thiruvasakam in symphony

Kr says, ' I had mentioned targeting music departments/faculty members and religion departments in universities in the US. '


Dear Kr,

We can send the music departments complementary copy of TIS. If the faculty like it, if TIS is relevant to the subject they are teaching, then they may mention as 'suggested listening'! that's my understanding!!

We can request our local libraries to bring TIS for us(public) to access! We need to fill some forms!! TISK, you can check the details from your local library!

TISK,

Good One.

( I am assuming u are Dr.Sankar Kumar or an office bearer of TiS-US ). Anyway your last post shows a lot of maturity/patience and focus on solving the problem rather than trying to point fingers.

I am sure most DF'ers here ( atleast the ones that participate in IR's forums that i know of ) are professionals and sincere in their words. There are very few people who argue madly as a IR fanatic or argue just for the sake of proving that they are not as fanatic as the others and using the opportunity to negative comments against others like IR. Your half baked comments like " he did more than this " etc shows just your venting and frustartion after you have done all the hard work.. It has not definitely helped the problem you have in your hand.

If i were you or to suggest anything, I would say write to the TiS-USA/TM supporters. You have their emails. You have the database of who donated/contributed their time and efforts etc to a cause spearheaded by you. So write to them the facts and seek their help/support/guidance on how to resolve the issues ! Many of these hubbers are professionals working in various fields and have extensive experience and contacts. Instead of that your approach seems to be just venting your frustration and indirectly pointing fingers in a public forum. Not very professional/Systematic. Your letter from TM ( Fr.Jegath ) also seems like a desperate/Childish measure to me. ( I was surprised that Fr. not only being a good person but also a religious person even agreed to doing that .. The basic tenet of Thiruvasagam ( Father seems to be very prolific in Tamil Literature. ) is " Thaame Thamakku vithi Vagaiyum ".
It means " Theethum Nandrum pirar thara Vaara ".. I am sure you understand that.

Also, i am not sure if TiS and TM plan to work on more similar projects in the future! ( Father in his interview in the Launch DVD stated something like doing Puranaanuru /Thirukural etc.. sounds exciting ). If so , you do not want to burn bridges now - either with IR or any one else involved in this. Instead of taking this as " Pothumda Saami " or cover my debts and move on " you might want to take a positive, colloborative approach.. You have now learned a lot of valuable lessson.. The important being " Good intentions alone and blind faith/trust alone do not help" - ( Remember the Thirukural - " Ithanai ivanal ivan ..." ).

Next time keep up your good intentions but at the same time have clear /formal / legal plan. Register your supporters/donors as TiS-US Members. maintain a good rapport with them not only during your good times but during your challenging times as well. For ex. There was no official email to the donors saying the project is completed and scheduled to release. I had to check the website to get the update.. All these go a long way in buidling a truly great organization that is not only successful but very professional as well. The same goes to TM as well.

Anyways, I am glad you are turning in the right direction. I wish you all the best in your efforts and I am sure sooner or later you will feel happy that your efforts are bearing fruits. Look at the big picture. Your life does not end with TiS-US burning fingers on this maiden project. There is a chinese proverb - The greatest mistake one can make is not making one at all ( very similar to " Failures are the stepping stones !! ).

Cheers
MSK

"Your half baked comments like " he did more than this " etc shows just your venting and frustartion after you have done all the hard work.. It has not definitely helped the problem you have in your hand."


"Not very professional/Systematic. Your letter from TM ( Fr.Jegath ) also seems like a desperate/Childish measure to me."

"There was no official email to the donors saying the project is completed and scheduled to release. I had to check the website to get the update.."

"Instead of that your approach seems to be just venting your frustration and indirectly pointing fingers in a public forum"


See, this is what I am talking about. In the pretense of writing supporting posts for TISK, fanatics like MSK are taking jabs and potshots at TIS-USA all the time. Discerning readers will see through their shallow veil. And this is the same guy who a few posts back wanted everyone to ignore this and move on. And now he is back giving "advice" on this matter.

A scoop, breaking news.. in summary

Initial contract between TM and IR in 2002: Both will jointly produce and hold ownership to TIS in all its forms (speculative then itself!!). TM will invest money. IR will compose. The profits if any will go towards starting music institutions. There was a clause that both parties have to agree on distribution details.

2-3 years later,

TM campaigned nationally and internationally for donations. Yahoo group got into action and tried to mobilise funds. Not enough. TIS-USA came in. Active campaigning was launched in US. Lukewarm response from Europe. TIS-USA attained significance. It faced barriers in the form of lack of credibility. IR was asked to visit US and add credibility to the project, since till then there was no word from him about the project. He made couple of speeches stating his wish and presented it as his dream.

By mid 2004 just enough funds and logistics for Tamil version with English lyrics which was completed by the end of 2004. Decision was made to release TIS in its present form and negotiations for distribution contracts commenced.

Sony was approached. Sony asked for sufficient pre-release orders to ascertain marketability. Insufficient pre-release orders and Sony was not interested. 4 months passed. Tsunami diverted attention of people. Charity was less forthcoming for TIS obviously in the aftermath of tsunami.

Saregama made an initial agreement to distribute and negotiations were on to work out the details. Release dates were fixed. Some corporate sponsorship deals came along. TM was able to recover major part of its debts. TM's confidence in TIS had by then waned and was not hoping for anything more and was only keen to break even and reap on the credibility of having helped make TIS. Whatever Saregama offered was good enough. IR decided otherwise and rejected the deal.

The clause in the original contract came in handy for IR. His agreement was necessary for any contract that TM made over TIS!!! Major fallout between TM and IR. IR threatened to withold release of TIS ('duress'). Time was running out since the release date was fixed. The deadlock had to be sorted out between IR and TM. Both sit down again on the negotiation table to work out a compromise. TM surrenders the original contract.

The new contract: IR will hold the intellectual copyright for TIS-current version. TM will continue to hold joint ownership with IR for its future distribution in India only. The music company which will distribute TIS in its current version in India will be chosen by IR. TM will be given CDs to recover their financial investments and the corporate sponsorships will go to TM. TIS in its current form will be jointly presented so that TM is recognised for its efforts. TM will have no say in the contract negotiations of distributors abroad. A delay in distribution by any music company will be delayed in USA so that TM has sufficient time to recover its investments from USA. (apparently IR was supremely confident of his idea of fair play and maintained his smiling cordiality through out while TM just couldn't break through the wall)

Above are only key points more interesting clause in the contract which will become evident in the near future.

The result: TM agrees to the new contract though cries foul privately. Both parties agree to present cordiality in public prior to its release since it is in their best interest. TM/TIS-USA launches a fresh campaign asking donors to buy CDs in bulk not just for their own listening but also as a year long gifts to their friends. Campaigns for people to pre-order giving the impression that people may not get the CD otherwise and also promises same day delivery of its release. Making of TIS DVD confusion sets in. Yahoo Group works with TM in TN and manages the stalls for sales. Surprise surprise - TM runs out of CDs delivered by the music company within couple of days of release. No such luck to TIS-USA which struggles to empty its stocks.

more later.....

Friends, Any of you member of Bay Area telgu association? Large telgu population in Bay Area,CA! Most of them will definetely be exposed to IR's music! Is there an opportunity for TIS-sales there????????
http://www.bata.org/index.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vijayr

"Your half baked comments like " he did more than this " etc shows just your venting and frustartion after you have done all the hard work.. It has not definitely helped the problem you have in your hand."


"Not very professional/Systematic. Your letter from TM ( Fr.Jegath ) also seems like a desperate/Childish measure to me."

"There was no official email to the donors saying the project is completed and scheduled to release. I had to check the website to get the update.."

"Instead of that your approach seems to be just venting your frustration and indirectly pointing fingers in a public forum"


See, this is what I am talking about. In the pretense of writing supporting posts for TISK, fanatics like MSK are taking jabs and potshots at TIS-USA all the time. Discerning readers will see through their shallow veil. And this is the same guy who a few posts back wanted everyone to ignore this and move on. And now he is back giving "advice" on this matter.

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Vijayr, this is getting tiresome. Your posts seem to be one flamebait after another. If you have anything constructive to say about this issue, please do. Otherwise, YES, we get your point.

Now, can you wait until the other side of the issue comes out?

ayyo dude...don't give a lead for another argument :-(

Rajasaranam,

There was post from you which is obviously now lying under so many other posts. You sarcastically said that other group members can have their party now...or some thing meaning what was quite obvious from your post.

I would like to mention that I am a ARR fan and I almost listen to only his music some 95% of time. I adore him and I consider him as a genius...have no doubt about that. But that does not make my vision towards IR blurred. I am speaking on belaf of 100s of ARR fans like me who still have high regards of IR. (ARR fans..like maddy..I hope you agree to me)

You have to belive that I was one amoung the very very few who bought TIS immediately from MW upon its arival. I do not regret for that. I am pained by reading the matters here and I have een posted here asking fans to look IR music and his personal attitudes as two different things mutually exclusive of each other.

In your whole discussions about this issue since it started, can you find a single post from any ARR fan ridiculing IR or the effort or TIS for the matter. ? Can you find any sarcastic ridicule or provocationg post from any of my group guys on IR on this issue.? Any any of ARR group member taken any sides in this?

Imagine this hypothetical case. Replace IR with ARR and TIS with any other album of ARR which had created huge prerelease hype and later upon release received a lukeworm response...would you or many of the regular trouble makers from your side abstained from making fun of ARR in his treads???...Imagine..

I could clearly see that you meant only ARR group members like Maddy etc in your post, asking them to have party..in a sence asking them to come and spoil the thread...but I could also understand that you did not mean it in the form of hurting anybody...or say demean anybody. What I could infer is that your impression about ARR fans added with the troubled water in the IR's pond made you come out with that one liner automatically.

Thru this long post I just want to set things right and say that ARR fans are not like what you think or presume...We are a mature lot and are REAL MUSIC FANS

Sorry if this post has hurt anybody..it is not intended that way.

Well, it is tough to spend time on all responses. I will stick to my appraisal of Fr Jegath's letter. Now, who am I to do that? Morally speaking, with my negligible contribution towards TiS, you guys could pounce and ask that question. However, we have finally descended to character-analysis of public persons so I guess I can post my 2 cents:(which (literally) probably was my contribution anyway!):
1. It is clear that IR held up signing the agreement or forcing his agreement on Fr Jegath and TM.
2. Why did the latter take that? According to people who know him and TiSK, it is because of total benevolence and a desire to see IR's monumental work released. We have to believe that - though personally I do believe that each person in the chain had their own personal agenda(if it was no more rebirths for IR, I am sure Fr Jegath had some similar gratification as motivation(dotn punce on me and say christianity doesnt believe in rebirth - it could be some other spiritual reason - and TiSK sure has a personal reason(maybe his personal desire to make something worthwhile of his life - I, for one, for all my cynical nature would sure fantasise about sacrificing as much as TiSK to achieve something as monumental as his efforts have achieved though living that out would be a nightmare. )
3. It is clear that Fr Jegath, TM and TIS-USA have had the gratification of playing their part in something as 'significant' as TiS - which is clear from Fr Jegath's latter as well.
4. Having doen all this, now they are realising that they are 10 feet deep in water.
5. I am sorry, this was predicted way back in 2003 in this very forum, in this very thread. At that time, it was just someone playing the devil's advocate. There were clear exhortations( from what looked like mischief makers then) that "What will you do if IR cheated you in this manner- yes, exactly the manner that has been described?"
6. I am sorry to say those people were dubbed as mischief mongers and were derided as people out to defame IR and look what it has led to?
Personally, my heart goes out, not even for TM but for Mr TiSK, who right before my eyes, has been hit below the belt.
7. And I am sorry, Fr Jegath conveniently passing the buck to IR to blame for TIS-USA's fate doesnt get much sympathy from me. Who is he to forgive IR? .If anyone, it is TiSK who has the moral uphand in all this. If Fr Jegath is sincere about his obligation to TiSK and TIS-USA, he has to make this issue public, raise questions about IR's morality in Tamil Fora (very easy to do, just pass on this site's address to Kumudam or Vikatan - they would be happy to lap it up and out of all that churning, we can hope that truth will come out).
Why, gnani and his cohorts in small magazines would be more than willing to rake the issue up.
If he is not going to do that for TiSK, I am sorry, I dont have any sympathy for him.
8.(sorry I lost track of numbers!)By pre-emptively forgiving IR, Fr Jegath has given no chance for the truth to emerge.

I will not take Fr Jegath's words as the last words on this controversy - someone has to accuse IR in the public and force him to react. If he does so, based on his reactions, I will condemn/condone him. Till then for a truly objective observer (ie) who has no sort of conscious/unconscious bias for either party(no faith component - be it "IR can do no wrong" faith of the IR fanatic or "Fr Jegath cannot do any wrong" faith of the Fr Jegath acquaintances) judgement will be reserved.


vijay, I have to reply to you. Based on what you said, you are justiffied in suspecting IR and raising questions on his morality. Now that you have explained, it definitely makes sense. But you have to understand that it wasnt obvious at all before this explanation so this explanation was necessary - this is what I meant last time when I asked you to clarify - not that you should clarify your position to everyone but any objeective poster should, shouldnt he?)
Also, none of what you said as reasons are strong enough for me (simply because I stand in the middle - I dont know either TiSK or Fr Jegath or IR personally to conclude strongly on their motives - I can only go by information available on public domain and not disputed by either party - simply put, you know more than I know but you(when I say you, I include everyone from TM and TIS-USA) havent shared it with us except as 'hints' and 'inuendo's

I am sorry to say TiSK Sir , while this will definitely get you support from people who you know and your moral courage and righteousness, I would like you to consider the point of view of the average detached observer(and it is very important that you do because in terms of legal or ethical support like boycotting IR's future albums you need support from people like me - when I say this you, TISK personally might not need this but I guess quite a few IR fans like Kiru have mentioned this as a course to take in the future) - and we will not be satisfied with forgiveness and that sort of thing. I will support you full-heartedly if you take legal action over IR or atleast work to expose his wrong-doings in the public domain. I, here, again, dont take it as arrogant I, rajdes. I think I am articulating for hundreds like me here who see it from a different point of view.

It is not very clear from Fr.Gaspar's letter whether he or TM espoused the cause of TISK's huge personal loan, by making IR aware of this before handing over the funds to IR or is IR blisfully under the impression that whatever money that was raised by TIS-USA was by voluntary contribution and hence he had mo moral obligation to compensate TISK ?
Questions!!!