The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

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My point is that Bhima and Arjuna are well known warriors and superior in their craft. They should not have ventured into timid tactics.

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There are two ways to view it.
i)The supposedly self righteous characters had negative elements in them too. This was very much prevalent during the war. This nails the very aspect that man has equal standing of goodness and evil in him. It is the choice of which one takes the upper hand in a person's life that matters.

ii)The second aspect propogates that it is alright to get even with the opponent with unfair means just as how treacherous the opponent was before. The unreasonable manner used by the righteous group actually is the fruit of deceit done by the opponent. Therefore, it is not quite right to associate the 'righteous' men with the conduct of their actions in the war.

Balaji
You have obviously not read the explanation of the whole sequence of events. Both Bhima and Duryodhana keep on fighting and the fight is even.

Duryodhana then asks Bhima that to resolve this fight , both of them have to tell their weak spots. Bhima will tell the truth that his Head is the weakest part in his body.Duryodhana will lie that chest is his weakest part.Actually,it'll be the thigh as Gandhari's eyes were covered from seeing it.
So, Bhima will hit Duryodhana as much as possible in the chest and nothing will happen to Duryodhana but whenever Duryodhana hits Bhima on the head, Bhima will become very weak.For this reason only, Krishna will remind Bhima abt his vow.
Seems that after the fall of Duryodhana, Balarama will be very unhappy and he'll leave the place in a huff.

Dear Viggop,
Actually before the war , Balarama will take a neutral stand and will tell both the parties that he will not participate in the war and will go for Theertha yathra…
About Balarama’s reaction after the fight…. He was the Guru for both Bhima and Duryodhana on mace fighting and in his opinion, Duryodhana was a better fighter in this fighting and had high regards for him.
When he sees Bhima hitting Duryodhana on his thighs , he will be furious and will rush towards Bhima .. However Krishna will pull Balarama out of the situation by explaining the whole sequence of events which lead to the war…. And will also highlight to Balarama that at the Rajyasabha, Bhima took a vow to break Duryodhana’s thighs and kill him as he wanted Draupadhi to sit on his thighs… and he will justify the act of Bhima. Still Balarama will not be convinced and will finally move out of the scene stating that Krishna could have avoided the war…
He will also comment that the cowardly act of Bhima is very disgusting and it’s a shame as this is not as per war rules and will leave the place finally.

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Originally Posted by a.ratchasi

[There are two ways to view it.
i)The supposedly self righteous characters had negative elements in them too. This was very much prevalent during the war. This nails the very aspect that man has equal standing of goodness and evil in him. It is the choice of which one takes the upper hand in a person's life that matters.

ii)The second aspect propogates that it is alright to get even with the opponent with unfair means just as how treacherous the opponent was before. The unreasonable manner used by the righteous group actually is the fruit of deceit done by the opponent. Therefore, it is not quite right to associate the 'righteous' men with the conduct of their actions in the war.

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A.R….

Very thoughtful posting. Nice ….
You are right as both Arjun and Bhima had to resort to a befitting reply to Duryodhana for his wicked deeds earlier.
There is no question on the virtues of both Arjuna and Bhima. Both were righteous in their acts and deeds.
My point here is that they did not act like true Kshatriyas…. The way they annihilated their rivals brings disrepute to their credibility and war skills.

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Originally Posted by Raghu

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Originally Posted by S.Balaji

3. Bagadhathan

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BalaJi AnNe

This is the first time, I am hearing about Bagdhathan, can you pls tell me a bit more bout him?

thanks :D

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Dear Raghu,

There were some special characters who also took part in that great war and Bagadathan was one of them. He was highly respected king and was a friend of none other than Indira . As he was a good friend of Gauravas as well , he had to be with them during the war.
He was a specialist in elephant fighting and he had a mighty elephant by name SUPRADHEEPAKAM.
The incident which I had mentioned happened during the 12th day I think when Bhima was destroying Gauravas, Bagadathan had to step in with his mighty elephant and started making deep inroads into Pandava force.
There was also a ploy by Drona to capture Yudhistra alive so that the war will come to an end.
Bhima will launch a fiery attack on Drona. Satyaki and Dhristadhyumna joined him. Watching this from the middle of the field Karna told Duryodhana that Drona needed help. Duryodhana and his brothers went to Drona’s help. Seeing Duryodhana, Bhima, fury was doubled. Before Bhima could inflict any further damage, Bagadathan came there on his magnificent elephant, Supradeepakam. The elephant was quite invincible and had been a scourge to the Pandavas army. The elephant will crush the chariot of Bhima. Bhima could barely escape being crushed under the elephant. But the trunk of the elephant caught Bhima and he could extricate himself with great difficulty. Bagadathan was throwing a lot of javelins to kill the Pandavas army.
Hearing the cries of the agonised soldiers of his side and the terrible noise made by the elephant, Now, Arjuna rushed to his army’s help. He was too shocked to see the havoc caused by the elephant of Bagadathan. Arjuna went for the both, Bagadathan as well as for his elephant. Bagadathan will try to smash Arjuna’s chariot with his elephant. But he could not succeed before Krishna’s skills. Bhagadatta tried all his astras , which were cut to pieces by Arjuna. Arjuna cut the bow of Bagadathan . At this stage, Bagadathan will chant Vaishnava Astra and use that on his Ankush and throw on Arjuna. It was no ordinary astra, he had invoked Vaishnav astra, it’s the astra of lord Vishnu. It was the most terrible astra in the whole universe. However, Krishna will appear before the astra and absorb the power as he was the original owner of it !, and it will become a garland and get wrapped around Krishna’s neck. Arjuna will ask Krishna that why did he come between the astra aimed at him? He was not to participate actively in the war. It was also not the prescribed duty of a charioteer. Krishna smiled and said, I gave this astra to the mother of Narakasura and when I killed him, he gave it to the Bagadathan. The astra is sure to kill the person at whom it is aimed. Nothing could stop him. Since I did not want to lose you, I had to come between the astra and you. And since the Vaishnava astra is back with me, Bagadathan is no longer immune from all the astras and weapons. His dreaded elephant too has become like any ordinary elephant. Now be quick . Do not lose time.
As mentioned in my earlier posting, Bagadathan , due to his old age, will be holding all his extra flesh before his eyes by way of a cloth which Arjuna will tear with his sharp arrows and this will make Bagadathan virtually blind.
Arjuna will then kill the mighty elephant. Then Arjuna’s arrows will kill Bagadathan and he will fall down from the elephant dead. Arjuna will come out of his chariot and will do a parikrama to the fallen great Bagadathan and will pay respects to a great warrior..

Dear Balaji AnNe

Great write up, thanks, one more question,Barberik grandson of Bhima did not participate in the war, why?, is it because Barberik was Lord Vishnu's Bhaktha and he did not want to fight against the lord.


But he had special vision in which he could see the whole war, like this other guy(what was his name) who was narrating the war scene by scene to dhiritharatchasa.

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Originally Posted by Raghu

Dear Balaji AnNe

Great write up, thanks, one more question,Barberik grandson of Bhima did not participate in the war, why?, is it because Barberik was Lord Vishnu's Bhaktha and he did not want to fight against the lord.


But he had special vision in which he could see the whole war, like this other guy(what was his name) who was narrating the war scene by scene to dhiritharatchasa.

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Dear Raghu,

I will do a separate posting on the grandson part

The other guy whom you have referred to was SANJAYA ... AND HE WAS GIVEN DIVINE POWERS BY SAGE VYASAR. ( probably today's doordharshan ! )
Vyasar will appear before the war and will give that extrodinary powers to Sanjaya.. who was assistant to Dirudhirashtra.

He will give a live update to Dirudhirashtra about the war.

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Originally Posted by S.Balaji AnNe

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Originally Posted by Raghu

Dear Balaji AnNe

Great write up, thanks, one more question,Barberik grandson of Bhima did not participate in the war, why?, is it because Barberik was Lord Vishnu's Bhaktha and he did not want to fight against the lord.


But he had special vision in which he could see the whole war, like this other guy(what was his name) who was narrating the war scene by scene to dhiritharatchasa.

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Dear Raghu,

I will do a separate posting on the grandson part

The other guy whom you have referred to was SANJAYA ... AND HE WAS GIVEN DIVINE POWERS BY SAGE VYASAR. ( probably today's doordharshan ! )
Vyasar will appear before the war and will give that extrodinary powers to Sanjaya.. who was assistant to Dirudhirashtra.

He will give a live update to Dirudhirashtra about the war.

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Dear Balaji AnNe

Thanks, yes I remember Sanjaya now, pls continue about Barberik

Everybody arguing that, Bhima took revenge that he will break the thigh of Dhuryodhana, because he asked Dhrowpathy to sit on his thigh. When the Pandavas put their wife as a bet for Gambling, that means they treated her as a 'commodity' and not their wife.

DHURYODHANAN WON THAT "COMMODITY" IN GAMBLING AND HE HAS THE RIGHT TO USE AS HE LIKES.

This Bhima's anger and revenge should make his mind working, when Yudhishtiran (Dharman) decided to put their wife as a bet in gambling.

Karnan asked in front of Krishna :"Manaiviyai panayam vaiththu soodhaadinaaney. Maanamulla manidhan seyvaana idhai..?". His arguement is 100% correct.

Hello Saradhaji,

You have conveyed a very strong message... a very striking one....

I also wonder on another issue.... Before betting on Draupadhi... Yudhishtra had lost himself .... which means he had no right to bet on Draupadhi....
This point will be raised by Draupadhi in the court but it will go to deaf ears......
I wish the remaining pandavas had questioned Yudishtra on his act of betting on Draupadhi... But probably they stood silent as a mark of respect for their elder brother.
By doing this... even the other 4 pandavas did adharma to Draupadhi........

In Panchali sabadham, bharathi also asks the same question. After Yudishtra lost himself in the gamble, he had NO right to make independent decisions as he himself is a slave.In panchali sabatham, i think Bhima gets very angry and says he'll break the hands of Yudishtra.

Also, i'm surprised that Saradhaji says Duryodhana can treat her in anyway he likes.This means that even the Kauravas treat her like a commodity.Both Pandavas and Kauravas are wrong. Nobody has right to treat women as a commodity.Draupdai is a human being and she has her own feelings and she is not an object or thing

Also, when she was being disrobed in fromt of the whole hall by dushashana, all the elders like BHisma,Drona,Dritharastra keep their mouth shut.It was Karna who gives this 'wonderful' idea of disrobing draupadi in front of all the people. Draupadi calls to Krishna to save her but actually even Krishna does not come to her rescue immediately.I read somewhere that draupadi surrenders totally to the Lord(saranagathi) and stops protecting herself from being disrobed. Only after total surrender , the Lord helps her.Till she was associating the soul with the body, Krishna does not come to her help.

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"viggop"]In Panchali sabadham, bharathi also asks the same question. After Yudishtra lost himself in the gamble, he had NO right to make independent decisions as he himself is a slave.In panchali sabatham, i think Bhima gets very angry and says he'll break the hands of Yudishtra.

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Bhima will be passified by Arjuna later on this.

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Also, i'm surprised that Saradhaji says Duryodhana can treat her in anyway he likes.This means that even the Kauravas treat her like a commodity.Both Pandavas and Kauravas are wrong. Nobody has right to treat women as a commodity.Draupdai is a human being and she has her own feelings and she is not an object or thing

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One should go backwards and understand what sequence of events that made Duryodhana so wild and vent his frustration on Draupadhi.
When Duryodhana visits the palace of Pandavas , he will get deceived by various mirages. At one stage he will step into a mirage which actually will be a pond and will slip down.. At this stage, Draupadhi will pass a very crude comment ... THE SON OF A BLIND MAN IS ALSO BLIND .
This will make Duryodhana furious and will immediately walk out of that place but will not be able to forget the insult that he had got from Panchali...
Karna.... at the time of the Draupadhi's wedding, he will also try to participate but Draupadhi will again utter an outrageous comment that I WILL NOT MARRY A CHARIOTEER'S SON.
Karna also equally will get wild on Draupathi...
Both of them took revenge on Draupadhi by dragging her to the Rajya sabha and try to disrobe her......
but this act of both will no way justify what Draaupadhi did to them... but thats the way some vent their anger and frustration...

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Also, when she was being disrobed in fromt of the whole hall by dushashana, all the elders like BHisma,Drona,Dritharastra keep their mouth shut.It was Karna who gives this 'wonderful' idea of disrobing draupadi in front of all the people. Draupadi calls to Krishna to save her but actually even Krishna does not come to her rescue immediately.I read somewhere that draupadi surrenders totally to the Lord(saranagathi) and stops protecting herself from being disrobed. Only after total surrender , the Lord helps her.Till she was associating the soul with the body, Krishna does not come to her help.

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True.... the Lord will come to the rescue when Panchaali totally surrenders before Him.

Balaji
There is another place where Lord Krishna almost decides to enter the war(other than the bagadathan story). When Arjuna vows to burn himself to death if he cannot kill jayadratha, Krishna is not happy.He then asks his charioteer to prepare his chariot for war just in case Arjuna fails in his vow.He tells that he'll wage the war for the pandavas if Arjuna does unable to fulfill the vow.But of course, using a lot of tricks , Krishna saves Arjuna's life and jayadratha is killed. Arjuna succeeds in taking his revenge for AbhimanyuI read this story in HariKrishnan sir articles in chennaionline.

I agree that it was wrong for Draupdai to passed the remark when Duryodhana fell down.But, i'll support Panchali's decision to assert her right on who should marry her.The same panchali will of course not object when Kunti asks her to be the wife of all five.It means that she was a very independent woman who does not fail to do what she wants to do.Nobody can force her to accept anything.If she did not like to become wife of all 5 brothers, i'm sure she would have told that to Kunti and asserted her rights.

Even Sita was like that.When she sees Rama in the streets walking behind Vishwamitra,she falls in love with him.She vows to kill herself if somebody else had broken Shiva's bow.It means, no one can force Sita to marry someone she does not like to marry.

Viggop,

Even before Jayathradha episode, Krishna , twice will get upset and will forge towards Bhishma taking his Sudharshana Chakra...

When Bhishma fights with Arjuna.... Krishna will observe that Arjuna , out of his respect for his Grandfather was not tottally committed to the war with him and was fighting with less force ( despite the Geethopadhesham ! )
While Bhishma will fight with full vigour and will emerge stronger always.... This will make Krishna wonder ... if this situation continues , Pandavas will lose the war and twice he will get furious and will tell Arjuna that - You are not committed totally to the war with Bhishma... Hence Let me kill him and will forge towards Bhishma... Bhishma with tears in his eyes,, will happily salute the Lord saying that.... IF I HAVE TO DIE BY YOUR CHAKRA... IT WILL BE A GREAT BLESSING TO ME.... I WILL REACH YOUR LOTUS FEET. PL DO IT...

At this stage, Arjuna will realise his mistake and will plead to Krishna to cool down and continue his role as a Charioteer.... and will resume the war....

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Originally Posted by viggop

I agree that it was wrong for Draupdai to passed the remark when Duryodhana fell down.But, i'll support Panchali's decision to assert her right on who should marry her.The same panchali will of course not object when Kunti asks her to be the wife of all five.It means that she was a very independent woman who does not fail to do what she wants to do.Nobody can force her to accept anything.If she did not like to become wife of all 5 brothers, i'm sure she would have told that to Kunti and asserted her rights.

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Viggop,

While I too am not denying Panchaali's individual right to decide her choice.... I question the type of comments she had passed on Karna.... CASTING ASPERSIONS ON HIS CASTE... which is sad.....

May be she is a Rajakumari... and she thought the levels will not match.... in that case, she should not have accepted Arjuna as well....
The reason is that until Arjuna reveals himself , she will not know the trueth.....that it was Arjuna....
Here I find dilution in her standards of thinking...

Balaji
I have mentioned this story in either this thread or Ramayana thread. :-)

Balaji
If Arjuna was from charioteer's caste, I think Draupadi might have accepted him.probably , she already fell in love with Arjuna and did not want to maary anyone else.How does Arjuna come into the swayamvara? Does he come disguised as someone else? I thought only kings will be allowed for the swayamvara,right? then, Arjuna had to come as a ruler of some kingdom

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Originally Posted by viggop

Balaji
If Arjuna was from charioteer's caste, I think Draupadi might have accepted him.probably , she already fell in love with Arjuna and did not want to maary anyone else.How does Arjuna come into the swayamvara? Does he come disguised as someone else? I thought only kings will be allowed for the swayamvara,right? then, Arjuna had to come as a ruler of some kingdom

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Dear Viggop,

In Draupadhi's wedding, it was not SWAYAMVARA. Actually Durupadha will hold a test of skills where all princes will participate ( including Karna ) while Arjuna will be in disguise ( to explain why Arjuna was in disguise , I will have to go back to the Arakku maalaigai episode when the pandavas were made to live in Wax palace which was constructed by an architect under the guidance of Sakuni .... but Vidhura will give code worded alarm to Yudhishtra to vacate and with the help of Bhima , they will build a secret escape route and will move out of the palace... while Sakuni and his men will set fire to the palace....
The whole country will believe that the Pandavas had died in the inferno... and will feel sad .... but the Pandavas,, guided by Kunti will be in disguise.... and will not expose themselves for sometime... before the Draupadhi wedding event....

Now, coming back to the wedding event, Durupadha will conduct a skill test and will announce that the guy who wins the skill will marry his daughter....
While no other prince could win that test, Durupadha will wonder how to end this .. .and will announce that anybody can come and display his skill and the guy who wins shall be the worthy person to marry my daughter....
At this stage, Arjuna, in disguise will come forward and win the test ( I think he will come in disguise as a Brahman ).
Everybody will get upset and will start fighting but at this time Bhima will stand in between and will chase them away...

Durupadha will appreciate Arjuna and will do a kanyadhan to him... and will also send his son Drusthadhymnan along with Draupadhi to the bridegroom's house to find out the trueth....
Finally Dirushtadhyumnan will realise that they were pandavas... when he sees them along with Kunti

Viggop,

You had mentioned that Draupadhi already fell in love with Arjuna and would have married him anyway…

Actually, the story goes like this :

Durupadha , to avenge his defeat against Drona , will perform a yagna on two counts :
1.To get a son who shall kill Drona
2.To get a daughter who shall marry Arjuna

The specific reason for the second count was a smart thinking by Durupadha as if Arjuna marries his daughter , he will come by his side and will not be with Drona !
Actually, when Durupadha lost earlier to Drona, it was Arjuna who won the battle against Durpadha and gave the Kingdom of Panchalam as a gift to his Guru.

In the Yagna, Dirushtadhyumnan will come out as son

and Panchali as daughter


The rest if history

In that yagnam, Draupada wanted only a son.He will not want a daughter.But still Draupadi will be born first.She will be born as a mature girl and not as a baby, i think.Draupada will be unhappy because he wanted a son who can kill Drona.So, he'll continue the yagnam till a son is born.Finally, Drishtadyumna will behead Drona in the war.

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Originally Posted by viggop

In that yagnam, Draupada wanted only a son.He will not want a daughter.But still Draupadi will be born first.She will be born as a mature girl and not as a baby, i think.Draupada will be unhappy because he wanted a son who can kill Drona.So, he'll continue the yagnam till a son is born.Finally, Drishtadyumna will behead Drona in the war.

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My reference is from Rajaji's Vyasar Virundhu....
Draupadha will specifically pray to get one daughter who can marry Arjuna so that he will be with him forever...
and a son who can kill Drona...

Also, Dronacharya will ask for the panchala kingdom as a gurudakshina after their teaching is over.First the kauravas will try to get the kingdom but will lose.In the mahabharatha serial on TV, it'll be shown as if Karna will not be able tie the string on his bow in this war.I dont know how far is this authentic.Then, Drona will ask for the same thing from the Pandavas.These 5 people will go and destroy panchala army and capture Draupada alive.Though Drona will forgive him and give back the whole kingdom(?), Draupada will desire for vengeance following his humiliation.Actually, Drona's desire to capture Draupada alive is also vengeance because Draupada will humiliate him when he went asking for wealth.

It is sad that people like Dronacharya and Draupada , who were well versed with Vedas and other scriptures , well read during their times desire base things like revenge! :-(

Viggop,

You are right… Drona and Durupadha were childhood friends and Durupadha will tell Drona that once he becomes a king he will help him.
Drona was a poor Brahman and after marriage , he will need money to sustain and will approach Durupadha.. However Durupadha will scold him saying that a King and an ordinary man can never be friends… and will send him away….
Drona will keep this in mind and will look for an opportunity . In further pursuit of money, he will approach Parasurama who at that time was distributing all his wealth to others as a dharma.
It will be too late for Drona when he reached Parasurama. However Parasurama will suggest that he has only the Divine Astras as wealth now and if Drona wishes, he will teach the entire range of Astra war fare… Drona will accept it and will learn the entire range of astra warfare and will go home.
One fine day, he will come across the Pandava and Kaurava princes trying to get the ball which fell in the well. Drona will ask Yudhistra if he can take it out, what he will give in return. Yudhistra will say that he will arrange for a good Bhojana for the Brahman…
Drona will just chant some mantras on a piece of stick and will throw into the well. He also form a range of continuous sticks and will easily get the ball out of the well.
Yudhistra will be amazed by the act of Drona and will ask him who he is. Drona in turn will say , please narrate this incident to Bhishma .. When it was narrated , Bhishma will realize that its Drona and will invite him to be the Guru and Acharya for both the groups… That’s how Drona will become their Guru….
Its an established fact that Drona liked Arjuna only as he was the most dedicated student…
As a gurudakshina , he will ask the entire group to win Durupadha as a revenge but nobody could beat him ( I mean Gauravas ). However, Arjuna will beat him quite easily and get the entire Panchala kingdom for Drona and will also capture Durupadha as a prisoner for Drona.
Drona , on seeing Durupadha will tell… Friend, you said earlier that a king and an ordinary person cannot be equal. Now I have beaten you… Atleast now you and me are equal..
And gracefully, he will half of the kingdom back to Durupadha… but alas Durpadha will not forget this incident and will look for revenge and rest is history..

The moral of the story probably is…..Even the best of the friends can become bitter enemies ….

Oops.. when we address a topic in Mahabaratha, we will have to go back by several steps to get into the root… Because Mahabaratha is such a fabulous epic , with small small stories with multiple sub stories and branches………….

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Originally Posted by viggop

It is sad that people like Dronacharya and Draupada , who were well versed with Vedas and other scriptures , well read during their times desire base things like revenge! :-(

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Dear Viggop,

I too wonder on this aspect. Infact the great Chanakya also had mentioned about this friendship factor in Arthasastra...
He says, even the best of the friends may become worst enemies in life and in such an event, he says, it will be terrible...
He also says , one should never share the best of the secrets to anybody ... not even to his best friend and not even to his wife !!!
The reason he states, the best friend may become a worst enemy and whatever he had shared will be exposed totally
Sorry for this digression...

SO, Drona's guru is parasurama.I never knew about this one.I have heard about the story of how Drona will retrieve the ball using blades of grass powered with mantras.
What did Drona do with the other half of the Kingdom of Panchala? He would have no use of a kingdom.
Drona was invincible in war just like Bhishma.WHile Bhishma was defeated using Shikandi, Drona will be killed using his love for his son.But still not defeated in war.He'll bve doing tapas after throwing away his weapons and Drishtadyumna will kill him from behind using this oppurtunity.

Also, before the war starts, Bhishma will classify the greatest warriors on both sides known as mahaarthis(i think).He'll classify Arjuna and Bheema as mahaarthis in the Pandava side>Whom will he classfy in Kaurava side?
I think he'll not include Karna here so Karna will get angry at this insult and will not participate in the war for first 10 days(atleast till Bhishma falls).Will Bhisma classify Drona as a maharathi in Kaurava side? anybody has information on this?

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Originally Posted by viggop

SO, Drona's guru is parasurama.I never knew about this one.I have heard about the story of how Drona will retrieve the ball using blades of grass powered with mantras.
What did Drona do with the other half of the Kingdom of Panchala? He would have no use of a kingdom.
Drona was invincible in war just like Bhishma.WHile Bhishma was defeated using Shikandi, Drona will be killed using his love for his son.But still not defeated in war.He'll bve doing tapas after throwing away his weapons and Drishtadyumna will kill him from behind using this oppurtunity.

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yes, Parasurama was the Guru to Drona for archery and use of weapons...
I think Ashwathama will be made the ruler of the half of Panchalam..

About Drona taking charge from the 12th day of the war.... I need atleast 2 days atleast to describe the destruction he made on Pandava army.. the kind of damage he inflicted on the pandava army was so terrible...that Krishna will summon the entire pandavas and will tell them clearly as follows :

IN WAR THIS BRAHMAN CAN NEVER BE DEFEATED... AND THE WAY HE IS CONDUCTING THE WAR , SOONER OR LATER.. YOU ALL WILL BE WIPED OUT AND WILL BE SMITHEREENS...
Better use AHARMA ways to eliminate him...

Followed by this, he will highlight the fact that Drona is very very affectionate towards his son Ashwathama and if somebody can tell a lie that Ashwathama is dead, Drona will not have any interest left out and it will be an easy task for us…
Nobody will come forward.. Infact Arjuna , as a true warrior, will refuse outrightly to utter any falsehood and that too to his Guru..
Even others will refuse…. Finally, of all the persons, Yudhistira will come forward… for the sake of kingdom…..
Ultimately, Bhima will kill an elephant by name Ashwathama and will run before Drona and will loudly shout saying that I HAVE KILLED ASHWATHAMA… but again he will lower his head in disgrace and out of shame…
Drona was about to use BRAHMASTRA at this juncture…. Knowing the terrible effect and the impact of this greatest of the astras, Yudhistra will be very concerned and also Krishna…
Drona on hearing the shouts of Bhima will not believe his words… He will refer to Yudhistra … the basic reason is … of all the persons, Yudhistira is well known for following truthfulness and dharma….
However, even Yudhistra will utter the biggest of the lies in the world by saying… ASWHATHAMA ATHAHA… ( loudly )…. KUNJARAHA ( low voice )…. But Drona will hear the first words only and will be totally down… He will lose all his interests now and will drop all his armoury and weapons and will sit in Yoga posture….
At this moment…. Drustadyumnan will storm in and will cut the head of Drona……

Thus , Drona will end his life….. its really a sad sad sad event…

Again, it goes to prove that the Pandavas could have never won the war ….but for the aharma ways they adopted to eliminate their KEY RIVALS…

I will do a separate posting on WHAT KIND OF DESTRUCTION DRONA INFLICTED ON PANDAVAS DURING THOSE 5 DAYS OF DRONA AS THE COMMANDER AND WHAT TECHNIQUES HE USED … especially the ploy to capture Yudhistra alive…

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Originally Posted by viggop

Also, before the war starts, Bhishma will classify the greatest warriors on both sides known as mahaarthis(i think).He'll classify Arjuna and Bheema as mahaarthis in the Pandava side>Whom will he classfy in Kaurava side?
I think he'll not include Karna here so Karna will get angry at this insult and will not participate in the war for first 10 days(atleast till Bhishma falls).Will Bhisma classify Drona as a maharathi in Kaurava side? anybody has information on this?

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Actually its called .. MAHARATHI...

The most highly skilled of all warriors are called "elephant-riders" or in hindi "maharathi. A maharathi is said to be one who could safely defend himself against several thousand ordinary soldiers or cavalry men. An Atiratha is one who can defend himself against 10000 men. Athiratha is one who does the war by riding on a Chariot....
karna and Arjuna belong to that elite group .. Ofcourse Bhisma and Drona were the pioneers of that art.

One story goes like this...

Bheeshma knew long before that Karna is kunti's son and had high regards for him as a skilled warrior. Also, Bheeshma wanted somedbody who is equally loyal to Hastinapur like him and who can do the war in case he is out of the war... He preferred Karna as the best guy as he is already a good friend of Duryodhana and a skilled warrior as well who can match Arjuna arrow by arrow , astra by astra....
It was deliberate ploy by Bheesma to keep Karna away from the battlefield

In Kauravas... Bagadhathan was called a Maharathi.. .as he was well known for elephant fighting.... and he had the best of the elephants by name SUPRADHEEPAKAM...( I had mentioned about Supradeepakam earlier )

It is said that after uttering that lie, Yudishtra's chariot will also touch the ground.He was so dharmic that his chariot will be floating inches above the ground.

When Arjuna will be desperate to kill Jayadratha before the sunset, Drona will come and block his way.He'll challenge Arjuna to a fight.Krishna will advise Arjuna not to fight with Drona.There is no way he was going to win this fight with Dronacharya and that too within the evening.Arjuna will tell his guru that he wont fight him now and circumbulate around Drona's chariot as a mark of respect to his guru and continue his mission to kill jayadratha.

Balaji
Can you please elucidate about Dronacharya's plans to capture Yudishtra alive. I have heard about it.The reasoning was that if the leader is captured, there was no way anyone who is going to fight after this.This was the same logic used by Kumbhakarna when he captured sugriva and started walking towards lanka amidst the battle.
also remember, Drona and also Bhishma participated in the adharmic killing of Abhimanyu.

I think Abhimanyu even chides Drona that being a Brahman,he is following adharmic path in killing him.

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It is said that after uttering that lie, Yudishtra's chariot will also touch the ground.He was so dharmic that his chariot will be floating inches above the ground.

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Sage Vyasar had mentioned about this Chariot of Yudhistira not touching the earth… There is a poetic touch to this …. Actually Dharmaputra ( as Yudhistira is called by the universe ) was so pure in his virtues and acts ( earlier he will be acknowledged by a Yaksha… you know the various questions posed on him and how he answered )
That his foot was not supposed to touch the GREEDY AND ADHARMIC WORLD…
So, when he uttered the falsehood to Drona for the sake of kingdom, Vyasar will mention that the chariot of Yudhistira touched the earth as he also became part of this adharmic world..

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When Arjuna will be desperate to kill Jayadratha before the sunset, Drona will come and block his way.He'll challenge Arjuna to a fight.Krishna will advise Arjuna not to fight with Drona.There is no way he was going to win this fight with Dronacharya and that too within the evening.Arjuna will tell his guru that he wont fight him now and circumbulate around Drona's chariot as a mark of respect to his guru and continue his mission to kill jayadratha

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When Jayathradha hears the news that Arjuna determined to Kill him the next day… he will slightly panic ( eventhough he was a skillful warrior )and will approach Drona ( Drona was the commander )… and will also ask Drona… What difference that you have made to Arjuna and others….. Drona will say that he gave the same type of training and education to all his pupils but Arjuna was more dedicated and hence he became an expert in archery …
Drona will also comfort Jayatharadha by saying that – Don’t worry… Tomorrow I will form a vyuga which will have a big force in the front and you will be the final one …
Thus Drona will form a formidable vyuga the next day in which DRONA HIMSELF WILL BE IN THE FRONT !!
Arjuna on seeing Drona will start the war… However, Drona will , in his customary style, will SHOWER on Arjuna with arrows… ( ambu mazai )…
Arjuna will find it extremely difficult to penetrate Drona… He will be very much concerned .. .so also was Krishna….
Krishna now will find a way out…. He will tell Arjuna that .. ONE CAN NEVER BEAT THIS MAN BY WARFARE… The only way to overcome him is to surrender to him…. Arjuna will take Krishna’s word as it is and will plead to Drona saying that…
RESPECTED GURU… YOU ARE NOT ONLY MY GURU… YOU ARE EVERYTHING TO ME.. YOU ALSO KNOW THE PURPOSE OF MY WARFARE TODAY… I DON’T WISH TO FIGHT WITH YOU TODAY…PLEASE ALLOW ME TO MOVE FORWARD.
Drona , on hearing these words of Arjuna will proudly allow Arjuna to pass beyond him…to reach his final destination … Jayathradha…

Actually this particular day of war saw some great great battle between Bheema and Karna
Purisiravas and Satyaki
Satyaki and Drona
Dhrusthaduymanan and Drona
Karna and Arjuna

Arjuna will find it virtually impossible to kill Jayathradha… but finally the ploy of Krishna will enable him…

TO SUMMARISE THIS... ARJUNA USED BYPASSING TECHINIQUE ON DRONA TO FORGE AHEAD !

Drona will also be guarding the chakyavyuha formation.The pandavas(other than arjuna) will be unable to break or defeat him.Bhima and Yudishtra will be at their wits end.Jayadratha will guard the front of the chakravyuha.Abhimanyu(16 year old) will break the chakravyuha in lighning speed with his chariot and totally confuse jayadratha.Before jayadratha will regain his senses, abhimanyu will already be inside the formation much to the panic of Kauravas.Drona , being the commander of the army will ask jayadratha to protect the front side and he'll get inside formation to chase abhimanyu.Jayadratha , with help of boon of Lord Shiva will manage to keep the 4 brothers(except Arjuna) at bay for the entire day.
Inside the chakravyuha, Abhimanyu will be impossible to beat.Karna will deceitfully attack Abhimanyu from behind cutting off his bowstring.Then Drona will break his chariot,sword in sucession.Finally, son of dushashana will hit abhimanyu from behind with a mace and kill the 16 year old warrior when he was trying to defend himself with the chariot wheel.

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Originally Posted by viggop

Balaji
Can you please elucidate about Dronacharya's plans to capture Yudishtra alive. I have heard about it.The reasoning was that if the leader is captured, there was no way anyone who is going to fight after this.This was the same logic used by Kumbhakarna when he captured sugriva and started walking towards lanka amidst the battle.
also remember, Drona and also Bhishma participated in the adharmic killing of Abhimanyu.

I think Abhimanyu even chides Drona that being a Brahman,he is following adharmic path in killing him.

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Abimanyu's vatham took place after Drona took charge of the war... This happened after Bheeshma was down...Bheeshma hence had no role to play... but Abimanyu will face Bheeshma also and Bheeshma will be wondered by the skills of him and will mentally compare him with Arjuna ..

About the ploy to capture Yudhistria alive,, actually the original karta of this idea was Sakuni !! and through Duryodhana, they will request Drona to capture Yudhistra alive... by this time, both would have realised that like Bheeshma, Drona also will not kill any of the Pandavas and will try this ploy.
Drona will be extremely happy on hearing this from Duryodhana and will appreciate him.. He will also wonder that.. Yudhistira is such a great personality thats why he is called AJADHACHATRU.. meaning... someone who has no enemies..
Hence Drona will be in pursuit of Capturing Yudhistira...
He will start with a plan to divert the focus of Arjuna by launching agroup of SUICIDE SQUADS !! they are called Thirigarthas.... headed by Susharma...
As per the war rules, if someone challenges you to fight, you as a kshatriya will have to accept it and fight with him... Arjuna followed Susharma and will fight with him while Drona with his entire army will pursue on Yudhistira....
When on the first day, Drona was about to capture Yudhistira... Arjuna will surface from nowhere and will fight Drona very strongly.. THis will force Drona to retreat for a moment.....
Thats how that day will end

The next day, Drona will create Chakra Vyuga.... THE ULTIMATE VYUGA IN WARFARE WHERE ONLY ARJUNA KNEW HOW TO PENETRATE AND HOW TO COME OUT OF IT.

Alas, poor Abimanyu only knew how to enter but not how to get out of it.....

Yes, while dieing, Abimanyu will curse everybody including Drona ...as he will not have even a single arrow with him to fight but will be surrounded by the entire Kauravas..
Drona infact will tell Karna to cut the bow of Abimanyu from behind which Karna will do it immediately... They will kill the charioteer , the horses , etc etc and will fire on Abimanyu from all corners...

Finally, I think the son of Dushashan will kill Abimanyu when he is down and totally exhausted...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

Drona will also be guarding the chakyavyuha formation.The pandavas(other than arjuna) will be unable to break or defeat him.Bhima and Yudishtra will be at their wits end.Jayadratha will guard the front of the chakravyuha.Abhimanyu(16 year old) will break the chakravyuha in lighning speed with his chariot and totally confuse jayadratha.Before jayadratha will regain his senses, abhimanyu will already be inside the formation much to the panic of Kauravas.Drona , being the commander of the army will ask jayadratha to protect the front side and he'll get inside formation to chase abhimanyu.Jayadratha , with help of boon of Lord Shiva will manage to keep the 4 brothers(except Arjuna) at bay for the entire day.
Inside the chakravyuha, Abhimanyu will be impossible to beat.Karna will deceitfully attack Abhimanyu from behind cutting off his bowstring.Then Drona will break his chariot,sword in sucession.Finally, son of dushashana will hit abhimanyu from behind with a mace and kill the 16 year old warrior when he was trying to defend himself with the chariot wheel.

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Its true... I think while I was typing the posting, you had already posted this ! pl see my earlier posting on this...

Yes, Karna under the instructions of Drona will cut the bow of Abimanyu from behind....

Yes, Jayathratha also had a boon from Lord Shiva that he will be invincible for a day....which he will use it on that day...

One small info.... while Abimanyu successfully penetrated and entered the chakravyuga... Jayathradha will also successfully close the breach caused by Abimanyu and will strongly resist the other 4 pandavas from following Abimanyu... This will render the poor guy helpless and will not have any support from Pandavas...

Just imagine a single person...Jayathradha countering the mighty 4 pandavas including Bheema......He was so strong that day...

Even the day of his death... he will not die so easily and will fight with Arjuna until the fag end of the day.. and it will be almost sunset when Krishna will apply his ploy....

Balaji
You mentioned that Krishna will absorb the Nayarana Astra of ashvatama.But I read, that Krishna will ask everyone in the Pandava army to bow down to it.If you attack the astra,it'll become more powerful.So, all the people in the pandava army will lay down their arms to mae the astra ineffective.Bheema will be the only proud but foolish warrior who will swing his mace against it.So, the astra will taget him.Arjuna will pull off the mace from Bhima's hand and Krishna will take Bhima behind his back.so, finally the astra will lose its meaning and become ineffective.

Actually the unfortunate death of Abimanyu had to be attributed to Yudhistira and Bheema as they were the ones who will encourage Abimanyu to lead them and penetrate the Chakravyuga and they will assure him that they will follow him ….
But as Jayathradha was so strong that day in the front, they will not be able to pass him and Abimanyu will have his fate sealed…
My point is…even otherwise, Abimanyu would have died as he had nobody to back him …..the Kauravas would have anyway killed him

Actually,Duryodhana will provoke drona by saying that his love for pandavas will be so great that he wont kill them.Drona will be hurt by all this coming from a fool such as duryodhana.On the day of his death,he'll intrpspect his life. he'll know that he has become attached to worldy desries and accumulated lot of sins.that is why he has to hear harsh words from people like duryodhana.he had thrown all the dharmas laid down by bhishma during the war(like not fighting after sunset).he'll use powerful astras like brahmaastra on ordinary soldiers and will kill thousands of them.he had become adharmic and probably,he'll lose any interest on the war and will fight only for duty's sake on his day of death.

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Originally Posted by viggop

Balaji
You mentioned that Krishna will absorb the Nayarana Astra of ashvatama.But I read, that Krishna will ask everyone in the Pandava army to bow down to it.If you attack the astra,it'll become more powerful.So, all the people in the pandava army will lay down their arms to mae the astra ineffective.Bheema will be the only proud but foolish warrior who will swing his mace against it.So, the astra will taget him.Arjuna will pull off the mace from Bhima's hand and Krishna will take Bhima behind his back.so, finally the astra will lose its meaning and become ineffective.

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I think I mentioned about Vaishnava astra which Bagadhathan will use against Arjuna … by chanting the mantra and will apply on Ankush ! as he will not have any other arrow left out, he will apply on Ankush…As it was SriVishnu’s astra , Krishna will bring himself before Arjuna and will absorb it.. It will become a garland to him !!
The astra which Aswathama used was Bramasiras… which he will use when the pandavas will try to catch him and he will emerge out of Sage Vyasar’s hut….