Its easy to say that the cassette and CD sales of X film did well, but where are you getting this info?
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Its easy to say that the cassette and CD sales of X film did well, but where are you getting this info?
vijay, I dont disagree on HJ - VV, Ghajini, TJ have all been massively disappointing but last year's Gharshana was pretty good even though it was a remake of Kakka Kakka, there were a couple of additions which were really good. I would give him a decent-sized rope for now atleast. But yeah, not much of the rope is left. And Leysa Leysa wasnt a hit movie but the music was pretty good and a success too, I believe. To a lesser extent, the same might be said of 12B and Samurai as well. But none of it is in recent times, yes.(to quote 2/3 movies where HJ had a hit but the movie failed). Again, not that I subscribe to commercial success etc. Thats on his current status.
On the quality vs cost, I did understand what you meant, and I did mention that "I probably understand what you mean,a nd probably concur, too" :-). Point is the way you made that statement, it looked like low cost implies low quality. That had to be questioned.Secondly, I still think sometimes, a common place rhythm isn't bad. Afterall, can we invent a rhythm for *each song*? Have even IR/ARR done it? Does IR have 4000 rhythms for his 4000+ songs. Does ARR have 700 rhythms for his 700+ songs?(numbers are approximate - please feel free to correct these numbers). I am sure you can quote yourself countless groups of songs from MSV/IR/ARR where they used the same rhythm as a previous song but still came up with a equally good song. So, I do think using a pre-existing rhythm, doesnt necessarily make a song bad. See the dichotomy - it does make the MD lazy and ordinary ,especially if the rhythm in question is something you havent invented, and infact, that constitutes the difference between MSV/IR/ARR and Dhina/D Iman/other-names-i-will-not-mention - but the song can still sound good. What about MFM, where they still come up with outstanding stuff(or atleast used to) without really extending the rhythm paradigm and sticking to rhythms probably even more primitive than the $100 KeyboardS? All this is from a logical perspective again and not in reference to HJ or VV.
Also, tell me whats the difference between using a $100 keyboard rhythm, and using a $1m commerically purchased loop?
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"Do you know HJ much acclaimed Vaseegara was robbed from ARR's stock ? "
It is statements like the above(not made by vijay for those who didnt read earlier posts) one reek of ARR-Devotion, nee fanaticism - I am sure someone like Rahman who makes sure he gets proper credit/moolah for every single effort of his,wouldnt have let it go just like that if this had happened.
vijay, statements like this here is probably where jaiganes has problems - and I hope we can understand that without taking stands and then ridiculing each other. Such a statement has absolutely no basis/facts to stand upon and is as ridiculous as IR fanatics' hate-mail on ARR during the early years of this forum. I'd expect a Maddy to subscribe to such statements but not vijay - not that you endorsed it but I guess in the recent years, if a similar statement erupted from IR fans, you have a reputation of tearing the concerned person down so not doing it for ARR fans definitely gives thoughts if you see what I mean - not that you need to appear impartial or unbiased , I dont think anyone even needs to be unbiased or impartial - but I am just explaining where the stands and perceptions here seem to come from as I see it.
rajdes, i strongly object to both observations made on ARR and me........at a point of time in 90's in HFM , there were 7 versions of Muqabla and u know wat was ARR's reaction to it??? he said he has complained to some music forum headed by some Rashid......so ur statement that ARR makes sure he gets money for everything he does is totally unjustified......now dont rebut saying, "no Maddy u got it wrong,this and that".....i'm not a small kid as u think and i'm not a fool.......if u want i'll give u my credentials which are no way a loosu payyan's........Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdes
"I'd expect a Maddy to subscribe to such statements but not vijay" - really hurt me........just out of respect for you, i'm controlling myself......
Vijay, i'm really sorry.......my proclaimation that u r a neutral guy has evoked so much of reaction and ppl. have started reviewing u.......i really apologise for all those statements made abt u bcos of my mistake.....
rajdes, ARR's WOHE tracks were ripped in Hindi, Tamil, Telugu Godknows.... in several Songs, BGMS, Teasers and even TV serials :banghead: Released by Sony? What did Rahman or Sony get? :roll: ARR's kitterndhu suttadha list pota it would run into volumes. venda vitrungha! And that Vaseegara's robbery is confirmed by a HCIR fan here tho there were authenticated <rumours> sources pointing it out b4. We never took it serious b4 and not even now. ARR-fans have watched HJ closely better than any ordinary listeners.
Now tell me in what way ARR/MR prodn gets compensated for HJ's atrocious lift in Sainikodu (Telugu)?
Maddy, tracked both of them here :lol: :rotfl: What's with Indian Copyright Laws?
rajdes, I have acknowledged the success HJ had in his earlier years. Iam not sure how big of a hit 12B or Leysa Leysa were but personally I liked a couple of songs in each. But Rahman has had a long history of such albums that werent done justice by the films for jokers like Kadhir and so on. And that trend has continued in even recent times, even when the overall sales seems to be down due to various factors in the audio industry. Whereas HJ has started depending more on the outcome of the movie to bail him out.
On using same rhythm or a pre-existing rhythm , it might or might not make a song "bad", which is subjective. But if someone comes and praises those songs and specifically says that the rhythm was good in them, then I'll disagree. (I have done the same with IR songs too earlier when I found the rhythm usage repetitive)
Thats what happened when jaiganes specifically mentioned the rhythm as one of the highlights of that HJ song,when it clearly wasnt for me. Rhythm was just one of the many lowlights of that song for me. He could have just said that he liked the song overall but he specifically pointed out the rthym aspect, which IMO, was trite.
"Also, tell me whats the difference between using a $100 keyboard rhythm, and using a $1m commerically purchased loop? "
Iam not sure why you are even asking me this question, if you understood my earlier posts. I said HJ used something which comes as a demo piece/add-on along with a cheap keyboard. In the sense,he used something that was quite trite or commonplace.
But to answer your question,If he had used a $1m loop,even though he wont get points for originality,at the least he would have tried to use something that was out of the ordinary or different for the song,even if he couldnt think of it himself.
Also, it does take atleast some knowledge on his part to use those sophisticated loops effectively. But here he committed a double crime-not only he used something that is already available,but he also used something that is primitive and has been used several hundred times before.
Its not that using a $100 keyboard sound is a crime per se(and thats also not what I meant earlier),but if you can use that and still come up with an imaginative piece then more power to you.
"vijay, statements like this here is probably where jaiganes has problems - and I hope we can understand that without taking stands and then ridiculing each other."
I didnt read most of that. Jaiganes had a bigger problem with my comments on the song and thats what I responded to. I dont necessarily read every post. Beyond a certain point you know which posts to choose and respond to.
"not that you endorsed it but I guess in the recent years, if a similar statement erupted from IR fans, you have a reputation of tearing the concerned person down so not doing it for ARR fans definitely gives thoughts if you see what I mean - not that you need to appear impartial or unbiased , I dont think anyone even needs to be unbiased or impartial - but I am just explaining where the stands and perceptions here seem to come from as I see it."
Come on rajdes, I dont give a damn to someone else's perceptions/opinions of whether Iam a "Neutral" or a "biased" fan. Have better things to do in life. Also, as far as I know I dont have any reputation of going after IR fans and tearing them down too, neeyave yedhaavadhu keLappi vidaadha :-) Maybe a few IR fans(including you) think that way since you have been around those threads a lot. There were a few arguments I had with them on a couple of topics I felt strongly about sometime back, thats all. You make it sound like as if I read every post of rajasaranam or other HCIRFs and go after them all the time. Not the case. It depends on which topic I feel strongly about and worthy enough to debate. Not on the MD. This HJ discussion should be proof enough. I have had similiar comments regarding YSR's music too sometime back and it was the turn of some YSR fans then to assume that I was specifically targetting them and was part of the "ARR camp". These are all silly assumptions about which I dont give a damn.
Maddy ,I dont think you need to be sorry for anything.Just relax and chill out. I dont take most of these "reviews" on my neutrality or bias seriously.They are amusing to read most of the time and a good time-pass to argue about.
Please highlight the personal abuse texts and send me a PM, I will edit them as per your command!!Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
:confused2: seems that no one has subscribed to my views :ashamed: :oops: relax guys!!! :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by thamizhvaanan
vijay, glad we are getting a clearer picture of where we stand. Comparing HJ and ARR is like comparing a dhoddabedda to Everest. At the same time, dhoddabedda has its own charms, and it need not have each and every charm of Everest to be enjoyed standalone. I am not a HJ fan, and my hard drive has what, like, 10-12 songs of his. I didnt even think Vaseegara was a good song, forget great.Like Bombay Jayashree mentioned somewhere, it is just an average but pleasant tune. I dont have to stand up for him but where I see a problem is you are criticising HJ at a different level compared to ARR fanatics, who probably want to imply that HJ is a parangimalai to ARR's everest, yet you are being used as a shield by those very fanatics. No frets, I know you dont care about any perception, and I stated as much in my previous post "not that you need to appear unbiased etc". It was merely an analysis of the existing situation.
Maddy, happy to know that you respect me. I generally refrain from drawing individuals into the discussion and am sorry that I had to make an exception here - I still havent seen any remote evidence that HJ lifted Vaseegara from ARR's stock. Muqabla issue is different - that song everyone knows is ARR's and when bollywood lifted it, even I could point out that "look, they have lifted muqabla" :-)
If you like to believe that Vaseegara is lifted on the basis of hearsay, I am sorry I'd have to label you along with the rest of the ARR fanatics. To give you credit, as I have mentioned before, I dont see you as a grade A fanatic but I do think if you refrain from those "revenge" acts( I am sure you know what I mean) of belittling IR/HJ/YSR/Bharadwaj/Whoever just because their fans bad-mouthed ARR at some point in the past, I'd have more respect for you.
In any case, dont fret. All that has happened here is rajdes believes that Maddy is capable of ARR fanaticism, if you read my statement closely. Are you unhappy about that? I bet not :-).
vijay, now we'll continue the discussion on the rhythm issue. I am glad that we agree on the rhythm making the song good or bad being subjective. The problem with taking exception to a common rhythm is that it presupposes knowledge of the said rhythm. I may not be a music expert but may have an ear for music and thus like a song along with its rhythm. That it was a done-to-death rhythm is lost on me, perhaps. In that case, subjectively atleast, the rhythm was good for the song. In this particular case, that might be what happened with Jaiganes. I really dont know if a $100-kb-rhythm is necessarily *tacky* without exception. I'll take your word for that - I think even you said that it need not always be tacky. Even conceding it was, I still think the rhythm was subjectively good for Jaiganes(and as you can see, most of TN laymen). I'd respect that.I have problems only if the rhythm is taking away from the song; if it totally screws up the listening experience of that song,that is. Hope you see what I mean
On loops vs rhythm, I'd have to disagree. It's not that I dont see your point. Using loops might be a higher skill than using KB rhythms but to me, I somehow cannot grade the 'crime' level and give different grades to these acts - let's leave it at that :-)
As I said, a serviceable rhythm might be okay if the song appeals in other respects to the user. And I may even call it good if it harmonizes with and does not detract from the listening experience of the song, even if it is trite. Thats just me.I can see that your deep knowledge of music doesnt allow you to do that :-)
Jaiganes, dont take this "neutral" label seriously. It doesnt mean a thing as vijay himself acknowledged. We are all biased in one way or the other. When someone says you are objective, he probably means that for that moment you supported his idol :-). Like they said "Diplomacy is not only the art of dividing the cake equally but also ensuring that each participant goes back thinking he got the biggest chunk". Chew on that :-)