4,4 pattern. Or he will make it 3,4,5,8 type of pattern. His mind, when it comes to rhythm works in strange ways :)

[V_S]

Even if we agree to this to some extent, if a MD knows who are all working with him, will he accept whatever the producers give and be happy whatever is left (or not), after giving other musicians their allowances. It may be applicable to few producers, but not all. Will he not demand the price based on the singers/musicians he choose and also the number of songs he composes?

I think the musicians who work with him will be salary based (monthly) and singers will be on-call basis, right? So, not sure if that package will work every time.

[Sureshs65]

V_S,

Agree. It could be a partly true but not the whole truth.

[skr]

Hi Suresh ,
Raaja has done some mindblowing work with regards to Rhythm and Scale Changes ..Atleast there must be 100s of songs with different rhythmical patterns and also scale changes ..
He keeps us on his toes and its always a self battle trying to configure newer nuances in his music..
Atheetha Eduppu is a normal thing for Raaja , but what was amazing was the ability to do it in the middle of the song ..When he shifted the nadai , i thought he will do a 24 and another 24 and get even by doing a 16 (which is half of 32) to come to an even keel ..I really thought something was amiss esp when both sing the same melody , Chitra's appeared a bit shorter and was getting me flummoxed..
This is more so a difficult song to follow as there is no backing rhythm and all we hear is just the guitar strumming..
A totally out of the world extraordinary composition which unfortunately like many havent got its due..

[app_engine]

V_Sji & Sureshji,

Such modus operandi was possibly introduced by IR initially (remember his speech in the director's meet when he stressed that he is "music DIRECTOR").

Also, film industry doesn't work with any kind of "fixed rules" you see, unlike gov :-) Even with the movie directors, there are a variety of arrangements ("first copy basis" is what Gautam reportedly works which is different from some newbies who'll run with what producer / disti / financier dictates).

That way, IR's work method was possibly flexible / varied as well. For e.g. if Kamal wants to sing or make SPB the singer for a Raj Kamal movie, IR wouldn't have argued with him for cost-cutting :lol2:

The other thing is the phenomenal compensation changes / cost increase for music (in a movie's budget) after the arrival of ARR. (I read somewhere that MSV was shocked to see his fat paycheck for singing a song in sangamam.) That way, top singers would have preferred not to sing for uppumA movies / producers. MDs started saving on instrumentalists (by using synthesised stuff / programming themselves etc).

Sorry for the dig - this cost / time management in TFM making is a big topic in itself.

I thought there's some relevance w.r.t. IR's songs becoming "unheard" :oops:

[skr]

Suresh ,

Nice explanation of Marudhani Chaaru ..First time listen for me
Again he has infused so many elements and experimented a lot..
The rhythm , chorus and melody structure are all top notch.

Songs such as this perfectly highlight the evolution of Raaja as a composer.

[Sureshs65]

app,

I guess it is definitely relevant. My only problem is that we don't have much data in the public domain to conclude anything unambiguously. But from whatever sources I have heard, with the arrival of Rahman the compensation for artists did go up. Again, it is hearsay, so I cannot write it in blood.

[Sureshs65]

skr,

Very true. Lot of experimentation happening in these songs.

[Plum]

What made you think that Kumar Sanu will scrape through my ire :-)!! if I listen to 1942 A Love Story, its purely because of R.D.Burman and never because of Kumar Sanu! No wonder it was RD's last film! poor soul!



Please treat singers with respect. Some of us find Kumar Sanu good. Please respect our feelings. Do not slag off singers arbitrarily. I am hurt. I am offended. iyAm indhu munnaNi. iyAm Kumar Sanu...Ok, scratch the last one. Come on apologise to me for hurting my feelings.Suresh, you too, for LOL at this post.

[V_S]

:lol::lol:
:rotfl2:

[San_K]

Suresh ,

Nice explanation of Marudhani Chaaru ..First time listen for me.

:shock: it was good hit especially in TN B & C centres since they like folk tunes always.

[San_K]

<dig>

Mano said in Super Singer Junior telecasted today that he has sung around 22000 songs :shock: and totally more than 45K (cinema + non-cinema) really?

</dig>

[Sureshs65]

San_K,

Yes, that divide did exist in the 90s. Raja was still a part of life in the B&C centers while Rahman was taking over most of mindspace in the A centers (or particularly Chennai)

[San_K]

Suresh, even today in villages, folk songs are very special for them.

[Plum]

Ashha pAtti(ok Asha ammA - Usha Sankar is prowling these spaces now carefulLA irukkaNum) claims she is in Guiness for a measly 15K songs. appO SPB, SJ, and hmmm...er...Mano ivanga ellAm 30K= irundhum En guinessla illai?

[app_engine]

-dig-

From wiki :



In 1974, The Guinness Book of Records (http://www.mayyam.com/wiki/The_Guinness_Book_of_Records) listed Lata Mangeshkar as the most recorded artist in the history, stating that she had reportedly recorded "not less than 25,000 solo, duet and chorus backed songs in 20 Indian languages" between 1948 and 1974.

Her record was contested by Mohammed Rafi (http://www.mayyam.com/wiki/Mohammed_Rafi), who was claimed to have sung around 28,000 songs.[4] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-howfair-3)[22] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-how_fair_raju6-21) After Rafi's death, in its 1984 edition, the Guinness Book of World Records stated Lata Mangeshkar's name for the "Most Recordings", but also stated Rafi's claim.

The later editions of Guinness Book stated that Lata Mangeshkar had sung no fewer than 30,000 songs between 1948 and 1987.[23] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-22)Although the entry has not been printed in Guinness editions since 1991, several sources claim that she has recorded thousands of songs, with estimates ranging up to figures as large as 50,000.[24] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-23)[25] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-24)

However, even the earliest Guinness claim of 25,000 songs (between 1948–1974) was claimed to be exaggerated by several other sources, with one of them stating that the number of songs sung by Lata Mangeshkar in Hindi (http://www.mayyam.com/wiki/Hindi) films till 1991 was found to be 5250.[26] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-25)[27] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-26)[28] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-Majumdar2009-27)

Mangeshkar herself stated that she does not keep a record of the number of songs recorded by her, and that she did not know from where Guinness Book editors got their information.[29] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-28)

In 2011 Asha Bhosle was officially acknowledged by Guinness as the most recorded artist in music history, surpassing Mangeshkar.[6] (http://www.mayyam.com/talk/#cite_note-newrec-5)


end-dig

[Plum]

oru nALaikku 3 pattunu vechukittAlum

45000/3 = 15000 days = 42 years in work days. oru varushathukku maximum enan oru 250 days work paNNi irukka mudiyin? sari, 300 daysnE vechuppOm. apdinnA kooda 61 years spanla dhAn mudiyin. Exaggerationku oru aLavE illaiyA?

adhvum Mano ellam 30 varusham dhAn total experienceE? :shock:

[Nerd]

avaru bathroom-la paaduRadhaiyum count panniruppaar.

[Sureshs65]

Guys, guys. Please. Lets not have this digression here please. I am sure there are other threads available to discuss the number of songs Mano sang.

[San_K]

Suresh65 adhellam mudiyaathu :lol: we have to correct wrong figures :)

BTW watching Engiruntho Azhaikkum by Mano at isaiaruvi

[Plum]

suresh - unga bayam puriyudhu. krv varadhukuLLA nadaiya kattidaROm :)

San-K - wrongO figureO right figureO, figurenAlE correct paNdradhu dhAnE dharmam?

[San_K]

@plum :lol: Mano figura correct pannni enna panna poreer :lol2:

[thumburu]

Song No: 16
Song: Thenral Katre
Film: Atharmam
Singers: Mano
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR0322'&lang=en

Songs about nature always seem to inspire music directors and lyricists. Raja has given us some wonderful tunes when it comes to nature. 'Sendhaazham Poovil' and 'Puththam Pudhu Kaalai' are two outstanding examples. This is a song about nature and the singer's interaction with nature. The song replicates perfectly 'thullum vellam', a flowing stream. As with the stream, which jumps with joy over the rocks that come which obstruct the way and flows with vigor in plains, the song too has these attributes. The whole pallavi is constructed that way. The high energy start, then the twist in the pallavi line which is similar to the streams jumping over rocks and a beautiful descent.

It is the first interlude chorus for which I will probably write half my yearly salary!!! Looks like he does some counterpoint with the voices. Again the same question: _why_ does he have to do it. If he had just let only the melody line proceed as it is, it would have given the folk flavor but he had to go and make some voice sing in the background enhancing the beauty. I do not know the technicalities but I guess that part would grammatically qualify as counterpoint. The jauntiness of the tune continues in the charanam with sudden twists and turns. Tabla proving wonderful support here.

Mano does a decent job in the song. The descending part towards the end of the pallavi and charanam are not easy but he gets them right. I had wrongly mentioned that 'muthu mani muthu mani' was from 'Athiradi Padai' in another place. DR pointed it out and I corrected it. 'muthu mani muthu mani' was from this movie. I am not sure if this was a major hit those days. As a comparison, in the same year we had 'Margazhi Poove' from "May Madham", which was a song on nature and was a major hit.

Thanks for picking a rare song Suresh. I have heard "Muthu mani" several times but this was a recent discovery for me. A beautiful Shankarabharanam with Raja's usual sweet surprises in the interludes [esp the second one] and the charanam tune. Though Mano did not spoil the song, he added no value to it as well. Had it been SPB, the beauty would have got highlighted.

Is this the last usage of Santoor by Raja? How sad!!!!

[thumburu]

Song No: 17
Song: Anjukejam Kanjipattu
Film: Raasamagan
Singers: SPB & Janaki
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR3029'&lang=en

Not sure how popular this song was. Am currently doing a small check before I decide if the song was popular. Checked on youtube and couldn't find the song when I searched for the film. I could only get 'kaathirundhen' and 'vaigasi vellikizhamai' from this film. So I think this song was not a great hit. I may be wrong though.

I selected this song to highlight the fact that in this year Raja did a decent number of songs which had a sort of 'looped' beat as the background. These were not store bought, as was the fashion those days but constructed by Raja and played on the drum machine. We earlier saw 'munnam seidha' song which had a similar incessant beat in the background. The other song from this movie, 'kathirundhen thaniye' also has a 'looped' beat. ('kathirundhen thaniye' is an outstanding song by all counts.) Similarly we have songs like 'muthu mani muthu mani' and 'malai kovil vasalil' in this year as well as a couple of more songs which I will talk about. What is not clear is if Raja used such 'looped' rhythm as a reaction to Rahman and later Deva's loops or it was a natural progression for Raja. I think there have been songs of Raja earlier as well where such continuous rhythm happened in the background.

The song starts with the beat. The tune is energetic at the same time peaceful. SPB ensures that he meets the paradoxical requirement of being high on energy and being soft at the same time. The first interlude has good interplay between flute and violin. The charanams are typical Raja with something like Brindavana Saranga revealing itself briefly. The second interlude also has good flute and violin sections. Overall a song which again makes you feel that this could have been more popular.

"Anju gejam" had everything going for it - star singers, peppy tune and beats. Wonder why it got just a lukewarm reception.

[San_K]

because film was utter flop

[app_engine]

"Anju gejam" had everything going for it - star singers, peppy tune and beats. Wonder why it got just a lukewarm reception.

I listened briefly to portion of this song for the first time, when posting about all SPB songs in the IR-SPB thread...just to make sure if I heard it before or not. Since it was "unfamiliar", skipped it and didn't care.

I didn't get a chance to listen when Sureshji posted about the song also.

Then I was driving back home this Monday morning - after almost 10 hours' drive, tired, after dropping friends in their home, yearning to hit the bed at our home. Me alone in the van, at about 2:30 AM.

And this song got played from the HDD. (Never knew it was there, part of a MP3 dump from tamilwire).

WOW! It really hit me (simply too sexy) :oops:

[ravinat]

Thanks for picking a rare song Suresh. I have heard "Muthu mani" several times but this was a recent discovery for me. A beautiful Shankarabharanam with Raja's usual sweet surprises in the interludes [esp the second one] and the charanam tune. Though Mano did not spoil the song, he added no value to it as well. Had it been SPB, the beauty would have got highlighted.

Is this the last usage of Santoor by Raja? How sad!!!!

Naan Kadavul (2009) song - Kannil Paarvai starts off with Santoor.

[KV]

Can someone (suresh/ravinat/thumburu/vel/RR/skr/aakarsh/usha'ka) please write a little about the scale changes in TherkE veesum's charanams? Can't get this outta my head.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Oh even Mano songs are discussed, Kali yugam Pa :banghead:

[app_engine]

Oh even Mano songs are discussed, Kali yugam Pa :banghead:

Param,
Please look at the context : "unheard / unappreciated / underappreciated" songs :-)

The years of IR losing the top spot, reasons as to why he became lukewarm (after being super hot for >15 years).

So, is it not quite appropriate to pick Mano / Arunmozhi songs?

You should be jumping with joy instead :-)

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Ashha pAtti(ok Asha ammA - Usha Sankar is prowling these spaces now carefulLA irukkaNum) claims she is in Guiness for a measly 15K songs. appO SPB, SJ, and hmmm...er...Mano ivanga ellAm 30K= irundhum En guinessla illai?

IIRC, Asha pAtti never claimed this, this incident involved Bill Clinton / Hilary Clinton (B4 Monica affair :lol2: ) Lata / SPB were invited to a dinner at White house, in which Clinton congratulated Lata saying, she sang the most no of songs, but Lata interrupted and said, It was SPB who holds the Guinness record for singing the most no of songs (40k +)

[PARAMASHIVAN]

You should be jumping with joy instead :-)

App anna

I don't take these things, seriously :lol: Read my signature :)

[PARAMASHIVAN]

-dig-

From wiki :



end-dig

From Wiki

Sripathi Panditaradhyula Balasubrahmanyam ( pronunciation (help·info); born 4 June 1946) is an Indian playback singer, actor, music director, voice actor and film producer. He is sometimes referred to as S. P. B. or Balu. He won the National Film Award for Best Male Playback Singer six times. He won the Nandi Awards 25 times from Government of Andhra Pradesh.

He has sung over 40,000 songs in various Indian languages. He is the only playback singer in India to have won National Film Awards across four languages. He has also won a Filmfare Award, three Filmfare Awards South and numerous state awards from Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. He is a recipient of civilian awards such as Padmashri (2001) and Padma Bhushan (2011) from the government of India.[1]

[Sureshs65]

Param,

As I had requested kindly let us debate the number of songs issues in a separate thread. And as app mentioned, we are discussing the songs of Raja in the 90s. I think you mistook it to be the SPB thread. Will be good if you check the thread title before you bang your head. Otherwise you may get hurt unnecessarily :)

[Sureshs65]

thumburu,

Very true about 'anju kejam'. It has everything going for it but probably because, as San_K said, the movie didn't do well, the song didn't succeed. A pity.

app,

Yes, sometimes certain Raja songs hit us like this. The sudden opening in the cloud of our ignorance and we are stunned. "Why didn't I get this earlier" feel.

[Sureshs65]

Song No : 25
Song: Ponkatrile
Film: Paatu Paadava
Singers: Lekha, Subha, Sindhu
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2583'&lang=en

This song was requested by Shank. I must blame him for making me feel ashamed that I haven't heard this song earlier. I am sure this movie was released during my stay in Chennai. I didn't buy the tape/CD then. But what an excellent album this is. Even the most ardent Raja '80s only' fans love 'Nil Nil Nil' and 'Vazhi Vidu Vazhi Vidu'. Both these songs, though didn't get played as much as they should have been due to the debacle of the film, in due course of time became cult classics. I am sure there are very few old Raja fans who don't know about these two songs.

The song for today is a different matter. I haven't heard it till now. Whenever I come to hear 'Paatu Paadava' I end up with only the two songs I mentioned above. Shank's recommendation made me listen to this. Shank is himself a composer, so his recos being great is no surprise. I can clearly see why he has recommended this song. I would also request him to write his thoughts about this song.

This is one more Raja song which has no major percussion instruments backing it. The rhythm is provided by the strings and what sounds like the tap on the metal part of the drums. (Or is it some other instrument? Ravi Natarajan, help please). A lovely prelude with bass guitar and keyboard precedes a melodious pallavi. As usual the pallavi is not straight and simple. And that lovely piece of flute at the very end of the pallavi. Lovely WCM interlude with the strings, keyboard and guitar. The initial part of the charanam reminds me of an old song but soon changes its shape. The usual ups and downs follow with the strings very subtly providing the counter melody. The second interlude is again a mini symphony with the flute and the strings playing their stellar roles. The voices are pleasant and do their job well.

Another fantastic song with lot of excellent WCM work went unnoticed. This again is terrific experimentation. Either people had taken this type of experimentation from Raja for granted or were looking for simpler structures, I do not know, but this song did not get the attention that it needed. (The more famous female solos in this year were 'kannalane' and 'nila kaigiradhu'.) We must be glad that we have devoted Raja fans here who point out to songs like these so that we can all enjoy it atleast now. As they say, "Better late than never"

[ravinat]

Suresh

The most popular song in this album was 'Chinna Kanmanikulle' by SPB. The song is sang with fantastic emotion (typical of SPB). If my memory serves me right, SPB acted for this song too, singing in front of GA/MSV. I learned about other songs in the movie later on. Poonkatrile has been one of my favorites and it is part of my "Raja - peace" songlist. It is a modern re-incarnation of Putham Puthu Kaalai of early 80s or Kaalai Thendral of mid 80s.

The song's rhythm is managed fully with hi-hats and cymbals. The rest of the drum kit is not used. It is entirely possible to do this with a rhythm pad. Shank can confirm. The striking part of this track is the first interlude and part of the second interlude. Raja would have used pizzicato strings (plucked strings) in the 80s songs like Maalaiyil Yaaro. The first interlude tries to bring out the same effect with the synthesizer.

The soul of this melodious, refreshing song is the way the instrumentation is arranged. If you just look at the list - rhythm pad, synthesizer and occasional flute with guitar, you are bound to expect a loud song that will strain your ears. The list of instruments is exactly what I mentioned, the soul is in the composer's work. This is one of the most peaceful songs of the 90s. In my view, Raja is in his true elements.

'Thendrale Thendrale' from Kadhal Desam is a very soothing number (more of a lullaby) from ARR in 1996. If you see the instrument choice, ARR will avoid use of percussion and use the bass guitar and the piano. That's well understood formula. Not with Raja. He will compose a song like 'Therke Veesum' with just guitar strumming managing the rhythm and he will choose to use hi-hats and cymbals for 'Poongatrile'. In most of his outstanding songs, this is a surprise I have come to look forward to. Being surprised is standard:smile2:

'Nil Nil Nil' is another song that requires more discussion.

[Sureshs65]

Ravi,

Thanks for the lovely post explaining the song in detail. (And yes, I missed listing 'Chinna Kanmanikulle', which is one of my favorites and is a song which is very peaceful again.) As you very correctly point out, Raja does not use the standard instrumentation when you would expect them. For example, if you see any of the lullaby, you will find the orchestration very soft. But not with Raja. He will use the strong chaapu of the mridagam in 'vatapatra saayiki' and 'alli illam poovo'. Very harsh and metallic and yet these are two of the best lullabies ever composed !!!

[Shank]

Suresh65, I agree with everything you and Ravi have said about this song. I was literally stunned when this song came out in 1995. The chord progressions are amazing. This is a fav song of mine when it released and even now. Even for a layman, it is clear that the song is not following a conventional structure though there are shades of Kalyani in the charanams. The slight sustains in even the anupallavi makes it not so easy to hum along, in a traditional sense. I think the synth usage actually gives the ethereal feel for this song...it's beautiful.

I am sure we will keep discovering stuff from Raja's treasure trove for many years to come...as Kamal said, he is not just a isai gnani....he is a isai vignani!!

[raajarasigan]

Song No : 25
Song: Ponkatrile
Film: Paatu Paadava
Singers: Lekha, Subha, Sindhu
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2583'&lang=enindha pAttai pattRi yArAchum ezhuthuvEengannu remba nALa wait pannikitturndhEn... :clap:

Lovely Lovely song!! kuRippa charanam'la "peNmai nalla... " :D

thanks shank for suggesting this!!

[Gregorysab]

Suresh,

We are currently taken over by the Kaatre Konjum storm! And in 2 days, the whole album of NEPV will take over most of us here! What happened to Raaja's music in 90s (good stuff going unnoticed) should not happen to your effort-filled informative posts here! I suggest you take a break :-) so that we all can enjoy NEPV for the moment and then, once it sinks in... you can re-start this series! :-) I know you will say that raaja didnt take a break, even if his stuff went unnoticed :-) But then, we people cannot bear the onslaught too many exciting things! So i request you to give us a 1 week break :-D

Ofcourse you are archiving the posts but then, we will have to go through the archives after the NEPV fever is down :-)

[Gregorysab]

Song No : 25
Song: Ponkatrile
Film: Paatu Paadava
Singers: Lekha, Subha, Sindhu
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2583'&lang=en



How come I never listened to this song before :banghead:

what a stunning composition! This composition too is very complex. Not at all straight. Look at those interludes! And there is a small transition between end of pallavi and 1st interlude... a techno-grunge kind of twist there, before WCM takes over! and who on earth takes over charanam in that scale given the way the song was progressing! (Suresh - the charanam begins almost like the charanam of Maate Mantramu/kaadhal oviyum - i guess thats the de ja vu you felt).

I was listening to Kaatre Konjum till now but now this song is likely to push that out of my system! Only Raaja can format our systems clean and replace with raaja's music!

[KV]

+1. Too much to consume but too little time! Sureshji, the songs that are coming out of this thread are awesome. They very definitely need more attention and adulation. But the viv richards pace of this thread... gosh! naagellaam paavam'nga!

kaatrai konjam, to me, has more of the 90s-00s influence (Suresh's pet area of interest!) in the tune than 80s. The slides and glides in the tune are what can be seen more predominantly in his songs from this period. Unnai thedi (that aakarsh had posted) and minmini paarvaigal (julie ganapathy) are ones that immediately pop-up in my mind. It's the orchestration that lifts the song to greater heights. Just try imagining this sort of live/acoustic orchestration (in place of the same ideas on synth) through the 90s and 00s - how wholesome would've that been! Alas!

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

aakarsh, the whole album is a gem. My picks which i would listen any day! -> http://thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs=%27SNGIRR2582%27,%27SNGIRR2583%2 7,%27SNGIRR2584%27&lang=en

[Gregorysab]

kaatrai konjam, to me, has more of the 90s-00s influence (Suresh's pet area of interest!) in the tune than 80s. The slides and glides in the tune are what can be seen more predominantly in his songs from this period. Unnai thedi (that aakarsh had posted) and minmini paarvaigal (julie ganapathy) are ones that immediately pop-up in my mind.

The charanams (that saxophone and all) give you that Balu Mahendra-Yesudas-raaja-80s combo feel.
The phrases in pallavi give you that Unnai Thedi feel
The frenzied orchestration (and instruments playing a motif repeatedly) and the scale also reminds you of that Unnikrishnan song from ajantha - yaarku yaar yendra (or something - i dont get the lyrics)

[Gregorysab]

This song no. 25 Poongatrile from Paattu Paadava - Its a classic! what a delight! He might have covered so many scales in this one song! This is not just the best song of this album, but among the best in 90s and all-time!! Phenomenal!!!!

[skr]

Aakarsh ,
You are making me curious to see what is so special in the song ..
Cant wait to head home and check this one :)

The only song which i know in Paattu Paadava is the scintillating Nil Nil Nil where again you have some mesmerising scale changes.

[Gregorysab]

Aakarsh ,
You are making me curious to see what is so special in the song ..
Cant wait to head home and check this one :)

The only song which i know in Paattu Paadava is the scintillating Nil Nil Nil where again you have some mesmerising scale changes.

Nil Nil Nil has been my favourite but now, its a dwarf compared to Poonkaatrile! Nil Nil Nil does what we know Ilaiyaraaja is capable of doing. Poonkatrile does what we cant imagine :-) This song is World Music!

[udebaqifoz]

Song No : 25
Song: Ponkatrile
Film: Paatu Paadava
Singers: Lekha, Subha, Sindhu
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2583'&lang=en


Fantastic! This is something else. I will call this Raaja genre. Why call it it now with NEPV? Right back then, how else could one classify this vintage? My favorites in the album are the song you had mentioned and Iniya Ganam (an absolute stunner if you ask me) but I have never heard of this song before! Now only eyes are tying:fatigue:

Digressing, That song in NEPV doing the rounds is an absolute stunner too. A friend, an ardent ARR fan, had this to say: "The maestro's dropping some vintage shit here..." The song is already :notworthy: levels.

[udebaqifoz]

Song No : 25
Song: Ponkatrile
Film: Paatu Paadava
Singers: Lekha, Subha, Sindhu
Lyrics: Vaali
Link: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp?sngs='SNGIRR2583'&lang=en

I am sure this movie was released during my stay in Chennai. I didn't buy the tape/CD then. But what an excellent album this is. Even the most ardent Raja '80s only' fans love 'Nil Nil Nil' and 'Vazhi Vidu Vazhi Vidu'. Both these songs, though didn't get played as much as they should have been due to the debacle of the film, in due course of time became cult classics.

Lead to believe that Poongatrile was the title song. One possible reason why it did not have much air time. Film was directed by BR Panthulu's daughter, Vijayalakshmi, who was also a camerawoman. Her brother (don't remember the name) was the director of Eera Vizhi Kaviyangal (Raaja's greatest album imho). He seems to have reserved his best for the family :)

[app_engine]

'poongARRilE' - sweet song!

Honestly, had I heard this number when arrived, could have possibly thought as "some new ARR song" :oops: (konjam 'puththam puthu bhoomi' feel)