venkkiram you are funny at times
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venkkiram you are funny at times
I disagree on this.... we are NOT deciding with KJY is very good at folk songs also with just one song (thanni thotti)... we have some many examples to prove KJY is capable of singing folk songs with the nativity.. (gramiya manathodu) .. Adi Kaana Karunguyile (Poonthotta Kaavalkaaran), erikkari poongatre (TNP) are one of the best folk songs ever....Quote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
I feel it is NOT that we decided with just one song... but you decided with one song that KJY is NOT so good at folk songs which IS DEFINETLY NOT TRUE IMHO...
also include KJY's rendtion of 'vechha paarvai theeradhadi' and the slightly sub-urban feel in 'oorai therinjikittaen' from 'padikkadhavan'
though I reiterate most of what Kiru says abt present day singers, the whole problem is actually part of a bigger problem - how many filmmakers today think of characterisation, character development in a story and then explain the ideas well to composers ? and how many composers today are 'intelligent'/smart enough to understand the needs of a given filmmakers's character creation and then compose to suit the particular character and the situation and then think of a singer who can fit all these things well ??
AFAIK, IR was the last of such legion of composers and the art of film-making itself per se has changed completely - you simply dont need a real composer for most of the trash that come out these days
irir123,
Very good point. What you say is very true and hence the generic nature of most music nowadays. When I listen to some of the songs on FM, it is clear that the song can be put into any movie and into any situation!!! Lyrics are equally generic as well!!
I think this point is rather abused. Many songs can be put into any movie (if you discount the lyrics), including Raaja's songs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Thats simply because situations in movies are repeating patterns.
It does not make sense IMO to say, "you cannot put any Raaja song into any other movie."
In my opinion, whats important and where Raaja stands tall is he always composes music that is always apt for the situation.
For example, for a sad song, he gives a really wicked sad song, while a lesser MD's composition might not just evoke that feel. Those songs might just not fit as nicely as Raaja songs do for those contexts.
Endha situation ku enna pannanumo adha excellent-a seivaar. This is not to say that all songs are so tightly coupled to a unique situation/context/film that it cannot be put somewhere else, simply because the underlying situation/context/film is usually/often not unique. Its not an absolutely direct mapping as much as its a good indicator. In other words, for a given situation, there might be more than one great/excellent match. And for a given composition, there might be more than one placeholder. This can be seen with the Raaja songs that have been migrated. There are some songs which may be very difficult to port but not all. Its not a comment on Raaja's uniqueness but rather thats the nature of the medium.
CR, agree with the porting part. It is not just that a song for similar situation can be ported.IR actually converted a love-failure fuelled volcanic melody(edhuta neeve abhinandana) to a mystery exploration(elaalo kurise anveshana). So, yes, in that sense, it can be ported.
Also, a standard 80ks tidbit is that mani interchanged nelA adhu and thenpaandi. Sila pala periyavanga and others quote that as mani saving the day for ir because "imagine thenpaandi as item song and nela adhu as lullaby/emotional rocker". I say they underestimate ir's capacity to port.
Yeah, so, the fct that ir's songs can also be ported distracts the fact that they were piece-perfect for. The situation in the first place. Pfcourse this is oobviously not true of all ir songs
CR,
You do have a valid point, no doubt about that. What I probably wanted to say is that the number of such generic songs is much higher now compared to the past and as irir123 has said, there are very few songs which convey the situation of the movie, even if the situation is a hackneyed one!! I don't think the MDs are alone to blame here. The directors of the movie get the song in the most generic of the situation.
More than Raja, it was the MSV / KVM generation along with the peerless Kannadasan, which ensured songs and situations were tightly linked.
I agree with irir123 and Suresh that directors and MDs are responsible for the state of singing as well.
Re: KJY - venkkiram is twisting my words - I mentioned these singers and their songs mainly to show their versatility and mainly because of this they are able to sing for different 'characters'.
Yes, even IR did 'generic' songs ..actually he did lots of crappy/bad songs as well..but if you look at the ones where he was really serious or for serious directors/movies the songs fit like a glove..many movies the stories were told through the songs.
Re: MSV/KVM & Kannadasan - I agree great songs and again they carried the movies with these songs. Compared to these MDs what I like about IR is the love songs. Maybe the MDs reflect the economic progress of the country - MSV/KVM a little sad, IR - romantic, ARR - fun.
(rajkumar..romba software'la moozhgitteenga pOlirukkE :-) )
I agree with Sureshs65's point that "that the number of such generic songs is much higher now compared to the past"
I cant imagine any other composer rising up to the occasion as IR did for Kamal in MX in 'kurangu kaiyil maalai' which perfectly fit the incongrous situation of the hackneyed plot, while 'poo poothadhu' for the same film, though generic is still a classic! all songs of 'nan kadavul' none of which are generic and are tailor-made for that particular script/plot; some of IR's timeless classics fall in the situational tailor-made melody category such as the songs of 'thevar magan' (each one perfectly fitting into the flow of the film which itself is a classic), 'mahanadhi', hey ram'(barring the 'ramaranulum' which i thought was a weird song for a period film), 'mouna ragam' (the perfect fit being 'nilavey vaa' which is mouna ragam specific and cannot be fit into any other film), etc. Earlier, IR was giving tons of generic melodies for movies with poorer scripts, but now, his generic melodies have lost the zing they once had, most probably coz, IR does not get motivated/inspired enough. The underlying theme is you have a reasonably powerful script, IR will run riot. Hence, I am eager to listen to 'Pazhassi Raja'!
Naan Kadavul had 2 songs which were composed for a different film/album - "Amma Un Pillai" and "Pichai Paathiram" which is what my point isQuote:
Originally Posted by irir123
Disagree. There is no reason why it cannot fit into any other movie with a similar situation - neither is the situation so unique nor is the tune so tightly/instruments/orchestration coupled. I mean, come on, is there a one-one directory of situations vs music? Of course not. What if Raaja had composed more than one tune for this song? And by what authority/yard stick do we say its "Mouna Ragam" specific, whatever that means? I mean, you can't take a song out of Mouna Raagam and use it in Boys, thats obvious but thats not what we're talking about here.Quote:
Originally Posted by irir123