thiruvasakam in symphony

vijay, but what you have posted is simply a slur on IR(the one I have quoted), whether you intended it that way or not. If you are comfortable with that, I have no problem. I dont understand why a reaction to someone has the right to end up as a strong or ambiguous statement on an artist's character.
From what I can see, your hate for the blind followers of IR is clearly biasing you against IR(that too personally, not even his music). Which is sad.
Well, if I may say so, many a time, your eagerness to put down blind fanatics ends up painting artists, particularly IR, in a bad light.

It seems fashionable here to diss or throw inuendos at an artist based on his fans' reaction - which he hardly can control.
(This is my opinion and I am not going to argue with you on this - if you werent comfortable with this perception, you wouldnt be doing it anyway, would you?)

If you look back at the post I quoted, it is clearly an indictment of IR( I mean, "blind fans irukkara varaikkum IR-ukku kavalai illai". Look at this statement impassionately (think you didnt make this statement) and tell me if it doesnt lead to "yes he will take advantage of it".

Secondly, I particularly addressed you because of the above reason - somehow, IMO, you dont seem to realise that you end up throwing flames on IR while aiming those at IR fans.(Kuri thappiddhu). If you cant see that now, I cant make you see that so it is up to you, really.

Till now, TISK hasnt made any inuendo on IR so I will not take it up with him.( I respect him for that - he is the direct affected party but till date, he hasnt made a single claim/allegation/inuendo at all which shows he is an evolved human being).
But you have,deliberately or otherwise, made a statement that is an inuendo so I would expect you to alteast clarify that
a)either you didnt intend it that way as an inuendo and that you dont believe that IR will take advantage and that it was just a reaction to thumburu or thops or whoever.

b) or if you did and do believe IR will take advantage, the back up reasons for that belief - come on, every claim you make here in this forum, you substantiate - why not this one?

Helping TISK and his co-sufferers is one thing - throwing inuendos is quite another

rajdes, TISK is a gentleman..we all can infer that. When he says good things about the music and talent of IR, but he is silent about his character/attitude, I am beginning to suspect.

When close friends and family moved away from IR (Bharathiraaja, Gangai Amaran, Mani Ratnam, Balachandar etc..), I stuck with IR since I felt IRs ego drove them away. I thought thats the only weakness in him. Now the fans are directly affected by money minded IR. I bought 5 CDs just to promote TIS but now he cheated his fans by under the table deal.

I have created a Yahoo group for people who donated money for TIS, but now would like to know how things are going with the TIS financing/marketing.
Lets see if there is a will, we can pursue legal action to make sure public money is not being for personal profiteering.

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Originally Posted by kiru

I have created a Yahoo group for people who donated money for TIS, but now would like to know how things are going with the TIS financing/marketing.
Lets see if there is a will, we can pursue legal action to make sure public money is not being for personal profiteering.

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I am talking from the business perspective.

Lets say IR is holding copyright for TIS in USA by himself/thru other. From business point of view what difference it makes to TIS-USA?

1. If IR along with his "other" partnership release TIS-CD in USA at the same time TIS-USA launched the CD,then TIS-USA would have been financially impacted - This didnt happen

2. If IR along with his "other" partnership release TIS-CD now/in future, it will have some impact to TIS-USA on a long run TIS will be an ever selling album. So far this didnt happen. So give the benefit of doubt to IR, because we are after all his fans!

3. If IR along with his "other" partnership release TIS-CD in other part of the world, it would have impact to Tamil maiyam (and hence TIS-USA, since TIS-USA funded majority of the money). Is it the case.

3.a TIS is being marketted by AgniMusic in Malaysia. Is this agreement between IR and Agni or TM and Agni? Who can answer this question

3.b. In UK and Canada, Indian edition of TIS (Welgate) is being sold. Who is marketting Indian edition of TIS in UK/USA. Is it TM or IR thru' his "other" partnership?

3.c Who is selling TIS in other tamil populated countries such as Srilanka, Middle East, France (believe me, Paris this is the hub of thiruttu vcd!)

One of these 3 (TM, TIS-USA, IR, Welgate which is telling that they only sold 35000 CDs in India) people has to respond. Unless one of them respond, there is no point for us to speculate.

I bought my Thiruvasagam CD in UK this week released by Ramiy Records which comes with buy one and get one free. The free CD is ThiruvaNamalai Ramanamaalai by IR.

This belief that TIS was possible only because of TIS-USA and the contribution of IR fans, is a myth that belongs to TFMPage forum. Anyone who disagrees, can you give me evidence to the contrary.

TM goofed up marketing and distribution plans. THey were short sighted and pleaded in this forum for plans and ideas for marketing which is pretty amateurish. It is good that after the initial goof up, the marketing and distribution now rests in the hands of more professional and shrewd man who seems to have taken up on himself to ensure its survival.

TISK is the first person who sowed the seeds of speculation with statements such as 'HE knows' as a two paise to the press reports and 'HE has done more than this'. His continued silence after his last posting which triggered this whole debate in this forum, is like 'killi vittu vedikai parkiradhu' madhiri.

Lets have some authentic information to back any claims. Otherwise let this remain an entertainment confined to this forum.

Starting an yahoo group !!?? for legal action? I am curious.

In Canada, Ayngaran was supposed to be distributing. But the Canadian store did not get the CDs for the longest time - actually I don't know even now if they have it. Every time I called them they kept saying that they will receive it soon from London.

I voluntered to be the tis-usa contact in Canada. I, together with some of my friends planned a release function for the local Tamil media in Toronto, but were discouraged from doing so by two factors:

1 - Within days of the release of the album, the Toronto market was flooded with Indian copies and pirate copies. Pirate copies were selling for as low as $5 Canadian. We felt these crooks would benefit from any promotion we had, becasue we did not have a proper distribution mechanism. None of us owned any stores or anything.

2 - When I talked to Ayngaran they could not confirm or deny that they were going to be the official distributers. So, we could not even have a promotion saying get your copies at Ayngaran. Besides they did not have the copies - atleast for a month after the release.

Through it all, I managed to sell a little over 100 copies through my personal contacts. To put this number into perspective, Toronto is home to atleast 250,000 Eelam Tamils many of whom are devout Saivites. There is also a large population of TN Tamils.

Halfway through this mess, my only purpose of continuing to be a part of this was to help a noble soul - TISK.

I am extremely disappointed and angry with the way this was botched up by whom ever was responcible for organizing the distribution. The more I talk to people, the more I think it is none other than IR himself.

As someone who vehemently supported this project from it's on set, I am also disappointed that I have lost the enthusiasm I had for this project and will never be a part of another similar venture. Optimism has given way to sceptisism.

I hope TM and TISK come out of this with their souls and bank accounts intact.

I also hope this experience does not interfere with my ability to enjoy the music of my favourite musician. My TIS cd has been collecting dust for about four weeks now, after being played every day since I received the copy. I hope it is a phase, and I come out of it.

ellaam iraivan arul.

Multinamatheyan

Guys( Including my good friend Kiru),

I guess we are all going a little overboard here. calling IR as " not a good human being" etc.. No-one has enough information or right to say that against IR for that matter any person.. You can criticize his work etc.. but you have no right to make personal remarks about his character.. As far as I know ( I have met IR once and spent almost 2 days with him in USA ) he could be a very nice person or a very bad person in character or anywhere in between depending on what your definition of ethic/character.. etc.. I do not know anything about him other than his MUSIC. So I will constrain my comments/opinions/criticisms within that domain.

So let's stop personal bashing here.. Please.

Also, First, a donation is what it is ..a donation. Period. Either you trust the person/group/organization and donate money for a cause.. or for your personal satisfaction .. But the basic premise is that "You do not expect anything in return ". If you do , then it is not a donation anymore.. it's an investment..

Next, how the Donation money gets spent .. for the cause that the donation was made.. or misused.. i did not see anyone including TISK ( TISK is the one of the very very few people here in this DF who know what really happened and has worked Hard in helping with the TIS project ) have not alleged misuse of funds. All the donations were spent on making the TIS ( the various aspects like recording, mastering , etc..)

Second. there are discussions on who is sharing the revenue ( not profit ).. Now that is logistics.. Tamil Maiyyam and IR ( and his musical trust ) are the administrators/partners of this project. So if there is a problem between them let them sort it out.. who are we to take sides. If TM did not have good contract in place with IR or other agencies then that is their shortcoming.. OR if IR was not smart enough to work the legal logistics then it is his problem. WHo are we to make comments/criticise either of them.

You might say, i donated money and expected it the money to be used for TiS and not for some personal expenses.. That is true.. Like i said before, no-one is complaining about the mis-use of funds.. Like IR used the money for himself and had a good time in Hungary. TM swindled/mis-used the money etc.. The money was meant to create TIS - and that was exactly happened.. So deal over. Move on.

If you think the donation was mis-used, please do not donate the next time they come asking for money. That's it.. When you donate money to Katrina Relief , Tsunami relief do you care to go ask for the accounts of those relief agencies..? No .. Why.. b;cos you trust that they will make good use of the money for the purpose intended.. if you are not satisfied with their work you just do not give money next time.. that's all.. Asking for IR to come out with a personal statement etc are all way too much..especially when you are not involved in any way.

Infact, When I donated $500 to TiS-USA for TIS. I did not expect anything.. ( as a matter of fact i was expecting a complimentary copy of TiS) in return. The reasons for donating it are

1. Love for IR's music
2. Love for Religion/God/Thiruvasagam
3. Love for Tamil.

After donating money in mid last year, i checked TiS-USA page almost everyday to check the progress of TiS and once the cd came out, i bought a few and have enjoyed it thoroughly. So i got more than what i expected for. And I am enjoying it every day or weekl. and infact I am thinking that every extra listen is like a bonus..Expecially considering all the junk CD's that we pay $9.99 and do not listen to more than once.

I would have cared anything about TiS only if the TIS was not released. I would not even have cared if i did not like the songs as there was no guarantee that i would like the songs..

OK. we are done with Donors.

Finally, let's look at the people who spent their personal time, efforts and took loans to help TIS. I do not know what exactly happened so i may be totally off here...

First if they gave the borrowed money to TIS project as a donation then it's not TiS's problems..Thanakku minchiyathuthaan thaanam. So if you borrowed money to make a donation.. The intentions are very good, Efforts appreciated.. All IR fans are thankful .. but that does'nt mean you can expect the donations to be paid back, or some accounting P&L sent to you every month.. That's not right.. Even UNICEF/UN the biggest organizations that get millions in donations do not do that..

Next, if anyone borrowed and got personal loans and spent the money on TiS Promotion/efforts , then again your intentions are great, you probably have the same love for IR's Music/Tamil/God/Thiruvasagam etc and
efforts are appreciated.. but if you are expecting something monetary in return.. Sorry, I think I do not sympathize with you.

Finally, if you borrowed money and in turn, gave the money to TiS-project as a loan, then you can do whatever you are legally permitted to do. How did TiS borrow the money - against what security. What was the interest rate. what are the penalties.. and you can go to court either here in USA or in India.

So what is the confusion here .??? Why are we arguing this..instead of talking about the album... Why do we care who has the rights to this CD. who made so much money... B'cos we donated some $$?? I do not see any logic here.

The problem arises, only when you helped TiS team/project for anything other than listening to and enjoy the Album.


Cheers
MSK

MSK, good post...the funniest part is total silence from all those directly connected with the business...

1. All that the DF'ers are jumping about is a website's gossip (ezhudhina AL pEr `vamban')...`neruppillAmal pugaiyumA' is probably the approach but deliberate efforts to defame a popular person are not uncommon in today's world...even if there's some substance to the allegation, how much of the published matter is correct and what way it proves that IR is at wrong or wellgate did fraud?...inefficiency and fraud are not the same...All the discussions based on that article are thus in vain, unless there is corroborative info from other quarters...(I know personally that at times UTTER LIES are used to publish propaganda by even JV, from the reputed AV group on the name `investigative journalism')...

Based on some postings of TISK and that of some DFers close to TIS-USA, it can be inferred that they have financial commitments that have to be mended through sales commissions, which is obviously unfair, though no one has directly alleged IR for this peculiar condition...why it could even possibly be a mess-up by TM...Once again, if they had to scramble through finacing to loan to TM even initially (i.e. for the making of the album), how can they be in a position to once again raise money for buying the 8K CD's is another question...(even on credit is not fair, however, and they should not accept to that condition...money loaned should be returned as money unless they have agreed otherwise beforehand)...

Sueing? What are the legal grounds? If there are, definitely can be and should be done...but who can tell whether there are...all here are just speculating...