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Mmm...possibly why they name all their kings as Rama the Something!! Wonder if they take Rama the I, as Sri Rama himself??Quote:
Originally Posted by viggop
In Malay literature too, we have the Hikayat Ramayana which is acknowledged under their pre-Islamic literature. The Malays of the state of Kelantan, are renowned for their shadow play called Wayang Kulit, in which they enact the entire Ramayana as drama.
No. Rama I was the founder of the present "Chakri" dynasty, King Buddhayodfa. He founded the dynasty in 1782 - basically, he was a victorious general who liberated Thailand from Burmese rule and then deposed the previous Thai king who had become a bit of a religious fanatic. The present king, HRH Bhumibol Adulyadej, is King Rama IX. I think the practice of taking the title "Rama" only started with King Rama VI, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by nirosha sen
another copy,edit and paste.
Vishnu Puranam gives 9 lakshaNas of a bhakta.
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(1) shravaNam: What is heard is shravaNam. A man gets the power to hear when he enters this world. That is the power he generally retains at the fag end of his life. That is why ‘karNa mantram’ is recited as the last one that a man hears. Tiruvalluvar points out the importance of hearing as ‘sEvattuL sElvam sEviccElvam’.
(2)kIrtanam: Next comes the reciting of the name. It is mentioned in divyaprabandham "tAncollal tan tannaikkIrtiTTa mAyan". It is said "JihvE kIrtaya kEshavam".
(3) smaraNam: smaraNam means thinking about the Lord.In divya prabandham it is pointed out as "manakkaDaluL vAzhavalla mAya manALa nambi".
(4) pada sEvanam:
(5) arccanai: tuLasi arccanai is generally preferable for Lord Krishna
(6) vandanam
(7)dAsyam
(8)sakhyam: Nammalvar says "annayAi attanAi yEnnai AnDiDum Ennappan Enakka igulAi".
(9) AtmanivEdanam
shall we discuss all the dharma & adharma performed by Lord rama
Dharma
1) Always Obedient to his elders
2) Always respected every one even 'Ravan'
Adharma
1) Killing Vali by shooting an arrow from behind
any others, this will be healthy discussion, I suppose!
Sudhaama sir has written a detailed post on why Vaali had to be killed that way before in this topic,i think
All epics were written and some additions made as sub-stories to propogate some ideology of the core of the subject.
There lies the story shall be taken for granted or not.
While discussing about Ramayana this core subject should be talked.
Unfortunately that is not done. Vague Kindness.brotherhood,pitiness and some of the natural behavious of human beings are only discussed.
Rather the core subject should be elaborated first.
These are called hindu epics. Then what does hindu mean ? Is that word available in these epics ?
What is the core ideology of all forms of hinduism ? Can we identify in these epics ?
Then the topic will be meaningful.
f.s.gandhi
Got this from another website
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There are some interesting twists in kamba Ramayana.One is kambar's treatment of bharatha.
Rama is about to leave to forest.He tells his mother kousalya that bharatha will rule the kingdom and Rama will leave to forest.What does kousalya say about bharatha?
"Muraimai endru ondru undu.Mummayin nirai gunathavan,Ninninum nallanal,kuraivu ilan...."
Meaning "Except the dharma that says 'elder should rule' there is nothing wrong in Bharatha becoming king.He is actually THREE TIMES BETTER THAN YOU(rama).He has no defeciencies...."
See the words that come out from the mouth of kousalya.She calls bharatha as '3 times better than Rama'.
kamban then magnifies bharatha even more.When Bharatha comes back and learns that Rama is in forest he becomes angry.He shouts at his mother kaikeyi and leaves to forest to call back Rama.There he meets guhan.Guha is doubtful that Bharatha has come to kill rama.But when he knows why Bharatha has come to forest he is dumbfounded.He hugs bharatha and with tears says "Ayiram Ramar Nin kel avaro,theriyim amma"
This means Guha says "Will thousand rama's equal you...I doubt it.."
Here Bharatha is elevated to be more than the glory of thousand Rama's.Rama is nothing but lord vishnu.But kambar elevates his devotee bharatha to 1000 times more than rama...
But kamban elevates bharatha even high.When Rama doesnt return after 14 years bharatha is about to jump in fire.Kousalya comes to prevent him.In tears kousalya says to bharatha "En il kodi Ramargal eninum annal nin arulukku arugu aveero?"
Meaning "Can even thousand crore Rama's can come close to your greatness?"
See the promotion kamban gives to Bharatha.First he is said to be more than 3 Rama's.Then he is equated to 1000 rama's.Then finally he is said to be higher than thousands of crores of Rama's.
Who is the hero?Rama or bharatha?Who is great God or his devotee?
Note to all Participants of this thread:
This thread has been brought up again after intensive clean-up of all digressions on a trial basis. Kindly stick to the topic of discussing the story aspects of the epic. Do not unnecessarily deviate into the religous merits and demerits. No personal attacks on any hubber either. Violations will result in locking this thread.
Dear Badri
Thanks a lot for restoring this thread.This thread discussed various aspects of Hindu religion like dharma and it'll be good for everyone to read and learn and follow dharma.
Please do take strict action against people who misuse forumhub and indulge in unwarranted attacks.
another copy and paste
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VALI VATHAI PADALAM:
See how Kamban treats the same incident.Vali is on floor.Blood is oozing from his body.He ses the arrow that hit him.What did he see in that arrow?
"mummai sal ulagukku ellam moola manthirathai,
mutrum thamaye thamakku nalgum thani perum pathathai,
thane immai ezumai noikkum marundhinai,
"Raman" enum semmai ser namam thannai kannil theriya kandan"
Meaning "Vali saw The base manthra of the world,the manthra that gives you to yourself,the manthra that is the medicine for all diseases in this birth and next 7 births-"Raman" inscribed in that arrow"
what a language game..what a devotion...
Then vali starts his abuse.How does vali start his abuse?
"Vaimayum marabum kathu man uyir thurandha vallal thooyavan maindhane
Nee bharathan mun thondrinaye,
Thaimayum andri natpum dharmamum thazuvi nindrai..."
"The son of the king dasaratha ...(who died for upholding dharma and tradition).
The one who is the elder brother of bharatha,
You uphold motherly love,dharma and friendship......"
(See how the 'abuse' starts.Rama is called as the upholder of motherly love,dharma and friendship.....)
Vali continues...
"Kulam ithu, kalvi ithu,kotram ithu,utru nindra nalam ithu,
puvanam moondrin nayagam unathu andro....
valam ithu,ivvulagam thangum vanmai ithu endral
thinmai alarmara cheyyalamo,arindhun ariyathavan pol...
Meaning 'You know what is kula dharma.You know what is governance.You know what is good and bad.You are the lord of three worlds.
If this is the valor that protects the world then you pretend to be the one who dont know anything,but you actually know everything.
"Ko iyal dharumam ungal kulathu uthithorkatku ellam
ovaiyathu elutha vanna uruvathoyi-udamai andro?
Aviyai,sanagan petra annathai,Amizthin vandha deviyai,
pirintha pinnai thigaithanai polum seigai?"
"Oh the one whose beauty cannot be even painted by anybody
Dharma belongs to whoever has born in your dynasty.
Did you do this because you were shocked after you lost
Your life(seetha),the swan like daughter of king janak,who came as amritha in your life?"
(vali lays down in ground.But he admires Rama's beauty here and calls him "Oviyathu elutha vanna uruvathoyi.."(one whose beauty cannot even be painted)
----------Then Rama and vali debate.Laxmana interferes and see how vali praises laxmana-----
"Thai ena uyirkku nalgi,dharmamum,thagavum,salbum,
Nee ena nindra nambi,..."
Meaning "The one who stood as mother to all living beings.You stood as dharma,good and benefit itself"
Finally vali dies after cazlling Rama as "Evu koor valiyal eithu,nai adiyanen
avi pom velaivai arivu thandhu arulinai,
moovar nee,muthalvan nee,mutrum nee,matrum nee,
paavam nee,dharmam nee,pagayum nee,uravumk nee..."
Meaning "You shot me and gave knolwedge to this dog(vali).You are the 3 gods,you are the primary one,you stand as sin and dharma,you stand as enemy and friend,you stand as everything.."
Never does an abuse flow from the mouth of vali.The worst he asks is "Is this dharma?Why did you do this?I might have done mistakes.Why did you not forgive me?You are powerful enough to win over a cyclone.Why did you attack me who is as powerless as a rabbit?..."
Kambar beautifully narrates their meeting as follows
"kannodu kan inai kavvi,ondrai ondru unnavum,
nilaiperathu unarvum ondrida annalum nokkinan avalum nokkinal"
meaning "Their eyes met,held and ate one another.Their heart mixed with one another.He saw her,she also saw him"
I probably am not translating the beauty of the kamban's verse "annalum nokkinan avalum nokkinal" when I say "He saw,she also saw".This is the most famous verse of kamban.
What happened next?
"Nokkia nokku enum nuthikol vel inai,
akkiya mathukaiyyan thozil azndhana
veekiya kanai kazal veeran senganum
thakku anagu anayaval danathil thaithanave"
"karungadal palliyil kalavi neengipoi
pirindavar koodinal pesavum vendumo?"
"Seetha's look was like a spear.It went and hit Rama's shoulders.rama's look went and hit seetha's heart.These lovers earlier got seperated in vaikunta and met now.When seperated lovers meet,is it necessary that they talk to each other( to convey their love?No.Words are not necessary")
This "pirindavar koodinal pesavum vendumo" is yet another famous dialogue of kamban.