irir123,
As Jai says, probably 11 people know about 'Chal Chalein', if you don't consider the cast and crew of the film. (Maybe many of the cast / crew would probably want to forget about the film.) A lovely score wasted on that movie.
irir123,
As Jai says, probably 11 people know about 'Chal Chalein', if you don't consider the cast and crew of the film. (Maybe many of the cast / crew would probably want to forget about the film.) A lovely score wasted on that movie.
Suresh,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Going by what he has written before, I was predicting that he'd trash it. I wasn't trashing his opinion. He has his opinion and so do we have ours. Thats all to it, and it is not worth exclaiming:)
-Gokul
i dont mean to offend any one..what is chorus part that suits 2010,Quote:
Originally Posted by irir123
"yole yole yole",or "fouham heeee mo chee.."or is "mehu mehu mehu"?? i think every composer has some how has his own sounds for chorus like Devas' sick 'hayo hayo"..which stays on for ever...
In Telugu, there are two then:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulkster
1. Oh My God
2. Thyagayya.
In Hindi:
1. Happi
2. SRK
3. Anything else, after Paa's success? :)
Malayalam:
1. Satyan Anikkad film
2. Mohan Lal film.
Tamil:
1. Ayyan?
2. ??
3. ??
And.... Any idea if IR is working on any non-film albums? Long time since he produced one.
Well he will probably do a Non-Film Album if he really feels there is a challenge in that situation. Thiruvasagam happened when he rewrote a composition for his friend Laszlo Kovacs in tune to the lyrics Kovacs was working on and he wondered why not try them for something like thiruvasagam.
HTNI and NBW are projects he always was thinking of, the first probably identifies his "scientific" proof that WCM is no different from ICM and the other proves that music stems from natural sounds which we then make them into music we enjoy and listen. Like it is part and parcel of life yet we do not realise them.
There were rumours he has alot of "lunchtime" compositions about thoughts he had about music but they are all just kept in the dark as currently he is quite busy with projects.
Tamil
No Bala movie in near feature, he has roped U1 for his next. Already kamal has joined in the 'don't look at IR' list. What about Kannabiran of Ameer? is not IR?
I don't have much hope on Ayyan or Mayilue. I mean they may not be released. But it is Padithurai seems to be released soon.
Hi
Being a hardcore fan of Raaja, I am seeing a significant change in Raaja's attitude for the past 3 months. Raaja has started attending functions/promos. That does not surprise me to a greater extent. But what surprises is the talk where he mentions that this movie is my 882nd movie and PAA movie is 884th movie and so on.
Raaja never keeps track of the number of movies/accolades/awards he has won so far and never speaks about the same. Because he used to tell that he has not achieved anything in music and he has miles to go.
Considering that, it is a surprise to me in Raaja saying the above (in relation to the movie count).
Has Raaja thought that he has reached more than what can be thought of or is he showing signs of being contended with his achievements.
Both cannot be good news for the die-hard fans since we want him to achieve more and not feel contended..
May be I m wrong in my thinking and Raaja proves me the same
not a day goes by for me without listening to that soul soothing melody of 'Aliyaage' and the brilliance of 'gup chup' and the playfulness of 'uff arre tu'. other two songs aren't pushovers either. Strangely ppls ears proved to be slightly worser than a donkey's capacity to smell camphor.Quote:
Originally Posted by irir123
Agree with both jaiganes & irir123 - chal chalEin score is superb! IMO, comparable to the two biggies of recent times (PR / pA) and above anything he did in TFM in the last couple of years (with the sole exception of kaNNil pArvai) :-)
you are completely missing my pointQuote:
Originally Posted by rajaalltheway
well if you want to put IR in the same platter as Deva, go ahead - but i bracket IR with the best in the world - and i dont see a john williams or a hans zimmer doing any of this crap - true, IR works under different circumstances, but right now, when his music (as well as others) is being accessible to a wider spectrum of ppl than ever before, I wud want his output to NOT have such 'dang ding' nonsense
last year, i did play some of IR's tracks to a documentary film making friend of mine, who immensely liked the variety/versatility, and the tunes, but upfront pointed out the weird sounds (paraphrasing her -"whats that weird 'jaangu chakku chachakku chakku' in an otherwise brilliant 'rakkamma' no ?") and also the recording quality
recording-wise his music has jumped ahead, but when i get to listen to 'suryakanthi' with all those things i mentioned, i dont know how i can send such an album for a review! go back and read steve's review of IR's music in Film Music Journal - even in his glorifying review, he has upfront pointed out the inconsistent sound levels in Cheeni Kum's recording!
lets face it - this kind of a 'frog in the well' attitude will not help - and being objective and constructively criticizing WILL HELP!
IR might be a genius, but now with more and more people taking interest in his output, he better get rid of these redundant sounds and replace them with something more universally palatable
if not, a bunch of IR fans like you and me will listen to his music, and that too, downloaded illegally online, after some HCIRF gets lucky enough to get hold of his released CD, rips it and uploads it somewhere - this trend will continue, and IR will get continue to be, to quote Vignesh from his article "an island in India, that noone will ever know of"
About "Paa" - its commercial and critical success is largely due to the Amitabh factor plus Balki's persistent savvy marketing in the north/ hindi belt (this is not to trash the quality, but the kind of hype that went with the marketing of 'mudi mudi' in every other TV channel - had it been done for 'chal chalein', that album wud have become equally popular)
lets face it - Bachan himself has been down in the dumps getting infamy through all kinds of offscreen dealings - barring his 'kaun banega crorepati' success, his films have all sunk without a trace last few years - PAA is the brainchild of Balki and it has worked through a well-planned aggressive marketing campaign(which has its spillover effect on the success of music as well)
yet another thing to consider - there are 'n' no of camps in Bollywood - Bachan camp is just one - there are others, Shah Rukh camp, Aamir khan camp, karan johar camp, rajshri camp, hrithik-rajesh roshan camp and a few other camps - these camps often might intercollaborate, but seldom they look outside and they have certain preset teams of technicians including composers - IMHO, the possibility of any of them working with IR (despite Paa's success) is very low - even if they did approach IR, our man in one moment of eccentric indecisiveness, might turn down an offer!
and then we have this tiny bunch of creative guys like sudhir mishra, vishal bharadwaj, pankaj kapur, and a few other creative guys with theatre background making offbeat films which may or may not be commercially viable - these guys MIGHT want to work with IR, but even if they do, the chances of success of the output commercially wud be 50:50
this is all based on my understanding of whatever little i have been seeing in the media online - what IR needs in the hindi film circle, post-PAA, is a real kickass album like what shankar-ehsan-loy did with 'dil chahta hai' - an album that will be played on FM and by DJs - an album filled with 'mudi mudi' type nos! and it has to be in a film thats hyped up and silly enough to be a hit!
our man OTOH is "un kani vizhum yena dhavam kidanthaen" type - expecting fate to take its own course - in deep contrast to another composer who is ambitious enough to make proper use of his collaborations to further his dreams!
its upto IR entirely
Update on Padithurai:
http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/t...cle/52496.html
thanks,
Krishnan
IRIR,
:notworthy: again, for both the posts
P.S: Though i wouldn't worry about an outsider not liking the chorus in Raakkamma Kayya Thattu, i get the larger point you are making. There are two things here - the eternal elements and the packaging and capsule elements that go with the times. I don't think any of us here has any problems with the eternal but it is the latter that you are addressing and i agree (certain synth sounds, the 'sound' of some choral parts, not the ideas, etc etc)
One +ve development with the recent IR albums (even the vAlmeeki / azhagar malai kind) is the glorious return of bass and similar return of percussion sounds :-)
mudi - mudi sounds are like agni* days when IR was the authority in that area. Both the prelude and interlude have mirattal guitar sounds that he reserves only for select numbers nowadays.
It must be Balki's idea to use the 'pA' theme left and right in the album. IR using the same lude repeatedly in a song itself is rare (very rare actually). Here he uses thrice in the AB song (both interludes and postlude).
In addition this comes as a 2nd interlude of hichki-hichki in a mildly modified manner. Used on their website, as a remix in the album and per reviews, through out the BGM.
It's probably the ad world style :-) In any case, that piece is quite catchy (catchy like the "washing powder nirma" jingle)
That way, chal chalEin has lot more. For one thing, if someone gave me without telling it's IR, I would have had a tough time recognizing it (except may be the chal chalEin song). Very different any of his prior / current works and also catchy! badhlA dhEi has excellent drum work and playful wind instrument sounds. The album also has variety (like 80's TFM ones).
//our man OTOH is "un kani vizhum yena dhavam kidanthaen" type - expecting fate to take its own course - in deep contrast to another composer who is ambitious enough to make proper use of his collaborations to further his dreams! //
Well Said. :)
app_eng,
I know people may bang me with a blunt instrument but albums like 'Madhiya Chennai' have the same sort of variety that you are talking about in "Chal Chalein". A kuttu song, a choral harmony, two wonderful female solos, amazing interludes, a very peppy 'ilavayasu' etc. Whatever you said about 'Chal Chalein' songs can be told about 'ilavayasu'. It will be difficult to say it is by Raja had we not known it earlier. The main problem with such movie scores is the lack of marketing, glamorous stars, Sun TV buying rights etc. That the movie itself is pathetic and amateurish doesn't help either. In my opinion, I would rate 'Chal Chalein', 'Madhiya Chennai', 'Valmiki' all on the same scale.
The operative word being 'dreams'. What can you do when our man doesn't have such dreams? Forget going global, I am sure that Raja will not even worry about Hindi. 'Paa', to him would be just one more film. That's all. (Unlike us, who think it can be a foundation for him to do more Hindi films.) That's who he is and probably that is why he produces the music that he does!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mohanraja
Sureshs65 :-)
Two things that bring down the standard of IR's TFM are not so apparent to me in chal chalEin - lyrical quality (my Hindi is not good enough to appreciate or dismiss poetry quality) and singers (again can't say much about pronunciation / diction etc in Hindi, still they have superb control and voices compared to their TFM counter parts used by IR).
Actually I missed out nandhalAlA in TFM which is superior to chal chalEin - very good album with at least 3 good numbers (mella oorndhu, kai veesi, onnukkoNNu) :-) Unfortunately, for an ill-fated movie - so much ill-fated that crazy fellows are given special shows by the director who cannot get it released :-(
Rajini's love expression is decent in situations
and in the songs also.....
ponmanae sangeetham padivaa - nice one...
Muthamizh kaviyae varuga - Nice to see this Rajini.....
Rajiniin shyness - nalla irukum....
app_eng,
'Chal Chalein' lyrics are not anything to shout about. 'Paa' is better. You are bang on about the singers though. The problem is the same singers sing at both places!! It is just that they are native of North India and hence sing better in their language.
Couple of things that I noticed in the last few albums. Raja seems to have heard our earlier complaints about too much Bhava and too much Raja. Bhava is almost absent in the last few albums (Jaganmohini, Madhiya Chennai, Kannukulle, Pazhassi Raja, Om Shanthi, Suryakanthi.) Raja's appearance is also limited. His voice suits the song both in PazhassiRaja and Madhiya Chennai.
BTW, 'Jaganmohini' is another worthy album for three of its rocking songs.
Usha,
I guess you posted in the wrong thread :)
suresh,
yes. adhukulae parthuteengala...
hehehe....
epadi delete panradhu suresh..
Usha,
I was afraid that too much of Divya Bharathi effect in the other thread has probably confused you :)
adhelam onum ilai suresh.. hehehhehe
vayasachu. adhan...
4, 5 thread parthutu, reply panna nenachu
maathi post panniten.
delete aga vazhi ilaiya........
Thala. enna thala tenson aaiteenga.Quote:
Originally Posted by irir123
we are referring to the context - Thiruvasagathula chanku chakka nnu podaliye. that said, i will have to defend IR by saying 'shakalaka'nnu pottaa thalayai aatra koottam chanku chakkaanukum thalaya aattatume.
Oum shanthi album is kick ass stuff !! Yes ,synth usage is jarring - but neverthless when i compare it with the ones used in Maaya kannadi , its sounds better and bit polished!
Jai,
While I don't care for the "cham chak" in the prelude to Chan Chanare, I quite like the "daang deeng" sung by the kids in the charaNam!
So, IR please stop using Cham Chakku.. but do continue your Daangu deengu:-)
Have we heard "jing jongu" recently? I quite miss that!
Mumbai Ramki,
You are right in describing it as kick-ass. Especially the "China Polike"- the way the charaNam starts - very, very handsome duet.
Gokul
What a research sirji :D I too like the 'daang deeng' bit. Doesn't sound bad. I agree with Jai that in this context the 'ching chak' does not sound too out of place. It would have in 'Flying on the Moon'.Quote:
Originally Posted by writeface
Maybe we should all start a small competition to come up with such nonsensical phrases. Whoever wins should be given a chance to be a MD for a day. Like the 'oru naal mudalamaichar' :lol:
Mumbai Ramki,
Latea vandhalum latesta vandhinga. Somehow I had an inkling that you would love this album. As I said earlier, anyone who had loved 'Shambu' would love this album as well.
I dont want to contest irir's point. But here are my observations on this subject. For IR who has grown up with folk and tribal music and has used them effectively to enthral an audience of 50million people for more than 30 years ..phrases like those mentioned do not have a negative connotation. Actually, I feel it is great he does not have this notion. Otherwise, it will be alienating a big section of our population which still has not tasted the fruits of globalization and is toiling in the hard sun, making a living farming dependent on seasonal rain (vaanam paartha boomi) and/or working in factories. These people have not attuned themselves to the latest hip-hop beats or R&B and are still happy with tha na na type of singing (mind you carnatic music was sung in our land using tha na before sa re ga ma pa da ni came in) and our rhythm patterns.
That said, I do want to see IR known internationally and hope many of IRIR's efforts bear fruit. I think if he works with people like Balki we will have song which are more tuned to western sensibilities (even in PAA mudi mudi is the pick in this aspect).
Kiru,
>>Actually, I feel it is great he does not have this notion
A very sensible response from you.
I guess we all suffer from (sometime unintentional) elitist approach.
Gokul
I agree with Kiru, IR's songs reflect the culture and also the situation in the movie. A song like Rakamma which has the amazing wcm pieces in introduction as well as in interludes is still deeply rooted to our cluture in its soul and the jaangu phrase brings that out. It reflects the slum dwellers in the movie or the Basthi folks(as they say in Hyderabad slang) singing and dancing to express their joy and such phrases suit them perfectly. So when presenting to people abroad we should explain that these sounds reflect the people and their culture and their way of expressing the joy. IR does not compose keeping in mind the Americans sensitvity or tastes. They should be made to understand( i know its difficult) and appreciate how IR fuses these two elements and creates songs/ music which is intricate on one hand as well as reflects the culture and region it represents. Infact i can boldy say IR is probably the one composer in India who even while presenting western concepts and Rythms in his songs/music still brings out the culture and mood of the people/region/language.
Infact that is the main reason ARR succeded so quickly in the North since his tunes/music are more generic in nature with no strong cultural influences of a region or a language. I am quoting ARR as an example only and not saying his music is bad or anything. so please do not create an issue out of this.
My take on jAngu chakku :
I think IR has jinjanakku jinakku in his blood and would love to use in every other song if given a free hand :-)
That we don't get it in as many songs is perhaps because of the insistence of the project manager :-) And he complies without any fuss - Mahendran & BM had completely polished / shiny / sophisticated scores way back in 70's itself.
I think he does based on demands - that 'en iniya pon nilAvE' is still enjoyable to current hi-fi crowds is a simple ejjAmple (cleverly used in a horrible movie like VA to force even an irritated viewer like me enjoy a few scenes). 'paruvakkAlangaLin kanavu' - if available in good recording quality will instantly attract anyone in the west IMO.
Talking about west (i.e. U.S.), I don't think they care about jingu chakkA (there're enough weird sounds in any of their average songs). It's probably elite Indians who feel irritated :-) Like I wrote earlier in another thread, a totally sober audience, comprising of people with absolutely no ancestry from India - many musically trained - thoroughly enjoyed 'iLanjOlai pooththadhA' to my utter surprise!
A Detroitter who comes to gym mostly at my times taught me a few tricks and we ended up discussing many things including meesic. After ARR won Oscar, there was a nice talk about him and I casually mentioned about my specific preference of IR under whom ARR worked for a while.
This man immediately said, yes I've heard / read about him (possibly from Indian co-workers at some point of time) and asked me for some samples. Have given him HTNI last week, telling that #10 is my fav (do anything) and also a brief intro about how it has elements of WCM & ICM seamlessly integrated for an organic fusion. I'll get his feedback in a week or so (BTW, he's an instrumental lover)
>> Have given him HTNI last week, telling that #10 is my fav (do anything) and also a brief intro about how it has elements of WCM & ICM seamlessly integrated for an organic fusion.
I did the same thing in '97 to a drummer who I worked with in Denver,CO. Guy came back and said that the recording wasn't up to par, even though he said he enjoyed the album.
Gokul.
kiru - this is getting nowhere! do you mean to say that the toiling-in-the-sun crowd cannot appreciate a melody without 'dang dings' and 'cham cham chamakku chams' ?? didnt the same crowd love/enjoy a 'tharai mel pirakka vaithhaan' from KV Mahadevan or a "thirudaadhey paappa thirudaadhey". or a "budhhan gandhi yesu pirandhadhu bhoomiyil yedharkaaga ?" kind of songs which did not have such nonsense ??Quote:
Originally Posted by kiru
isnt such a claim doing injustice to their appreciative ears and actually sound condescending/patronising ? salilda did not resort to such stuff in his evergreen 'madhumathi' which had lots of tribal/folk based songs !
IMO, the problem lies elsewhere - (1) IR doing tons of movies at a time, and often perhaps not having time for a complete song, and hence such 'phrases' probably came in haste - best example, the obnoxious 'pee peee pibbeeepee pee pee' chorus in the second interlude of the delightful 'vaa vaa manjal malare' from rajathi raaja! as i said, these things at the peak of his career cud be excused (though i dont see why coz, as a professional, he shd have given equal importance to each and every film he was doing, and gotten ridden of such phrases replacing them with some other stuff) - so that possibly explains the state in the 1980s; (2) but now, its an inexplicable sense of 'this is enough for you' to a 'yes boss, yes boss' nodding filmmaker - wud he have the guts to come up with such stuff with someone like kamal ? the 'bey bey peppey' wail in 'kombula poova sutthi' was very brief and strongly context-based and hence kamal probably allowed it
there is only a certain limit beyond which one cant explain the 'context-based' choice of crap IR often employs in his music even after 880 films! am glad that he didnt mess PAA with such stuff coz of the canvas and the wider reach he must have envisaged
irir123 I think you are biased a little by having to show those songs to foreign listeners, and being embarrassed by those sounds. They are annoying from that point of view, but as a native listener they are all fun! I don't think IR ever thought of them from the former point of view or cares about it. Only we worry about those things. but imho they are all characteristics of his "unbridled genius".Quote:
Originally Posted by irir123
IRIR,
nice thoughts.. But
While i agree with you reg IR not caring about certain things, and maybe in some cases such Chorus can be eliminated or not appropriate.. But in general I strongly disagree the view point regarding Chorus.. especially the example you pointed.. in the Rajathi Raaj song.. The lyrics allude to the marriage and IR very appropriately brings in the Nadhaswaram.. now this can be done in vocal or instruments and he has chosen btoh equally well in various songs.. In this song it happens to be Vocal chorus.. how else can u sound a Nadaswaram other than Pee pee.. Not Dum Dum or Jaanku jakka..Right !!
I personally love a lot of the Chorus humming in his songs and sometimes these meaningless dabble too.. Like Kiru said, What the hell does Shakalakka mean.. or for that matter ".. u wannna " or some rap crap in the middle of a tamil song that Harris and other neo MDs throw in..???
Rajaathi Raaja was not done to please any Western audience in the first place.. It was done to please Rajini movie goers.. That's all.. it is a bonus that song was liked by you and some foriegners atleast in part..
Knowing you well, I guess i can see your frustration that IR with all the "Sarakku" has not achieved the global recognition and most importantly that too partly due to his own "eccentricities"..
But shooting down all Chorus words that do not have a meaning is not fair i guess. and your bias towards Kamal is so obvious here that you say Kamal constrains IR - As far as i Know IR, he does not care about IR or Balki or even Rajini or Amitabh .. ( had it been any other MD, they would have rushed to Mumbai on AB's invitation ).. This is IR's strength and weakness in my HO.
I am sure Kamal songs had their share of such chorus as well.
Cheers
MSK
MSK - in sathya, "raappaa thagu thigu" in 'pottaa padiyudhu" and "da da datta dattada dattada dattaa" in "nagaru nagaru" tracks were Kamal-centric choral nonsense contribution from IR!
i say kamal coz in a DD interview in the mid-1990s, IR had mentioned kamal as the most difficult to work with saying kamal is a taskmaster! IR acknowledges that - since both have an excellent work chemistry, they share a rapport level where both dont sacrifice from an aesthetics point of view and do justice to each others work - hence I mentioned kamal I have not heard IR mentioning anyone else in the same way - you can check back on his interviews!