thiruvasakam in symphony

Vijay, again do you have proof that only a few fans have done piracy? If you don't then you are also assuming facts and generalizing on the other extreme view. Let us not jump to conclusions. If you think some Fans have worked hard for this project that is fine IR has already expressed his thanks. Just because they have worked their tails off for this project does not mean their views become more important in this matter than IR's, IR being the main entity and the composer has much to lose because of this piracy and hence has more concern.The hardworking ones need not feel any offence as they have not done anything wrong.You said these fans were upset about this letter, imagine how upset IR must have been when he got the information relating to piracy among his fans.Infact for him to come out with this kind of letter and commitment to non piracy requests, it must have been really upsetting for him. did you think about that? I am not sure how many fans IR has and whom is he referring to so before we jump the gun and start assuming things let us wait for any clarifications that they are supposed to provide(oh you told that you are not interested in this either). There is no reason for IR to baselessly make this allegation unless he has some information relating to it. All he is asking for is commitment to non piracy and the genuine fans(hardworking ones) should have no problems providing that. If you think people would stop being fans of his based on this then i don' think they are real IR fans.

I said there were some fans who got a little upset, because the tone of the letter was generalizing things and not acknowledging that many fans had bought multiple CDs themselves and insisted on buying only original CDs.If you think the fans shouldnt be upset or that makes them lesser fans, thats your opinion. If he had thanked those who had bought multiple CDs first and then proceeded to criticize the unintentional piracy it would have softened things a bit. The only clarification IR has made at this point is that his mail was addressed only to those amongst his fans who might have done this. Apparently he realized that his earlier message was generalizing things, and he has corrected it. He has also acknowledged the fact that many fans bought multiple CDs too, which he didnt earlier. But apart from that no word on the piracy itself and to what extent the damage was done by the fans and so on.

this is all much ado about nothing Vijay!
As far as genesis's comment on TiS is concerned, it is his opinion. I too don't like some works hailed as master pieces. Just because I dont doesnt make them any less. I played TiS in my car and the person who drives my car, a kannadiga was so impressed with the quality of music. i have found that TiS music by itself has a vibration which reaches out to all. It is finally the mental conditioning of the viewer, belief system etc., that will shape the initial reactions of the listener. If one wishes to be patient , then one can find deep moments of joy buried within.

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?...date=1/26/2006

End of one controversy...

app engine,

Good ending, but wrong controversy:-)

Saw the Republic day programme on IR in Jaya TV.
I have recollected some thoughts in my blog -Silence Rocks

vijay, the reason I ask questions rather than get irked is simply because I want to know what you really think rather than interpreting myself from the statement you made. I am not interested in having an argument just for the sake of it or for scoring ego points. You made a certain statement. It could have been interpreted as rprasad eventually did. But I was wise enough to recognise that you might have meant it differently. So I asked questions so that I can understand what you really meant before actually trying to present an opposite point of view. In other words, instead of rushing to assume something you said meant something I thought it meant, I was trying to ascertain what you really meant. In other words, as a debate, I was keeping the debate purely on the issue. Ofcourse, you would interpret that as "he got irked", wouldnt you? You would bring in my personal character and behaviour and stuff, right. You would make assumptions that I got irked, right?
Ask yourself one question - why does your mind always attack the person rather than the points he makes? You could have answered my questions straight but you chose to make a personal statement on my "state of mind" - as though you have a microphone and a bugging device installed in my mind :-) See what I mean? For the record, I didnt get irked nor I am now inspite your personal attacks. Hey, been there done that for years now vijay.

As for the past, I dont think I have not answered your points in any issue we had a discussion before. Maybe the MSV issue but the truth is I get my peak periods and slack periods at work. I initiate debates during my slack periods, then lose track during peak periods,a nd then I cant find the link(I am lousy at finding the tfm old threads). You are welcome to open those links and we can discuss whenever we are both available. (Oh! Boy! Arent you good at ferreting out those links!)
Infact, you didnt answer me in the Hariharan issue when I put a couple of pointed questions at you. I ignored it because it is not my life's mission to make sure you answer my questions and nor is it my tendency to bring that up when we are discussing a different issue.
I would say one thing - things would be a lot more saner if we just discussed the issue all the time - like I said before once in kavin's context, "irrespective of kavin's credentials, can some one answer his questions?" Now, that is always my aim - to keep the focus on the issues rather than personalities and vijay, you can ask yourself if you arent the opposite.
"epporul yaar yaar vai ketpinum, apporul mei porul kaanbadharivu".

So, again, In my opinion, if only you could stick to the issue at hand rather than a personal discussion of hubbers involved, a lot of discussions would be much saner. As a senior hubber, it is again my opinion that you have a bigger responsibility towards this than other johnny-come-latelys. Rest is left to you.

I thought thrice before hitting post because, contrary to my policy, I have discussed you personally here. But that is in the hope that you see your posts from a different perspective - that of an impartial observer. You are welcome to analyse it or ignore it, ofcourse. This is the last time I am discussing anyone perosnally here. And yes, you can always get back with whatever inadequacies you perceive in my opinions, statements and intent as you perceive my posts. I will definitely consider the merit in those arguments before accepting/ignoring them. Hey, my ego is not at stake here. My aim in coming to this forum is to udnerstand TFM and TFM-related issues from various perspectives and try to put across my view to those views which I find as flawed. It is sickening to see when a discussion gets hijacked into "you said this on that day" ,"you are a so-and-so" etc and then pages of accusations and counter accusations. I dont think anyone other than the principals involved read these long posts(Including this one).
Sad to say, vijayr, much in counter to my intuition, you have become a part of this in the last few months. In other words, my evaluation of vijayr as a debater and a hubber post-2004 is the same as vijayr's evaluation of IR post-90's. Drop in standards. Sad, but I have a right to my opinion, dont I?

rajdes, just saying that you sound irked doesnt make it personal. When you or others say that I am biased or question whether I have a poor opinion of IR's honesty etc. then can I say that your are being personal too? After all the discussion should be about him and his works and not about how biased or unbiased or what kind of opinions I have towards IR etc. That is being personal too, if you ask me. I posted a link and made a couple of my personal observations and you immediately started listing countless interpretations and asking me to clarify each one. Frankly, I didnt think you could come up with so many interpretations for what I wrote.
I would say the same to you. Take my points as they are. Why do you care what state of mind I am in or what opinion I hold of IR etc. or whether I am biased against him etc. or not? It seems like you are too curious at times to really get into my mind and know what I feel about TIS,IR etc. Thats getting personal too, isnt it? We need to draw a line somewhere

"Infact, you didnt answer me in the Hariharan issue when I put a couple of pointed questions at you'

which issue? related to his singing in that live concert? I answered someone else in that thread and had included my thoughts on HH. I laid it out crystal clear.

Second, I dont believe in all this senior hubber-more responsibility stuff etc. I visit this site just like I visit other music forums, sites etc. There is no seniority in cyberspace. I can understand if I was some sort of moderator myself in this hub, but Im am not.

another thing you dont understand is, you shoot questions at me, about what I actually think of someone and when I reply, some other casual passer-by butts in and throws his stuff at me and it goes off in a different direction every time. So I would suggest that if you really need to truly know what I am thinking you could have always sent a PM or an email rather than shooting questions off here which serves as bait for few other trouble makers in this thread. Hope you realize that.

"It is sickening to see when a discussion gets hijacked into "you said this on that day" ,"you are a so-and-so" etc and then pages of accusations and counter accusations."

yeah, but who initiates it? :-) I have always been on the defensive end of it.

as far as my standards of posting/debating or whatever I am who I am. I dont worry about it. The level/intensity of my arguments is heavily dependent on who I am arguing with it. So if you think there is a perceivable drop in my standards you probably need to take a look around and see the kind of crowd these days in DF that I am dealing with at times. And some of these guys with whom I argued in the recent past happen to be so-called veteran hubbers too. The fact that you have addressed your concern of debating standards only to me and not to them, shows that you have probably given up on them already :-) Maybe the best way is for me to ignore most of these guys and limit my debates to just one or two of you guys. But that would ultimately mean giving up on DF itself, like a few others whom I know did. I am not quite there yet.

Letting Vijay and rajdes debate continue, let me recount something else. Yesterday, I happened to see a 30 minute clip of IR's speech at JayaKanthan's Felicitation for Jnanpeet award. It was a very good free flowing speech laid with humorous and musical quotes , thirukkurals , Bharathiyar poems. The anecdotes on his elder brother Pavalar Varadharajan and closing with an explanation for his shift from atheism to theism at Moogambiga temple at Kollur and finally reciting a venba he wrote on JK. Totally fluent and free speech no holds barred from IR.

vijay, yes - obviously, i wouldnt bother with other guys - as i said, i take an argument/debate up only when i think i am assured(relatively speaking) of a intelligent counter-perspective. after all, one has one's commitments outside cyberspace taking up 24 hrs literally and the only reason to come to a forum like this is to enrich one's understanding.
When you relentlessly bring up this thing about IR and his fans, one wonders why?!! If you feel thats prying into your mind, well, what can I say - I am still curious what makes one puruse IR's 'failings' without tiring('cos what is the need to revive this thread and throw it open to IR-baiters)!So I will probably PM you(though I havent used tht feature often so it doesnt come to my mind automatically to do that - a bit of a conservative , I am, and I still post in the old DF style from this edit window in the bottom of the page because I havent really embraced the DF changes so that thought of sending PM didnt occur to me(now dont relate that to my musical taste :-).


Well, the causal passers-by taking potshots thing also didnt really strike me because I generally ignore posts which contain personal abuse - no point discussing with those guys . Well, if that sort of thing bothers you, well, maybe , I can understand your reservations in discussing your reasons here.
I think without giving up on the DF, one could ignore the trouble makers but hey, if you have the time, why do I complain?:-)
Regarding your debating standards, I said that only because I genuinely admired the debating skills you displayed, irrespective of whether I agreed with your point or not. So, as a fan, it IS disappointing when people around you manage to bring you down to the same level as they.
Just a thought, suppose we cornered IR and accused him of "drop in standards" and suppose he turns around and says "yeah, but look at the standards around me , look at the directors who come to me. Some of them veterans like BM,, look at the kind of movies they are making now. so there." Suppose?