methodology!! very happy!!
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¬É¡ø, º¢ÅÉ¢ý Á¾ò¨¾ «Å÷ À¡¼ø¸Ç¢ý ÅÆ¢ ¿¡õ ¿¢ÚŢɡø, PhD Å¡íÌÅмý, ¯Ä¸ô Ò¸Øõ «¨¼óÐÅ¢¼Ä¡õ.
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ÅûÙÅ÷ Á¾ò¨¾ì ¸ñÎÀ¢Êì¸ º¢Ä÷ ¨¸Â¡ñÎûÇ ÅÆ¢¨Âô À¢ýÀüÈ¢, ±øÄ¡Õ¨¼Â Á¾í¸¨ÇÔõ ¸ñÎÀ¢ÊòÐÅ¢¼Ä¡õ.
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name as indicator of religion
±ýÉ¡ø ´òÐ즸¡ûÇ ÓÊÂÅ¢ø¨Ä.
±ý ¦º¡ó¾ì¸¡Ãý ´ÕÅý - ¦ÀÂ÷ ÍôÃÁ½¢Âó¾¡ý. ´Õ ÁÄ¡öô¦Àñ¨½ Á½óЦ¸¡ñ¼¡ý. þøº¢Âô ¦ÀÂ÷ †¡º¡ý «ôÐøÄ¡!! «ÖÅĸò¾¢ø, ¦ÅǢ¢ø ¦ÀÂ÷ ÍôÃÁ½¢Âý. ÁÄ¡ö측â Á¨ÉÅ¢: "abang hasan! abang hasan" ±ýÚ ÜôÀ¢ÎÅ¡û.
þýÛõ ÀÄ ¯¾¡Ã½í¸û ¯ûÇÉ. þÅ¨É Å¢¼ìܼ¡Ð ±ýÚ ¿¡í¸û §¸¡Â¢ø ⨺ìÌ Åâ §¸ð§¼¡õ. 61 Á§Äº¢Â ¦ÅûÇ¢ ¦¸¡Îò¾¡ý. §¸¡Å¢ÖìÌ ÅóÐ ±í¸¨Çô À¡÷òÐ "†§Ä¡" ¦º¡øĢŢðÎô §À¡öÅ¢ð¼¡ý.
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ºÃ¢, À¡Ã¾¢Â¡¨Ã Å¢ðΠŢð¼¡Öõ ÁüÈÅ÷¸û Á¡ðÊ즸¡ñ¼¡÷¸û «øÄÅ¡?
Historical Religions and Tiruvalluvar
Friends,
Jesus is certainly not a well attested Historic Personalitym and now important events such as Exodus of BIble and Quran are myths.
So to compare Jesus here is meaningless.
Valluvar has clearly refered Parppan Ooththu, Anthanar Nurkum Aram- all references as to Hindu Vedas.
Ashraff repeats with same highly biased authors do not confirm anything.
Mala has left all decency to attack.
Valluavar was Reform minded Vedic is an acceted and well attested by Kural.
MMS
Tiruvalluvar is Purely Vedic
Friends,
Tholkappiyam is dated around 50-100CE or later. Sangam Literature around 200 BCE TO 200CE. Tirukural 250 CE.
Silapathikaram and Manimekhalai- 275-300CE
Thani-Tamil Movement which came as a Tamil movement became a
tool of Politicians and PAVANAR- who used his articles as Missionary tools.
The latest DNA Position puts Two Races- 1.Black from African Continent & 2.Brown or Fairer from India are two races appeared early in the earth. If Black is Negroes and Brown is Aryans. When these two moved and mixed and based on climate of living became white etc., Dravidians are people who came from outside..
But as Vedas stand Mother to India and Brahmins as Custodians for it Missionaries and Nonsense Researchers wrote meaningless articles all falsified.
Swami Vivekananda on Aryan-Dravidian-
//In India we have fallen during the last few centuries into a fixed habit of unquestioning deference to Authority. .. We are ready to accept all European Theories; “the theory of an “Aryan Colonisation of Dravidian India”; the theory of Nature Worship and Henotheism of the Vedic Rishis .. .. as if these Hazardous Speculations were on Par in Authority and Certainty with the law of Gravity and Theory of Evolution.
So Great is the force of Generalisation and widely popularised errors that all the world goes on Perpetuating the blunder talking of the Indo-European Races claiming or disclaiming Aryan Kinship and building on that basis of falsehood the most far-reaching Political, social or Pseudo Scientific Conclusion.’// -Swami Vivekananda
The Missionary minded Indologists who found that Sanskrit was Mother of Greek and Latin- which in turn were the Eldest of Most European Languages, and the amount of Depth and Knowledge in it brought the “Aryan” Invasion Myths- i.e., Indians are not capable of such a Wealth Language and Civilisation. It is a continual attack to run down India's great accomplishments and Civilisation...
Proper Study of Harappah and Mohanjadero now confirms that most of its Contents are Aryan, And the Speculation of the Seals being Proto Dravidian is weakening. Even the Die-hard Aryan Incoming Supporters put that from BCE7000- 1500. Linguists who worked with Tamil, popularly Identified as Dravidianists from Caldwell, Burrows etc., – All say Dravidians came around 3000 BCE and later to India from Outside.
SWAMI VIVEKANANDA : “There is not one word in our scriptures, not one, to prove that the Aryans ever came from anywhere outside India.... The whole of India is Aryan, nothing else.”
U.S. archaeologist Jim Shaffer puts it : “Current archaeological data do not support the existence of an Indo-Aryan or European invasion into South Asia any time in the pre- or protohistoric periods. Instead, it is possible to document archaeologically a series of cultural changes reflecting indigenous cultural developments from prehistoric to historic periods”
Kenneth A. R. Kennedy, biological anthropologist at Cornell University, U.S.A., who has worked extensively on Harappan sites to study human skeletal remains, concludes unambiguously: “Biological anthropologists remain unable to lend support to any of the theories concerning an Aryan biological or demographic entity.... What the biological data demonstrate is that no exotic races are apparent from laboratory studies of human remains excavated from any archaeological sites, including those accorded Aryan status [by the old school]. All prehistoric human remains recovered thus far from the Indian subcontinent are phenotypically identifiable as ancient South Asians.... In short, there is no evidence of demographic disruptions in the north-western sector of the subcontinent during and immediately after the decline of the Harappan culture.”
J. M. Kenoyer, who is still pursuing excavations at Harappa, is even more categorical :There is no archaeological or biological evidence for invasions or mass migrations into the Indus Valley between the end of the Harappan Phase, about 1900 BC and the beginning of the Early Historic period around 600 BC.
SWAMI VIVEKANANDA //”We are ready to accept all European Theories; “the theory of an “Aryan Colonisation of Dravidian India”; the theory of Nature Worship and Hynotheism of the Vedic Rishis .. .. as if these Hazardous Speculations were on Par in Authority and Certainity with the law of Gravity and Theory of Evolution.”//
Sangam and Tholkappiyam to Manimekhalai are all based on Vedasand refers that so and I give-Historian M. G. S. Narayanan, who finds in Sangam literature –
“no trace of another, indigenous, culture other than what may be designated as tribal and primitive.” And concludes :
“The Aryan-Dravidian or Aryan-Tamil dichotomy envisaged by some scholars may have to be given up since we are unable to come across anything which could be designated as purely Aryan or purely Dravidian in the character of South India of the Sangam Age. In view of this, the Sangam culture has to be looked upon as expressing in a local idiom all the essential features of classical “Hindu” culture. M. G. S. Narayanan, “The Vedic-Puranic-Shastraic Element in Tamil Sangam Society and Culture,” in Essays in Indian Art, Religion and Society, p. 128.
Nilakanta Sastri goes a step further and opines,
“There does not exist a single line of Tamil literature written before the Tamils came into contact with, and let us add accepted with genuine appreciation, the Indo-Aryan culture of North Indian origin.”
Jainism is a movement from Hinduism and its ideologies are totally agiasnt family life, Women etc., which is all totally against Valluvam
Re: Tiruvalluvar is Purely Vedic
Quote:
Originally Posted by devapriya
Friends,
Tholkappiyam is dated around 50-100CE or later. Sangam Literature around 200 BCE TO 200CE. Tirukural 250 CE.
Silapathikaram and Manimekhalai- 275-300CE
Thani-Tamil Movement which came as a Tamil movement became a
tool of Politicians and PAVANAR- who used his articles as Missionary tools.
The latest DNA Position puts Two Races- 1.Black from African Continent & 2.Brown or Fairer from India are two races appeared early in the earth. If Black is Negroes and Brown is Aryans. When these two moved and mixed and based on climate of living became white etc., Dravidians are people who came from outside..
But as Vedas stand Mother to India and Brahmins as Custodians for it Missionaries and Nonsense Researchers wrote meaningless articles all falsified.
Swami Vivekananda on Aryan-Dravidian-
//In India we have fallen during the last few centuries into a fixed habit of unquestioning deference to Authority. .. We are ready to accept all European Theories; “the theory of an “Aryan Colonisation of Dravidian India”; the theory of Nature Worship and Henotheism of the Vedic Rishis .. .. as if these Hazardous Speculations were on Par in Authority and Certainty with the law of Gravity and Theory of Evolution.
So Great is the force of Generalisation and widely popularised errors that all the world goes on Perpetuating the blunder talking of the Indo-European Races claiming or disclaiming Aryan Kinship and building on that basis of falsehood the most far-reaching Political, social or Pseudo Scientific Conclusion.’// -Swami Vivekananda
The Missionary minded Indologists who found that Sanskrit was Mother of Greek and Latin- which in turn were the Eldest of Most European Languages, and the amount of Depth and Knowledge in it brought the “Aryan” Invasion Myths- i.e., Indians are not capable of such a Wealth Language and Civilisation. It is a continual attack to run down India's great accomplishments and Civilisation...
Proper Study of Harappah and Mohanjadero now confirms that most of its Contents are Aryan, And the Speculation of the Seals being Proto Dravidian is weakening. Even the Die-hard Aryan Incoming Supporters put that from BCE7000- 1500. Linguists who worked with Tamil, popularly Identified as Dravidianists from Caldwell, Burrows etc., – All say Dravidians came around 3000 BCE and later to India from Outside.
SWAMI VIVEKANANDA : “There is not one word in our scriptures, not one, to prove that the Aryans ever came from anywhere outside India.... The whole of India is Aryan, nothing else.”
U.S. archaeologist Jim Shaffer puts it : “Current archaeological data do not support the existence of an Indo-Aryan or European invasion into South Asia any time in the pre- or protohistoric periods. Instead, it is possible to document archaeologically a series of cultural changes reflecting indigenous cultural developments from prehistoric to historic periods”
Kenneth A. R. Kennedy, biological anthropologist at Cornell University, U.S.A., who has worked extensively on Harappan sites to study human skeletal remains, concludes unambiguously: “Biological anthropologists remain unable to lend support to any of the theories concerning an Aryan biological or demographic entity.... What the biological data demonstrate is that no exotic races are apparent from laboratory studies of human remains excavated from any archaeological sites, including those accorded Aryan status [by the old school]. All prehistoric human remains recovered thus far from the Indian subcontinent are phenotypically identifiable as ancient South Asians.... In short, there is no evidence of demographic disruptions in the north-western sector of the subcontinent during and immediately after the decline of the Harappan culture.”
J. M. Kenoyer, who is still pursuing excavations at Harappa, is even more categorical :There is no archaeological or biological evidence for invasions or mass migrations into the Indus Valley between the end of the Harappan Phase, about 1900 BC and the beginning of the Early Historic period around 600 BC.
SWAMI VIVEKANANDA //”We are ready to accept all European Theories; “the theory of an “Aryan Colonisation of Dravidian India”; the theory of Nature Worship and Hynotheism of the Vedic Rishis .. .. as if these Hazardous Speculations were on Par in Authority and Certainity with the law of Gravity and Theory of Evolution.”//
Sangam and Tholkappiyam to Manimekhalai are all based on Vedasand refers that so and I give-Historian M. G. S. Narayanan, who finds in Sangam literature –
“no trace of another, indigenous, culture other than what may be designated as tribal and primitive.” And concludes :
“The Aryan-Dravidian or Aryan-Tamil dichotomy envisaged by some scholars may have to be given up since we are unable to come across anything which could be designated as purely Aryan or purely Dravidian in the character of South India of the Sangam Age. In view of this, the Sangam culture has to be looked upon as expressing in a local idiom all the essential features of classical “Hindu” culture. M. G. S. Narayanan, “The Vedic-Puranic-Shastraic Element in Tamil Sangam Society and Culture,” in Essays in Indian Art, Religion and Society, p. 128.
Nilakanta Sastri goes a step further and opines,
“There does not exist a single line of Tamil literature written before the Tamils came into contact with, and let us add accepted with genuine appreciation, the Indo-Aryan culture of North Indian origin.”
Jainism is a movement from Hinduism and its ideologies are totally agiasnt family life, Women etc., which is all totally against Valluvam
Very Well-said... Devapriya... Hats off to you... for your BEAUTIFUL PRESENTATION of the matter coherently.
Some unbiased foreign Researchers are able to assert that the Tamilan-Culture was the original Aryan-Culture... and the most Ancient....
...originated from India... subsequently spread over the entire world.
Dr. Ambedkar used to proudly claim that he belongs to Aryans race.
As one of their strategies of DIVIDE AND RULE policy...Just to break the Unity amongst Indians of One and the same Nation...
... British rulers concocted many stories and baseless Fictional-History...
... to make a Novel- claim that Original Indians... so called NATIVES... were uncultured Savages...
... while the English people are Anglicans... Divine-descendants of Holy Angels from the Divine Super- world...
.. that India had already been invaded by Foreigners like Aryans... and we are only the Subsequents..
... that Tamil is the Unrefined Language of the so called Savages... called Dravidians.
... and thus Anglicans are the FITTEST TO RULE OVER THE WORLD...
Such a Birth-right and claim by British was vehemently opposed by Hitler...
...Quoting the Correct Indian History documented by the French and German Historians...
...which equi-vocally establish that the MOST ANCIENT NATION in the world... was Lemuria...
...centred around the so called Holy-Land... Indian Region... inhabited by the so called Aryans...who spread over the whole world from India...
... we the GERMANS TOO ARE OF INDIAN ORIGIN... And we are pure ARYANS... the Ever-wisest and Divine-Human-beings...
...So the ARYANS ARE THE FITTEST to rule over the whole world...and Not the Anglicans whose claim is unfounded.
As Swami Vivekananda has rightly said...the whole lot of Indians are of ONE RACE ARYANS..
But...they named amongst themselves... one section of people who migrated to foreign lands...
... on an Unique and unparallel principle (compared to any other World-Culture, so authenticated and inculcated to students)...
.. by a Practical Proverb... "Thirai kadal Odiyum Thiraviyam thaedu".
Such Migrators... were named as Dravidians (One who moves from place to place)
...the Dhaathu(Route-word in Sanskrit) for the word "Dravid" is DHRU ... which means "MOVE"... as is DHRAVYAM...for Money.
Several German Terminolgies have originated from Tamil.
Tamilian culture ... is the only Human-Culture in the world... where the MIND has been rendered the Supreme status even over Wisdom...
..by stating...YAAVARUM KAELHIR... ULHLHATHU ANAIYADHU UYARVU...
... AAKKAM ATHARVINAAY CHELLUM ASAIVILA OOKKAM UDAIYAAN UZHAI....
...OOZHAIYUM UPPAKKAM KAANHBAR ULAIVINRHI THAAZHAADHU UJNARHUBAVAR.
..which sort of Human-Culture and EXEMPLARY LIFE-CODE (Rendering the most Importance to Mind)... has taken a different shape subsequently... due to some Kings subsequent domination.
But it is UNDISPUTABLE in the Practical Life- sense... Ever-applicable
to the Global- Mankind...
...that MIND DESERVES THE SUPREME STATUS ... in the Life-pursuits..
... as ascertained by the Universal Human-doctrine... Thirukkuralh.
.
Tiruvalluvar A Vedic Lover
Dear Friends,
Problem is History is WRONGLY Thought over last 200 years.
By15th & 16 th Centuries Muslim rule came to Tamilnadu, and Tamil rulers were weak, and came Marati and Vijaynagar Kings, and drove muslims out, they had earlier plundered Madurai- Meenakshu Temple and Srirangam among others. To make this Other Language Rulers Scholars used excessive Sanskrit filled Tamil, and this required little Cleansing, but the Tano-Tamil movement was Hijacked by Church and Barbaric Dravidian movement people, E.V.Ramasamy Naicker says entire Sangam and Tirukural Collections as Human Dung and to be Thrown. Tirukural, Vedas and Sangam Lit. were all misinterpreted.
Tiruvalluvar's 3 Kurals were Highlighted-
Athists and Anti Hindu Scholars used them.
Kural-18, IF no Rain, No Pujas.
Kiral 259. It is more better Not to eat Animal fat then doing 1000 of Vedic Yagna.
Kural 30 Brahmins mean One with Dharma, and who love all Living beings.
The truth is all these Kurals are Purely Vedic, first do not need any explanation.
Kural - 259, when Valluvar take a Topic, he compares it with smaller to bigger, Kural 260 says When who don't eat NV shall be Worshipped by Entire World, An Exaggarted saying to emphasis importance of Vegetarianism. Kural 259 says Keep doing Vedic Yagnas and eating NV is useless, here Vedic Yagna is not put on a lower level, but equated highly.
Kural-30 Brahmin- is referred many a times in Tholkappiyam and Sangam Literature and always as people with Dharma, and Valluvar has not changed a little. Few Eg. Pathirrupattu 4:3-6
Puram 361: 4,5
Puram-397:20,21
Puram- 93:7
Puram 26:12-13
Pura, 6:19-23
Kalithogai- 119:12,13 etc.,
Valluvar goes by Sangam Tradition. Valluavar's Definition for Brahmin is as per Vedic & Sangam Tradition.
Valluvar calls them further by Paarpaan and Aru Thozil Anthanar, all these has been analysed well by Many Indian Universities and All references of NanMarai and Anthanar are all the Noble Indian Vedas, and Pavnar's quote has been given earlier.
As for as old quotes as Aryan Migration, when we quote old authors we retain them. Dravidians migrated to India also as per many Scholars including Caldwell, and others.
The Whole world used BC/AD when Jesus Christ is Unhistorical and now they are changed to BCE-Before Common Era & CE-Common Era. September- means 7 from Sanskrit Septhami, October-8 from Oshtami; November 9 from Sans- Navami and December means 10 from Sanskrit Dasami, Two Historical Kings name July for Julies Ceaser and August for Augustus CAeser were insereted and whole world uses them wrongly, these are due to Practice.
EVR, and Justice movement are from Justice party which was from Upper Caste Non Brahmins who supported British and opposed Independence and enjoyed lot of Postings in BRITISH Rule, EVR declared Independence day as Thukka Nal, and He held this till his Death, and wrote against Tamil till end, but his followers make him as a Patriot.
These are the Pity of Life SITUATION.
Now on Tamil Alphatic Order follows Sanskrit and all the Tamil Specific Vuyir mei letters put in the end, confirming its burrowing and coexistance with Sanskrit and moreove Brahmi was mother of writing of all Languages in India.
Any Serious research with knowledge of Tamil/Prakrit/Sanskrit Vowles will clearly tell us that Brahmi was writing system developed for Sanskrit and adopted by all INdian Languages.
Sanskrit Hate campaign was a tool for Church to make people to hate Hinduism. Sankrot and Tamil has coexisted for 5000 years.
As per the Editor of Tamil Lexicon -Rig Veda has 20 Tamil words, others just SPECULATED meaninglessly to thier Blabbers by ignoring Tholkappiyam rules, P.Aruli tried but enc made a laughing stock of a=b=z. Tamil and Sanskrit both has adopted each other, Sankrit has Oldest tradions saved and Sangam Lit confirms it.
Valluvar says in Kura; 20- No Rains No water- and World will not exist.
Kural 559 says If King rules badly Rains wont be there- ie., world exsistance is doubtful.
For a COUNTRY -Any Thing WORSE THAN NO Rains.
Valluvar says- Brahmins will forget Vedas.Kural560
What is the role of a King- To be in Frontal support of BRAHMIN'S Vedic Dharma, Kural 543.
Now Kural in more than 27 Kurals refers Vedic GODS SUCH AS Indra, Vishnu, Laskhmi, Manmathan, Raahu and KEthu etc.,
Kural refers to Temple going also.
So One India- Oneness be our goal.
Love Valluvar and look for what he wrote
puththaaNdu vaazththukkaL.
¾¢Õ Íó¾Ãሠ«Å÷¸ÙìÌõ ²¨É þ¨½Â §¿Â÷¸ÙìÌõ ±ý þɢ Òò¾¡ñÎ Å¡úòÐì¸û.
Contradictions in Tirukkural
This is a very pertinent question. I would like copy paste below the relevant part from my article "Introduction to the Kural and its author" (http://www.geocities.com/nvkashraf/k.../Kural-Int.htm)
A close look at the different chapters would reveal that Valluvar composed every chapter, perhaps in response to a demand or request to produce 10 best couplets on a particular subject. He would bring together all his experience, the knowledge he has gained in mastering other texts and all the information available as folklore in order to compose 10 couplets on a subject, say on Ignorance. He would then do so for another subject, say on Virtue. Given the fact that there are similarities in ideas between couplets within and between chapters, it would appear as if the poet, while producing the best 10 on a subject, did not show any concern as to what similes and superlatives he used earlier while writing on other subjects. This may perhaps be the reason for some repetitions in ideas and 'contradictions' we find in the Kural. He would write on the evils of drinking in one chapter (Chapter 93), but at the same time eleswhere say that love is sweeter than wine (Chapter 109). To cite another instance, if you ask him "What is wealth of all wealth?", he would say two different things: "the wealth of wealth is the wealth of grace" (couplet 241) and "the wealth of wealth is the wealth of hearing" (couplet 411). Similarly, if you want to know which of the virtues should one follow dearly even at the expense of other virtues, he would say it is speaking truth in couplet 297, it is trespassing the bounds of another's wife in couplet 150 and in couplet 181 say that its the quality of not being called a slanderer! The same Valluvar who says what is natural or inborn in us cannot be ejected (Kural 376 on "Fate") would say while emphasizing the value of "Exertion" that inherent natural flaws can be overcome by getting rid of laziness (Kural 609). For a purist these may appear as contradictions but it is the style Valluvar follows while emphasizing the importance of a particular code of ethic. To know more on this, click here for the article: The unique style of Thiruvalluvar.
Re: Tirukural and Religion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppuma
Friends,
Religion of God, HINDUISM in itself is Universal and accepts all other was of Worship. All rivers leads to Sea, or to climb a mountain there are many sides.
As Valluvar clearly agrees Vedics and rejects Jainistic Style totally.
Valluvam is not a Religious book, but it supports AND Standsby Vedic Hinduism
Uppuma
:evil:
Painting such relegious colours on THIRUKKURAL is a waste of time. Let us discuss what it conveys.
:lol: Ventha Uppumava vaegaatha Uppumava :lol: :lol: :lol:
திருவ&
[size=18]திருவள்ளுவமாலை:[/size]
நமக்கு திருவள்ளுவர் பற்றியும் குறள் பற்றியும் பல விவரம் தரும் திருவள்ளுவமாலை பாடல்களை அறிந்து கொள்வோம்.
அறமுப்பத் தெட்டுப் பொருளெழுப(து) இன்பத்
திறபிர்பத் தைந்தால் தெளிய- முறைமையால்
வேத விழுப்பொருளை வெண்குறளால் வள்ளுவனார்
ஓதவழுக் கற்ற்(து) உலகு. மதுரை பெரு மருதனார்.
அறத்துப்பால்-38 அதிகாரங்கள்
பொருட்பால்- 70 அதிகாரங்கள்
இன்பத்துப்பால்- 25 அதிகாரங்கள் என 133 அதிகாரங்களால் வள்ளூவர் வேதங்களின் நற்கருத்துக்களை தன் குறளினால் தர அதனால் உலகம் குற்றங்களினில் இருந்து தப்பியது.
ஐயாறு நூறும் அதிகார மூன்றுமா
மெய்யாய வேதப் பொருள்விள்ங்கப்- பொய்யாது
தந்தான் உலகிறு தான்வள்ளூவனாகி
அந்தா மரைமேல் அயன்.
-காவிரிப்பூம்பட்டிணத்துக் காரிக்கண்ணனார்.
5 x 6 = 30 + 100 + 3 = 133
படைத்தல் தொழில் செய்யும் பிரம்மாவே வள்ளுவனாய் வந்து 133 அதிகாரங்களினால் வேதங்களின் நற்கருத்துக்களை தந்தார்.
