Ramayana - Another Great Epic

Hi Balaji
Hanuman does not know about his strength at that time when he is running all around the world with Sugriva to escape from Vali.It is due to some curse.Hanuman will come to know about his strength through Jambavan before he jumps to cross the coean.If he had known his strength previously, he would have fought with Vali.SO, Hanuman does not know he is a very strong person with lot of powers till Jambavan reminds him about it and dispels the curse. They hide in the mountains because Vali cannot come to that mountain.
Vali will kill a demon and will fling the bones.This will fall on a rishi's hut and rishi will curse that the person who did that will have his head blown if he comes to the place.that is why sugriva will hide in that mountain as Vali cannot come there

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Originally Posted by S.Balaji

I wonder why Sugriva did not use Hanuman to fight Valee…. After all Hanuman is all powerful and mighty …..
Besides, Hanuman is not an ordinary person to run away and go along with Sugriva…. To be away from the crutches of Valee……though he played a supportive role to Sugriva…

Any reason for this ….

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This very same question is raised by Rama, in the Uttara Kanda, to sage Agastya, who is narrating the events of earlier days. You may see the reason here:

http://www.harimozhi.com/Article.asp?id=47

Dear Mr. Hari Krishnan,

Thank you very much for the link. Another interesting feature has been the presence of Sage Agastiyar … I presume he must be the same Agastiyar to whom Lord Shiva told him to move down to South of Podhigai to maintain the balance of the earth as the entire world was moving to North to attend Lord Shiva’s Wedding to Parvathi Devi. Is Agastiyar an another personality who lived long …. And he had also wrote a lot about Lord Muruga. . There is also another saying that Agastiyar only brought Tamil ….
There is another episode which I saw in the movie Agastiyar… Playing veena with Ravana and winning the duel…. Did it happen actually ?

Agastiyar will also caution Sri Rama while they were in forest to take care of Sita ( before the Ravana episode ) .. I had read this in Chakaravarthy Thirumagan of Rajaji

Agastiya tells the slokam "Aditya Hrudayam" to Lord Rama to make him courageous before the battle.he is one of the saptha rishis.

Glad to note that Mr.Hari-Krishnan has been well- crowned as PRO- HUBBER...

Thus my recommendation and requests have been duly considered. Thanks to the Administrators.. In my opinion Mr. Hari-krishnan deserves more.

On my postings regarding Vali... Mr Hari has commented analytically ... by which he has decorated and bejewelled the Topic indepth.... kindling my thoughts deeply.

I am waiting for others to comment on these differeing views.... after hearing which I want to put forth, my further comments relevant to Mr. Hari's Thought-provoking points.

Especially Mr. Badri, who has already put forth his own views prior to Mr. Hari,... anything got to say now?

Sorry to interrupt on the interesting discussion; I heard someone say today that according to the telugu version of Ramayana, Sita is elder to Rama (by 4 yrs).
Is that true and does Valmiki Ramayana concur with this?

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Originally Posted by viggop

Agastiya tells the slokam "Aditya Hrudayam" to Lord Rama to make him courageous before the battle.he is one of the saptha rishis.

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Since Viggop mentioned about Aditya Hrudhayam, I thought it will be appropriate to put this thread below :

http://www.saigan.com/heritage/gods/art1.html

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Originally Posted by viggop

Hi Balaji
Hanuman does not know about his strength at that time when he is running all around the world with Sugriva to escape from Vali.It is due to some curse.Hanuman will come to know about his strength through Jambavan before he jumps to cross the coean.If he had known his strength previously, he would have fought with Vali.SO, Hanuman does not know he is a very strong person with lot of powers till Jambavan reminds him about it and dispels the curse. They hide in the mountains because Vali cannot come to that mountain.

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yes this happens in Ramaeshwaram coast, this is where Jambavan reveals the truth to hanuman ji

Dear Hari Krishnan Sir,

When (which period) exactly did Agastya live (in)? If he lived at the same time as Rama, when did Ramayana take place?

Cud you let us know more about Agastya, from not only the Ramayana, but from other sources you may know of.

Thanks much.

agasthiyar is one of the saptharishis.very important sage in hindu pantheon.i think it is agasthiyar who finally reveals to Rama that he is an avatar of Vishnu.

i am reading a trAnslation of valmiki ramayanam.in that,it is mentioned that indrajith sends forth a naga asthram which ties both rama and lakshmana and both lose conciousness.later,rama recovers.Then,Garuda appears and all the snakes slither away.
did neither rama nor lakshmana have a counter weapon for this naga asthra used by indrajith.

Can anyone explain the meaning of the Names occuring in the epics Ramayana and Mahabaratha?

Perhaps create a new thread like Ramayana for Foreigners or similar. Will help me and my european friends to understand the Indian Culture and society better.

Thanks

sivajayan
If you browse this full thread, i wud have mentioned the meaning of the name Rama.

Ravaana was a great devotee of Lord Shiva, and Shiva had blessed him that he could not be destroyed. Lord Ram knew of this, and he knew that the only solution was to pray to Lord Shiv to rescind that boon given to Ravaana so that Lord Ram could kill Ravaana. (This is from the Ramayana)

The story of GUHA, ruler of the small Kingdom of Shrang-veh-pur. Guha was the devoted friend of Bhagvan Sri Ram. But how did he become a friend of Sri Ram? In his previous life, he was an aborignal hunter named GURUDRO. One day he was tracking a deer, but the deer was too swift for him. He kept following the deer (peche … peche) but he could not get off an arrow. Soon he was tired and climbed up into a tree to see if he could spot the animal. As he looked all around, he began absent-mindedly to pluck the leaves from the tree and throw them unto the ground. Unknowing to him, he was sitting on a sacred Bilva tree (bay leaves) and again unknowing to him, the leaves were falling unto a natural Shivlingam which was hidden just below the surface of the earth. As the leaves kept falling unto the Shivling, the positive energy of Lord Shiva began to influence Gurudro’s mind. When the deer appeared close by, he found that he did not want to kill it. He began to struggle with his conscience. He was torn with the thoughts of killing an innocent animal and his duty to feed his hungry family. Soon his attention fell on the spot where the Shivling rested. He descended from the tree, cleared the earth from around the Shivling and began to cry and pray aloud as he kneeled and hugged the Shivling. “Mera Kalyan karo Bhagvan,” he repeated over and over. Lord Shiva appeared before him in the form of a Yogi. He said, “Utto (get up) Grurdro. It is a sin to kill. But it is also a sin not to do your duty. Today is Shivaraarti, and because of your worship, your prayer is answered. Your past sins are forgiven. From here on, you will live as the King of Shrang-veh-pur. In Treta Yuga, Sri Vishnu will incarnate on earth as Sri Ram. You will be his friend.” And so in the Ramayana, when Sri Ram went to Gurukula (Ashram school), he befriended Guha who was at the same school. Later when Sri Ram went to Banbaas, he had to pass through Shrang-veh-pur and again met Guha, his lifelong friend.

Ravana was not a great devotee of Shiva from the beginning.As i mentioned in the story before, he even opposed HIM and shook the himalayas.After Shiva quelled his arrogance with his toe,only then he became devotee of Shiva and got a life for 3 crore years.Also, lot of times, he abused the trinity.Only before the final battle with Rama, he prayed again to Lord Shiva.

I dont think Rama befriended Guha in his gurukul days.I think he first met Guha in the forest only.

How does Hanuman become a chiranjeevi? Was it given to him in his birth or he earned it like Vibishana?

I think Sita blesses him to be a Chiranjeevi

After the war, and after Sita is rescued and is united with Rama, she blesses him to be a Chiranjeevi

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

I think Sita blesses him to be a Chiranjeevi

After the war, and after Sita is rescued and is united with Rama, she blesses him to be a Chiranjeevi

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I think Hanumanji got this boon from Lord Brahma when he was a kid while trying to grap Suryan ...thinking that it is a red ball .....

Indira will hit him with Vajrayudham and Hanuman will fall unconscious ...As he is the son of Vayu.... Vayu will get upset with this and will stop his activity ..... the whole world will suffer and will plead to Vayu and Brahma ...finally vayu will accede to the request of the devas and will resume his duty..
Brahma will give Hanuman a boon at this time that he will be a Chiranjeevi.....and even Bramastra will not affect him...

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Originally Posted by S.Balaji

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

I think Sita blesses him to be a Chiranjeevi

After the war, and after Sita is rescued and is united with Rama, she blesses him to be a Chiranjeevi

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I think Hanumanji got this boon from Lord Brahma when he was a kid while trying to grap Suryan ...thinking that it is a red ball .....

Indira will hit him with Vajrayudham and Hanuman will fall unconscious ...As he is the son of Vayu.... Vayu will get upset with this and will stop his activity ..... the whole world will suffer and will plead to Vayu and Brahma ...finally vayu will accede to the request of the devas and will resume his duty..
Brahma will give Hanuman a boon at this time that he will be a Chiranjeevi.....and even Bramastra will not affect him...

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as far as I know this is correct

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Originally Posted by S.Balaji

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

I think Sita blesses him to be a Chiranjeevi

After the war, and after Sita is rescued and is united with Rama, she blesses him to be a Chiranjeevi

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I think Hanumanji got this boon from Lord Brahma when he was a kid while trying to grap Suryan ...thinking that it is a red ball .....

Indira will hit him with Vajrayudham and Hanuman will fall unconscious ...As he is the son of Vayu.... Vayu will get upset with this and will stop his activity ..... the whole world will suffer and will plead to Vayu and Brahma ...finally vayu will accede to the request of the devas and will resume his duty..
Brahma will give Hanuman a boon at this time that he will be a Chiranjeevi.....and even Bramastra will not affect him...

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Yes... I agree it is CORRECT... as Mr. Balaji says. That Boon was granted to the Boy Hanuman... by Brahma.

May I know... What is meant by... Will.... Will... Will.?... Tamilised- English.?

Is the story of Hanuman's childhood days told in the Ramayana?Or is it said in some other purana?

People who know to read Thamizh can go here and read about Hanuman.This is available in book form too.

http://www.harimozhi.com/article.asp?id=42

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

May I know... What is meant by... Will.... Will... Will.?... Tamilised- English.?

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May I know... What is meant by... dot.... dot... dot.?... Dotolised-English.? :lol:

Let me please know why you perforate your contributions though I am less interested?

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Originally Posted by sivajayan

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

May I know... What is meant by... Will.... Will... Will.?... Tamilised- English.?

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May I know... What is meant by... dot.... dot... dot.?... Dotolised-English.? :lol:

Let me please know why you perforate your contributions though I am less interested?

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Ha Ha Ha.. Well. I enjoyed reading this Joke....

Regarding my unusual way of presentation... with Splits and Dots ... in between the same sentence..

I am a Writer not ony here but also elsewhere too. My Articles and other matters have been published in Magazines. I write Books too.

And this way of writing is my own style of writing... as every writer has got something different and unique style (Baani) of ones own, by way of expressions, approach as also in splitting and aligning the words and lines...

... on which every Writer is allowed freedom... unquestioned .. as a matter of convention.

Well. Why should I present so?.. What way it is preferred according to my perception?

I am a sincere student and ardent follower of the writing-styles of the famous Writers like... Kalki, Kannadasan, CNAnnadurai, Wodehouse and such others.... and further I have pruned a little further, suiting to the contemporary days.

In brief, this is a DRAMATIC INTONATION ... or CONVERSATIONAL STYLE ... of breaking the sentence with pauses and stops in the midst.. to highlight the particular cluster of words with more emphasis on its sense..

To ascertain this fact further... you can try practically. Please write the same sentences, in the regular Text-book order and read first...

.. and then you read in my way. You can feel the difference of the deep impression each batch of words delivers its impact... coupled with its implied sense.

Some people may not agree with me nor appreciate... and may even pooh pooh my concept. ... Yes. Because,... Taste differs

Well It is my way.. which has been appreciated by many many. Readers as well as different Magazine- Editors.

I know... You will enjoy making fun of this message.... by ridicule and mock at me... as well as gain sadistic pleasure to INSULT ME EVEN... as you are habitually doing so far... Well it is your way of approach on life... Yes Enjoy... I will continue to tolerate such UNDUE PERSONAL INJURIES.. Because in the major part of my Life I have extremely and unduly suffered and so used to it..

However... I have replied in the interest of my well-wisher Readers and Fans... who may be curious to know the reason behind this unusual phenomena here.

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

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Originally Posted by sivajayan

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

May I know... What is meant by... Will.... Will... Will.?... Tamilised- English.?

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May I know... What is meant by... dot.... dot... dot.?... Dotolised-English.? :lol:

Let me please know why you perforate your contributions though I am less interested?

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Ha Ha Ha.. Well. I enjoyed reading this Joke....

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Great, Thaaththaa

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Some people may not agree with me nor appreciate... and may even pooh pooh my concept. ... Yes. Because,... Taste differs

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Do they really.. even pooh pooh...? :lol: Must be ... bad people .... these people .... or are they simply normal ... perhaps even not reading books ... in different libraries .... Gaining knowledge of yester years ... and the views of prehistoric stone agers...

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Well It is my way.. which has been appreciated by many many. Readers as well as different Magazine- Editors.

I know... You will enjoy making fun of this message.... by ridicule and mock at me... as well as gain sadistic pleasure to INSULT ME EVEN... as you are habitually doing so far... Well it is your way of approach on life... Yes Enjoy... I will continue to tolerate such UNDUE PERSONAL INJURIES.. Because in the major part of my Life I have extremely and unduly suffered and so used to it..

However... I have replied in the interest of my well-wisher Readers and Fans... who may be curious to know the reason behind this unusual phenomena here.

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And this is my way ... appreciated by all... except you ... and not tolerated by Moderators ... but not all ... :lol:

But the silly thing is that you take it as personal as you can. Why can't you take it as my way? May be ... you must first read some of my unwritten books... and understand before you read. :lol:

Dear Mr. Sivajayan,

We both are taking this Thread towards a different direction far away from the Scope of this Thread... and thus TRANSGESSING our bounds...

So Let us Stop further discussions of PERSONAL CLASH.. anymore here in this Thread ... as Digression.

Well... I will reply you... soon in another relevant Thread.

With Best Wishes,
Sudhaama.

Sita's statement in ramayana

You, Rama, rejected me because you fear that my body was defiled by his touch, though you know my heart was pure. This anti-god (Ravana) wanted my heart, even though he knew my body was taken by you. Some day, intelligent people will know who was a nobler lover

Ravana wanting Sita's heart is not true.He wanted Sita to bow to him and comply.He could not accept the rejection of his love by a woman.He, the emperor of all 3 worlds, the most powerful demon who could have all things he wanted, could not stand rejection.His ego did not allow it.He wanted Sita to bow to him only to satisfy his ego.If she had bowed to him even once and complied, he wud have kept her in his harem like lot of other women whom he abducted.he could not take Sita by force because of the curse that his head will break into thousand pieces.

Ravana was a habitual sex offender and had no respect for the womenkind.Harikirshnan Sir has dealt with this aspect beautifully in his chennaionline series.

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Dear Mr. Sivajayan,

We both are taking this Thread towards a different direction far away from the Scope of this Thread... and thus TRANSGESSING our bounds...

So Let us Stop further discussions of PERSONAL CLASH.. anymore here in this Thread ... as Digression.

Well... I will reply you... soon in another relevant Thread.

With Best Wishes,
Sudhaama.

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It was you misusing this thread .. not only this one ... for personal sales promotion ... if I may oppose you as usual .... with deepest respect.... Sir!
I am eagerly waiting ... for your reply... "soon in another relevant Thread"... but Sire... please don't cry for the nanny thereafter, please. :lol:

Can anyone tell me why this story - ramayana - reminds me of a greek mythology? Is there anybody aware of greek mythologies? :roll:

Hi viggop, your point makes logical sense for the story, it could be true that Ravana was not wanting her heart, but just her subjugation. The boon thing adds the logic for it.

But was Rama correct in suspecting sita ?, that too by making her walk on fire. Does this not manifest complete male chuvaninsm, treating women just as a sex object, that too an object with chastity. Was he not broad minded enough to accept Sita even if she was helplessly raped by ravana. What is the message that Ramayana conveys in its climax ?

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Originally Posted by mahadevan

Hi viggop, your point makes logical sense for the story, it could be true that Ravana was not wanting her heart, but just her subjugation. The boon thing adds the logic for it.

But was Rama correct in suspecting sita ?, that too by making her walk on fire. Does this not manifest complete male chuvaninsm, treating women just as a sex object, that too an object with chastity. Was he not broad minded enough to accept Sita even if she was helplessly raped by ravana. What is the message that Ramayana conveys in its climax ?

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Dear Mahadev,

This aspect was discussed long back, Shree RamaChandar asks Devi Sita to cross the fire to prove her purity to the citizens of Ayodiya, Shree RamaChandar NEVER EVER doubted his wife, this issue has been WIDELY misused or misinterpreted by most ppl

:cry: :cry:

Mahadevan
I think Sudhamma has tounched on this point in this thread.Please see the archives of this thread.

Shree RamaChandar asks Devi Sita to cross the fire to prove her purity to the citizens of Ayodiya

was Rama supportive of the view that Sita needs to be sexually pure ? personally was he convinced or not about Sita's chastity is immaterial.
Why should he prove to the people of Ayodiya that Sita was pure, is it just because he personally felt the same or was he just perpetuating (instead of opposing) male chuvanism that was existing among the people of Ayodiya.

If Rama was a noble soul, then he should told the people that even if Ravana had forefully raped Sita, Sita should not be blamed for this, and such acts should never be equated to defiling of a women's chastity, as she did not do so by her own will.

I had asked a question previously.
Is the story regarding birth of Hanuman and his childhood days part of ramayana? or is it bhagwatha purana?

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Originally Posted by Raghu

Dear Mahadev,

This aspect was discussed long back, Shree RamaChandar asks Devi Sita to cross the fire to prove her purity to the citizens of Ayodiya, Shree RamaChandar NEVER EVER doubted his wife, this issue has been WIDELY misused or misinterpreted by most ppl

:cry: :cry:

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Now, with today's knowledge you talk so! I don't have to own the imaginative power to see how it was yesterday!
I am quite sure that ramayana only discribes the culture and civilisation of that period it was written like a lot of other stuff in the greek or roman mythologies do.

It is told a blind is a visionary among ...

The nine moods of Sri Rama has been described in a Sanskrit shloka. The following is the shloka on 'Navarasa Rama':
Shrngaaram kshithinandhini viharane, Veeram dhanurbhanjane
haasyam shoorpanamukhe, Bhayam aghe, Bheebatsam anyamukhe, Kaarunyam balibhojane, Adbhutharasam sindhau giri sthapane, Raudhro raavana mardhane, Munijane shaantham
vapuh paathunah

Translation:
Love while sporting with the daughter of Goddess earth, heroism while breaking the bow, humour on seeing the face of Shoorpanaka, fear of sins, disgust for another lady's face, compassion in the kakasura episode, wonder while placing the mountain on the ocean, anger while killing Raavana, tranquility towards sages.

The agni pravesa episode too has been very extensively dealt with by Mr. Harikrishnan in his chennaionline series. I quote here some statements to make the point that Rama's behavior in this chapter, although not throughly convincing by today's standards, can still be justified.
Rama never doubted Sita - this is apparent from many subtle points, which I cannot do justice to if I go into it and so, I will just quote a couple.
Rama asked that Sita be decorated like a queen when she is brought to meet him after the war; he sends her this message with Vibhishana. He specifically asks her to dress herself up only because he knows that she would not already be so. If she had acceded to Ravana's wishes, one may take for granted that she would not anymore be wearing her old rags.
Also, after she is brought to his presence, when he addresses her, he says "the sight of your person hurts me like light hurting a diseased eye". It is quite apparent from this statement what he thought of her and also what he thought of himself for choosing to do this to her.
As to whether it was really necessary to prove her chastity to the people of ayodhya, this is how I see it - He was a king; he had already accepted the throne when Bharata visited him in the forest. He could have very well said that he trusted Sita and that should be good enough for everyone. If he had said that, I am sure, nobody would have dared to question him. But, he did not choose to be such domineering king whose word should be the law. By disowning Sita in public, he set the standard that the king is a servant of the people and that he ( in this case, the king and queen) should have standards higher than average that the public should be inspired to emulate.
I would very much have loved it if Rama had said either that he knew Sita was pure or that she being the helpless victim of rape does not taint her in anyway. But, I think, Valmiki chose to place the burden of ungentlemanly behavior on Rama to exemplify the exceptional chastity of Sita. Had Rama not acted that way, Sita would not have had such shining glory. I think, this brings out Rama's nobility more than if he had accepted her without question.

From Sudhaama's Post
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(1) Seshathwam ( SEVAKAM in Tamil) =

Direct Service to God / King / Leader...
(“SEVAKAMUM” yaam paadi Varuththamum theerndhu - Thiruppaavai)

(2) Paarathanthriyam (PARHAI in Tamil =

Indirect Service by Carrying out the Orders of God / King / Leader
(Yitrai-p-“PARHAI” kolhvaan anrhu kaanh Govindha - Thiruppaavai)

Out of all others in Ramayana duly recognised by Rama for their worthy services and so invited to accompany Him to Vaikunta...

.. Only Hanumaan refused to accompany ..

.. while all others gladly accepted Rama’s offer,

.. after that Awathaara was completed and so Hanukman was left behind on Earth.

Hanuman sought to continue on Earth, because he had already tasted the pleasure of SESHATHWAM (Sevakam)

.. but yet wanted to have the pleasure of PAARATHANTHRIYAM (Parhai) also more...

.. which is preferred by his Lord Rama / Narayana .. from any of His devotees ..

.. better than the SEVAKAM (Direct service to Himself.).

"Rama asked that Sita be decorated like a queen when she is brought to meet him after the war; he sends her this message with Vibhishana. He specifically asks her to dress herself up only because he knows that she would not already be so. If she had acceded to Ravana's wishes, one may take for granted that she would not anymore be wearing her old rags."

If Sita had conceeded she would have been added to the list of Ravana's concubines, and not his queen. So the statement of Ram can be construed to be 'Rama not wanting to see sita dressed as a concubine, rather than he not wanting to see her in rags'.


"Also, after she is brought to his presence, when he addresses her, he says "the sight of your person hurts me like light hurting a diseased eye". It is quite apparent from this statement what he thought of her and also what he thought of himself for choosing to do this to her."

This is simply a very normanl human statement, when a person is imprisoned for such a long time, she would look miserably and when her hubby gets to see her in that state, such a statement looks very ordinary, definetly not noble. A noble statement would have been something that addressed her inner beauty/commitment/resolve, apparently Rama was very ordinary that scene.


"But, he did not choose to be such domineering king whose word should be the law. By disowning Sita in public, he set the standard that the king is a servant of the people and that he ( in this case, the king and queen) should have standards higher than average that the public should be inspired to emulate."

Instead of telling the correct thing vehemently he preferred to tell the wrong male chuvanistic ideas just to appease the masses, so that they thing he is not domineering ? hey his politics shames that of Amma/MK.


"Had Rama not acted that way, Sita would not have had such shining glory. I think, this brings out Rama's nobility more than if he had accepted her without question"

That was a shamefull statement, it accepts sita jumping in the pyre to prove her greatness, and Rama became more noble because of that !!!!! , is Kovalan equally noble because of the same reason ?