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If Kavin's sequence of events are facts:
a. IR did not have an issue with the original terms of the agreement between TM & IR until to the point negotiations were taking place with Sony & Saregama.
b. The diagreement came in when TM wanted to settle with Saregama at terms which TM thought would be sufficient to pay off their debts but IR felt was beneath his perceived value of the work.
c. Therefore he rengotiated the deal with TM to get the sole power to negotiate but felt that he was being fair to TM and TIS-US by providing CDs to them for use earlier than others for those territories at a discounted price.
Before coming to the judegement of finding IR guilty, you have to take into account the fact that IR may have believed that TIS could have been undersold to its value based on the financial pressures building on TM and hence decided to renegotiate the deal.
By giving market exclusivity during the launch phase and providing 8000 CDs at a discount price (about $5 was mentioned here before compared to a selling price of $15), he could have felt that TIS-US could make out $80,000 in profits in lieu of the loans. This may be a honest misassessment of demand and pride in his work that would have made IR not wanting to undersell to its value and have no evil motives at all.
If money making was his motive, he would not have split with many top producers/directiors based on principles. He would be a media hog rather than shy away from the media. He would not be politically incorrect if money making was his objective in life.
I wish when TM had renegotiated, they had asked Wellgate to repay the loans from the profits.
Before anyone screams, read the first sentence - this is all if the sequence of events stated by Kavin are indeed facts -
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#c - is not a good reason to renegotiate the contract. Since his consent was required for any deal, IR could have always negotiated a better contract with anybody, within the boundaries of the original contract. In Kavin's, account, only TIS was to recover its contribution by selling CDs. TM had to recover its contribution from royalties from the distributor. If the distributor agreed upon is one solely favored by IR, there are reasons for suspicion of a kickback.
To play the devil's advocate, the reason for renegotiation of contract, is for IR to regain control of the product and thereby profit from it. I hope, whenever, Kavin says, IR holds the copyright, he is referring to the non-profit IR foundation. If not, this itself, is a clear misuse of public money for personal profits (albeit with TM and TIS-USA also being responsible for abetting it).
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vijay, I understand that you are irked by the attitude of IR fanatics. But again I cannot agree that that could be a reason to tarnish IR - admittedly, your stance is based on what you have heard about IR's behaviour in the past and knowledge of some details about this transaction, presumably because you know something from TiSK or TM. But
again and again and again, questions are being swept under the carpet - it is just like "Okay we financed this. IR cheated us. Believe us. Have blind faith in us and support us". It will not work like that. Even someone who knows TiSK as hazily as I know and is inclined to help might not come forward with this sort of attitude from you. I mean, if IR fanatics' reaction irks you enough for you to deliberately post extreme views on IR, your deliberate extreme views on IR could also evaporate some of the potential money makers for TiSK. I hope you understand that.
Besides, you may have enough faith in TiSK and TM so you might accept that IR has cheated just because TiSK and TM say so. Sorry the general public need not subscribe to that - and in doing that he is in the same moral plane as you - his blind faith is in IR , your open-eyed faith is in TiSK. In my view, both stances are the same. You dont have proof that IR has cheated but you have already taken a 90% view that he cheated. By the same token, blasphemous as it might seem here, the IR fanatic has a right to pre-judge that TiSK and TM are not telling the whole truth.
I can only post irregularly because of the nature of my work and my commitments. If you wont read through my posts and stick to your opinion, what can I say - you just dont want to hear the other side of the view, do you? Upto you, one side of the picture never ever gives the whole picture -Hthat is why I am asking you guys to give the full picture offrom your POV, becaue I want to know the full picture not just the picture painted by IR fanatics - but unfortunately, I am only getting one-sided opinions and judgements not cold facts either from you or TiSK or anyone.
Also, TiSK said 2 parties have already responded and only IR hasnt responded. This is not true. TiSK and Fr Gasper have only hinted. Their response is as misted in mystery as IR's non-response.
Sorry, there is more to this than meets your eye or mine. I am waiting for the truth but I think you have already made a judgement that IR is wrong, which may be right but anyone who is condemning IR now, even on the basis of their faith in Fr. or TiSK are not being objective. This includes you.
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One curious thing is people who express faith in IR and say that "IR cannot ever be wrong" are blind fanatics (ofcourse they are - this part is indisputable)
But people who express faith in Fr Gasper and believe that he can never do wrong are not? Why should I not question his motives and ask for proof from you guys instead of going by blind faith on him? Ofcourse, he might be a saint but why should I believe that based on *blind faith*? Why am I a blind IR fanatic if I ask for proof?Che, naan proof kooda ketkalai allegation dhaan kettaen.
*Why?*
Unga logic padi, consider this:
IR has worked on some social causes before and donated and performed concerts for social causes before so can anyone who worked with him during that time and lost touch with him later and thus, saw only the good side of IR preclude the possibility of IR ever doing wrong ever? Appadi solravar blind fanatic-aa? Sensible person-aa? Please choose only one out of the two answers.
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kiru, now we are beginning to talk. So there is a prima-facie case and there is a plausible motive for IR to take kick-backs. Good.Agreed. Is this what happened? Do we have enough reason to conduct a court-martial of IR in our hearts and hang him(ie) stop listening to him for his 'crimes' based on this plausibility?
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kiru, what bothers me is this forgiveness angle. This is not at all fair. In Christianity, paava mannippu is kept confidential, right?. Correct me I am wrong, it is given if the paavi confesses to his faults, and the assumption is that that implies he feels sorry for it. Correct-aa? Ippadi, public-aa IR-kku, IR ketkamaleye Paava Mannippu edharku? Dont take it as a religious slur, I just want to understand one particular aspect of this issue. I will withdraw this post if it offends anyone.
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curiouser and curiouser....
TiS seems resigned to have a permanent cloud of dust around it. As TM and Tis-USA have decided to get on with it, I dont envisage any conclusive end to the speculations. And IR being very non-communicative with his projects(right from 1993 symphony days and much before), it is unlikely he will ever come public to clear his name. Which is not going to happen as TM/TiS-USA are not going to take up the issue with him, as doing that will only vitiate the aura around a great personality. Even if they decide to battle and win, it will only be a pyrrhic victory! But the finger of suspicion will always point to IR since his enigmatic qualities are well known to the public. You dont even have to be a critic to think in this direction.
Besides, everything is in the eyes of the beholder. Now it is well known that IR hated the press. Going through the few press interviews he gave, the IR fan(including myself) would feel the scribe was trying hard to get IR to mouth some slander or arrogant statement. But honestly, even as a staunch IR fan, putting myself in the journalist's shoes, I would feel reasonably irritated with IR's monologues and one-line answers. I would definitely feel interviewing a guy like IR would be a big nightmare and hate such an assignment.
If IR's music means more than anything else, you would demolish every contrary notion and hand over the benefit of nightmare to IR. If you are a fair minded fan, despite your addiction to his works, you will definitely feel that TM/TiS-USA got a raw deal.(Now this of course is as per MY DEFINITION of fair!). Since IR is the hub of this project, you will feel IR can do anything and get away unscathed, since TM and TiS-USA are just newbies to the trade.
rajdes, dont analyse too hard to get the context of FJG's "manippu" statement - the answer lies in your earlier statement itself - FJG need not be a saint coz of his designation - If what he says and does is coz of his beliefs, then he would not have been involved in TiS nor have been an LTTE sympathiser as he is well known.
There are absolutely no absolutely in this world, everything is gray!
warm regards
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[A Rajiv-cum-Prabhakaran fan :) ]
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errata:
benefit of nightmare = benefit of doubt
absolutely no absolutely = absolutely no absolutes
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oh!prabhu, no problems. I will not lose a day's sleep if it turns out that IR is a cheat. In the sense that I am not linking my emotional well-being to IR's honesty :-). Ofcourse, one's heart will then go out for TM and TIS-USA. That is a different story.
My point is
1) It is clearly established and repeated that blind IR fanaticism is well, stupid. Anyone believing that IR is absolutely innocent and can never do wrong at all is stupid and a fanatic. Fair enough.
2) Will not the same norm apply to blind faith on the other side? How does slandering IR balance out the blind statements made by fanatics of IR? Fine, slander to your heart's content but for someone to be taken seriously with their slander, they've got to at the least make a definitive allegation. Summa Person X is honest according to my evaluation so IR is bound to be wrong-nu logic sonna sirippu dhaan varudhu.There is no difference between blind IR fanatics and them. I would put both on the same moral/ethical plane.
I am irritated for the same reason vijay got irritated with statements like "IR can never do wrong" or "let's move on - yaaru cheat panna enna". By the same token, "Hint! Hint!IR thappu panninaru namma mannichuduvom" appadinnu mottaiya sonna, in my books that is slander;slur;blasphemy;inuendo. I wont hesitate to decry that sort of statement.
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ir interview panradhy nightmare-na pannadheenga. It sells copies-nu dhaane you are going to him for quotes. Appo, suffer the agony. Magazine-oda labathukkaga dhane avar kitta poranga. Sondha labathukkaga dhaane avaru kitta interview-kku poranga.
Namma ellam perfect humans, avaru mattum dagul party, lollu party, sondha laabathukkaga enna vena pannuvarnu cycle gap-la auto vitta eppadi? 90% of humans, including many who take the moral high horse here are opportunists who will do anything for personal profit(that profit need not be material - it could be some spiritual high/popularity/furthering one's social agenda etc). And ellam aana appuram, we always blame others for our plight - namma side-um thappunnu vothukkave mattom. Adhu dhaan inge nadakkudhu.
IR dagul party-na, indha vishayathula, adhula paadhi dagul-ukku responsibility-avadhu mathavangalaiyum serum. Mothama, IR dagul-nala fans ellam emathapattangannu sonna, sirippu dhaan varudhu
Seri vidunga, enakku enna. Ethai thinna enna. Pitham thelinja sari. Fullstop.
