IR's New albums - Ver 2008/2009

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Originally Posted by Sureshs65

While I agree that there are many Illayaraja songs where the rhythm is steay, especially in the charanam, but there are equal number of songs where the rhythm is pretty tricky. Infact from a complexity point of view, when it comes to rythm, I don't think Rahman's rhythm have the same sort of complexity as Raja's rhythm. Would suggest people to read Vicky's blog where he analyzes how Illayraja uses various rhythmic cycles like mishra chapu etc and also how he uses different 'edupus'. Rahman's rhythms are very catchy no doubt but when it comes to the overall complexity I would say that Illayraja's rhythms are far ahead. Just listen to 'Lovely Lita' from the Telugu movie Shambu to have an idea of what I mean. And I am not even talking about how wonderfully the bass guitar always adds to this complexity. That's probably a different subject by itself.

S.Suresh

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:) I hope I didnt discuss complexity, coz like Kiru, what I meant was variation in rhythm, not necessarily the complexity. Suresh, could you please get me some online links for some of the songs you are referring to. I would love to rediscover this aspect of IR's music. May be some I wouldnt have listened to, some listened to yet not paid attention. And I also hope that their numbers are substantial, otherwise I might be tempted jot them down as exceptions :)

Regarding his bass guitar, I always get a feeling that they are not married to the rhythm in background. Mostly they are like counter melodies, sometimes they dont even repeat like a riff. In many cases, bass guitar plays the notes of other instruments but not the percussion.

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Thamizh, if you want energy in IR songs ..I just heard naan thaanda ippa devadaas, aahaya gangai, aathu mEttula ..etc these are rhythm driven, which variations and all the energy. For melody - aazhak kadalil theEdiya muthu (really miss kannadhasan).

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Listening to podhuvaaga from murattu kalai now :wink: Perhaps I put it across differently, will discuss it in a different thread. IR and ARR have absolutely contrasting ways of bringing energy into their songs as well as while bringing out other emotions also.

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Originally Posted by Sureshs65

Your post is quite educative on the recording techniques. In many cases of Raja's songs, I do feel the bass is very soft and you have to strain to catch the bass. That sometimes pains me because Raja's bass work is great. In most of the songs of the current composers you can see that the bass level is quite high and is very much audible. In the more recent songs of Raja I have found the bass levels a bit high but the earlier songs always had lower bass level. Any particular reason?

S.Suresh

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In a old interview, ARR's bassist keith peters was asked what is the major change you have seen in post 90's music scene... He was quick to point out that bass levels has increased a lot since rahman arrived.

Suresh, its not just the current composers, Bass was always more prominent even in the classic Jazz and rock songs... just that our composers always felt that it shudnt interfere in their songs.

Hi Tamizh,

I don't have the online links with me now. If you check the Sharing IR thread you can get links to what Rajasaranam has uploaded. It has songs of Shambu and also the songs of Yugandhar. Listen to 'Naa Paruvam' to have an idea of what I meant by complexity. As I said, you can check out the songs listed by Vicky in his blog. Unfortunately I don't have any online links for them either. I am sure Raja has done enough on the rhythm side to be more than exceptions. Infact they are exceptional :) Maybe we do require a separate thread to discuss this aspect.

I was talking about the Indian composers when I was speaking about the bass levels. Bass has always been prominent in rock music.

S.Suresh

Suresh,

I think there is a seperate thread in rhythm arrangements in IR section. I cant quite locate it.

Tamizh,

I will also check for that thread and maybe we can continue the rhythm discussion there.

S.Suresh

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Originally Posted by Sureshs65

. In many cases of Raja's songs, I do feel the bass is very soft and you have to strain to catch the bass. That sometimes pains me because Raja's bass work is great. In most of the songs of the current composers you can see that the bass level is quite high and is very much audible. In the more recent songs of Raja I have found the bass levels a bit high but the earlier songs always had lower bass level. Any particular reason?

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I disagree. Bass guitar is (was?) Raaja's signature and im talking about 80s here and not the recent songs. And TV sonna madhiri, in many cases the bass will function as a counter melody, taking the 'lead', so to speak. I mean you can't miss the lines... Maybe during the period in the 90s many melodies had very 'typical' (by Raaja's standards) bass lines which were rather mild..

Now to pacify raja_fan :) here is my review of 'Manikandan Geeta Mala'.

Now, this is not a typical bhakti album, like many other Ayyapan albums available in the market. Illayaraja, as usual, questions or fixed ideas on how a bhakti album should be. So this may appeal to some people and may not appeal to others. Here is my review of the songs.

Katre Katre Nillu : To me the best song is at the beginning. Like 'Meghasandesam', here the singer appeals to the air to carry Ayyapan's name to all ears. The orchestration is minimal and Raja somehow conjures up the effect of a mild breeze with this tune. The total effect is one of great melody. Is this a suitable tune for a bhakti song? You can argue on that but not about the melody.

Irumudi Kattukulle : This is more a typical tuning and can be played on the loudspeakers. Based probably on Vakulabaranam, (I am not sure), the charanams, especially when the high notes are hit, is very charming. The tune is typical Raja, with its twists and turns in the charanam.

Ayyappan Azhaikamal : Starts softly and the interludes have nice flutes. Again nothing expansive done in the interludes. The main focus is on the tune.

Bhaktanin Bharangal : Starts off in a racy way with the tabla playing a constant beat. The idea of the song seems to be that of anger in the initial stages and the chorus brings in a calming effect. Nice shenai usage in the interlude.

Engum Boologathil: Lovely song. Not able to get the ragam but seems to be closely allied to Hamsanandi. The songs starts of beautifully and when the chorus joins in the melody becomes even better. The interlude has hindustani style flute.

Udambellam oru romanjanam: A very melodious soft song which is very soft without turning sappy. The flute which comes in the prelude is lovely. A sense of calm prevails when you listen to this song.

Ayyappa Bhaktargal Ellam: I would probably rate this song as the best after 'Katre' but whether this would qualify as a bhakti song of Ayyappa is questionable. My feeling is that njv was probably referring to this song ' as being in a church'. The chorus is definitely western in nature but done in an excellent fashion. Showcases Raja's grip on this form of music.

Om enum pranavame: This is a typical carnatic krithi. Based on Hemavathi. Nothing much to say about this except that it is a nice song and sung well by Shankaran Namboodri.

In recent times I have heard some very highly hyped albums and felt quite let down. This album was dismissed earlier but I found this to be a very nice and listen to it almost daily.

Having said that, I agree that this album may not be everyone's cup of tea. Most of us would be expecting some semi-classical songs when it comes to bhakti albums and except for the last krithi, there is no song which wears its raga on its sleeve.

As I said earlier, it almost looks like Raja is questioning our prejudice when it comes to bhakti music. Why should it be only set to certain type of tunes and when we are talking about all devotees of Ayyappa being one, why not make all music one (choral music often not heard in Hindu bhakti albums.) These are some of the challenges that he throws up and asks us to question our own prejudices.

Would I recommend this unreservedly to everyone? Maybe not. As I said, if you are looking for a typical bhakti album, this may not be your cup of tea. In case you are looking for songs which give you some peace, give a sense of calm and some great melody, this is the album for you.

The lyrics are nothing to shout about. It is a mix of bhakti and philosophy. Very typical Illayaraja lyrics. They seemed to have just translated this to other languages. I have heard this album in Tamil, Telugu and Malayalam. Balu adds a touch of drama to the Telugu rendition, Vijay Jesudas and Madhu Balakrishnan do a nice job in Malayalam, while favorite is Illayaraja's rendition in Tamil.

S.Suresh

Rajkumar,

Fully agree with you about Raja's bass. It is definitely his signature. What I meant was from a recording perspective the bass was given lower volume and the other sounds were given more volume.

S.Suresh

Is 'Manikandan Geeta Mala' CD available in Chennai stores? and where?