what do you hate OR like in MD ?

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Originally Posted by rajasaranam

Jacky and alias,

Sure i do accept that Sales figures have always favoured ARR after his entry. But we dont have any Databank for the 80's or late 70's. which were IR's peak period. If at all they had some Then this case of ARR selling more than Britney, madonna etc., will become obsolete....
IR's music is very much movie oriented and he does not believe in giving a complete album to make it a hit. He gives songs for situations which are better watched along the movie. Even the movie 'pagalil oru iravu' had some songs apart from the super hit 'Ilamai enum poongatru' which are unknown for many of us. Sigappu rojakkal had only 2 songs, tik tik had only 3 songs, sathya had 3 songs, guna had 4 songs, which means IR believed that the songs are for movies and there was not a necessity to have 5 songs perse and making it sound great to make a hit album.
While ARR had this standard of 5 songs atleast for all his movies and concentrated more to make all 5 songs a hit.
So the case of complete album doest work out for 2 diff MD's who have different notions on making music.
Pithamagan had Piraye and Adadaaa [ apart from the medley and elangathu] which were songs that enhahced the scene in the movie while they may not sound great listening to alone for many of the people. hence its sales would be definitely low comparitive to KKS/ E20U18.
I accept that There has not been a single Complete album from IR in the recent past according to your perspective or ARR's standard. But thats Ok for us as we view IR as a Film music composer not a POP album composer :) And its a world wide view too that they dont expect a Zimmerman or goldsmith to sell more than MJ, Madonna or britney :?

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Now you have come to the point. If the sales figure does not show up for IR, then it is failure of IR that his music is not reaching any more to the public. And his current music is a failure. I remember those time when IR music was going to be released, I use to stand there for him to open the shop and most of the time, they would be ppl. already standing waiting for teh shop to open and buy the new released cassette lik Thalapathy, Uzapalli, Agni Natchitram etc and the reason was his popular music which is no more now. So the point is here, the time for IR is gone , so all u fans of IR should accept. I know there are fans like njv, who has moved on with times but it is fans like rajasarnam who are like Gennathu Thavalai and for them the time has frozen.

And Maddy, what u r saying about the small base of brahmins might be true since most people are still influenced by IR soil rooted songs and carnatic flavour but that was only for short period. Now all people not only in TN but entire India have accepted that ARR music cannot be ignored for now and he is legend who has taken Indian music globally for the first time in the history of IFM.

ellaa brahmin-um brahmin-illai ARR-ai
vaazhthum brahmin-ae brahmin

IR-ai pORRum brahmin-um brahmin-aa
IR-ai AeRRum brahmin brah-mean-ae

What next? ADMK has many thevars; JJ is IR hater so all thevars are mean because they would also hate IR. Extrapolate this further to vanniyars, parayars, nadars, chettiyaars, piLLais and all other castes. There will be stunning revealation by one or two from these castes declaring why they are why they are not proud to be that caste people.

We can easily codify and classify each castes based on the aspect whether a few of that caste people like/hate this or that MD. What a splendid idea. Votebankers can take cue from this idea.

MSV is a genius MD because he is unparalleled when it comes to tunes. IR is a genius MD because he is incomparable when it comes to usage of umpteen different ways of usage of WCM idioms and ICM idioms to the lighter Film music.

I need to know what ARR is, to term him genius. Yes, he has revolutionized sound aspects of TFM. But that is secondary aspect when it comes to music. This doesn't mean that ARR is merely a sound engineer (earler I too believed so, more due to my prejudice). Definitely ARR is a great MD. He gave many very nice tunes, and many well orchestrated music. He could have remained a lalla, laala laa MD and still could have become popular with the help of his revolt but he chose not to be so and gave very good quality music (not sound, not hits aspect). He is above the league of SARs, Devas; Imans, HJs, VSs; YSRs. But his path breaking contribution to TFM is not in terms of musical aspects of songs but more in terms of packaging aspects of it.

I also saw some inapproprate comments on subbudu. If you go and tell him that sangamam songs are great carnatic tunes, definitely he will tear them apart. Then you record & publish only his replies and show that as though subbudu has prejudice and make your readers to feel so. I guess this idiocy started when subbudu said "kEdhaaraththukku sEdhaaram" about ennavaLE song which was raved as a great tune in kedhaaram. FYI, subbudu said the same about pOn maalai pozhudhu (kEdhaaraththukku sEdhaaram) what that song became popular. IR had explained the reasons why he (subbudu) should not view it from one angle, about that song. Then rest is history. If my memory serves correctly, sometime back in ROS thread of TFMPage I read that "Sendhoora poovE" cannot be classified under one raaga. A fellow knowledgeable DFer told (I guess it was MS) that he found almost all the 12 notes in that song. But sendhoora poovE is one of the most liked song of subbudu. Not because subbudu liked IR, not even that song is a pure raaga song. Subbudu was quoted saying something like "nowadays i feel shanmugapriya in some kutcheries started wearing pyjaama khurtha. I would rather go and listen to vEl muruganukku motta onnu pOda pOrEn dOi, cinema song for that raaga than sitting in such kutcheries (pardon me if the raaga name is incorrect)". This does not mean that subbudu disliked Hindustani, but it means that when someone claims that his is pure carnatic in shanmugapriya raaga subbudu expects that the grammar(syntax & semantics) is not violated in it even when you are showing your imagination.

One thing is sure, one might like ARR. One might be a fanatic of his music also. It is not wrong. There are many such in IR camp. There were many such in MSV camp. But with limited knowledge one should not pass judgement.

Given this, I too believe and it is a fact that after ARR's advent IR's chances went down. IR is no way as popular as he used to be. Nor his albums are hit as they used to be. ARR gave new dimension to film songs listening. He was seen as the icon of the then building up generation when he arrived.

If one see TFM history - MSV did not single handedly overthrown any previously ruling MDs (KVM was also equally popular during MSV's tenure). But MSV is a genius. IR toppled MSV but still he is also a genius. ARR toppled IR, ARR is a great MD but his revolution is not, as I said earlier, in the musical aspect (song making aspect). Who knows someday there might be someone who will topple ARR who may be of the grade of YSR or even SAR.

ARR brought technology into TFM (and IFM in general) by using synthesizers and loops in a unique way as well as better recording quality. But he is not just an electronic MD. Even Deva and the like have all those tools, but ARR knows best how to use them.

He also does interesting things with orchestration as well. Listen to Kulirithu Kulirithu from Taj Mahal. The way the pizzicato strings and flute, for example, are orchestrated is absolutely marvelous. ARR creates soundscapes in his works, by using a variety of instruments and the technology at hand too.

Also, he uses some instruments in a novel fashion. In Urvasi Urvasi from Kaadhalan, the sarangi solo is quite original. Who would have thought to use a sarangi in a pop song like this? But it works.

ARR brought more Hindustani and even Middle Eastern sounds into TFM as well.

good post Cacaphonix........but u say ARR hasn't created a revolution, well ARR's entry was the most blistering of entries not only in TFM but tamil film industry as a whole.......he converted the systems to digital which was the first step for globalisation.....watever IR fans mite argue but his 80's and 70's songs r not at all presentable globally simply bcos of sound quality.....(there mite be some musical geniuses like a frenchman who is a gr8 fan of IR, who can see music without the sound quality........)

and reg subbudu, he is clearly a prejudiced man attacking ARR for reason best known to him only........if ARR gives tunes with raaga-shudham then only he will listen.....how will ppl. like me wud listen to pakka carnatic songs???see, everything comes in a package today for better selling.....u buy a mobile phone then u have a camera,FM,calculator,bluetooth and wat not......so carnatic music has to be packaged with raaga-diversions/fusion otherwise it is not listenable for paamarans like me.......(my dad told me that subbudu has ended many ppl.'s career with his deadly reviews but he cud not move a inch in ARR's case......game,set,match - ARRahman 6-0,6-0,6-0 :D )

hey i had to take the brahmins name here as they r sadly opnion makers in TN.........Iyeru sonna sariya than irrukkum.......tell me, havent u guys heard this a lot in TN??? newys i apologise if i had hurt anyone's sentiments or provoked anyone sentiments with caste names..........

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but u say ARR hasn't created a revolution, well ARR's entry was the most blistering of entries not only in TFM but tamil film industry as a whole

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Did I say so?

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if ARR gives tunes with raaga-shudham then only he will listen.....how will ppl. like me wud listen to pakka carnatic songs???

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I don't know who is prejudiced here subbudu or you? Subbudu's job is to scrutinize whatever is termed as a carnatic output. If you give an input to him and ask his opinion he would answer based on that period. It is not his fault. It might be your fault (not ARR, but the people who termed ARR's particular song to be a carnatic song) what Subbudu can do about it. Remember the "vEli-la pOra Onaana...." anology.

game, set, match, tournament, hall-of-the-fame ellaamE ARR-aa irundhaa nalla irukkum thaan. naanum virumbuvEn. aana adhu unmayaa illayaannu thaan theriyala.

btw brahmins opinion makers? hmm...a news to me. even if they are why should that be a sad thing? Lets leave the caste stuff here and move ahead with our HCIRFs v/s HCARRFs :)

Likes:
ARR - use of technology,sound quality,fusion - he is the best in this department,use of singers,different music with each album
IR - doesn't change with the time gives hi same old pattern (the melodies of his i like)
VS - his melodies and fast paced numbers
YSR - gives out many songs and all are decent,his modern songs, able to mix rock and indian music well, his use of KK
HJ - errrr once inawhile he shines
KR - orchestration
Deva - can give some good melodies once in awhile (thaimadiye from red)

Dislikes:
ARR - long periods between films, not enuff commercial films
IR - sound quality his cds come out as tape quality until very very recently! hasnt come out of the 80s
VS - his attempts at making modern numbers
YSR - doesnt give it his all with every album u can tell which ones are rushed
HJ - ARR clone no style of his own,the way he reuses his own tunes
KR - WHERE ARE YOU!? his selection of projects
Deva - nuthin needs to be said haha

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But with limited knowledge one should not pass judgement.
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precisely...noboby wants to discuss things technically...Coming up with parameters which are subjective would not prove anything...we'll keep shouting at each other without moving anywhere...Look at the following post (NOM Dinesh)

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be prepare to face defeat! Wink . . .Doli sajakhe rakhna songs r def much much better (please know that DSKR is not a hit like KMariyathai,so def the songs fited the movie rather than appealing the audience,rite Rajasaranam?Wink& suited the situation more... take for instance the brother-sis song...
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What's technical in this discussion....Some empty threats like "be prepared to face defeat"....Dear Dinesh, I will gracefully accept my defeat if you can argue technically and prove your points...Since arr fans' main point in their argument (though definitely non-technical) is the sales figure, I am forced to compare the sales figures of the albums...Everyone (whose head is in place) knows KM is a clear winner sales wise...IMO, Quality wise too, KM wins hands down.
Now, I invite you for a technical argument.

hey shankar, wat technical aspects u need to discuss here abt DSKR and Kadhalakku Mariyadhai????neways ,DSKR sounded better to us than Kadhalakku Mariyadhai and for u it wud have been otherwise.......so with this prejudiced notion we will not be able to accept each other's points......

okk fine, if u still want a comparison on these 2 movies then pls tell me on wat criterias shuld we compare them???? see , we ARR fans r commom men whose basicallly get attracted by the sounds and packaging of the songs.......so, go ahead and list me the criterias..... :D

"I don't know who is prejudiced here subbudu or you? Subbudu's job is to scrutinize whatever is termed as a carnatic output"

i dunt understand and cannot stand carnatic music and there r millions of youngsters like me who r influenced by Bryan adams/Kurt cobain rrather than unnikrishnan/bombay jayshree.......we r the market(sadly, maybe :wink: ) so wat do u xpect ARR to do???he has to give music that we will buy and rave abt.......a reviewer cannot even take this into consideration???? and also he has always criticised ARR for migration of carnatic singers to film music.......y blame ARR only????

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Originally Posted by Shankar

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IMO, Quality wise too, KM wins hands down.

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If you compare the situational songs
Keva re keva and Aiyya vidu – either isn't clearly better than the other. IR has composed many songs like this while the Hindi version was killed by Sukwinder. Kailash Kher would've done justice to a good tune but he wasn't around that time. I feel they are on par.
Jula bhahon ko and Aanada kuilin pattu - Hindi version sounded a lot sweeter and the tune was also more catchy.

Taram pum and Oh Baby baby – IR's song was simple so it gets my vote. ARR's version was average by his standards.
Oru pattampuchi – KJY's voice never suited a guy like Vj, I don't find anything special in the tune. Bole sajni wins it hands down – just listen to the Hindustani alaap and songs variations.
Kissa hum likenge and Thalata varuvala – Tie. Both were awesome!
I don't think KM was better than DSKR, I quite liked DSKR for 3 songs I mentioned while in KM only Thalatta varuvala is in my playlist.