Kamalhassan's Ideology in his films

digression:

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?266163

no wonder Kamal does NOT venture into antagonising one particularl community in his films - the reason: FEAR !!

end digression

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Originally Posted by irir123

digression:

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?266163

no wonder Kamal does NOT venture into antagonising one particularl community in his films - the reason: FEAR !!

end digression

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so doesnt that set the wrong example that you wont be antagonised if you resort to violence? isnt this the very thing to be antagonised by anyone who believes in democracy? :roll:

irir123,
அதைத்தான் அவர் ஓப்பனாவே "எங்க வீட்டுப்பொண்ணு தானே கஷ்டப்படும்"னு சொல்லீட்டாரே? (மணிரத்னம்-பம்பாய்-வன்முறை-மணிக்கு சொல்லப்பட்ட புத்திமதி இத்யாதி)

"chi dam bram!" என சிறு வட்டத்துக்குள்ளேயே வெளிப்படும் அவரது வீரம் நகைப்புக்குறியது.

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

"chi dam bram!" என சிறு வட்டத்துக்குள்ளேயே வெளிப்படும் அவரது வீரம் நகைப்புக்குறியது.

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:lol: :clap:

in the overall analysis, his courageous themes are courageous only coz he knows quite well that the communities he is trying to 'expose' wud never do to him, what a certain other community is likely to do if he were to rub them on the wrong side !

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Originally Posted by kalyan

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Originally Posted by irir123

digression:

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?266163

no wonder Kamal does NOT venture into antagonising one particularl community in his films - the reason: FEAR !!

end digression

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so doesnt that set the wrong example that you wont be antagonised if you resort to violence? isnt this the very thing to be antagonised by anyone who believes in democracy? :roll:

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wrong example, right example dichotomy does not matter here! as far as one can antagonise some communities since a convenient combination of a safety net as well as 'artistic' accolades and 'arivu jeevi' pattams are assured for doing so (!), who cares ?!

all these community bias complaints are rubbish IMHO.. didnt we see a movie called heyram..

say, even in Anbe Sivam.. there are many "good" hindu characters.. but nasser being a hindu irks many for no good reason..

btw.. we are a big hindu majority country... so the bias is in the eyes of the viewer...

irir,

Unnai pol oruvan is termed as anti - muslim...some people think its anti hindu

the movie has a Indian muslim, who speaks and acts against the nation accusing that the nation is not taking care of the minorities.

what you expect from him?

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Originally Posted by Anban

say, even in Anbe Sivam.. there are many "good" hindu characters.. but nasser being a hindu irks many for no good reason..

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wrt anbe sivam,

there may be any hindu characters, but only nasser is shown to chant hindu hymns while shown to perform villainous acts.

and there is one sister Vanessa and her group who are shown as the epitome of piety and caring, and they are also shown to pray for the protagonist, invoking the god they believe in.

now you are free to decide which religion is portrayed in bad light. :)

y havent we seen in any KH movie in the last two decades where a hindu priest is shown to be pious, caring and compassionate to his fellow human beings? leave along brahmin priests, even the village priest in Virumaandi is shown as committing perjury in the court of law :huh:

what abt that lady in the hill ??

Nasser is not a brahmin in this movie.. if he is a gounder, does it mean that Kamal exposed or vilified gounders??

in dasa, the name of the villain is Christian FLetcher and he does pray to god in the movie.. even shows his middle finger in his marriage scene.. so whats thaT??

in Mahanadi, the most notorious character is Thulukkaanam ..

and there are many more examples..

ofcourse brahmins have been "exposed" in some movies.. may be bcos he is also from one such family..

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Originally Posted by Anban

what abt that lady in the hill ??

Nasser is not a brahmin in this movie.. if he is a gounder, does it mean that Kamal exposed or vilified gounders??

in dasa, the name of the villain is Christian FLetcher and he does pray to god in the movie.. even shows his middle finger in his marriage scene.. so whats thaT??

in Mahanadi, the most notorious character is Thulukkaanam ..

and there are many more examples..

ofcourse brahmins have been "exposed" in some movies.. may be bcos he is also from one such family..

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the lady on the hill is not shown to invoke some god and pray for the protagonist. but nasser is shown to invoke a hindu God and prays against the protagonist. and vanessa prays for the protagonist to the god she believes in.

gounders too are hindus right? nasser was shown as a particularly pious person.

wrt, Christin Fletcher, there is another character in the movie (vincent poovaragan) who is shown as the epitome of goodness.

Thulukkanam is a Hindu name, FYI :)

and what are the other examples? :)

if he can 'expose' brahmins (to use your own words), what stops him from exposing more sinister individuals from other communities? especially when he doesnt even consider himself as a brahmin or a hindu?

dig

///being a brahmin is not by birth, but by virtues. KH was never one, IMHO///

end dig.

kalyan,

the diehard KH fan should have been dead long before UPO ... too late :P

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Originally Posted by Anban

kalyan,

the diehard KH fan should have been dead long before UPO ... too late :P

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better late than never :wink: :lol:

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Originally Posted by Anban

all these community bias complaints are rubbish IMHO.. didnt we see a movie called heyram..

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Enough said

Courage or not, the question to be asked is, why don't some of us ask questions about our kamminaattis (being theist or atheist is immaterial). Fear > Hypocrisy/connivance

exactly anban

The initial riot scenes in hey raam is enough !

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Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)

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Originally Posted by Anban

all these community bias complaints are rubbish IMHO.. didnt we see a movie called heyram..

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Enough said

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hey ram was a balanced film. but that hardly justifies the potshots in his other movies.

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Originally Posted by kalyan

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Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)

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Originally Posted by Anban

all these community bias complaints are rubbish IMHO.. didnt we see a movie called heyram..

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Enough said

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hey ram was a balanced film. but that hardly justifies the potshots in his other movies.

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:exactly: kamal clearly has anti-brahmin, anti-hindu agenda in most of his movies but its ok as long as it gels with the narration but is very poor narration when it sticks out for the sake of it - ex: nasser in anbe sivam(in hospital scene): naa aandavana vendikkuren, nee sethhu po (not verbatim) :lol:

where is mrs.mani-a ketta vaarthaila thittina P_R :P

Richard Dawkins targets the catholics too.

Historically, every atheist writer/filmmaker primarily critique their own background and where they come from..

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Richard Dawkins targets the catholics too.

Historically, every atheist writer/filmmaker primarily critique their own background and where they come from..

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and historically they get shunned by their communities, nothing wrong in the reaction anyway :wink:

IMHO, an atheist who keeps speaking about atheism through whatever the media resources available to him is only as bad as a tele evangelist, the only thing is that he is advertising / promoting a different brand of product. :)

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Originally Posted by kalyan

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Richard Dawkins targets the catholics too.

Historically, every atheist writer/filmmaker primarily critique their own background and where they come from..

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and historically they get shunned by their communities, nothing wrong in the reaction anyway :wink:

IMHO, an atheist who keeps speaking about atheism through whatever the media resources available to him is only as bad as a tele evangelist, the only thing is that he is advertising for a different product. :)

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There's some truth in this (although I have expressed reservations on the specificities in regards to Dawkins' work - it's his line of study for decades now), except I don't see how it applies to filmmakers who cater to a largely theistic society. I know 'advertising for a different product' here especially throws a political connotation in regards to TN politics. Let's leave it at that..

While I admire Kamal for his passion towards cinema and the way he showcased his coming-to-his-own-truths through his films, I would immensely enjoy if someone with decent knowledge of religion snub and question his attitude towards them :D, just like he does to his characters in the movies. As far as I can infer, neither he nor the 'religious' characters that he snubs in his movies have any religious knowledge except the regular religious beliefs (or non-beliefs) of normal people.

A set of interviews with someone on the lines of Cho (just an example) would be nice. The other side has perpetually been shown weak (or weakened by his writing.)

Anyway, I dream on.

Are we forgetting Hey! Ram, which to my mind isn't about 'normal people', 'regular belief' or 'weak' in any sense of the word..

Leaving out , kamals criticism on hinduism, I dont like his intellectual dialogues in his movies.

This was not the case in his late 80's and 90's movies...infact till avvai shanmugi..

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Are we forgetting Hey! Ram, which to my mind isn't about 'normal people', 'regular belief' or 'weak' in any sense of the word..

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:exactly: ....it spks for itself

அப்பாடா, after a long time, இப்போ தான் thread களை கட்டி இருக்கு :)

Fee_aar, compli, plum, equa, TM, sriman, Roshan, Thamiz.... everybody is invited to join the party :yes:

Bala, அடுத்த partக்கு title யோசிக்க ஆரம்பிங்க :)

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Originally Posted by Vivasaayi

Leaving out , kamals criticism on hinduism, I dont like his intellectual dialogues in his movies.

This was not the case in his late 80's and 90's movies...infact till avvai shanmugi..

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"god is thr or not"..this vaadham was ameturish in dasa...didnt gel...but his take on hindu people n some of the films has to b accepted...namme veetliye azhukku irukkumbodhu edhukku matha veete pathi pesanum...

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Are we forgetting Hey! Ram, which to my mind isn't about 'normal people', 'regular belief' or 'weak' in any sense of the word..

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It never occurred to me that Hey Ram was really asking deep religious (not humanitarian) questions. We do have Amjad and Gandhi shown as men of fortitude, although I didn't see it as being derived from one's own religion, only inspite of it. Also, there is the scene with the astrologer played by VS Raghavan, again mocked by Saketh's response, which I think were quite valid, but didn't get a equally valid response from the other side (which I think exists).

I doubt if there has ever been an religious person in any movie, who bases his intelligence, inner strength, and common sense on religion itself. Gandhi, I believe, was one such man, although I don't know if he has ever been portrayed so.

மத்தளம்னா ரெண்டு பக்கத்துலேர்ந்தும் இடி விழுகத்தான் செய்யின்.

Let me attempt something...

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Originally Posted by kalyan

Thulukkanam is a Hindu name, FYI :)

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சென்னைப்பகுதியிலுள்ள தாழ்த்தப்பட்ட மக்களே பொதுவாக வைக்கும் துலுக்காணம் எனும் பெயர் கொண்ட வார்டனிடம் வைதீக பார்ப்பனன் பஞ்சாபகேசனும், ஆதிக்கசாதியைச் சேர்ந்த கிருஷ்ணசாமியும் வதை படுவதாகக் காட்டும் குயுக்தி அவதானிக்கத்தக்கது.

துலுக்காணம் அறுவெறுக்கத்தப்படி கடிதத்தில் சிறுநீர் கழிப்பதாகக்காட்டுவது திண்ணியத்தை தந்திரமாகத் திருப்பிப் போடுவதைத் தவிற வேறென்ன?

estra estra estra

ஒரு கொடும்பாவி பார்சல்..

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Originally Posted by raghavendran

namme veetliye azhukku irukkumbodhu edhukku matha veete pathi pesanum...

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very true, the world will be a much better place if every community practices this, rather than pointing fingers at others :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by P_R

துலுக்காணம் அறுவெறுக்கத்தப்படி கடிதத்தில் சிறுநீர் கழிப்பதாகக்காட்டுவது திண்ணியத்தை தந்திரமாகத் திருப்பிப் போடுவதைத் தவிற வேறென்ன?

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but the chronology of the events prove otherwise.

this is nothing but a hidden agenda of targetting KH for all and sundry, since the ThiNNiyam incident didnt happen till the late 90s whereas the movie got reeased in Jan 1994.

now dont bring something ridiculous like the ThiNNiyam incident was orchestrated by the upper caste people as a retaliation to the movie 'Mahanadhi' :)

:lol:

kalyan, that was a mock para for what passes of a sociological critique nowadays. Kamal gets it from both sides.

"ஒரு கொடும்பாவி பார்சல்.."
:rotfl2:

My 2 cents:Will not accuse KH of an hidden agenda but it is also true that his critiques are more against hindu beliefs/texts and AFAIR he does not take on other religions with the same gusto.

k-g has a point that rebellion is most likely to take place against things you are familiar with/forced to practise/more frequently debated but at the same time as an intelligent person( in the real sense),a time has to come when you have to take an overall view of things instead of getting restricted.

A bias is more likely to seep in and KH these days, on religion,speaks more like an hypocritical politician than a thinker.

Girish Karnad,U R Ananthmurthy and the likes are also same case.

As somebody pointed out KH needs to have a debate with somebody like Cho or anybody with a good knowledge who can answer questions instead of going on and on with his prejudices.

BTW,am shocked that incl myself there are quite a few who can be so harsh on his beliefs but at the same time are 'theevira'fans.

Idhu engalukku credit-a ille KH-ukka :roll:

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Originally Posted by Cinefan

BTW,am shocked that incl myself there are quite a few who can be so harsh on his beliefs but at the same time are 'theevira'fans.

Idhu engalukku credit-a ille KH-ukka :roll:

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:lol: Good kostin!

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Originally Posted by P_R

மத்தளம்னா ரெண்டு பக்கத்துலேர்ந்தும் இடி விழுகத்தான் செய்யின்.

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Ha ha, well said!

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Originally Posted by P_R

:lol:

kalyan, that was a mock para for what passes of a sociological critique nowadays. Kamal gets it from both sides.

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P_R,

:oops: got confused :ashamed:

Seriously though, I think Kamal's case, like most people's, is much more complicated than a simple label that says Hindu or anti-Hindu.

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Originally Posted by equanimus

Seriously though, I think Kamal's case, like most people's, is much more complicated than a simple label that says Hindu or anti-Hindu.

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hmm... interesting, can you pls elaborate on this? :) :wink:

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Originally Posted by anbu_kathir

As far as I can infer, neither he nor the 'religious' characters that he snubs in his movies have any religious knowledge except the regular religious beliefs (or non-beliefs) of normal people.

A set of interviews with someone on the lines of Cho (just an example) would be nice. The other side has perpetually been shown weak (or weakened by his writing.)

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On the contrary, I seriously doubt that Cho is a match for Kamal in this regard. I've made this point before too, I think Kamal's films (which is precisely the prism through which we're reading him) are spiritual in the true sense of the word. At the end of the day, what matters is one's engagement with the idea of a god, not the conclusion one reaches.