// hey his politics shames that of Amma/MK.//
Why refer to Amma/MK?
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// hey his politics shames that of Amma/MK.//
Why refer to Amma/MK?
Rama is the one who is Eka patni vrathan; who cries when the spouse was abducted; who was loving and caring for SitA.
Rama never ever wished to kill the enemies. From the very first thaatakai, he hesitated to kill her as she was a woman; He let Maareecha go away; while he killed subaahu; He even wished to forgive Ravana and gave ample chances for him to surrender.
kaRpaar raamapiraanai allaal maRRum kaRparO?- asks NammAzhwAr.. why would anyone learn anything but Rama?
This also echoes AndAL’s calling Rama as mantthukkuinyaan.
Sri Kodai Nachiar pays a rare tribute to Sri Rama in Sri Tiruppavai- She calls Him ‘Manatthukku iniyAn’, a sobriquet She doesn’t use with regard to any other avatArA, though several have been alluded to in Tiruppavai.
it must have been a question of Honesty. An honest person endears himself to us much more than one who is not.
When we think of Sri Rama, what comes to our mind immediately is the upright figure, who would rather give His life, than speak untruth.
‘RamO dvir nAbhi bhAshatE’ says Sri Valmiki, confirming the Prince’s penchant for adhering to His word, irrespective of the travails they may land Him in. Further, as He himself confirms, ‘anritam na uktapoorvam mE na cha vakshyE kadAchana’(I have never told an untruth in the past, nor shall I ever do so).
Can anyone tell me where I get, "Seetha Rama patabhishegha sthothiram"...(in tamil)
Web address?
Regards
rsankar.
Ah! Beautiful ... Splendid presentation... Hats off to my dear Friend Mr viggop. My comments on your remarks...Quote:
Originally Posted by viggop
"Manaththukkiniyaan"
Andal Kodhai, attributes so... not out of her own... but as the TAMIL-WORD...TRANSLATION coined for the word Rama.
"Karpaar Ramapiraanai allaal matrum karparoa? -THIRUVAAYMOZHI"
These words of Nammaalwaar mean... the Greatness of Rama as an Ideal-man... exhibiting the basic strengths and weaknesses innate for the Mankind, like Enrage, Grief, Desire etc....
...and under the grip of such emotions how any man is prone to react...
... and what will be the outcome of the Positive and Negative spirits in the course of Human-life...
...far different and unique, discernible from all other Creatures ... inferior to Man.
Rather Rama is the only Awathara, where He has shown to the posterity, both the sides of Life... as an Exemplary and Emulative Model-man... even by self-indictment of UNDUE sufferings...
... just to establish the Greatness as well as the Topmost principles one shoud adhere to in Life...
...which are... RIGHTEOUSNESS, VICTORY for TRUTH, and JUSTICE to all, even to the Oppressed or Dominated VICTIM..by any means of exploitation from the Wickeds.
Hence Rama is named as SATHYA-VRATHA, SATHYA-NARAYANA, SATHYA-KAAMA, SATHYA-SANKALPA....
To sum up... the Lesson meant here... is.. SATHYAM AEVA JAYATHAE.
To mean... JUSTICE BY TRUTH ONLY WINS
..Mankind should sincerely adhere to RIGHTEOUSNESS ONLY....
In extreme cases God will personally interfere to set right
Dear Sudhaama Sir
As usual, i just copied and pasted that snippet here and it was not my own writing. :-)
Thanks for your explanation on it
Dear Raghu,
Yes. Ravana had many noble qualities. As a king he ruled well over his subjects. His musical talent (at par with Naradha) could have only stemmed out of a well cultivated mind. Even when he brought Sita to his town he did maintain his distance- forget the curse. He listened to Vibhishana's advice that envoys should not be killed- and let Hanuman go free. He let Vibhishana to cross over to Rama's side. In the battlefield he did not surrender.
But he dedired many women who did not rightly belong to him. Also He treated the Devas harshly disgracing them to perform menial tasks. He encouraged his raksashas to disturb the yagams(rituals) performed by the rishis.
So he had a long and victorious life till his merits and boons protected him. At the end he had to be punished for his evil doings.
Please give your comments on this. I also ask any other interested person to join in and continue this topic further.
Regards,
Siva
***Even when he brought Sita to his town he did maintain his distance*** ????
What about the undoing of her saree and Hanumanji got there just on time?
Dear Siva,Quote:
Originally Posted by siva
I fully agree with your points about Ravana, but many here have failed to address he was big Maheshwar Bhaktha, to be continued...
Dear Raghu
I think i have mentioned this before.He was not a great bhaktha of Shiva.He abused the trinity many times due to his arrogance.He sang devotional songs on Shiva only after his arrogance was crushed by shiva's toe.Before that, he asked "Who is Shankara?" to Nandi when Nandi asked him to take another route.
Even after this, after getting boons from Shiva , he abused Shiva,Vishnu,Brahma many times.Only before the last battle in which he died , he again performed the Shiva pooja.but of course, Kamban writes that the arrows Of Rama wiped out all the boons in one stroke. :-)
Dear Viggop,
I have heard some where Ravan played the veena to please Maheshwar, as he made Ishwar angry for some reason.
I think the moral values behind this is that, no matter how ever much u devotee towards Isa(IShwar) as u posses bad qualities within you and u indulge ur self in Maya , ur atma will never attain Moksha or be a noble atma (punitha atma) am I right?
The beauty of the Thai Ramakien (Ramayana)
____________________________
Written some 2,000 years ago and accredited to the Indian poet Valmiki, the Ramayana opens with the founding of the rival cities of Ayutthaya, capital of the gods, and Langka, city of the demons. The long and convoluted tale revolves around the struggle between these two antagonistic forces, the principal action focusing on the trials and tribulations of Ayutthaya's Prince Rama, the abduction of his wife, Sita, and the eventual defeat of Langka by Hanuman and his army of monkey warriors.
This is the Ramakian, the epic tale providing story lines for dance, drama, puppet plays and shadow theater. The influence of the Ramakian is so pervasive that nothing could appear more Thai. Ironically, it is not strictly a home-grown product, but rather the local version of the Indian Ramayana epic, and its roll call of gods and demons belongs essentially to the Hindu world of the subcontinent rather than to the Theravada Buddhist land of the Thais. Most cultures of Southeast Asia are rooted in Indian influences which filtered through the region from around the second century AD onwards.
Religious, mythological, linguistic and other elements of Indian culture were absorbed, and thus became especially persuasive. Various local populations adapted and moulded Indian influences to their own ways, gradually evolving cultures that were distinct yet with common roots. Most influential of all was the Ramayana which, along with the Mahabharata, ranks as India's greatest literary work.
Like all the best stories, the Ramayana combines adventure and excitement plus a touch of comic relief with moral edification, and full play is given to strange occurrences in which magic, divination, horoscopes and other mysteries are important elements. In one form or another the epic was incorporated in the cultures of most Southeast Asian civilisations, and was firmly established before the rise of the Thai kingdom. But while the Ramayana's influence stretches way back, the Thai version is a distinctly local creation, as exemplified by the text of King Rama I, written in 1807. It is not known how far King Rama I relied on the vernacular versions of the story which had been passed down through the centuries, nor to what extent he consulted Indian sources, yet it is important to note that he did not merely translate the Ramayana.
The narrative follows the Indian story only in its broad outlines, and there are considerable differences in detail. Names are modified, and dress, customs, ways of life and even the flora assume local distinction. A classic though it is, the Ramakian, unlike western literary landmarks, has impact not through the pages of a handsomely bound book but via myriad art forms. The text is incomparably rich and lends itself naturally to illustration and to theatre in all its forms.
Wat Po (Temple of the Reclining Buddha), Bangkok's oldest and largest temple complex, presents an easily accessible manifestation of the Ramakian's visual impact. On the outer wall of the main chapel is a series of marble bas relief's depicting a selection of connected scenes from the epic tale in a set of 152 panels. The relief's portray the abduction and subsequent rescue of Sita and, for some strange reason, conclude not with the stirring climax of the victory over Langka, but with the death of a minor character before the recovery of Sita. Perhaps the artists simply ran out of space-but then the audience would have been familiar with the tale since childhood. And such is the artistic skill that each panel can be regarded as an individual work of art.
The doors of the main chapel of Wat Po also illustrate the power of the Ramakian in an unusual medium: the exquisite mother-of-pearl inlay work-in which cut pieces are glued onto a paper cartoon and then applied to a permanent and subsequently lacquered surface-which has a long tradition in Thailand and reached its zenith in the mid-19th century. The influence of the Ramakian on temple murals can be seen at nearby Wat Phra Keo (Temple of the Emerald Buddha), in the grounds of the Grand Palace. The tradition of covering interior temple walls with murals dates almost from the birth of Thai ci
http://www.usmta.com/MYTHS%20&%20LEGENDS.htm
http://www.jfbkk.or.th/images/Ramakien_01.jpg
http://www1.thaimain.org/share_image/intro/012.jpg
http://www1.thaimain.org/share_image/intro/013.jpg
Ravana had a curse that if he try to attain a women withour her wish, he would have his head burst in to pieces....Only that prevented him from trying any adventure.Quote:
Originally Posted by goodsense
yes that is true, by thw way Srivatsan who is that in ur Avatar?Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsan
That is Lord Vishnu as Garudaarooda!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
Lets us continue discuss on this great Epic:
Devotee of Lord Shiva
Following his conquest of Lanka, Ravana encounters Lord Shiva at his abode in Kailash. Unknowingly, Ravana attempts to uproot and move the mountain on a whim. Shiva, annoyed by Ravana's pride and arrogance, merely presses his little toe on Kailash, pins him firmly (and painfully) under the same. His ganas inform Ravana of whom he has crossed, upon which Ravana becomes penitent. He composes and sings songs praising Shiva, and is said to have done so for several years, till Shiva releases him from his bondage. Pleased with his bravery and devotion, Shiva grants him further strength, culminating in his gifting him the Chandrahas (Moon-blade), an immensely powerful sword. Ravana in turn became a lifelong devotee of Lord Shiva. Ravana is known for his dance worship Shiva Tandava Stotra (a form of Stuti) to lord Shiva.Ravana was a great scholar
Ravan had many GOOD qualities, wghich were over shadowed by evil, lets pls discuss such qualities...
Raghu,
This is a good thread. Well I have been having a doubt on this for a long time.
We all know that through the Epic Ramayan that Lord Shri Rama killed Vaali, Sugriva's brother without Vaali's knowledge. Don't you all think that this act of Lord Shri Rama is a coveted one? How can we justify this act of Lord Shri Rama?
:yawn: This has been discussed and done to death. Valmiki raises this question through Vaali's mouth itself. And Vaali who is the affected party is convinced of Rama's reply and agrees that Rama's act is indeed justified. So why should others bother about whether the act is justified or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by leosimha
And since the act is Rama's why should we bother about justifying it? :roll:
All this questioning, I am afraid, is merely trying to mask a disputatious intention!
Go back and read the pages of this thread. The so-called justification is bound to be given somewhere. If you dont find it or still have doubts let me know and I will tell you the conversation between Vali and Rama.
Again, when the affected party was convinced, how does it matter to you?
:shaking: friend badri...hmm...It doesn't matter me if Lord Shri Rama has killed Vaali through coveted means which is not at all a means of WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
I was just trying to know if this is best means or not. Lord Shri Rama is known for his truthfulness, honesty, bravery and this act of his not at all justified.
By the way I will go through the conversation if I find it out...
In my opinion,
All human beings, whether accepted as incarnations of god, or not, HAVE FOLLIES inherent in them.
I cannot agree any JUSTIFICATION or branching stories to relate to any such action.
Instead of concentrating on
'WHY DID HE DO IT' it would be wiser to study their virtues and be done with it.
period.
One quality which IS I ADMIRE, rather, praise ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
is he abstaining from touching any woman, WITHOUT HER WISH!
:clap: :clap:
The Ramayana says that is because he was afraid of a curse and not out of any respect for womanhood or control over his lust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha
He kidnapped a woman, imprisoned her forcibly and caused her endless sorrow and torture through his words. And you admire and praise him because he didnt touch her out of fear? Do you think he who perpretated so much atrocity against a woman would have not touched her if the curse hadnt been active?
What a thing to admire in a man when his very downfall was because of that!!
SP I am really surprised! :roll:
Sorry! I did not know it was out of fear badri :oops:
sheesh, I am not really qualified to talk on epics :D
Badri,can you elaborate the curse please? I am hearing it for the first time and would like to know more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
Dsath,
No, badri is right, there was a curse casted upon Ravan, that if he touches any women, he would be burt or something....
Besides, In Ramayan, as far as I know, It is told that Ravan was a womaniser, but then again, if he was not he would not have kidnapped sita, he went to the forest to kill the person(Lakshaman) who cut of Soorpanahai's nose, but Ravan fell for the beauty of Sita and fell for her, hence he kidnapped her...
Raghu, i am not disagreeing with Badri. I am just interested in knowing the story behind the curse. How and why he got the curse? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
Since this is a predominantly Tamil forum, why do people not look at how Kambar interprets the significance of the killing of Valin? Unlike Valmiki, who tries to address the problems arising out of Ramapiran's act in moral terms, Kambar very expressly and clearly addresses them in religious terms. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
Kribanandha Vaariyar has an interesting take on Vaali's killing: "Can we expect the police to follow the speed limit when they are trying to catch a criminal driving above the speed limit?"
I am extremely bad with memory.
Now that I try to recollect,
if I remember right,
he had lured a woman (forgot her name) saint, in his previous birth.
He tried forcing her despite her warnings.
She burnt herself alive and cursed ravana that, if he touches any woman, without her approval, he would burn to ashes.
If I remember right, THE SAME SAINT (woman) is born as seetha .
Madam SP,
I think the saint woman which you are talking about is Vedavathi and when Ravana abducted "Sita", it is believed that it is not "Sita" who was abducted and it was Vedavathi.
Can somebody clarify if I am correct and elaborate it?
In one telugu movie, they show Ravana also participating in that test of lifting the bow and commissioning it ( I mean , the event when Ram enters Mithila and breaks the bow and also marries Sita ).
ofcouse, Ravana fails to put the naan into the bow and loses the challenge .
How far is it true ? Did Ravana see Sita earlier in that case ?
Unfortunately, we see too many such things in movies and very difficult to conclude which version is authenticated.
Was there any exchange of thoughts on whose role was more sincere / dharmic.
I mean KUMBAKARNA or VIBISHANA .
The former stood by his brother and died for him
The latter was thrown out by his brother and went straight to Ram and took shelter. Also was instrumental in telling Ram , the finer aspect of how to eliminate Ravan.
Lets discuss who was more sincere.
I take the side of VIBEESHANA.
He tried to persuade, on his failure to persuade his bro, he went on to take the side of RIGHTEOUSNESS.
A quality NOT MANY CAN POSSESS :clap:
Sir leosimha,
Yes, I think its vEdavathi :?
Like I said, I am quite forgetful :(
R u talking about ShivaThanushu???Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
Yes Raghu sir.
The dhanusu which Sri Ram will lift it and while trying to tie the knot, it will break.
Any idea if Ravan was present there ? We cant trust telugu movies. At times, they do their value add. I have seen some horrible movies like Rama -Hanuman yudham !
No, Never heard of it, as far as i know Sita's Father ONLY invited kings from India not Lanka...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
Again, a good question? Some say yes and some say no. Some say that even though Ravana was not invited, he came to the Kingdom of Janaka as he had heard a lot about Sita's beauty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
I wish to thank Raghu for starting this wonderful thread and ALL the others (Mr Sudhaama, Mr Hari Krishnan, Mr Badri and Mr Viggop) for sharing so many valuable information on Lord Shri Ram.
Being in a foreign country since my childhood, I have only had a few occasions to be exposed to such interesting discussions! I used to think and wish to be in India so that I could have my questions about Ramayanam, Mahabaratha and Hinduism answered.
Having gone through the 30 pages of this thread... it is almost as if most of my questions on Ramayanam have been answered!
So again thank you all!!!
Vasanth.
PS: Is there any good translation of Ramayanam in english available on the net?
Hello,
Unfortunatly most of the links (from chennailonline.com) provided by Mr Harikrishnan are not working anymore...
Does anybody know where else I can find his articles? Character studies, details on some specific episodes of the Ramayana, etc.
Thanks in advance,
Vasanth.
Dear vasanthQuote:
Originally Posted by Vaz
No problem, if you are in UK, u can buy these books at the ISKON centres in London, it is near Oxford circus station, would you like further info:)
Have you visited my other threads called Mahabharth and 63 Gnayanmarghal Maheshwar Bakthas??