Tamil's elderliness to world languages

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As per archeolgoy, Tamil writing came from North India to us

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North Indian writing came from Tamil. There was a time when Sanskrit (preceding Prakrit included) used Aramaic writing. Read John Keay's INDIAN HISTORY. There are also other historians saying it. There is no archeology saying that Tamil writing came from North India.

Other stuff in the post are badly mixed up.

Tamil writing: Please write in the thread "How did the Tamil written characters evolve?" instead of lumping up everything here.

//It should be remembered that Ila is derived from Sihala//


Sinhala is a mixed language, It contains Tamil, Telugu Prakrit and few other elements including those from South East Asia. As to contribution of Tamil to Sinhala, go and read books by the Sinhala writer and researcher: Lionel Sarath.

Read also some posts from the thread: Is Tamil derived from Sanskrit in the Tamil Literature Section. The word Sinhala itself has been said to have derived from Tamil roots.


¾õ + (þú) = ¾Á¢ú.

(þú ) + «õ = ®Æõ. ( vowel in the first word elongated, as in ÍÎ + «ý = ݼý. )

Neelakanda Shastri said "X". But M Seenivasa Iyengar said "Y". So should we believe X or Y?

M S Iyengar thinks that þú is from =þØõ, the sweet juice from the palm tree.

Indrabala said Kathirgamam is from Kathirigaama and gama means village, from Prakrit or its offspring Sanskrit: graama.

But it has been pointed out by other researchers that the word graamam is kamam ( not kaamam, and please do not mistake ) ¸Áõ in Tamil which means village.

Anyway these are not directly relevant to this topic!! I read their books some time back.

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Originally Posted by bis_mala

Sinhala is a mixed language, It contains Tamil, Telugu Prakrit and few other elements including those from South East Asia. As to contribution of Tamil to Sinhala, go and read books by the Sinhala writer and researcher: Lionel Sarath.

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I've had Sinhalese friends in Sing......when they spoke it it sounded a lot like Malyalam! :D

Dear Friends, :)

It was very much pleasure to celebrate Pongal, tamil’s harvest festival, in home, with relatives, fortunately my annual vacation also falls on it, in ‘SURAVAM’ month (Thai) which is to be and was the new year of ancient tamils. Valluvar says, “Sulantrum Ear Pinnathu Ulagam” which means all forms of businesses of world are based on agriculture and this is being proved by the utterances of WTO recently.

By the by, As usual, Mr. Uppuma quoted / followed the author of selective quoting :!: Opposite views are welcome but not confusionistic fashion.

Not only Mr.K.A.Sastri :!: P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar also had the same view about sankams :!: But it must be borne in mind that both of them have shown strong evidances in their books in support of origin of world primitive civilizations of tamils and one of such quoting from Sastri have been already given by me in the beginning of this thread.

Unfortunately both of them did not have the chance of knowing full research results of sankam anthology during their time and that process was going on.

Let us see the evidances of sankam’s presence in tamil literature.

1. “ Nanpattup pulavanai SANKAMERI
Narkanakak Kizhi, tharumik karulin kaan” – Thevaram

2. “SANKAP Pulavar Mun” – Periya puranam.
3. “SANKATH thamil Moontrum Thaa” – Avvaiyar.

We can leave the above because these were written after 400 CE which were taken as references by Sastri & Iyengar.

But the following were written earlier which have the truth about sankams as ‘KOODALS’ during BCE.

4. “Uyarmathil KOODALIN Aintha OnThamil” – Thiruvasakam (300 CE)

5.The battle of ‘Thalayanakkanam’ is essential in tamil history. Timeline is 150 BCE.(conformed by Kalinga Karavelan inscriptions)

Pandiyan Nedunchezian vows as,

“MANGUDI MARUTHAN THALAIVAN AAGA
Ulakamodu nilaiyiya palar pukazh sirapin
Pulavar Paadathu Vraika En Nilavarai - Puranaanuru – 72

Here sankam (Third sankam) is identified with Mangudi Maruthan one of heads of poets.

Valluvar also says , “ Uvappath THALAI KOODI ullap pirithal
Anaiththaey PULAVAR Thozhil”.

6. “Punar KOOTTU Unda PukalChal Sirapu
Nilantharu Thiruvin Nediyon Pola” - Mathuraik Kanchi.

In this Nediyon (2000 BCE) is refered by Mangudi Maruthanar,the author.

Nediyon is specified by Nettimaiyar as the ancestor of Muthu kudimip peru Vazhuthi who collected ‘Akanaanuru’ of Third sankam as follows.
“Munneer Vizhavin NEDIYON
Nanneer PAHRULI manalinum palavae”

Nediyon belongs to the timeline of Pahruli river’s presence.(2000 BCE)-First Sankam Period.

Hence there are enough literary as well as archeological proofs that Three sankam existed before Common era as mentioned in “Erayanar Akapporul Urai”.

Sinkala history is based on “Mahaa vamsam”. Saathavakanas(Anthra/Vaduka telugu), Kalinkas (oriya/ottars) & Mahathas (Kankai/prakirit) were called summarily as “Mukkalingas” (Three kalinkas) and especially the kalingas(oriya-mixture of vaduku & prakird) invaded through Srilanka’s South East and mixed with the existing tamil race and formulated sinkala language. Kalinkan Empire timeline is 300 BCE.

There is no single Aryan site anywhere in India & world evacuated so far and Maxmuller the father of Aryan theory confessed that there is no Aryan race, in his later years and so there is no Aryan race anywhere in India or world. I may write about it later.

Out of Megalithics so far found out in India (all are only in South India) TamilNadu has 391, Karnataka 300, Anthra 147, Kerala18 & Maharastra 90. All conforms to New Stone Age.(4000 BCE).

Salem’s Pig Iron (Tamil Urukku turned English Wootz Steel) produced by Tamil ‘Katti parayar’ and exported to all western countries (Refer Prehistoric Ancient India by R.D.Banerji) including Masitonia – The country of Alexandar (600 BCE).

The natural transformation of livings of tamils gradually from mountains(Kurinji) to forest(mullai) is revealed by this. Because without invention of Iron Forest living would be difficult.

Hence, Civilizational flow occurred from South to North and not vice versa in ancient days. There is no question of Pre Dravidian/tamil culture anywhere in India. The foremost empire is Pandiyan & Cheran,Cholan, Sathavakanan & Mahatham(north) were ancient empires timewise respectively. I may write more when I deal with Indian culture later.

Asokan ‘Brahmi’(300 BCE) (and tamil Brahmi also since it is slightly different from Asokan Brahmi) was based on tamil ‘Thaamizhi” script practiced during 500 BCE. Dr.S.Rajavel (Madurai University) has proved this by analyzing the “Thaamizhi”scripts around Madurai. Adichanallur urns Script (1000 BCE) is also resembles rather “Thaamizhi” than Tamil Brahmi.

Jain’s Brahmi (100 BCE) in tamil never follows Tholkappiam Grammar (by The.Po.Meenakshi Sundaram –Tamil Elakkiya Varalaaru) and hence it should not be taken as proof for tamil’s earlier scripts. Asokan Brahmi contains message of Chera,Chola,Pandya and Sathyaputhira (Vaduku kannadikaas). This means Asoka knew Tamil kingdoms.

Rajavel further explains that for example in ‘Thaamizhi’ there is no difference for consonant & vowel. This process was followed in kirantha & Vattezuthu scripts of tamil. For ‘K’ and ‘KA’ symbol (+) was used. Whereas in Asokan Brahmi the consonants were added and this was the later development.

We have to know the tamil language to study the “Thaamizhi” script. But We need not know any language to read ‘Brahmi’ script.

Hence with this background we can come to know the tamils script is the earliest whether it is “Thaamizhi” / Brahmi.

In future I may write about West Asian history further in contiuation of my ealier passage and then come to Indina ancient history.

f.s.gandhi

JENT AVESTA (600 BCE)

References :

(1)The Gospel of Zauthushtra, Introduction by Duncan Greenless
(2)Jend Avesta. Part 1 : The Vendidad
(3)The sacred books of the East Vol.4 , James Darmesleter
(4)Pahlavi text, Part 1, E.W. West, ibid Vol.5
(5)The New Britanica Encyclopedia Britanica, 15th edition
(6)Anchor Bible dictionary (For West Asian words meanings)
(7)Feeders of Indian – B.S. Upaththiyaya

‘Jent Avesta’ is sacred book of Jews and was the base for both at simulations and contraries of religions “Isravel”s (Christians) and Ibrahims(Mohammdians).

‘Jent’(Persian),Gente(Pahlavi) means ‘to know’(tamil ‘Kaan’ / Kaandikai). ‘Avestac’(Persian), ‘Avistae’(Pahlavi) means Advertised / Declared (tamil- A+Viththakam-Vitral)

Jents are explanatory notes of Avestas. Jent Avesta are considered as wonderful literature of Persian language. It was transferred orally among priests from 600 BCE and at last had written form in Pahlavi Language only at 531 CE since the script evolved only during that time.

When Alexandar / Skandar (Tamil kandar) won Persia during 330 BCE Avesta traditions were cut off and again refurbished. During that time Persians moved to present Gujarat.

We have to note that The father of Indian nation, Mahatma Gandhi is a Persian. Feroz Gandhi who married Indira Gandhi is also a Persian. Tata & Birla who put seeds to Indian ‘millionarism’ are Persians.

A Indian Persian called ‘Neiyochenk’ translated ‘Avesta’ as ‘Yasua’ into Sanskrit during 1500 CE.

During 1771 CE ‘Ankvettil Dubasan’ translated ‘Avesta’ into French from Gujarat Persians. It must be noted Gujarathi & Pahlavi languages have similarities.

‘Zarathustra’ was God Sun’s messenger (tamil Suriya-zara, Thuthar-Thustra) who states the rules that are to be followed by people in the struggle against bad elements.

The religion that was before Zarathustrar is ‘Maji’(Asiriyan) (Tamil-Mayon). Zarathustra propogated a refined ‘Maji’ called ‘Majesta’.

Concepts : God’s name are Mejesta / Asura Majesta / Aavara Majesta /Oor Majesta /Aravamaithi. He works for good.

Aukura Manyu / Aka mana / Aakriman are evil forces. He works for evil things.

In the above Aravamaithi and Aka mana are direct tamil words and others are the phonetically shrinked form of these two.

Akura Mejesta is God of Storm. Aka mana is god of Sattan(ghost). The war between these two happens in the place ‘Vai’ / Varana which means ‘Vaccum’. In support of Akura Majesta / Aaravamaithi the ‘Zarathustra’ (Suriya Thuthar) comes as ‘Mithra’(Friend-tamil Mynthu) in sky as great ‘sky light’/ flash.

‘Vai’ in tamil also means Vaccum which covers the whole world. Vai+Akam= Vaiyakam means world. ‘Varana’ is from tamil ‘Arunam’ which means ‘Thodu Vaanam’- The place where sky touches Sea. ‘Vari’ also means Sea and ‘Varunan’ / Varanan is God of Sea people (Neithal land).

In war ‘Asuras’ are in support of Akura Majesta. Theevar (Thevar) who had head as ‘Inthira’ are in opposite camp.

Inthiran was god of ‘Marutham’ land in Kumari Kandam. They migrated to ‘Kokra’ river of Saraswathi Valley. Vedhic hymns in prakrit / chandal form were sung.

‘Asuras’ were followers of ‘Mayon’ (Majesta) in kumari kandam. They migrated through Persian Gulf to Eran in which Mesometomian culture contains tamil elements. Paluchistan is also a witness where tamilian ‘Prahui’ language is still present.

The war happened between these groups through Arabian Sea of Gujarat and Indukush Mountains of Afkhanistan which has Kyber & Bolen passages.

In South India these two worship was turned into Siva(Seyon) & Thirumal (Vishnu) is different story.

f.s.gandhi

I have never seen "Tamizh Patrons and Tamizh Lovers" project Tamizh without degrading other Language. I think these people should understand the reality.

Yes The Greeks have cultural Bondage with Asia. This has been told in MaahaBharatha itself..The Greece supported Pandavaas in the Great War and in turn, one of the Yudhishtira's daughter was married to the prince of Greece.

The Greeks were also foloowing "Sanaathana Dharmam" and Tamizh people were not following something different from this Sanaathana Dharma". This thread's authos seems to project an image that Tamizhiyans were following an altogether different way od life. No it was not. There is no second opinion that Tamizh is one of the oldest and beautiful languages.

It seems that the author of this topic has an inherent hatred towards the Non-Tamizh! Please stop hating others and see things as they are.

I wonder whose incarnation this is! :roll:

When will u guys start to debate on the question raised rather than picking on the poster.

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It seems that the author of this topic has an inherent hatred towards the Non-Tamizh! Please stop hating others and see things as they are.

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The author has expressed fair views. He has just given research opinions. He has not said anything undesirable about other languages or their speakers.

Friends,

We find that FSG AND Bismala with Great Interest rather Chavunism on Tamil and Twist or misinterpret the records.

Tamil Sangam Lit. are dated to 250BCE to 200CE, Tholkappiyam around 100-50 BCE, and Vedas to 2000BCE or earlier considering Saraswathi river dried by 2200- 1900BCE.

Tamil has around 35% Sanskrit Words and half that from Prakrit and Pali which are branches of Sanskrit, which is acknoledged by Internationally Regarded and Reputed Scholars who research on Linguistics.
Devapriya.