I think I substantiated myself ..take it or leave it.Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis
If you already have an opinion on this and not willing to change it, there is no point in posting here.
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I think I substantiated myself ..take it or leave it.Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis
If you already have an opinion on this and not willing to change it, there is no point in posting here.
So far we have...
1. Raja spoils lot of songs by singing, he is not fit to be a singer for example all the thiruvasagam songs...
2. Raja can only compose for mettukku pattu, he spoils the songs by composing the song first
3. Raja does not have poetic sense, he spoils the song by selecting the unimaginative lyrics.. thanks for exempting bharathiyar songs and thiruvasagam..
next
in between few praising lines about one or two songs...
expect something really big after the praise...you can expect the most comtempt statements like 'seerazhikirathu' etc.,
what is next .. ..
4. Raja spoils the movie by scoring dominating BGM
5.Raja spoils th Tamil Flim Music by using unnecessarily complicated orchestration...
6. Raja spoils all the carnatic ragams by using in movies...
( be mindful and careful here..the above three are from a well known music teacher in the class of balamurali krishna et al..)
few praising words about a song...
then...
7. Raja cannot compose without basing on any ragams..he copies ragams and most of the times spoils with combining with other raagams .
8. Raja not only spoils tamil but also malayalam, kanadam and Telugu..somebody has to do something to stop this..this is disaster to all the south indian languages..
..he is against dravidians...
then few praising ..with sugar coating...
what a pattern...whether we can predicate IR's song or not...but we can predict what is next from this pattern..
wow...pleae note that all these are from a very..very.. hardcore die-hard IR fan...Raja should be very proud to have such a great objective fans... Vazhga IR pugazha..Vazhga IR fans...
Thanks.
:) Why should raja be sad or unhappy about such fans? Ivanga ellorum thalaiyila thooki vachikittu aadinaalum seri, excellent analysis panninaalum seri, or yedhavadhu arai vekaatuthanamaaga ularinaalum seri, ellamae avarukku onnu dhaan ...doesn't matter to him at all.."as said in the poda poda punnakku song line" - "enna thoothuravan, thudhikiravan enakku onnu"...Quote:
Originally Posted by venus05
oru silarukku ingae genuine aadhangam....aanal vegu palarukku idhu neenda naal yerichal...30 varushama oru yeliya gramathaanai 'character assasination pannikitirukaanunga...The poor genious is ripped apart by media and pseudo fans in his own land...may be the 'hard core fan' tag could be part of the 'sugar coating' you have mentioned about....
எந்த கிணத்துக்குள்ள சார் இருக்கீங்க? ஓ வைரமுத்துவோடது வா?Quote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
எனக்கு வேண்டியது இசை மட்டுமே, வரிகளுக்கு நான் முக்கியத்துவம் கொடுத்ததில்லை மற்ற இசை அமைப்பாளர்கள் பாடல்களிலும் அதை தேடியதில்லை. ஞானி, யானி மேலும் புகழ் பெற்ற சிம்பொனி இசை அமைப்பாளர்கள் எல்லாம் தனி வகை.
எனக்கு எதாவது நல்ல கவிதை வாசிக்க வேண்டும் என்று தோன்றினால் இருக்கவே இருக்கிறது 'பாரதியார் கவிதைகள்" போன்றவை என்னிடம்.
நல்ல வரிக்கு இசை தேவை இல்லை :)
நல்ல இசைக்கு வரிகள் தேவை இல்லை :D
While I too admire Vairamuthu's lyrics and I do enjoy the wonderful work he had done with Raja and Rahman, there is certain truth in what Rajasaranam has said. One of my friend calls this 'templatization' You can almost see the sort of template that Vairamuthu uses in many songs. And given the argument that Vairamuthu's lyrics will turn around any song, why is it that other music directors have not been working with him continuously? Since the films that Venki mentions all have music by Rahman, what happened to Vairamuthu after he fell out with Rahman? And what was the movie for which he got a national award which had music by someone other than Raja or Rahman? Doesn't that prove that Vairamuthu requires a good music director to get the best out of him? Whether we like it or not, Raja has moved ahead with his music and inspite of all competition is still making music on his terms. Unfortunately after moving away from Rahman, Vairamuthu has not had a great innings. That's the truth, however bitter.
While people liberally quote words from Raja's songs, which he has not written, why do they forget that Vairamuthu also wrote 'Urvasi Urvasi'? More importantly, as a_e had argued earlier, why not quote the songs with 'great' lyrics that other MDs have consistently given. You mean 'muZhgada shippae friendshipA' is outstanding imagery? You mean 'dost bAdA dost, dostku illai vAstu' is amazing? How about 'nanbA nee oru ilavasa taxi?' or 'vAdA mapila, vazhapazha topula'? or 'kalyanam than kattikitu odipolama etc'? Compared to all the junk that comes up 'vaLLi vaLLi' sounds like outstanding literature :) So how come no other MD is blamed for downright bad lyrics in their songs while Raja is blamed for decent lyrics?
Countering what genesis says about ratio of good and bad songs, I can say that the number of songs which had downright bad and trivial lyrics was very very less when it came to Raja's songs. So if you take such horrible lyrics as a metric, you will find that Raja has done far better than the other MDs in this regard. As anyone is management knows, depending on what metrics you choose you can make something appear great or bad!!
I am not arguing that all Raja's songs have great lyrics. All I am saying is that when you choose a yardstick use it for everyone. You turn a blind eye when it comes to the current crop of MDs because the songs are 'fun', 'cool' etc and don't bother about the quite good lyrics that Muthulingam wrote in Virumandi for that story-song, or what Muthulingam wrote for Avatharam, 'thondru thotu' etc but selectively quote 'vaLLi vaLLi'.
So here is the question to you venki. Can you go ahead and quote the songs of Raja which you felt the lyricist had done a great job, especially in the post Vairamuthu period? Maybe that will be good to analyze. Try it and you may find some nice ones. And BTW, venki, how come your Tamil teacher did not mention Vairamuthu?
There are 2 sides to any coin. Did any tamil lyricist get awrad other than VM under IR music? VM got only once for Mudhal Mariyadhai, and we know what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Urvasi Urvasi is by Vaali.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
This is Apples to Oranges comparison. Most of the movies irrespective of MD have couple of songs like you quoted. The point here is "valli valli" has good tune, why not complement it with good lyrics and voice? If IR wants to do only music, why even bother to add lyrics and voice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Never, Never... I never said anything like these. I have also not seen even IR's best critics say any thing like this. #4-6 above seems to be from some "vaitherichal" MD... it is best to ignore him.Quote:
Originally Posted by venus05
Unfortunately 90% IRs work falls neither under "symphony" nor under "kavidhai". We call them Thirai Paadal...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjeevi
For me paadal is a team work.. It needs good music, good lyrics and good voice. Whatever arguments you make, by the end of the day all of the greatest Tamil film hits have a great combination of all three.
Damn! An innocent remark on IR's preference for colloquial has been turned into an occasion for lurking specimen to open season.
Of all the MD's in tfm history, ir is one who has deep knowledge of tamil literature and can write decent lyrics. Who else? T Rajender maybe.
What the hecj, are we to believe that arrys, rahman and co. have love for great tamil lyrics? Except for agenda cases here no one would say that.
Nadodi thendral had very good lyrics written by...well, never mind.
That IR prefers the colloquial cannot be a stick to beat him with.
Vairamuthu has mountains of mediocre vervai and meesai-asai lyrocs. Countless rahman numbers suffer from poor lyrics and poor tamil by the singer. If any one md in tn can do justice to tamil, that is IR. For that, he'd need poetry of the calibre of bharathi or thiruvasagam. If he doesn't rate current kavignars, that is his prerogative. Using this to glorify tanil-killing mds and beating Ir is ridiculous
genesis,
That is exactly my argument. There are two sides to any coin and you are selectively seeing one side. I just posted to show that we can selectively do that with regards to Vairamuthu as well as venki has been trying to do with Raja. I don't have any great regard for the national award. How many did Kannadasan get? If you know the answer to it, you will not worry too much about national awards. My aim in that para was to show that we can have two sides to the coin and depending on who is your favourite, you can according see that side.
From whatever I know, 'Urvashi' is by Vairamuthu. Here are a couple of websites which say so.
http://www.mohankumars.com/lyrics/index.php?m=s&lid=591
http://www.shyju.com/index.php?showtopic=6822
Again I was quoting the songs against 'vaLLi vaLLi' just to show the selectivity. I mean, does no other MD have a good tune with very normal lyrics, maybe not pathetic lyrics? I am sure you can find it in every MD. I just exaggerated the comparison. What about 'Asai Asai' song or 'Un Samayal Arayil'? Very template based. Even 'kannuku mai azhagu' is so much template driven as far as lyrics are concerned. I am probably quoting some of the better songs. There are so many more songs of many MDs which have a nice melody, driven by mediocre lyrics. If we can start a thread showing how nice tunes of many MDs do not have the quality of lyrics matching the tune, that is fine. Making it out that it only happens in Raja songs is what I am against.