Raaja - comparing 4 decades of musical output

RS nanri.

//genesis wrote:
More counter-views for Shaji's article.. From Jeyamohan's write-up it is clear that Shaji did have hidden agenda.

http://pitchaipathiram.blogspot.com/...g-post_25.html

http://chandanaar.blogspot.com/2010/...g-post_22.html

http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=6473


atleast some one is there to speak 4 raja. not just his koil poosaaris like us...

//
Thank u Jai ganesh.
Hope u remember me. I wanted to raise voice against shaji as his recent article on raja was baseless and with personal motive. That's y i gave a reply to him.
Thanks.

Punnaimaran enge? Where is he? We are waiting for him to continue his posts.

Even granting, a great benefit of doubt to Shaji and other IR detractors who vehmently argue that Raaja stagnated in the 90s, when you push them, they will say 1992 to be exact and when you quote some stunners from Avatharam, they will say that it is 1995 to be exact and if you show more gumption to show them kaala paani and oru yaathra mozhi and poonthottam and kadhalukku mariyaadhai and Guru(mal) , they will say well late 1999 to be precise and they wouldnt have realised that they are in the end of the decade - exactly when sethu and kasi happened. So it is difficult for them to be exact while we having savoured all those beauties can argue from a podium of balance.
So the real period they are choosing to attack for 'perceived' lack of quality is the previous decade from 2000 to 2010. My counter to all of them is this - while Raaja owing to his way of accepting 'projects' which is not business acumen driven, but rather intusion based, there will always be 'dhandams' most of which are because of the lameness of the context. However here too we can be pretty forceful by forcefully opening the wooden eyelids to gems like Pithamagan, Virumaandi, julie Ganapathy and so on. However the decade will be remembered for the most audacious experiment any Indian music composer has ever endeavored to set himself/herself upon - the Thiruvasagam. This will be the decade of thiruvasagam and in this decade he neednt have done anything else. I guess any other composer would have simply done thiruvasagam alone for 5 years and termed it 'Magnum Opus' and simply retired with pride and appreciation. So far it is the crowning glory and a massive moment of triumph and I am speechless and wordless before the awe it evokes in me. The polla vinayen song alone is enough to reduce any other contemporary composer hang his head in shame and seriously question the worth of their everyday work which to be fair has only one advantage - sounding contemporary. Can music sound timeless - undatable by sound dating specialists of the web era? can it transcend the bounds of definition set forth my puny little human minds which cannot comprehend the grandness of what they are witnessing and hearing? can it be relevant to an era of pure acoustic bliss at the same time as the date of this post in 2010 and for sure 20 years from now on? Who has done such a piece of music in the world in this decade or even in the decade before that? that which can be related to by any thamizh ear and yet cross boundaries to ones untrained in the mystic tradition of manicka vasagar. This is one thulasi dalam on the side of a scale while all the 'contemporary gold' on the other. How can one call himself a music critic sidestepping this colossal mountain and call Raaja a composer who stagnated and then do a freaking socio cultural analysis of rise and fall? what kind of analysis is this fly in the beer mug trying to assess why Mt.Everest is just 0Ft high in the foothills. What kind of maniacal editor provide a space for such an analysis and call himself a 'progressive' editor of a 'progressive literary magazine'? To state the obvious one would say that instead of apologizing and justifying the obvious crime one can just send a note of 'thank you' to Raaja and go back to post modernist deconstruction of empty contemporary art/music.

Jai,

Very well written.

What people do not seem to understand is that there is a gulf of difference between giving 'hit' songs and the creative process drying away. Prior to 1992, the fact was that the songs that he experimented and those which became 'hits' coincided a lot. As you also rightly point out, the choice of films in latter days left much to be desired and the necessary impact of the songs were not felt.

I was in Chennai during a three year period between 1995 and 1998. I saw many movies with good songs bite the dust, either because the movies were not so good or because the songs were not in keeping with the trend. Songs of Avatharam, for example, never topped in the Top 10 list. Songs of the other Naser film, 'Devadhai' also did not do to well. 'Poonthotam' again did not get the required exposure, 'meetadha oru veenai' giving way to some Deva or S A Rajkumar number!! Those were frustrating times when no one cared for some very good songs from 'Raman Abudullah' or 'Rajavin Parvayile'.

In short if someone were to tell me that Raja had lost the connect with popular music in Tamil, maybe I will agree. If they say that he did not adapt to the trend of those times and was left behind in the popularity stakes, I will agree. But I cannot agree if someone says that Raja had lost his creativity in 1990s. All the movies you pointed and more happened during 1990s and yes, Tiruvsagam happened in 2000s. Posting in a different thread I had mentioned that some of Raja's grandest films happened in 1990s. 'Dhalapathi', 'Kalapani' and 'Guru'. The first decade of this century had 'Virumandi', 'Mumbai Express', 'Pazhassi Raja' and ofcourse, the magnum opus 'Tiruvasagam'. If you were to give these films to any other current day music directors, you can rest assured that the fans will be talking about these movies for the next 20 yrs. We have got so used to Raja that we stop talking about 'Pazhassi Raja' a couple of months of its release and await the next offering!!

Some people do try and carbon date Raja's music and the funniest part was when one such person declared that there was nothing wrong with Raja but that he (the blogger) has moved ahead :lol: How can anyone 'move ahead' of quality music? By listening to 'borrowed music'? That is what film music in Hindi and Tamil is all about nowadays. Buy the best loop, buy the best samples and transpose some English song here and become a 'path breaking' experimentalist. Sigh. Asking for someone to create all parts of a song is a sin nowadays. I am OK with it but what gets your goat is when people come and tell you that Raja is not 'experimenting' as much as others!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sureshs65

Jai,

Very well written.

What people do not seem to understand is that there is a gulf of difference between giving 'hit' songs and the creative process drying away. Prior to 1992, the fact was that the songs that he experimented and those which became 'hits' coincided a lot. As you also rightly point out, the choice of films in latter days left much to be desired and the necessary impact of the songs were not felt.

I was in Chennai during a three year period between 1995 and 1998. I saw many movies with good songs bite the dust, either because the movies were not so good or because the songs were not in keeping with the trend. Songs of Avatharam, for example, never topped in the Top 10 list. Songs of the other Naser film, 'Devadhai' also did not do to well. 'Poonthotam' again did not get the required exposure, 'meetadha oru veenai' giving way to some Deva or S A Rajkumar number!! Those were frustrating times when no one cared for some very good songs from 'Raman Abudullah' or 'Rajavin Parvayile'.

In short if someone were to tell me that Raja had lost the connect with popular music in Tamil, maybe I will agree. If they say that he did not adapt to the trend of those times and was left behind in the popularity stakes, I will agree. But I cannot agree if someone says that Raja had lost his creativity in 1990s. All the movies you pointed and more happened during 1990s and yes, Tiruvsagam happened in 2000s. Posting in a different thread I had mentioned that some of Raja's grandest films happened in 1990s. 'Dhalapathi', 'Kalapani' and 'Guru'. The first decade of this century had 'Virumandi', 'Mumbai Express', 'Pazhassi Raja' and ofcourse, the magnum opus 'Tiruvasagam'. If you were to give these films to any other current day music directors, you can rest assured that the fans will be talking about these movies for the next 20 yrs. We have got so used to Raja that we stop talking about 'Pazhassi Raja' a couple of months of its release and await the next offering!!

Some people do try and carbon date Raja's music and the funniest part was when one such person declared that there was nothing wrong with Raja but that he (the blogger) has moved ahead :lol: How can anyone 'move ahead' of quality music? By listening to 'borrowed music'? That is what film music in Hindi and Tamil is all about nowadays. Buy the best loop, buy the best samples and transpose some English song here and become a 'path breaking' experimentalist. Sigh. Asking for someone to create all parts of a song is a sin nowadays. I am OK with it but what gets your goat is when people come and tell you that Raja is not 'experimenting' as much as others!!!

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Oh suresh ! dont even get me started at the current trend ...
it is like, let me bring in a chicken and a goat and let them share the same bed and breed me a 'gocken' and voila - next day Web crawls with hallelujahs to new 'fusion'.

Does anyone even ponder the beauty in Raaja's 'rearranging' of the padhigams in Polla vinayen song and how it fits well with the 'Oratorio' style and form much better after rearrangement. All the dismissive laments of Raaja's creativity are similar to the kid who stared at the ocean for an hour and saying ' it is too small for me to swim now' and then coming back and praising the 3 foot swimming pool as the deepest and profound swimming experience he has ever had.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

Even granting, a great benefit of doubt to Shaji and other IR detractors who vehmently argue that Raaja stagnated in the 90s, when you push them, they will say 1992 to be exact and when you quote some stunners from Avatharam, they will say that it is 1995 to be exact and if you show more gumption to show them kaala paani and oru yaathra mozhi and poonthottam and kadhalukku mariyaadhai and Guru(mal) , they will say well late 1999 to be precise and they wouldnt have realised that they are in the end of the decade - exactly when sethu and kasi happened. So it is difficult for them to be exact while we having savoured all those beauties can argue from a podium of balance.
So the real period they are choosing to attack for 'perceived' lack of quality is the previous decade from 2000 to 2010. My counter to all of them is this - while Raaja owing to his way of accepting 'projects' which is not business acumen driven, but rather intusion based, there will always be 'dhandams' most of which are because of the lameness of the context. However here too we can be pretty forceful by forcefully opening the wooden eyelids to gems like Pithamagan, Virumaandi, julie Ganapathy and so on. However the decade will be remembered for the most audacious experiment any Indian music composer has ever endeavored to set himself/herself upon - the Thiruvasagam. This will be the decade of thiruvasagam and in this decade he neednt have done anything else. I guess any other composer would have simply done thiruvasagam alone for 5 years and termed it 'Magnum Opus' and simply retired with pride and appreciation. So far it is the crowning glory and a massive moment of triumph and I am speechless and wordless before the awe it evokes in me. The polla vinayen song alone is enough to reduce any other contemporary composer hang his head in shame and seriously question the worth of their everyday work which to be fair has only one advantage - sounding contemporary. Can music sound timeless - undatable by sound dating specialists of the web era? can it transcend the bounds of definition set forth my puny little human minds which cannot comprehend the grandness of what they are witnessing and hearing? can it be relevant to an era of pure acoustic bliss at the same time as the date of this post in 2010 and for sure 20 years from now on? Who has done such a piece of music in the world in this decade or even in the decade before that? that which can be related to by any thamizh ear and yet cross boundaries to ones untrained in the mystic tradition of manicka vasagar. This is one thulasi dalam on the side of a scale while all the 'contemporary gold' on the other. How can one call himself a music critic sidestepping this colossal mountain and call Raaja a composer who stagnated and then do a freaking socio cultural analysis of rise and fall? what kind of analysis is this fly in the beer mug trying to assess why Mt.Everest is just 0Ft high in the foothills. What kind of maniacal editor provide a space for such an analysis and call himself a 'progressive' editor of a 'progressive literary magazine'? To state the obvious one would say that instead of apologizing and justifying the obvious crime one can just send a note of 'thank you' to Raaja and go back to post modernist deconstruction of empty contemporary art/music.

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Post of the decade. Period. :notworthy:

Bala,

I second you. Superb post by Jai. :notworthy:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaiganes

All the dismissive laments of Raaja's creativity are similar to the kid who stared at the ocean for an hour and saying ' it is too small for me to swim now' and then coming back and praising the 3 foot swimming pool as the deepest and profound swimming experience he has ever had.

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:lol: The most wonderful comparison if I have read one!! The shallowness is the experience !!

And may I add that the swimming experience was achieved with the aid of a tube around the waist as well!!

I also happened to reader another blogger who said that 'Tiruvasagam's ' main thing was the emotional content and that Raja destroyed it with his grand orchestration. I don't know what he heard!!! If someone has even an iota of taste and understanding of Tamil, he can easily see that Tiruvasagam transcends all orchestration and what is left behind is the emotional experience. It is very difficult to keep tears away from your eyes when a line like 'vanna panithennai vaa vendra vaan karunai' and this is just one such line. The whole album is strewn with so much emotional experience. I once told my friend that Raja had tried to capture all the peace in the world and express it through music in a line or two. And he almost succeeded when the chorus slowly builds on that fascinating Kalyani 'namahchivaya vaazhga naadan taal vazhga'. As you said, for any other music director with some good marketing strategy, this will be a lifelong acheivement!!

For those who haven't seen it yet, an excellent interpretation of the Kothumbi song here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uRx-...eature=related

Jai :thumbsup:. Please post this in JM's blog as comment and it will be more reachable