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I watched the AIE program on DVD, Bharathi Raja claims that IR has lot of ego and thats what saves him from all the troubles. IR may be feeling that he lost out of the race that someone from south won internationally. He trying to catch up but fails in every step of the way. But he has been successful in driving his fans away by making false statements about piracy.
app_engine, I dont know whether it is just your or somebody else also had a similar opinion. Frankly, I guess you guys have totally a distorted view of Intellectual Property rights work. If you created IP under the salary or using the resources of an organization, that organization owns it. If you work in a company and you came up with an idea using company time/resources, it belongs to the company. Similarly, TIS rights should lie with the non-profit that funded it. Anyways, I dont want to go there again. Just that TISK mentioned this I had to reiterate this point.
Earlier, I was not-taunting (to rajdes) or being negative, I cant but help observe the amount of goodwill that has been squandered away.
To people who think IR is not money-minded - it is probably that his ego gets the better of his money-mindedness :-)
kiru wrote:
So what's the final decision? If IR is not guilty under section"fraud", lets try him under section "ego-minded" and pronounce a verdict!!Quote:
To people who think IR is not money-minded - it is probably that his ego gets the better of his money-mindedness
Well that smacks of vindictiveness!
I bought CDs for myself and my relatives and I am happy with what IR delivered.
If he can deliver one more project like TiS, I will off course support him in any way I can as a fan. I will be really feeling let down if he doesn't deliver it. I would be least bothered about how he delivers it and more about what he delivers.
However I still do have a tinge of disappointment in a corner of my heart that someone (TIS-USA) got a bad experience after helping out this venture.
Questions to TISK:
1. Did IR directly involve tis-usa or was it fully an idea by Tamil Maiyyam to involve TIS-USA?
2. What were IR's initial reactions to tis-usa being involved in the venture?
3. Who funded IR's stay in Malaysia for TiS composition?
4. In the earlier letter Father had posted, it was said that WellGate paid only 5 Lakhs to Tamil Mayyam, what is the current status?
5. TIS-USA site referred at last says that 40% of loans have been repaid. what is the current status?
Ofcourse I dont demand all these information. I merely ask. however looking at the caustic reply that you have posted, I must presume that you haven't made much progress. One reason why music lovers in USA are not buying TIS could well be the misuse of "Right of fair use" clause in CDs, which allow copying across iPods and other music players. This allows for music sharing across iPods, that cannot be prevented. In India this menace is a lot less because of the forbidding costs of iPods here.
It is also ridiculous that in terms of the contribution to the TIS project, while everyone is talking about the money that was invested as the capital for the project, no one is giving due credit to the intellectual capital of IR that was contributed to the project.
In terms of statements about IP and who owns it etc., those things should have been contractually negotiated prior to the onset of the project. When you are an employee of an organization, you get in to such contracts when you enter a job. If such contracts are not put in place, then each party can lay a legitimate claim, like may be happening now with TIS.
However, IR has not squandered anything with this fan. If he wants to do another project like TIS, I will be one of the first to contribute.
"I guess you guys have totally a distorted view of Intellectual Property rights work"
Kiru, ennanga idhu, 18 varushamA design / development field'la irukkaRa ALukku basics'la class edukkareenga...For your kind info, I've even worked on an assignment that was to obtain patent rights for a company...and all my technical brain work these years belong to the companies I worked for & I do not own a single patent / design or line of code:-)).
Please read my post carefully...I didn't talk about who owns the product now or who should be making money with that or how the .org is taken care / not taken care etc.
In fact, I do sympathize with the .org & TiS-USA for all their efforts and regret the probable bad treatment meted out to them, which is typically expected from a film-field bigwig and something of a sort I would never want to be involved in. Not in my lifetime.
My only observation was there was no defrauding of "public" (i.e. those individuals who donated for the production of thiruvasagam with musical arrangement)...didn't IR score for it? (It even got released)...there fulfilled the expectations for which they voluntarily donated...where is the question of their being sucked?...
Romba polambureengaLE sir, oru chinna kELvi, let the .org come out in open:
How much was IR paid up front for the album? What salary was paid to him (not to his artists or recording theater or his travel but as salary to him individually for his time / skills / labor) using the money of the 'public'? kOdikkaNakkula kottikkoduththuttAngaLA? at least `karakAttakkAri'kku koduththa salary koduththAngaLA?...
'IP' paththi pEsareengaLE, `royalty'nnu oru vishayam irukku...adhu paththiyum konjam research paNNungO sir...
It is also ridiculous that in terms of the contribution to the TIS project, while everyone is talking about the money that was invested as the capital for the project, no one is giving due credit to the intellectual capital of IR that was contributed to the project.
In terms of statements about IP and who owns it etc., those things should have been contractually negotiated prior to the onset of the project. When you are an employee of an organization, you get in to such contracts when you enter a job. If such contracts are not put in place, then each party can lay a legitimate claim, like may be happening now with TIS.
However, IR has not squandered anything with this fan. If he wants to do another project like TIS, I will be one of the first to contribute.
More on IP rights:
For the sake of discussion, say TM is the company that `hired' IR to work for them on a product development. Paid him salary and provided him facilities, after signing up such contracts like an employer-employee or company-agency. Ofcourse, the product (its design and everything connected with it including the 'IP') is in that case owned by TM. 100%...no question about that.
Who is stopping them from selling it themselves and make money? Or who is stopping them from fighting it out legally if someone else is guilty of violation of their copyright/patent/ownership/you-name-it?
Why they are not doing it if it's hitting their bread-n-butter? Is it because they cannot spend for a lawyer...there're plenty of firms which can work with them and get paid only when they win and are awarded the millions in compensation...TM probably knows this better than any of us...then why they are not going to court instead of lamenting in blogs?...
The possible explanations:
a) They have not in reality 'hired' the artiste IR...can't afford to pay him...hence may be made him a co-producer...'nee arisi koNdu vA, nAn umi koNdu vaREn...' kind of logic...accordingly there is a sharing of rights (in whichever format / agreement it is) and also sharing of profit / loss that is 'proportionate' to investment.
or
b) Though TM has 100% rights, they are willing to give them up and put up with IR's idiosyncrasies and 'forgive' him despite becoming pauper because of him...(do you think this is praiseworthy, especially when they with IR jointly collected donations from public?)
or
c) They have made (or still confident of making) enough money for themselves...if not thru sales, thru some big sponsors (like Tis-USA, who can be pushed to barter CD's for loan money)...
The logistics have been discussed in great depths from 49th page, so there is no need to go back to this again. net net all those who got involed had no idea about market condition and the technology called "mp3", so is the reason why it hurt their finger/pocket.
app_engine and others, sorry I dont mean to underestimate your knowledge of IP or not. I guess we all have a different perspective on how things went (or the version of it). All problems would not have arisen if TM negotiated everything (I mean in completeness, regarding rights/royalty/salary etc) in hard copy, which they did not.
Anyways, I dont think I have the energy to revisit this topic again.
My impression/opinion of IR's integrity is not the same after this TIS incident. Sorry this is an opinion, I can only change this over a course of time and learning of IR more. It is not something, I am afraid, will change in a few posts.
"My impression/opinion of IR's integrity is not the same after this TIS incident"
I appreciate your viewpoint. Honestly, I never cared about IR's integrity at any point of time (before or after TiS)...Simply because, I need to worry about that only if and when I'm going to enter into any business dealings with him personally.
While his music was / is / will be special to me, I never cared for him as a personality in a way much different from any other successful film personality...avanga ellArukkum main kuRikkOL paNam & pughazh...matRa ellAmE 'as per convenience' dhAn..(ethics, honesty, manidha nEyam, uRavugaL, sei nandRi etc.)...'irukkAdhu, illai'nnu sollalai. They are simply not their `priority' items. So, namma adhukku uNarchi vasappada vENdiyadhE illai enbadhu en karuththu. (Over the years, I have seen such values disappearing with even individuals that you meet in everyday life...enna seiyya? sigh...)
"All problems would not have arisen if TM negotiated everything (I mean in completeness, regarding rights/royalty/salary etc) in hard copy, which they did not."
I totally agree with you on this. Unless one is willing to forgo the money ("pOttE, sAram illa"), it's always prudent to put everything in paper when dealing with business matters - even if the other party is a close friend or relative...adhu thAnga namma policy...