IR's composing technique

Vijay, The whole discussion about what constitues a classic or dhandam is totally subjective in my opinion. So i think its futile to try to argue whether IR did more dhandams than classics or if other Md's have a better ratio than IR. Also i don't completely agree with your point that IR gave more classics during early eighties. I think IR' most creative and innovative compositions(and these were classics ) were in the period 1985 to 1992 (Till Dalapathy). This is the period where he took TFM to another level with technology and innovation without losing melody at the same time. I agree that early eightiees probably had more good IR songs( i am not sure if most of them can be called classics- subjective again) as far as ratios go, compared to the period i mentioned above where he did a lot of films. Again if you ask a average fan they would tell you IR's peak of popularity was in the above period. Even the so called dhandams might have been popular with average masses during that time.

rprasad, it isnt totally subjective. There are certain paramters that can easily tell you how much thought has been put into a song. Its partially subjective. Otherwise I can argue that Shankar-Ganesh have given as many if not more classics than IR :-))

" Again if you ask a average fan they would tell you IR's peak of popularity was in the above period"

and who are these average fans? Probably someone who dont follow TFM and especially IR's music seriously and just listen to whatever is the prevailing trend.I am not concerned about their opinions. This discussion is primarily amongst IR fans.

But even if you go by hits, the early 80s had a much higher hits to duds ratio as compared to the late 80s. You can go thru discography in the rajaangahm site and see for yourself.

Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: emergence of new genres
Kiru says, " I have picked up the 'tabla' songs of IR as a genre and am exploring the techniques used in them. Yes, we can move on to other types"

Friends, please stay with the topic, Kiru interestingly started two weeks back. Vijayr, You are a intelligent fellow, please post something interesting in this subject so that we learn and enjoy. Lets talk Raaja songs! :D Vinu

Vinu
Thanks a lot for ur mail.Thread ippadi thisai maari poradhae nu kavalai pataen.Come to the topic,i want to tell some songs impressed me !!!
1.Ilainjolai poothadha - Unakagavae vaazhgiraen
I don't know technically.This song has a beautiful tabla beats.Slow but steadly.Composing value vai indha tabla vil therindhu kollalam.
Tabla with Singers.
1.Muthu manai malai - Chinna Gownder.
Susheela voda pesum indha tabla.
2.Jodi kili engae sollu sollu - Padikadhavan
Idhil Spb tabla ku seriyaga speeda paduvar Rajiniyaiyum manadhi vaithu!!!!!
3.Vanamellam shenbagapoo - film?
Tabla lyricudan pesum indha songil
4.Nilavae vaa - Mouna raagam
in this song tabla is the jeevan
With Love,
Usha Sankar.

Despite vijay's contention to the opposite, classification of songs as great or dhandams are very subjective. In his posts, he has classified a lot of IR's songs as dhandams which I do not absolutely agree to. But it is just that his preferences and evaluations and mine of many of those same songs, albums are different.

He may argue that currrently there are more people who have similar preferences as him than preferences similar to mine. But that is a different matter than contending that his evaluation is more objective than others' and if there is discordance to his preferences then they are just subjective biases.

vijayr, I can quote atleast 100 melodious songs from your oft quoted 1987-1990 period like songs of oruvar vaazhum aalayam,
isai paadum thedral, soorasamharam, satya, agni nakshatram, geethanjali, maapillai , enjeevan paadudhu , enga oor paatukaran, karagatakkaran, anand, manadhil urudhi vendum, en uyir kannamma, unnal mudiyum thambi, paadu nilavae, nayagan, theertha karaiyinile, pudhu pudhu arthangal, dharmathin thalaivan, aboorvasahodharargal, rajathi raja.
These films atleast have 2 stupendous songs which are evergreen

If you call the songs in these aforementined films as junk, then sorry you just don't like IR.

.Tell me which other MD scored even listenable songs during the same period you have quoted. Many of us here are as equally familiar with IR's discography as you are and we are not diehard fans for nothing.

IR gave junk songs even in early 80's like for "alai osai" , "ellam inba mayam" etc. This was not any new thing that happened in 1987-1990 period.Till 1992, IR had a very impressive , colossal work of goodies with no slack period in between. Even some of his assembly line products are better than the best of the current TFM MDs.

Aiyoo manasu kekkalaippaa. My most fav IR perioda pathi yaaru kutham sollaradhu? IR Rasikaperumakkalae !!!
For example, evaluate the beauty of "aalankuyil"(which I consider the best of VS) against "vaa aruge iLam poonguyile" from paadu nilavae which came in 1987 (so called lean patch of IR) . Is the latter song in anyway lower than the former?
Take "pallaviye charanam " from iasai paadum thenral or "nee pournami"(oruvar vaazhum aalayam" (another beauty from the so called worst period of IR) , and evaluate against the best classical based song by ARR and see if it is in anyway inferior. Take "aaraaro" or "engirundho azhaikkum" (excuse the Latha factor he he he) or "anbu malargalin solai idhu"(from 1987 bombed Kannukku mai azhagu" and compare with the best melody of today(which is "poo poothadhu" :wink: for me ).
Also evaluate the folkish beauty of "yetham iyya yetham"(ninaive sangeetham 1988?) with any folk hit of today(Today means post 2000)

(yeththam aiya yeththam is one of the most medicore folk songs ever composed. There was a discussion on this song in these very pages sometime back)

Anyways, thumburu those films you have listed I have songs in the collection from all of them. Again they constitute about 20% of the overall output. I had listed some films earlier in this thread, go ahead and see them. You might not have even heard of some of them. Or you can check 1987 discography, for instance, yourself.
http://www.raajangahm.com/ric/film/FL-1987.html

Other than Nayakan(where the BGM was better than the songs) and to a certain extent Poovizhi Vaasalile can you pick a single other TFM album and say its overall quality is as good as Johny or Nenjathai KiLLaadhe or Ninaivellam Nithya?
Some albums had just 1 or 2 gnoteworthy songs. I cant pick an album that had 3 or 4 classics in them.

"Take "pallaviye charanam " from iasai paadum thenral or "nee pournami"(oruvar vaazhum aalayam" (another beauty from the so called worst period of IR) , and evaluate against the best classical based song by ARR and see if it is in anyway inferior"

thumburu I am not here to do ARR vs IR comparison, so please save it. My benchmark for comparison is IR's own songs, his classics from the early 80s.

"IR gave junk songs even in early 80's like for "alai osai" , "ellam inba mayam" etc. This was not any new thing that happened in 1987-1990 "

It was not new, but the quantity was higher. 4 or 5 good albums with 20 average or medicore ones.

baroque, sorry for the digression, but venus posted something different than the topic, to which I had to respond

Sorry guys my post reopened the topic which was already closed (and beaten to death).

I thought I clearly specified my intention ("Genius , Quality, Quanity & Creativity relationship) in that post.

Neither I was pointing anybody in my post nor I was passing any of my judgement in that post.

Anyway I will not post any more on this the topic.

Thanks.