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I think Fr. Jegath or TIS-USA would not mind IR taking even 100% of the profits..as along as they are not in debt..No proceeds from the audio sales should go to IR or his foundation till all the debts of TM and TIS-USA are settled.
I dont think IR wants a rebellion on this from his fan base.
I didn't expect a very logical person like rs to compare baba with TiS...There's a lot of key differences...
1. Rajini paid the languishing disti's...not the producer (which was probably himself).
2. He paid back what he originally collected...(Disti's pay phenomenal sums to get rights for Rajini film. When it didn't collect as expected, they were experiencing loss and languishing while the money they paid was stashed away by the producer & Rajini). While it was a very fine & humane gesture, it was also true that unless Rajini keeps them in good humor, there won't be good prices for any of his future ventures...
3. In TIS case, the allegation is producer is languishing while disti & artist are supposedly making a lot of money (which is still a speculation). It's even alleged that the producer does not even have enough rights , like to question the artiste or as to appointing disti's etc.
There's no direct comparison.
"No proceeds from the audio sales should go to IR or his foundation till all the debts of TM and TIS-USA are settled."
I agree with you on this Kiru, which is morally correct.
However, how do we know whether he even gets any money from this or not? Without knowing that key information for a fact, how can one start accusation?
I have followed this conversation and am disturbed about this. However, it may be too premature to cast aspersions on IR without understanding his side of the story. Unless, of course, one's presumption in going into this is that IR is evil, guilty and orchestrated this whole thing to defraud his supporters. From what I have seen and observed of IR over the last 25+ years, such presumption to me would seem far-fetched.
(When I first heard of the troubles TISK had about 3 months ago, I had sent TIS a check for $500. This is in addition to the $500 I donated when the project had started and after purchasing about 15 CDs/DVDs. The reason I am writing the above is to let people know that I am not just talk but also prepared to help TISK out of their trouble).
From what I read, TIS-US was given CDs at a reduced rate so that they can sell here in the US. From IR's perspective it may have been a fare deal. Let's say that the reduced rate was $5 per CD. The selling price was $15 per CD. For 8000 CDs, the revenues would have been $ 120,000 with costs of $40,000 meaning TIS-US can make $80,000 towards repayment of loans etc. This may have been the calculation from IR's side to justify that they were giving TIS-US a fair deal. The mistake on the demand (that it has been difficult to sell 8000 doses )or a premium price ($15 per CD or cost of $5 for TIS) may have been honest mistakes with no malintentions.
I have also read here in these convesations that another issue was that Welate was given rights for the US. While there should have been convesations with the TIS-US on this, it is however difficult to determine if that has hurt the efforts of TISK to sell the CDs in the US. TISK and njv have been the champions of this project in the US and we all support them wholeheartedly and buy through them. in fact that Welgate has US rights has been news to us just from these conversations in the last few days and hence very difficult to imagine how much it would have cut into the US sales through TIS-US.
There may have been confusion/misperceptions/ on the role of Tamil Maiyam and TIS which may not have been addressed at all. Were they recognized as co-producers of the audio or as promoters whose role was to raise money for the project. Sometimes this is why people say that friendhsip and business should be different because some of these critical questions should have been clearly ironed out prior to the start of the project. Eventhough these may be tough convesrations, not having them in an agreement leads to misunderstandings later. It is sad that that what these guys started with an effort to raise the awareness and respect of IR's music is slipping into an effort which would further erode IR's fan base.
Having said all this, our efforts should be around how do we help TISK. From atleast the economics of the 8000 CDs and having gotten it at a reduced rate - if we can help sell those CDs - I hope it should be able to relieve of his financial commitments due to this project. However, I think we have a hit a wall marketing it to the same customers (that is tamil listeners in this forum). Here ae some additional ways we could attack this a few different ways:
a. Market TBI to new customers: I was thinking who could be customers for this who would be interested in buying this. Can anyone get a list of music departments at universities in the US (I am sure there should be a couple of thousand programs around the country). We can do a direct mail campaign to the Departments in these universities to buy and also if we can get faculty memeber list from these universities in the music department - we can also persuade the faculty members to get one for their personal listening.
Similarly, religion is a subject in these uiversities. They would be another segment within the universities to target with a direct mai. Obviously, the message of this campaign should highlight the religious importance of TBI and market to the department and faculty. It will be great if there are students in the US Universities who are frequent visitors to this forum can either test market this concept or help marketing in universities.
b. I dont know how many are up for this. i think there are probably a committed 100 people who visit this forum. May be we can provide $100 each to TIS-US to help with this situation.
I hope the above helps. I want to make sure that we turn this convesration to how can we help all those involved do not get hurt financially rather than cast aspersions with imperfect information.
what happened to music college and tsumani relief fund that IR promised?
SWAHA!!!!!!!!!!
"TIS-US was given CDs at a reduced rate"...
That's definitely not fair, when TiS-USA has loaned to the producer...they should have been given, if there was no other alternative, at least to the extent of the loan amount, free of any charge...(bartering money with CD)...paying loan through commission is atrocious...Tis-USA are lenders and not sales agents...
Again I'm not blaming IR on the above...how do we know it was his decision to make TiS-USA collect their loan through commission? Again, after loaning a huge sum, how can they raise another $40K (or the cost of 8K CDs) to pay up front? Or was it on a credit basis?....questions / questions...no answers...
Interesting discussion - with lots of emotions thrown in for fun!!
My take - Not guilty unless proven guilty
Fr Gaspar had a chance meeting with IR out of the blue and IR told him about his dream and Jegath said we will get the funds, ''even if we have to go to hell''. The very statement with which Fr Gaspar made his first posting in TFM soliciting funds. Are they in 'hell' now? - not surprised.
Tamil Mayam was an unknown entity in this forum and following this project, suddenly they had an immediate impact among IR fans initially and later amongst the tamil people during the pre release promotion and post release glory of TIS. Who knew about them before all this, very few maybe. They have to pay royalty to IR as long as they exist as an organisation for the popularity they reaped due to this association.
All the above discussion kind of got triggered by a news on a website...
http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/...ct/291005a.asp
I read that again.
It simply states that while Gaspar & Vincent were discussing with some disti in UK (not finalized), they were shocked to learn that IR has already concluded an agreement with another disti for UK...though the tone and heading is accusatory towards Raja (ezhudhinavar pEr "Vamban":-))
While that may be konjam `kadandha kai' (i.e. taking matters to his own hand and not waiting for / taking into confidence the correct people to finish the deal), it still doesn't allege fraud.
Where does it say that the money out of the proceeds will NOT go to TM?
Most who frequent this forum are aware of the fate of IR's RPO symphony...while much has been talked / written about it (including the last article in Vikatan about KR taking the cassette to Delhi for Subbudu to listen), it never saw the `release' light...and nobody got a chance to listen.
While many reasons have been told about that, the most probable reason could be IR not having ANY say or control over the producer of that album...thus making it impossible for him to do anything with commercial release...
He would have sensed a similar plight for TiS when it got completed but TM was struggling to find a buyer...(That struggle / despair was obvious from their postings on Tis-USA.com)...would have got panicked, and reasoned to himself like "TiS'll become another `malarndhum malarAdha' effort, unless I wrest control from this inexperienced group...let me use my commercial connections, rope in Kamal-Rajini for publicity due to my friendship, get Vaiko, my fan, to organize some support" etc...
End result - product got released and acclaimed. Now probably he cares less about the mktg capability of TM people...
As long as deals initiated by IR fetches money to TM and they (including their ally Tis-USA) break-even & get their share of profits, why care about which disti is selling it?
Loans are taken either to get out of financial crisis or if a profit is forseen from investments from loans. In this project, the former is not the case and latter is a gamble TM and TIS-USA took and they have to face the consequences. They have to first prove that the claims of loans is authentic if they want to use it as a reason to be bailed out in a public forum. This is the first time I have heard some one taking loans for charity intentions. To me it seemed completely out of order when TISK group appealed to people in this forum to take loans and donate for this project. Total loss of judgement (insane?)- is my take on this.
In spite of repeated pleas to come out with accounts, neither TIS-USA nor TM have come out with accounts. How much was recieved as donations? how much was recieved as corporate sponsorships prior to release? What is the true expense for producing the CD?
1.4 crores for this production does not sound true. Hungarian symphony orchestra - easter european orchestras are cheap because many of then are cash strapped and would welcome anyone if they come with some funds. Stephen Swartz contribution of few lines is not going to cost the earth. neither is the use of studio facilities of Sony or Richard King. If am completely mistaken, then please come out with actual costs.