Maestro Ilaiyaraja New Albums 2011 - Hello Jaihind / Sri Rama Rajyam

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Originally Posted by Plum

Amitabh Bachchan

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Idhellam remba overu pachan saar :evil:
I mean, you have received acclaim in india beyond your levels of achievement and ability - wherefrom this siege mentality? That too after watching someone like IR in close quarters - avlo saadhiocha avarae recognition illaama irukkarache, ivaru kulikkalaingaradha tv news-A potta naattula ivarukuu support illainu amitap feel pandradhula arthame illai.[/quote]

adhey adhey! cannnot agree with you more!

Bachhan is neither a connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes - when he shd have been busy in honing his creative skills, Bachhan was busy either into politics or doing one masala movie after another ! with due credit to Amitabh for his superstardom, strictly in terms of artistic sophistication, acting prowess, or versatility, Bachan lags behind many of his contemporaries like the late Sanjeev Kumar etc - not withstanding some of his splendid performances including ‘paa’!

many kudos and deeply felt admiration for his stupendously courageous recovery from his ‘coolie’ injury, and his coping up with myasthenia gravis – but i think his lame ’shahenshahs’ and other related run-of-the-mill bollywood masala of so many years, his association with ‘not-so-creative’ ppl in the industry and his choice of films as well as the tangential jump into politics and advt endorsing do not speak well of his professionalism (or lack of it)! [/tscii]

Plum

adhey adhey! cannnot agree with you more!

Bachhan is neither a connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes - his association with ‘not-so-creative’ ppl in the industry and his choice of films as well as the tangential jump into politics and advt endorsing do not speak well of his professionalism (or lack of it)!

[quote="irir123"]

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Originally Posted by Plum

Amitabh Bachchan

Bachhan is neither a connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes

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I beg to differ.Do you even know who his favourite composers are?Or his favourite authors?books?His relationship with his co-actors?

He was born to an illustrious poet and was brought up in an extremely intellectual environment.His command over language (Hindi and english)and his knowledge about certain things like literature has always been appreciated. People like us know him only as an actor and agreed he did some of the dumbest films ever. Yet, why do you think some of the best talented people in Indian film Industry such as Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Sanjeev Kumar, Gulzar, Basu Chatterjee, Javed Akhtar etc have good opinion about him. They too know about his needless brush with politics and hopeless choice of films.Still, what makes them praise him.

we the audience form opinions very quickly.Because we dont know an actor.To understand the real person behind an actor or his true calibre, ask the people who work closely with that actor. This applies not just to AB, but any actor.

is new quote system introduced here?

[quote="raagas"]

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Originally Posted by irir123

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Originally Posted by Plum

Amitabh Bachchan

Bachhan is neither a connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes

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I beg to differ.Do you even know who his favourite composers are?Or his favourite authors?books?His relationship with his co-actors?

He was born to an illustrious poet and was brought up in an extremely intellectual environment.His command over language (Hindi and english)and his knowledge about certain things like literature has always been appreciated. People like us know him only as an actor and agreed he did some of the dumbest films ever. Yet, why do you think some of the best talented people in Indian film Industry such as Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Sanjeev Kumar, Gulzar, Basu Chatterjee, Javed Akhtar etc have good opinion about him. They too know about his needless brush with politics and hopeless choice of films.Still, what makes them praise him.

we the audience form opinions very quickly.Because we dont know an actor.To understand the real person behind an actor or his true calibre, ask the people who work closely with that actor. This applies not just to AB, but any actor.

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Raagas

Why didnt you use the same scale for IR, when you were complaining about him being bit arrogant and you never heard him praising ARR etc?

if it wasnt you, sorry.

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Originally Posted by nanchil_guy

Raagas

Why didnt you use the same scale for IR, when you were complaining about him being bit arrogant and you never heard him praising ARR etc?

if it wasnt you, sorry.

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Nanchil_guy,

Firstly,I see some gap in the context i cited and what you asked. My comment about AB was about his personal taste and his real personality as such, since "connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes" line came up.I only meant to say that if someone says his favourite composer is, say, S.D.Burman(for example), or if someone who has likes and has good knowledge about good literature (which is an art), then he (be it AB or anyone) must be having a good flair for art right.I was merely highlighting that aspect, that just because AB did some stupid films etc etc,it doesnt mean he cannot appreciate good art.That, in nut shell was my point.

Coming to your question:
My complaint with IR has always been his rants.This whole talk about synthesizer invasion, or new composers serving popcorn and all that. I somehow never liked that talk. And mind you,I am not questioning the truth in his statement.Its purely subjective and its matter of perspectives.But when IR himself is involved with synthesizers,popcorn etc,i feel he shouldnt be saying that.I have heard few songs in which synth loops were used as-is.Now obviously i wouldnt like it if IR complains about composers using synth loops.Dont you think it would be wise if He: either sticks to his strengths (orchestral music) and then rant about synth invasion (which again is not needed, but still, if it comes naturally to him, because of his love for acoustic music) OR simply use synth also, but without ranting about others.Simple.

My intention is positive: I wish IR steers away from controversies.He has already been misunderstood few times.Why more!He can simply give what he is capable of, without commenting on others. Right?

The above paragraph is written looking at specific datasets such as some of his interviews and some songs.I AM happy with most of his 2009 work, barring few exceptions.

About ARR issue,if i respond to it, this thread would turn into yet another cliche`d discussion on IR-ARR.So,please excuse me.I wouldnt like to kickstart another controversial discussion.

IR never ranted about synthesizer! The fact is that he is the one who introduced the keybord/synth to TFM. His rant is about the synth/loops overdose and the live orchestarta/composer being replaced by a mere machine!!.

And he explained many a times that he is trying to avoid the use of loops 99% and that 1% also he uses it without being easily picked by the listener.

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we the audience form opinions very quickly.Because we dont know an actor.To understand the real person behind an actor or his true calibre, ask the people who work closely with that actor. This applies not just to AB, but any actor.

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Originally Posted by nanchil_guy

His rant is about the synth/loops overdose and the live orchestarta/composer being replaced by a mere machine!!.

And he explained many a times that he is trying to avoid the use of loops 99% and that 1% also he uses it without being easily picked by the listener.

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we the audience form opinions very quickly.Because we dont know an actor.To understand the real person behind an actor or his true calibre, ask the people who work closely with that actor. This applies not just to AB, but any actor.

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Thanks for acknowledging that there are rants in the first place. And when you say 'Overdose', dont you think it us purely subjective.Whats 'over' for one, might not be 'over' for another.Again i have reiterated that I dont wish to contest the degree of truth in his statement.My only point is that such rants are unnecessary, especially when he too uses the loops(less or more is again subjective).I would have subscribed to his rants, with pride, if he never used any loops anytime.Not to forget,his own sons are part of Popcorn lot too.So,why all those rants!

Secondly,I dont form opinions about him quickly.My opinions,whatever they may be,are not based on media articles written by someone, as far as possible.My opinions are based on videos i have seen or the content(his music/focus on saleability etc) i hear or firsthand accounts of people.When this whole forum was going high discussing about recent controversy regarding Malayalam lyrcist, I was silent, because I did not have any firsthand knowledge about what Ilaiyaraaja said or what was the context.Often,a statement when stripped off the context gets a twisted meaning.So,i dont subscribe to that.Lastly,I just try to know perspectives from people, and i make sure that perspectives remain as perspectives, without factualizing them. Recently, I met a very reputed instrumentalist, with whom i had a small discussion on IR's music.I was tempted to share that here,but i refrained because it is just the instrumentalist's perspective and after i put it here, we would get into a "This is right, that is wrong" kind of argument that would lead to nowhere. I gather perspectives, with sources/labels, for my own feed(to know the person more, than from media) :)

aaha kelambittangaiya...kelambittanga...
PAA is doing well in the BO and tops the chart for nearly 4 weeks. That's what I wish to highlight by posting AB's quote from his blog. But, both Nanchilar and Raagas bypassed it and collide head on an unnecessary contro.reminds me of 'kaniyiruppa kaai kavarnthatru'.

Thats good to know , raagas! just trying to put forward some of my opinoins on that , nothing else, no hard feelings!

as a final note on this , IR had ridculed/made fun of yuvan for this type of composing whenever he shared the podium with him.

Shankar, sorry. it was my bad, i started it.

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Originally Posted by Shankar.P

aaha kelambittangaiya...kelambittanga...
PAA is doing well in the BO and tops the chart for nearly 4 weeks. That's what I wish to highlight by posting AB's quote from his blog. But, both Nanchilar and Raagas bypassed it and collide head on an unnecessary contro.reminds me of 'kaniyiruppa kaai kavarnthatru'.

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In some particular type of fruits like guava, mango etc i like the 'kaai' more than the 'kani'! enna seiya!

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raagas,
IR has explained his stance on synths clearly in the TIS dvd. To translate it into english, it should be used like a "fruit hidden behind a leaf" (this is better said in tamil, probably there is a telugu equivalent).
That said, my understanding, many MDs are building the songs completely out of store bought loops..that is ..the whole texture of the song can be heard somewhere else. They are doing only the tune. This is a different approach to song making. IR for political/diplomatic reasons does not go into that much detail. Actually, in one interview he mentioned the audience whether what they are hearing is completely or check whether they have heard this before. Only in recent songs I have seen IR use loops predominantly..not sure how many have been used "off-the-shelf" and how many are programmed. But he has been adding his own chords/basslines to it.
In essence, the recent trend in composition put IR at an unfair advantage because the songs coming are a total collaboration effort with the loop producers, bass guitarists and singers who are free to improvise and are modifying the tunes by the MDs.
In one interview, a mridangam artist mentioned, IR writes every rhythm syllable.
I hope you understand his point better now.

@ezy I hope you must have missed the early days of HCIRF and HCARRF throwing missiles at each other constantly. Sorry buddy you are atleast 5 years late by hub timelines. chill out...
As kiru has pointed out and I am seeing very frequently, the rejuvenated raaja has cracked open a way to use a 'off the shelf loop' in his style - this is very evident in the 'yuvanish' sounding celtic violin pieces and the 'violin banks' segment in 'Om Shanti ' album. this needs to be studied very closely and discussed. Even some trumpet sounds are not the 'real' trumpet sounds these days. As We have read earlier that he is the #2 purchaser of software and hardware purchaser in India after Rahman. There is something behind all this - There is a lot of leaf cover all these days and then voila comes rejuv raaja who surprised everyone with a Jagan Mohini which had a mixture of sounds, three in his old style and two (Nilavu varum and Ponmani theril) from a new equipment. I think slowly this synth will become predominant enhancing sound, yet being 'Raaja's own creation. With the available clues, this is what Mr. Holmes will conclude I presume...

I dont know why my message was deleted? Is it because I said that such non-IR related discussion is unwarranted here? did i say something i should not have?

Kiru
I watched TIS videos and many other videos.I dont know what made you feel that i did not understand IR. I understand and I again reiterate that I am not contesting IR's opinion.My point is that IR SHOULD NOT be using loops, if he has such opinion. OR ELSE, if he is using loops, he should not be complaining about other composers.

ezy's argument was not pertinent to this thread.I was laughing out loud when he asked why ARR is into films and not doing what L.Shankar etc were doing? gosh,where were you in 1992? you should have offered this piece of advice to ARR back then, if you think that he should not be in films.
I have asked this before and i still wonder: Is ARR the only composer in India?Firstly, IR fans do not need to indulge in other composer bashing.and some do,ridiculously.And that too, as if there is no other composer in this country.I find it so silly and dumb. Why are some IR fans so obsessed with ARR?He operates in different sphere, with different approach,with different school of thought.Why is so difficult to accept that?Why dont IR fans crib about Pt.Hridaynath Mangeshkar then? or Mohana Sitara? or Shantanu Moitra? some posts, like ezy's reflect so much of jealousy and insecurity that i feel they completely missed the point.IR's music has so much of richness, that i dont even have time or thought to compare him with any other composer.He is in his own league. Why are people hell bent on proving that a line is small, so that another line is long. there are different lines (composers), in different axes, on different pages that too. Did ever R.D.Burman fans feel insecure about IR? or did MSV fans?it is silly and boring.This IR vs. ARR topic itself should be declared as null and void, because everything about them is totally different. It is like comparing John McLaughlin with John Williams. or Naseeruddin Shah with Aamir Khan?

Jaiganes,
You are right.Listen to the 2nd interlude of Ponmani Theril. I simply love the middle eastern ambience set there with guitars and percussion.Absolutely, but that piece sounds so familiar to me.No offence to IR but I have this strong feeling that i heard that bit somewhere. I never told that here in this forum, bcoz pple will go overboard with "impossible, prove it" kind of talk and I cannot prove it till i identify where i heard it.But i am sure i heard that small bit somewhere and i think it is loops (which must have been used by someone else somewhere).

If, by some miracle, IR invites all of us here to his recording sessions today, I am sure some of the hubbers here will be shocked, looking at the process. That said, I dont mean that he is completely techno driven.But he has become lot techno driven than any of us can imagine here.All this Live instrument - Live recording talk that we do. IR himself will laugh if he sees us defending him with such passion.ofcourse, he is capable of doing all that and still does, when it is needed.he alone decides that, while we people here construct only theories, about not only him..but also about 'other composers'.

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Originally Posted by raagas

If, by some miracle, IR invites all of us here to his recording sessions today, I am sure some of the hubbers here will be shocked, looking at the process. That said, I dont mean that he is completely techno driven.But he has become lot techno driven than any of us can imagine here.All this Live instrument - Live recording talk that we do. IR himself will laugh if he sees us defending him with such passion.ofcourse, he is capable of doing all that and still does, when it is needed.he alone decides that, while we people here construct only theories, about not only him..but also about 'other composers'.

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A slightly similar discussion we've been having from yesterday, especially with respect to romanticized legends....

Saw Paa ( Full house still ! ) - Balki has done a decent job with smart , bold ( i mean how many films do we see the hero says i forgot to use a condom to accept his affair ) liners, innocence, locales, right level of emotional quotient.

Raaja's music was quite apt - it carried the story in right proportions - it underscored where it should and pronounced more where it should be - after a long time raaja has used themes and morphed version of the songs in BGM. Except in very few places, the music was brilliant . ( Esp note the place when abhishek touches auro in the hospital ) .

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Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)

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Originally Posted by raagas

If, by some miracle, IR invites all of us here to his recording sessions today, I am sure some of the hubbers here will be shocked, looking at the process. That said, I dont mean that he is completely techno driven.But he has become lot techno driven than any of us can imagine here.All this Live instrument - Live recording talk that we do. IR himself will laugh if he sees us defending him with such passion.ofcourse, he is capable of doing all that and still does, when it is needed.he alone decides that, while we people here construct only theories, about not only him..but also about 'other composers'.

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A slightly similar discussion we've been having from yesterday, especially with respect to romanticized legends....

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In the movie Amadeus, what I felt very interesting was the fact that Mozart rejects a religious call and does what he feels like doing. He rejects anything that might be commercially more viable, he choses to tread on his own path, his own commercial choices choices that make him an unknown in his own place, his genius is not carefully branded and did not give a damn about how much money he is making. Today there are tonnes of experts in the net virtually giving Raaja a piece of advice on everything, right from what films he must accept and with whom he must collaborate and get pissed off if Raaja broke off a collaboration with entity X or entity Y. Needless things I say..

Well, what is next after the tremendous success of PR & pA?

Will he continue with at least one or two big name collabs in 2010 ? :-)

Sure, he may provide gems for unknowns as in the case of chal chalEin. However, it doesn't hurt to work with the likes of Balki, and polish some of his poorly recorded yesteryear gems, isn't it? :-)

I would definitely want next Balki film to come up - with rework of songs like 'vizhiyilE malarndhadhu '!

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Originally Posted by app_engine

Well, what is next after the tremendous success of PR & pA?

Will he continue with at least one or two big name collabs in 2010 ? :-)

Sure, he may provide gems for unknowns as in the case of chal chalEin. However, it doesn't hurt to work with the likes of Balki, and polish some of his poorly recorded yesteryear gems, isn't it? :-)

I would definitely want next Balki film to come up - with rework of songs like 'vizhiyilE malarndhadhu '!

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app,
vizhiyilae - rework.
No app. enna oru azhagana paatu.
flute, guitar , violin spb voice nu ella
original sound oda azhaga irukara paatai - Kandipa
IR REWORK seiya kudadhu ...
IR melayae enaku kobam vandhudum.

Seidha tune kae oru pechu - IR ku different aga tune seiya
theiryalai. ahdan ipadi rework seiyarar nu.
80s songs - All are Original sounded. So andha padalai
IR kandipa use panna vendam, idhan ennoda opinion.

For 2010, we actually do not know what is in store.
The situation is no different to the one when 2009 started..
If you can recollect, There was no news about PAA, not sure about release of NaanKadavul and even PR release was not clear.

we were only looking at Valmiki, and Baghyadevatha then..

IR seems to be in good form and hopefully we will be treated the same way as in 2009.

raagas,

I think that serious music lovers are facing the same dilemma that the photographers and photography enthusiast faced when digital photography was introduced and tools like Adobe Photoshop became available. Given these powerful tools, it was getting difficult to say which was an original photo and which was 'photoshoped'!! The question became, who can be called a good photographer?

I think the same dilemma exists in the minds of many music lovers. And I believe no one is talking about real / acoustic vs 'unreal' instruments. I think what everyone is meaning is the difference between 'fully composed' music and 'composed cum arranged cum bought' music. It becomes difficult to compare the output of music directors like Raja who predominantly stick to 'I will compose everything' school versus all others of today who are OK with taking in commercially available loops / samples in their music. Ofcourse, the general public does not care about this distinction and vote with their money for whichever music they like. But for some serious listeners, this does stand in the way of assessing the relative merits of various composers.

One way this can be surmounted is for the composers to clearly mention which parts of their music were taken from which commercially available sample / loop etc. As we know even the name of the person that comes in and claps twice is mentioned in the inlay card nowadays and it is laudable. If the music directors will also mention their sources it will be even more laudable. But as you know, giving credit to your music sources is a very different ball game from giving credit to musicians.

Actor Vinoo Chakravarthy, who is in self exile because of an injury sustained in a car accident, will announce his first directorial venture in Jan 2010 and keen to have IR's music for that movie.

raagas,

I do not buy your argument that you cannot distinguish between less and more and that it is subjective. A commercial loop that runs throughout the song is more and a small sample which appears briefly is less. My definition :) I am not debating on which is good or bad but saying that even if you use a small sample it is the same as using a loop throughout the song seems to be too much of a stretch and is taking things too literally.

Again the argument that if you are using some tool then if others use the same tool for a different purpose it is OK is like saying that if you are using a knife to cut vegetables it is OK for someone else to use the same knife to kill someone !! Please don't take this to my comparing any MDs. It is just to say that you are stretching the argument too thin. Again, going by the photography thing, there are many good photographers who use Adobe to give some effects but within certain limits and they do criticize those who use Adobe for lot more.For example, many photographers feel that using Adobe to give filter effects is fine but getting something into the scene which was never there is not fine. But going by your argument, people can say 'if you have used Adobe, you have no right to criticize another one who used Adobe for a different purpose'. More than us, music directors have the right to publicize their aesthetic concerns and we need to understand it in that light. I think Raja may have a genuine concern that music composition is no longer real composition and I don't find it wrong in him expressing what he feels should be the limit of technology. You may disagree with his assessment but you cannot argue that 'you should not use loops if you want to criticize anyone'.

everything depends on ones perspective, understanding and exposure

ex - for me the 1st time i listened to the TIME album (1999), i cudnt listen to any of the tracks more than once, until i came to "niram pirithhu" - the other tracks had too many synth/loop usage - though 'thavikkiren' was good despite synth/loop usage - technical makkals may correct me

AFAIK, a song is genuine and good, if its eminently singable/hummable all by itself, without the orchestration - if the orchestration is equally hummable and gels perfectly with the original context/theme of the base tune, it gets a double nod - its in this context that IR had set a benchmark - on occasions, he may have fallen short of either the tune or the orchestration, but makes up for it with either of them (there are certain tracks, for instance, where i dont care for the tune, but the lilting strings usage in the interlude or the interlude might just be breezily jazzy as in the second interlude of 'en uyire' from "poonthotta kaavalkaran")

what IR probably refers to are those kind of 'outputs' where the effort of the composer is getting lesser and lesser but still the composer gets the 'credit'

as a digression - of late, IR's tracks have usage of strings, that are either getting too complex/layered and i cant hum the interludes - the use of strings in the 1st interlude of 'oli tharum' is so minimalistic and subtle by even IR standards, that i need to listen to it actually, rather than play the interlude 'inside' my head (this kind of playing music 'inside' my head, is something IR's music has done to me, i must admit) - i have been noticing this ever since 1993 (his symphony year) - maybe the hand of karthik raja's style, maybe IR decided enough with his string ensemble style, and stopped being bombastic with the exception of a Guru, a PR or a TiS - i dont know the exact reason

and then i get to hear 'ottesi chebutha' 'om shanti om' which have 'am a loop, am a loop' screaming all over the tracks, with very little of IR's handiwork in them!

now i am prompted to listen to others' use of loops and how they differ from IR, or, viceversa!

I'm really unable to understand why the comments written by me and ezy0265 have been deleted.

What u people r trying to show?
Jaiganes writes on ezy0265 'Sorry buddy you are atleast 5 years late by hub timelines.'

What's all these?
U people don't encourage new hubbies..
u have a circle ( i don't know by which 'unique similarity' u people have been connected? NRIs?)

Give response to the people who are coming with their own idea..

I can mention many idiotic conversations between u people.
I strongly condemn that u people have deleted our comments..

Senior Hubbers should respond to my complaint..

Mohanraja,

I don't have a clue on what you wrote or who deleted it but I can assure you that there is no 'circle' here. As you rightly said, we have had enough 'idiotic conversations' here and everyone is free to join. Even non-NRIs, me being one :D

I am sure the mods would have taken exception to some comments and deleted the post so as to prevent any major flames. But that is for the mods to clarify to you. All I can say is that the moment you post here, you are part of the 'inner circle' :)

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Originally Posted by Sureshs65

raagas,

I do not buy your argument that you cannot distinguish between less and more and that it is subjective. A commercial loop that runs throughout the song is more and a small sample which appears briefly is less. My definition :) I am not debating on which is good or bad but saying that even if you use a small sample it is the same as using a loop throughout the song seems to be too much of a stretch and is taking things too literally.

Again the argument that if you are using some tool then if others use the same tool for a different purpose it is OK is like saying that if you are using a knife to cut vegetables it is OK for someone else to use the same knife to kill someone !! Please don't take this to my comparing any MDs. It is just to say that you are stretching the argument too thin. Again, going by the photography thing, there are many good photographers who use Adobe to give some effects but within certain limits and they do criticize those who use Adobe for lot more.For example, many photographers feel that using Adobe to give filter effects is fine but getting something into the scene which was never there is not fine. But going by your argument, people can say 'if you have used Adobe, you have no right to criticize another one who used Adobe for a different purpose'. More than us, music directors have the right to publicize their aesthetic concerns and we need to understand it in that light. I think Raja may have a genuine concern that music composition is no longer real composition and I don't find it wrong in him expressing what he feels should be the limit of technology. You may disagree with his assessment but you cannot argue that 'you should not use loops if you want to criticize anyone'.

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Suresh,

when i meant it is subjective, i mean by relative standing point.More or less is totally relative.Shankar Jaikishan began competing with Naushad and started using 100+ member orchestra.Now there were people who enjoyed music made through such huge set up and there were also people who criticized that fad and appreciated minimalistic arrangements of S.D.Burman, Ravi, Madan Mohan etc.Who is right? who is wrong?I understand your definition of more or less. But what is more for IR, is probably normal for any other composer. When IR complains about loops,I do not disagree with him.He speaks my mind.But then,music made with loops also has become a genre by itself now.Atleast thats how i see it.Like say, Lounge Music.the musical richness is less and its more of sounds in lounge music.but it has become a genre.You might compare IR with a photographer who uses Adobe at times but I see him as a painter firstly, not even a photographer.I never doubted IR's genuine concern and i myself subscribed to his concern.But then, i hear his own "Om Shanti" or some songs which have loops (popular loops that too, which have already been used by other MDs) and i say to myself "Oh my dear IR,you too?but you just complained!! why double standards!!". Now, why should my idol let such a thought creep into my mind?

Secondly, IR was one of the pioneers, in adapting technology.He opened the gates for technology to come into music.Today, there is an overdose.I think thats bound to happen, like it or dislike it.

Thanx Suresh..
I'm a great fan of raja but i never praise him for his recent worthless compositions. According to me raja has done his best from '79 to '85.

ezy0265 has written abt rahman. His points are really valid.
Hope u people haven't forgot that i've given a tight slap to Charu on his irresponsible and idiotic comments on raja in my blog. But no one from ur side ( I really don't want to be appreciated for just a small artcile!Honestly) have given me good comments. Leave it. It's not an issue. Senior hubbers like rajasaranam still believe that charu is a good writer. I know abt that guy very well as I'm in Delhi for the last 6 yrs (though he has left delhi before my coming , my friends used to tell abt him! I'm working as an freelance illustrator for uyirmmai also. I strongly condemned Manushyaputran for publishing charu's idiotic 'reviews'. He really had no answers!)


I'm a regular reader of ut thread, and felt very bad that my comments were deleted.

What else I can say?

This thread has become yet another thread where any negative comments on Raja aren't tolerated. It is very unfortunate that so called fans take it personal when someone posts negatively either about IR or about his compositions. As such, none of our comments really affect IR a bit, and hence, if someone doesn't like any of the comments, it is better to ignore than to respond and create a flutter unnecessarily.

Mohanraj,

I understand you feeling bad about comments being deleted. As I said, unless there have been posts which have the potential to create a major flame, the moderators generally don't interfere. Maybe ezy had some points about Rahman but if they had the potential of creating unwanted furore, the mods may have decided to remove it.

I wouldn't agree with vem about negative comments being deleted. Infact many threads have carried comments which are 'negative' and there have been lot of discussion around those comments as well. I am sure everyone welcomes all types of comments as long as they don't create unnecessary controversies.

raagas,

It is true that many an artist, who probably did not like the way things were going, had to adapt himself / herself to the trend if they had to stay relevant. I believe Raja understands this much better than anyone else. Most of the music directors in the past, including some you mentioned, lost their relevance when they couldn't adapt to changing times. Raja stays relevant because he is adapting to the times, whether we like it or not. At the same time he may not feel good about certain things. An artist will always have to deal with this paradox in changing times and honestly I am happy that Raja chooses to fight by changing his style rather than become an elder spokesman who just keeps cribbing.

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Originally Posted by Sureshs65

It becomes difficult to compare the output of music directors like Raja who predominantly stick to 'I will compose everything' school versus all others of today who are OK with taking in commercially available loops / samples in their music.

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eh? i think raaja too has used "pre-constructed" samples.....so, raaja too comes into the territory of "others" in this arguement......but why do you need to compare MDs on basis of loops-usage? im sure a MD who relies completely on loops has a bad taste for arranging those loops too......i think its pretty obvious - difference betn a talented guy like yuvan and a loops-assembler like himesh isnt it?

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Originally Posted by Suresh65

One way this can be surmounted is for the composers to clearly mention which parts of their music were taken from which commercially available sample / loop etc. As we know even the name of the person that comes in and claps twice is mentioned in the inlay card nowadays and it is laudable. If the music directors will also mention their sources it will be even more laudable. But as you know, giving credit to your music sources is a very different ball game from giving credit to musicians.

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suresh, i get where u r "getting at" :D .......i dont understand how the purpose of crediting musicians and crediting loops-sources is "same".......if you understand how our industry works then "crediting musicians" is the primary step in direction of copyrights.....loops-source hmmm it could be a common source like the ones that come with Apple logic pro s/w (or something similar) - i dont understand why we need to credit Microsoft whenever we develop a program in VisualC++ , we have already paid for the license rite ?? what i meant, there mite not be a specific person behind composing loops, it could be a company or orgnisation which requires only fees and not credits

I was thinking this thread was to discus Raja's new albums...

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Originally Posted by MADDY

loops-source hmmm it could be a common source like the ones that come with Apple logic pro s/w (or something similar) - i dont understand why we need to credit Microsoft whenever we develop a program in VisualC++ , we have already paid for the license rite ?? what i meant, there mite not be a specific person behind composing loops, it could be a company or orgnisation which requires only fees and not credits

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LOL!! you don't need to credit MS for code you write urself using VC++, just like you don't have to credit Korg/Yamaha for composing tracks using their instruments. But if you reuse code snippets from MS or any other piece of software, whether its open source and available out there or you stole it, you better credit the source. Same applies to loops. The excuses people make to justify their world view..... :roll:

Suresh,

It is perfectly understandable that IR needs to balance a lot of things to stay relevant. And yes, IR is not composing for a few selected hubbers like us here, to tailor his product according to our likes.There were scores of IR songs that i disliked during his 80s period.And even 90s.So, I am not expecting his every work now to be a good one.2009 was simply fabulous, in which i liked many and disliked few. Thats fine.But in the process of adapting, I wouldnt be quite happy if he changes his style completely.The underlying signatures need to be there.As long as they are there, I can lap it up (it is not even my conscious decision.. liking it or disliking it, happens by its own).Kai Veesi has a different IR, but with his signatures.I enjoyed it.But i cant say the same about "Om Shanti".I enjoy Ponmani Theril,but i could not enjoy "Ilamai Kanavugal"(Dhanam).I hope you get the 'kind' of music that i wish from IR.if he dishes that,I enjoy and if he doesnt, i play the plethora of stuff he gave me.

I am just not comfortable with the loops IR. Om Shanti is a washout. Frankly, if he is evolving is what this means, I dont want this evolution.
(mera number aa gaya :lol: )

BTW, one of the links on Om Shanti put here had a comment that IR was approached for the movie on Srinivasan Ramanujam. I really wish that is true.

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Originally Posted by Plum

I am just not comfortable with the loops IR. Om Shanti is a washout. Frankly, if he is evolving is what this means, I dont want this evolution.
(mera number aa gaya :lol: )

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This forum should have "Like" button, similar to the one in facebook :)