An issue

Sandeep, murder has been justified the world over under particular circumstances. What are wars, police "encounters", capital punishment and so on?

Answers to the list:
a. Very childish, illogical argument. Priorities in relevant situations need to be studied with discretion.

b.It is in fairness to the wronged woman. She cannot be forced to bear the consequences of what was not her doing/option. It will be adding insult to injury.

c.It will be too late to wait for the "abnormal" foetus to decide its fate, if at all it will be in a condition/maturity to assess the problem. All troubles bebest nipped in the bud. Yes it is a painful problem to rear an abnormal child. Spartans didn't hesitate to do away with babies lacking physical stamina!

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Can Law teach responsibility? Legalizing something or alternatively, making something illegal can only impose controls over our actions, but they can do nothing to instill any responsibility in us. And unless we learn that responsibility, we don't really become civilized.

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If by default we are all responsible, honest whatever not citizens, we do not need the law to govern us at all! :wink:

In a civilised world government & laws are necessary for peaceful, honourable & progressive living. Legislative changes must be sympathetically, sensibly introduced to ensure the smooth runnin of the machinery, a sort of lubrication. The changing tendencies, lifestyle patterns & technological advancement play a role in deciding the necessary legislative changes. Never can ethics be compromised in any decision. The sense of values, respect for human integrity must be upheld.

Law/Govt. can control only legal actions in ne society, they unftly cannot impose/regulate morality in said society! :(
So the latter rests in the hands of the society alone, which individuals hav to realise. Even in most of the 'developed' countries, law & order is maintained very well but morality on part of individuals, on the contrary, is on the lax!

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Originally Posted by Sandeep

Murder, for whatever reason, is still punishable by law, and the anti-abortionists use the same logic to apply for this as well.

a) Pregnency dangerous to mother - Murder for the sake of saving another life (and at that without getting permission for the person dieing) is immoral. As you would know a doctor will not take the husbands single kidney (means he doesnt have two kidneys) to save his wives life, even if the husband agrees.

As of now doctors are allowed to kill the feotus against the mothers wish if thats the only way to save mothers life. But with this new aproach even with mothers consent you cannot.

b) Rape - How do you Murder someone because others raped or got raped.

c) Abnormality - Its for the person who has the abnormality to decide and not his mother or father.

The moment you give full human status to the foetus (Nov's pictured where very convinsing) you are infact giving "it" (or "him/her") all legal and moral rights of a full human being and citizen. The earlier examples are just a precursur to the enormace adverse impact that decision will have.

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Sandeep: Your argument has too many holes.

Killing in self-defence is allowed. If a pregnancy is injurious to the mother, then I'd say abortion in such a case is like self-defence. Killing to protect the mother.

As for b and C, you seem to think the foetus has an independent existence!!! Your logic is all valid if the foetus can have survive without the mother. But since it is dependent on the mother, it becomes subject to the mother!

How cruel it is to expect a woman to bear a child that is due to a rape! How cruel it is to expect a woman to bear a child that is medically known to be born with mental/physical abnormalities!

I am sad to say, your arugments may sound logical, Sandeep, but they also sound heartless!

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

Sandeep: Your argument has too many holes.

Killing in self-defence is allowed. If a pregnancy is injurious to the mother, then I'd say abortion in such a case is like self-defence. Killing to protect the mother.

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Accepted.

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

As for b and C, you seem to think the foetus has an independent existence!!! Your logic is all valid if the foetus can have survive without the mother. But since it is dependent on the mother, it becomes subject to the mother!

How cruel it is to expect a woman to bear a child that is due to a rape! How cruel it is to expect a woman to bear a child that is medically known to be born with mental/physical abnormalities!

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Exactly

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

I am sad to say, your arugments may sound logical, Sandeep, but they also sound heartless!

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Couldnt help it.

Why opposing Abortion on basis of the rights/morality, giving the foetus a full human character, and them conveniently overlooking the very same based on "priority" and "particular circumstances".

The foetus needs to be seen as a part of the Mother and the rights and responcibilties of the foetus need to be bestoned on the Mother

omg ..people have so much to say about this ............

From today’s newspapers:

Most NRIs prefer surrogate mothers from India as it is cheaper and easier to find one. An agency abroad may charge between $30,000 and #15,000 for the surrogate mother. In India, the couple just needs to clear medical bills and pay Rs.1 lakh to the mother.

….A working mother of two children,”I came to know about surrogacy through another surrogate mother. Initially, I had a tough time convincing my husband to shift out of the joint family. However, he agreed as the fee was quite an incentive.”

In another case, three sisters and their sister-in-law have taken to surrogacy as a means of enhancing their living standards. “My mother-in-law suggested surrogacy to me. We needed to buy a good house for the family,” says one of the sisters. Three months back, the sister-in-law became a surrogate mother to twins. Another sister has kept the fact hidden from her joint family. “Only my husband knows about it. I feel it is noble as it will bring happiness into a couple’s life,” says she who is working in a kindergarten and is a mother of two children.

So it looks like even capacity of becoming a mother has become a means of making money these days!
Btw, one thing tho- I first thot the babies given birth by surrogate mothers r all test-tube babies.....but I understand they instead required to actually get pregnant (altho by artificial insemination) & give birth to the baby? Y wud they hav to udnergo tat when test-tube babies r a legally accepted alternative?

"So it looks like even capacity of becoming a mother has become a means of making money these days!"> Yes, a tragic truth, it seems!

In commercial in-vitro fertilisation (IVF) surrogacy the egg of the biological mother is fertilised with sperms of the father in a test tube. The embryo is then transferred into the uterus of the surrogate mother.