New age IR's Raga Choices

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Originally Posted by RR

Vel, I don't think there's a R2 in sumanesa ranjani. Also D3/N3 is quite predominant in the song. Just watch the pallavi and the backing instrumentals.

I too can't find prominent use of R2 as KV observed. Which also explains Suresh's observation: the 'S G2 M2 P' parts lead to sumanesa ranjani feels.

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hi RR, KV,

i tried the gULABI song this morning -- R2 is used in the charanams (after the first line tune that is repeated twice....the couple of lines following that use R2)

Even in the desiya geetham song, there is a predominant S G2 jump, skipping the R2....but it also has clearly marked R2 in many other lines.....there is lesser ambiguity there.....


Also RR, sumenesaranjani/madhukauns does not have R2. This link explains madhukauns, sumanesaranjani difference - http://www.carnatica.net/queryinquiry.htm ...it says ""The Carnatic counterpart for this raga (madhukauns) happens to be Sumanesaranjani, which of course has Suddha Madhyama in the Avarohana. The scale for this raga is: S G2 M2 P N2 S - S N2 P M2 G2 M1…. G2 S (With a slight oscillation of M1)....

Hi Vel,
I'm still not able to place the R2 in it (will check it out at home again), but yes this scale is closer to Sumanasaranjani (kannammaa kaadhal and Mouname nenjil naalum, but these two songs, I think, have R2 in them!) And the Gulabi song also has D3 in it, which kinda differentiates it from SRanjani.
Nammala kuzhappi vidradhe ivar vElaya pOchu. Raasappu, enna velayaattu idhu? :evil:

Suresh,

swapnangal is a toughie. On the song per se, chandrabimbathin is miles ahead in comparision. Rahul also
sounded good in the latter.

RR,

Honestly I wouldn't be able to pick between these two. Both are excellent in their own way, with 'Swapanangal' touching the heart a bit more.

Alright, here goes… tried a rough mapping of swaras in Prema Devathe.

Pallavi

Oh prema devathe, Priya raaga devathe
Sa ni Sa da pa pa, Sa Sa ni-Ga-Sa da pa pa

Ilaya ramiso alaye ninage
pa pa ma-pa ma pa ma ga ga ma pa da ma pa ma ga

prema yaaga geetha ragaanjali
sa pa ma pa ga ma sa ga ni sa

aathma yaaga raaga geethaanjali
sa pa ma pa ga ma sa ga ni sa


Charanam

Malligaya mele manmathana leele
sa ga ma pa Sa-ni-da-ni-Sa-Sa ni Sa ni pa pa-ma-ga-pa-pa

chorus: noduvaaga modhavo kalidaasa kaavyavo
gapamapa-gapamapa ga sa sa gapamapa-gapamapa ga sa sa

chandhanadha baale chelukidhe neele
sa ga ma pa Sa-ni-da-ni-Sa-Sa ni Sa da pa pa-ma-ga-pa-pa

chorus: gapamapa-gapamapa ga sa sa gapamapa-gapamapa ga sa sa

Neere neere minugo thaare
pa da da pa-da-pa-ma-pa-da-da ga ma pa da Ga Ri2 da

needu baara dhinugo saara
pa da da pa-da-pa-ma-pa-da-da ga ma pa da da Ga Ri2 da

prema vaahini aatma roopini
da Ga Ri2 da-da-ni da Ga Ri2 da-da-ni

prema vele geethe maale jeeva vaahini
da1 da1 ni ni Sa Sa da3 da3 pa pa ma ga ma pa
Vel, you’re right, R2 appears in two lines in Charanams, but it looks like an anya swaram because it’s nowhere else in the song. D3, on the other hand, appears in many places in the song and to me it should be part of the scale.
(And of course, the charanam-pallavi connector should be ideally discounted while determining an IR song's raga, because this is where the man brings in his syncopation mastery most of the times!)

Hence this:
S G2 M2 P D3 N3 S S N3 D3 P M2 G2 S

Listing the aro/avaro from wiki of ragas we’ve touched upon so far for this song:
Sumanasaranjani S G2 M2 P N2 S S N2 P M2 G2 S
Varunapriyaa S R2 G2 M1 P D3 N3 S S N3 D3 P M1 G2 R2 S
Neethimathi S R2 G2 M2 P D3 N3 S S N3 D3 P M2 G2 R2 S

Now, Sumanasaranjani uses N2, but this song uses N3. Varuapriya uses M1, while here it’s M2. While Neethimathi seems the closest (of course, with that sparsely used R2, it does fully map to Neethimathi) almost all phrases in the song use S to G2 jumps without any traces of R2. We could probably consider this some unlisted Janya of Neethimathi. Or map the G2 as R3 and consider this an unlisted janya of Rasikapriya.

porumaya spacing ellaam kuduththu post pannEn. Inga paatha :mad:

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Originally Posted by KV

porumaya spacing ellaam kuduththu post pannEn. Inga paatha :mad:

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Edit your post and try with Courier Font

vEnaam... aludhuruven...

KV, Superb! Thanks for the complete swara notation. Wonderful :clap: Very good as an educational purpose. Thank you! Question not relevant to this topic, still want to ask, if I may. Sometimes (no many times), I find it difficult to distinguish between say ni, ni2 and ni3, sameway di, d2 and d3, especially d2 and d3 or ni2 or ni3. How do you guys find that out? Just by singing or by playing on any instrument? I know playing instrument would be easy enough, but just wanted to know. You guys are doing a great job!

KV , lovely writeup of the swara notations , will try playing this song

V_S
Yes , you are right , there is more confusion when it comes to Ga and Ni as compared to Ri and Da .
I generally know the swaras immediately as i listen to the song , but have the problem of bifurcating further.
For eg ill surely know its Ni , but wont be sure if its Ni2 or Ni3

What im doing now is , " I try humming the tune and then relate it with a popular song which i know has 'which Ni or Da etc' and try to match it based on that.
May not be always right 100 % , but this deductive mechanism has been useful at times for me :)
Ogcourse , the other alternative is playing it on the keyboard and checking for the exact notes.