The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

"viggop"

//Sudhaama ...I think Krishna tempts Karna that he can marry Draupadi provided Karna joins the Pandavas.Krishna ,being her closest friend,
uses her as his pawn in the great game //

No. Not So... Krishna never treated Draupadi so cheap ... Nor her Husbands Pandavas... nor Draupadi herself....

... but in fact all of them ESPECIALLY DRAUPADI ... had a burning Heat of Revenge within them... against Karna..

... that Draupadi was defamed MAINLY BECAUSE OF KARNA's instigation.... Duryodana implemented... IMMODESTY.. a grave injustice to an inocent Woman...and Queen Draupadi..

Even Krishna was much upset and terribly angry with Karna... for his such a shameful act caused by him.... even in spite of Karna being a NOBLE-MAN... (unlike his Friend Duroyodana ... an Embodiment of all the Inhuman-Qualities)

So it was beyond even a dream for Krishna to make Karna amicable with Pandavas...

...except to persuade Karna for his avoiding support to Adharma's Victory by means of his taking side with Duryodana.

We have to note that Krishna asked Kunthi to reveal her identity as the Mother of Karna as her son ... and also allowed Karna to know his brotherhood with Pandavas...

... but until Karna's death.. Krishna never allowed Pandavas or Draupadi to know of Karna's unknown blood- relation with Pandavas as their brother... another Son of Kunthi...

Because Krishna did fear of the probable development of complacency in Pandavas for antagonsing the sinful criminal Karna... especially in case of Draupadi...
.
After Kunthi's failure in making Karna to fall in line with Pandavas ... or at least to keep off the brotherly dispute....

Krishna met Karna..and persuaded on the dire necessity of fetching Victory for Righteousness ... and how Karna being the Son of SUN has more responsibility than others... and why it was unfair to support Duryodana ... the total shape of Evil-forces ....

... the highly meaninful discussions between them... brings out Karna's whole Heart... coupled with High Wisdom the ONE FACE of Karna... the Good side of his NOBLE character towards Righteousness....

Karna reveals to Krishna that he agrees with all the justifications on the Pandavas side...

...and that knowingly he has to fight against Dharma... as also against his own blood- related brothers....

The most important factor here is that he confidentially reveals to Krishna...

..."that he knew well that ultimately Pandavas will win" ...

...because Dharma is on their side... while Duryodana's side was Adharma...

... However... just for one man Duryodana's Sake... he would fight with whole-hearted sincere support for him... and even will die for him...

... as a Duty towards a Friend who fully trusts him... as also as a mark of Gratitude to Duryodana for support at his critical moments... when others all around condemned and rejected him at such helpless challenging occasions...

This shows the Greatness of Karna ... the GOOD side.by one Face... while his OTHER FACE ...was a CRIMINAL one....

Karna is a COMPLEX- CHARACTER. of Contra- distinction... Very difficult to define wholly and understand him well..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

... that Draupadi was defamed MAINLY BECAUSE OF KARNA's instigation.... ..

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this the ONLY black mark in Karna the legend, enough to spoil his character

KARNA the Complex of ... MAN & the BEAST ... TWO Opposite Faces....

"Sudhaama" :-- //... Draupadi was defamed MAINLY BECAUSE OF KARNA's instigation..//

"Raghu":-- .//... this the ONLY black mark in Karna the legend, enough to spoil his character //

ONLY Black-mark?....Now I will put forth the contra-distinctory Characters of his both the Faces ...

MANs Face on one side and the BEAST's Face on the Other side.....

(A) BEAST -Face... the CRIMINAL Karna...

(1) While Karna was basically a NOBLE-MAN with high Principles of EMULATIVE- IDEALS .... his intimate Friend, Duryodana was the opposite to his Propensity of Noblity by Character... in every sense.. ... being an embodiment of... Jealousy, Greed,Wickedness, Vengeance, Hatred, Hypocricy, Oppression, Domination, Selfishness, Tyranny and Injustice ... Mainly... JEALOUSY. and GREED

When Duryodana expressed to his Friend Karna.... his peaceless mind due to the Invincible advancement by valour and Fame of Pandavas outweighing Kauravas in one and all respecs .... Karna kindles such a negative Life-approach by a Sick-mind in Duryodana ..... by repeatedly advising him that they both would jointly avenge Pandavas ...

Was there anything to avenge or revenge or treat anybody as ENEMIES... just because he is more competent in any talent, outweighing all others... Was it not necessary for a Sportive-spirit there... instead of Battle- spirit? Other than exhibiting their better talent than all others.. what harm or injustice Pandavas had done to Kauravas? ... But one-sided Enmity of Duryodana sheerly out of Jealousy and Greed...

...on which Pandavas could not help.. Just for pleasing Duryodana... should they get defeated FALSELY in the Games... although they were capable of winning or performing as the best of emulative talents?

Karna could have advised Duryodana to beat out Pandavas... with a COMPETITIVE APPROACH... instead of COMBATIVE-APPROACH between the Brothers... because he knew about the values of Dharma, the Righteousness as also the suicidal trend of sick-mindedness by Jealousy, Greed and Wickedness... By which healthy persuasion, Duryodana might have got awakened on reconsideration through Positive- thinking.... at least..in the long run. Such a healthy aaproach from a trustworthy friend Karna would have definitely made an impact in the one-side minded Duryodana.... If not total reversal of Duryodana as topsy-turvy... at least it could have developed a healthy challenging attitude by means of Introspection, Self- improvementt and could have lead towards at least a check on his rash determination... to radically antagonise and finish the Pandavas at any cost.... Rather Karna was a party to FANNING, INSTIGATING AND JUSTIFYING... Duryodana's wicked Intention and Deeds... right from the beginning of his Friendship.

(2) Bheeshma was the most competent and authoritative Mediator between both the sides ... being the highly respected Senior-family-member as well as the high Intellectual, sincerely NEUTRAL AND IMPARTIAL.

Whereas by means of repeated surmisive and baseless blames, .Karna created Hatred and Disbelief in the mind of Duryodana towards Bheeshma... that the latter was partial, one-sided and highly favouring Pandavas to the radical detriment to Kauravas.

Consequently Karna and Bheeshma often had a bitter arguments resulting in an unending mutual-hatred... and whenever Duryodana was persuaded by his parents along with Bheeshma ... it was Karna... who UNNECESSARILY and UNCALLED FOR ... plunges himself in between.... thwarting the healthy endeavour of all others with the leadership of Bheeshma ... towards an amicable settlement ensuring peace in the country without war... ensuring eschewance of bitterness between the brothers.... caused UNREASONABLY AND UNJUSTLY... but only by SENSELESS AND RASH Antagonism to all such peaceful efforts towards development of amity...

Only by such NEGATIVE INSTIGATIONS by ONE AND THE SOLE person the trusted Friend of highly Noble-character basically...Duryodana became more and more ENRAGED that he was forsaken by all except his Friend Karna.... and developed more Hatred and Jealousy towards Pandavas.... as the MOST BITTER DIAMETRICAL ENEMIES... who werte trying tograb away his legitimate ownership on Kingdom... while Pandavas has no right in any manner.

(3) Pandavas were prepared to get contented with just at least Five Houses only as their due share ... which offer was conveyed by Krishna their Ambassador.. representing on their behalf... Such a proposal was acceptable and supported by all (while Duryodana was the silent spectator initially).. Karna alone vehemently opposed it... saying Pandavas had no legal claim nor moral right to even stay within Duryodana's Legitimate Kingdom. Enthused by such instigative encouraging and justifying words from his trustworthy Friend, ... Duryodana declares that he would not allow to Pandavas even a Pin-head space of property ... which was exclusive to Kauravas only.

Thus all the peaceful efforts came to an End... because of one single sole interference of KARNA ONLY..

... To Continue..

can somebody clarify :

Dhridrashtra was elder to Pandu and was as such the rightful successor to be the King....However, since he was visually impaired...Pandu was crowned the king....to act in his elder brothers place.....so he was just an acting king.....

Being Dhridrashtra's eldest son, was Duryodhana not entitled to be crowned as the next king?........How does it matter that Yudishtra was born ahead of Duryodhana..........

Also , by lineage, Yudishtra and other other Pandus were not the bloodline of Pandu..... In that case how can they lay any claim for ruling the country..

Vir
discrimination against the visually challenged was not against the law then!!!
Atleast duryodhana could have given back the Indraprastha which pandavas built after they came back from dwelling in the forest for 14 years.he could have kept the hastinapura to himself but he refused to give even a pin head of land.
Greed and jealousy will always lead to downfall.

In fact, according to the prevailing Dharmashastras of that time, a son born blind, deaf or otherwise impaired was automatically disinherited!

Dear Sudhama Sir,

Yes, what Karna did was adharma in our view, ie supporting his evil friend Duryodhana, that was Karna's dharma according to him.
he thought, to pay Duryodhana for bringing him up, he would sacrifice his life, no matter what, and that is exactly what he has done. so according to him he has accomplished his dharma.

this why I find dharma so confusing :? :? :? , what is dharma to one may be an adharma to others, I don't find any concrete platform for dharma.

Could you please enlighten me on this. :?

thank you

"vir"

// Dhridrashtra was elder to Pandu and was as such the rightful successor to be the King....However, since he was visually impaired...Pandu was crowned the king....to act in his elder brothers place.....so he was just an acting king....//.

Pandu was not crowned as an ACTING-KING... but as a King himself... because Dhrithrashtra lost his chance... as also his lineage heirs ... as per the then existed Dharma-Sasthra ... However Sasthras were NOT RIGID on the matter but gave enough room for flexibility of options.

// Being Dhridrashtra's eldest son, was Duryodhana not entitled to be crowned as the next king?........How does it matter that Yudishtra was born ahead of Duryodhana..//

In fact Mahabharatha fight was in between the TWO GROUPS OF HEIRS... one by the latest Monarchy and the other Ex-Monarchy.... Both have their own points of justifications...

That is why... on the advice of Krishna... Pandavas were prepared to share half of the Empire equally amongst Kauravas and Pandavas... as the right of Pandu on one side and the same equally for Dhrithrashtra on the other.

// Also , by lineage, Yudishtra and other other Pandus were not the bloodline of Pandu..... In that case how can they lay any claim for ruling the country..//

In the Property or Kingdom ownership... such consideration is immaterial. .. especially when there was no competiotor for Pandavas... as the Pandu's born children.

The most interesting Basic-factor in Mahabharatha is... that behind every odd or untoward development ...

... there was a hidden mistake or blunder by one of the Key- Persons ... Good or Bad.... without which there would not have been any Epic of Mahabharatha at all.... a Warning Lesson to Humanity. eternally

One such best example of the BADs...is... the INCONSISTENCY of Bheeshma.

At the earlier juncture...Bheeshma turned down the proposal to make Dhrithrashtra as the King...because of his physical handicap...

... and so his younger brother Pandu.. was enthroned (Pandu had NO legal-right.. to occupy the throne... being younger to Dhrithrashtra)

But while the similar consideration came once again... after Pandu's death... Dhrithrashtra's Physical-Handicap was ignored and was made as the SECOND KING... after his younger brother Pandu..

.. But Bheeshma found out a solution.... by making Dhrithrashtra's brother Vidhura ( an intelluctual warrior) as the King's adviser...

Whatever it may be ... both the Resonings are INCONSISTENT. as well as INTRA-CONTRADICTORY...

If the former justification was Right and Proper... the latter one cannot be so since contradictory... and Vice-versa.

The starting point for all the subsequent confusions was this BLUNDER. of RIDICULOUS Self-contradiction... by the Wise Senior Leader of the Heirarchy.

But most of the Scholars do not contribute to such a Negative view on Bheeshma, but interpret his actions and thoughts in a Positive Healthy way... on which we will see later.

"viggop"


// discrimination against the visually challenged was not against the law then!!! //

No Question of Discrimination... It is the matter of COMPETENCE TO EFFECTIVELY PERFORM THE DUTY of a King / Emperor.... more than the factor of his BIRTHRIGHT.....

Because.. Peoples welfare shoud not be in jeopardy due the Kings Handicap... either physically or by competence to be the Proper Ruler.. to carry out all his duties efficiently.

Pandu was preferred over Dhrithrashtra...by the Advisory-committe of Scholars... considering all the relevant factors in totality... not only the Visual handicap of Dhrithrashtra.

There have been several cases in the History and Puranas... where the Eldest brother was not enthroned... but one of his younger brothers... on consideration of the comparative suitabilty amongst different brothers and such heirs... to rule over the Kingdom... safeguarding the reputation of the Ancestry... defending the country confronting the probable attacks from the Enemies.. and so on.. as applicable to a Ruler.

// Atleast duryodhana could have given back the Indraprastha which pandavas built after they came back from dwelling in the forest for 14 years.he could have kept the hastinapura to himself but he refused to give even a pin head of land.//

Because of Karna's Strong objection ... to allow Pandavas to reside within the Duryodanas country... even though the nation of birth for Pandavas too.

Pandava Vana-vaasam... 14 years? .... No.. That was in Ramayana. But in Mahabharatha.. it was 13 years... (12+1 )

//Greed and jealousy will always lead to downfall.//]

Yes... with any amount of SUPPORTING- MIGHTS ... one may acquire..!!

There we can see the God's Hand working behind and against such nefarious Forces... especially as the RULER

"Raghu",

// what Karna did was adharma in our view, ie supporting his evil friend Duryodhana, that was Karna's dharma according to him….. he thought, to pay Duryodhana for bringing him up, he would sacrifice his life, no matter what, and that is exactly what he has done. so according to him he has accomplished his dharma.…. I find dharma so confusing :? :? :? , what is dharma to one may be an adharma to others, I don't find any concrete platform for dharma…Could you please enlighten me on this. :? //

Karna’s sincere “ Sense of GRATITUDE “ .. is No doubt quite laudable

..And his spirit of INDEBTEDNESS as well as the accrued sense of Duty of repayment towards all the benefits he got from his Duryodana ... .There is NO ADHARMA in it

Even in his Sacrifice towards such a NOBLE-CAUSE on one side ..OK

But at WHAT COST?... There arises the Question of DHARMA- SANGATAM .. a Clash between Two sorts of Dharmas. Which one to be PREFERRED?

There only Karna. SLIPPED and committed a BLUNDER of ANTAGONISING Dharma

Can anybody kill his own Son. UNJUSTLY?....just to save his Sheep ?