Ramayana - Another Great Epic

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Dear Mr. "viggop"

// I think Ashoka forest is in Lanka?Sita was put in imprisonment there...//

Yes. That place is in the forest adjacent to NUVARELIA in Srilanka.. which is the Pilgrim-centre for the Hindu-Tourists to that Country.

One Specific Asoka-Tree there, is identified as the one where Seetha-Devi was made to sit under.

That Tree is said to be of certain peculiar phenomena, unusual in the Botanical History in the World.

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First of all, is the Asoka Tree a long-lived tree? So long-lived that it could have actually survived the many thousand years said to have elapsed since the times of the Ramayana? That the same tree under which Sita sat is still surviving? :roll:

I personally wouldn't be too surprised if it is indeed statements/beleifs like these that expose us up for ridicule, and seriously undermine even what good really lies buried deep down a hundred such stories and myths!!

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

One Specific Asoka-Tree there, is identified as the one where Seetha-Devi was made to sit under.

That Tree is said to be of certain peculiar phenomena, unusual in the Botanical History in the World.

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Dear Mr. Sudhaama,
Again and Again, you are proving that you love to create and spread myth. Most of your stories are far from logical and do not follow any kind of proven science including botany. If you continue your story telling process in the same line, no opponent orguments are required to falsify your claims. You are doing yourself.

Please go ahead creating/spreading new stories (horoscope for lion, Lake physically protected by Ram/Lakshman in 20th Century, facts or miserable stories of non-believers of astrology. etc etc...) and reduce the efforts of others who doesn't belive in such supernaturals

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Originally Posted by viggop

Idiappam Sir
Is there a photo online of this tree?i want to see how it looks like.

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Do a google image on the botanical name of Ashoka, Saraca indica.

Take a look at these page as well:
http://toptropicals.com/cgi-bin/gard...=Saraca_indica

"Sudhaama"

// Yes. That place is in the forest adjacent to NUVARELIA in Srilanka.. which is the Pilgrim-centre for the Hindu-Tourists to that Country.

One Specific Asoka-Tree there, is identified as the one where Seetha-Devi was made to sit under.

That Tree is said to be of certain peculiar phenomena, unusual in the Botanical History in the World.//

The correct Spelling of the Town- Name : NUWARA-ELIYA....

.... near KANDY in Srilanka....

On the Strange-Phenomena, I pointed out...I am not interested to enter into disputes with anybody on the Veracity of my Statement.

What I have read and heard about,...I pass on here to others... as INFORMATION...

If somebody proves it wrong ... Well... I will correct my knowledge accordingly.

But my several dignitary- friends have confirmed such information which I had read earlier, since published in Books and Magazines....

So I am unable to ignore it nor consider it lightly as Dubious.... or Lose-talk.... but RELIABLE,.

I wish any Srilankan who has seen it and is capable to discuss about in detail...

... I welcome to reply on this Question.... Yes .. any Srilankan here please.

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What I have read and heard about,...I pass on here to others... as INFORMATION...

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Epporul yaar yaar vai kaetpinum apporul meipporul kanbadharivu

I hope I have got that right! Idiappam, FSG, please correct me if I am wrong.

Rama did not kill Ravana immediatly.He defeated ravana,sent him messenger after messenger to reform.He did not listen to anything.Kamban writes about one such incidence.

Perhaps "Indru poi nalai vaa" is another famous dialogue of kamban.It even became the title of a movie.But the correct verse is not "Indru poi nalai vaa".It is "Indru poi nalai porukku vaa"

Meaning "Go today and come back again tomorrow for war"

Ravana fought with Rama.He lost all his weapons,army and stood weaponless against Lord Rama.Rama did not kill him.With love and affection in his voice Rama said "Al ayya,unakku amaindhana marutham araindha poolai ayina kandalai,endru poi porukku nalai vaa' ena nalginan"

(Rama never wanted to kill Ravana.He did not see Ravana as his enemy.Earlier when sukreeva spoke about how he was helping Rama,Rama laughed and said "If I want I will kill Ravana and get what I want in one second")

When Rama said with so much benevolence how did the lankan king feel?
He felt humiliated.He felt lowlier than a earthworm.This also is a trick of god.He humiliates evil mongers first,destroyes their arrogance and makes them surrender to him.But some people even dont realize their mistakes at this point of time.

Kamban describes Ravana's humiliation in beautiful words.

"Varanam porutha maarbum,varayinai edutha tholum,naratha munikku erpa nayam pada uraitha naavum,thar ani mouli pathum,sankaran kodutha vaalum,veeramum kalathe pottu verungaye meendu ponan.

(The chest that wore jewels,the shoulders that lifted mount kailash,the tongue which sung songs so beautifully so that even naratha muni learnt music from it,the sword which lord shankara gave, and finally his valor--Ravana left everything in the battle field and went away with empty hands to his home...)

naal otha nalinam anna mugathiyar nayanam ellam vaal otha maindhar varthai ragavan vaali otha....

(In his house swan like women whom he loved,their words of affection now looked like swords to him,His childrens sweet talks appeared like sharp arrows of lord rama...)

Pan nirai pavala chevvai,paindthdi seethai ennum pen irai konda nejil naan nirai konda pinnar ulniorai manam thannai umilndhu eri uriy thappa thanan

(In the heart of Ravana the woman goddess seetha lived.Now in that heart shame and humiliation entered.A valiant ksathriya will die immdiatly if he is humiliated.But Ravana threw away the ksathriya valor and lived after that....)

Kamban says Ravana was dead on that second itself.We need not kill a man,if we destroy his self respect,it is worse than death.Ravana lived like that after that.He chose to loose his self respect rather than his life.


To be publicly humiliated is worse than death.But Ravanas biggest shame was not that.What was his biggest shame?Kamban says this as beutifully.


Van nagum,mannum ellam nagum,nedu vayira tholan than nagu pagaivar ellam naguvar endru atharku ellam nanan.......................................

Mithilai vandha sanaki naguval endre naanathal sambugindran..."

(Ravana did not feel ashamed that the devas in sky,whom he humiliated earlier, will laugh at him.Ravana did not feel ashamed that all humans will laugh at him.He was not humiliated when he thought that his enemies,who were treated by ravana with shame and contempt-will laugh at him.

He was ashamed when he thought that seetha of mithila,will laugh at him.That shame made him feel like dying..........)

what is more shameful than being humiliated in front of the woman whom you love?

Ravana is madly in love with seetha.He conveys his love to seetha devi.Finally going mad with love he falls at the feet of seetha.What a fall....there is no downside a man can go because of illicit love.

Kamban gives it in beautiful words.

Ravana strats off as

"Endru than adiyenukku iranguvathu?"

(when will you show mercy to me?)

Here kamban uses the word 'adiyen'.This is a word used by devotees to call themselves.Adiyen indicates a slave.Ravana uses such a word to denote that he is the slave of seetha.

"vanjanen enakku nane,matharor vadivu konda nanju thoi amutham unban nachinen.
naalum theindha nenju neranathu
unnai ninaippu *beep* avi neeka anjinen
adiyen num adaikalam,amuthena vandheer"

(Beautiful women are akin to amritha mixed with posion.I drunk such a poison.I am afraid to die without forgetting you.Adiyen surrender to you.You came as amritha to me)

"Thorpither,mathikku meni sudivitheer,thendral thootra veerpithieer,vaira tholai melivitheer,venil velai aarpitheer,ennai innal arivitheer,amarar acham theertheer,ennum eena enna sivitheer amma.."

Now Ravana rambling in love.These lines are too poetic.

"You defeated me completely.Your beauty even heats the cold moon.By seeing you even cold breeze sweats.My huge shoulders which are as strong as diamonds became slim because of you.You occupied my mind completely during the spring time.(Spring is time of love)You harmed me.By harming me you caused benefit to devas who are my enemies..what else are you planning to do to me oh amma...."

(Ravana uses the word Amma.It denotes a tamil tradition of calling all women as amma(mother).The tamilian inside kamban peeps out during such occasions.)

"Pen elam neere akki,per elam umathe akki,kan elam num kan akki,kamavel enum annal eivanum akki,ainganai ellam aniyathakka pun elam enakke aaki vibareetham purindhu vitter.."

(Every woman I see becomes you.Every name I hear becomes your name.Every eye I see becomes your eyes.You made manmatha throw his vicious arrows on me.Manmatha threw arrows which are bearable only by Lord shiva.But he threw such powerful arrows on me.How can I bear these wounds of love?Oh what an atrocity you commited...)

Ravana is not speaking these words.Its the poet in kamban who speaks these words.Tamil poets always exalt the virtue of love and valor.Even the great thiruvalluvar couldnt resist writing about inbathu pal.Kamban is no exemption to this rule.Maybe the poet in Ravan might have spoken such words.

"eeasne muthalana matrai manidar iruthi aga koosa
moondru ulagamum kakkum kotrathen
veera kotti pesuvar oruvarrku en aavi thotrilen
pen paal vaitha asai noi kondarthu endral anmai than masu kanatho..?"

(All men including even Lord shiva dont have the power to kill me.I rule the 3 worlds by my valor.many great warriors claim that they are thhe greatest warriors in the world,even such warriors have not been able to defeat me and take my life.Such is my valor,such is my manliness.But if now I lose such a great life of mine due to the love on a woman,is it not an insult to my manliness and virtue?)

saying all this and more finally the great king Ravana who have never touched the feet of anybody kept his head at the feet of seetha.

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

Epporul yaar yaar vai kaetpinum apporul meipporul kanbadharivu

I hope I have got that right! Idiappam, FSG, please correct me if I am wrong.

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great!

In Kamba Ramayanam , Bharatha tell Kowsalya devi the different type of sins.It consists of 20 verses.Some have been given here.

Bharathan says the following people are sinners.

Aram keda muyandravan-One who did not follow dharma
Arul il nenjinan -One who doesnt have a kind heart
Piran kadai nindravan -One who desired another person's wife.
magalirai vaalil kondron -one who killed women with sword
poikari koorinin -one who testifies false witness
porukku anjinon -one who is afraid of war
eitha edathu edar seithon-one who hurts a person who is already suffering
andhanar urayulai anali ootinon-one who burnt bhramins house
maindharai kondron -one who kills his own kids
vazakil poithulon -one who lies in court
nindanai devarai nigalthinon-one who abuses devas
Knniyai azi seyya karuthinon-one who thinks about abducting virgins
Guru pathiniyai nokkinon -one who thinks guru's wife with bad thoughts
kalavinil porundhinon -one who steals
oon nala unvazi nayin undavan -one who eats without giving to others(equates him with dog eating without giving to other dogs)

Thailaitha than thulavinon thalaivanallon ena alaithavan--one who refuses that the one who wears tulasi is god(vishnu)


Iravalalr arum nithi erindhu vilavinon--one who steals from beggers

Thai pasi uzanduyir thalara than thani pai perum paz vayiru alikkum paaviyum

meaning "One who fills his stomach while his mother is starving"

BHARATHA ON BAD KINGS

Azi varum arasiyal eithi agum endru izi varu siru thozil eyatri andu than vazi varu dharmathai marandhu...

He who gets the post of king using by cheap tactics which goes against dharma

anjina mannan--the king who runs away when evil forces attack his citizens


VEGETARIANISM:

In these verses bharathan says about vegetarianism

kandru uyiroyindhu ooga karandhu paal undon--one who drinks milk without feeding the calf first

uyir valarthu unnum asayon--one who raises animals and kills and eats them

Bharatha lists out these sinners and says if he had conspired against Rama He will attain the fates these people will attain.

reading the verses above, during Kamban's times, i think there were courts where people were called to testify! this was nearly 1200years ago!!!