bg
there are so many jobs possible but not this type of selling one's flesh
this characterisation of KB was one unacceptable to me
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bg
there are so many jobs possible but not this type of selling one's flesh
this characterisation of KB was one unacceptable to me
HulksterQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulkster
I think though he didnt experiment with action movies , he did through his own production ( annamalai ) etc
there was a scenario once , any KB movie kamal will appear in brief....atleast in one scene.....
so many possible ! but doesnt this happen in real life ... take a character like that girl Kaveri in Mahanadhi .. do u think that she loves that profession ... what will happen to those who are forced to enter that profession .... ?
or lets keep it this way ... she,being raped once..n forced with many other ppl and being sent to such a place ....
she wanted to come out of it ... she comes out ... wanted to get married ... she loves somebody ... Society know that she has been such a character ... what would Society do ?
will Society accept her in the society ?
will Society allow ur friend to marry her ?
BG you are right......but what I didnt like in Arangetram is the way KB shows the character GETTING USED TO IT AND CONTINUE TO LIVE WITH IT.....
HE WILL NOT SHOW ANY SCENE TO PROVE THAT SHE TRIES TO COME OUT OF THAT SINFUL JOB
Not a worthy message ....
remember cinema is a very powerful medium
Kaveri character in Mahanadhi shows clearly that the poor small girl was unable to come out of the crutches of the powerful dadas in Kolkatta
Kamal gives a positive end to that movie by showing Rajesh's son getting married and well settled in life forgetting the bitter past
Well ... true ...
Ys ... i know Kamal did an excellent decision ... but will it happen in this society !!!!!!
?
thats a million dollar question !
BG
its a question mark even today ....
you are absolutely right .............
very few will come forward
well about arangetram ... donno why he chose that move ?
Again....the same KB showed another character KAVITHA in aval oru thodar kathai....
a young woman taking up the challenges of a struggling family ( almost similar like Arangetram ) ...... a useless elder brother ...father deserting the family ... dependant familymembers ...widow sister.....
KB makes the widow sister remarry her own lover ! thats sacrifying at the best levels possible !
Indeed excellent characterisation !!
Well KB is well known for taking up controversial issues and subjects .........Quote:
Originally Posted by bingleguy
he was criticised as a sadist
He was an admired director those days for taking up different subjects ....Apoorva ragangal was one such ..... no end to the puzzle !
Ys ... probably tat would have urged him to choose the track !
:clap: aval oru thodar kadhai
I could see the same character Kavitha in KB's teleserial PREMI ! and also that nandini character in Mandhil urudhi vendum
hmn ? ! i didnt see premi fully !
I happ to see Sahana ... that was an awesome portrayal n continuation of sindhu bhairavi
Misunderstanding... I was just talking abt the fim Nakkeeran in my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Sridhar
BTW, you can stop calling me sir :wink:
Req. Awareness:
For all those who talk abt the so-called "vulgarity" in KB's films, I have a statement to make. I am sure that all of us have watched all KB films including the "vulgarity" ones before we turned 18. Am sure those films are rated as A.
So whom to blame now ? Is it KB or the ignorance that we had.
I remember Kamal saying in an interview at the time of release of Kurudhi Punal for a question raised "have your daughters seen the movie", for which Kamal replied "No, they havent. they are still under 18 and the movie is certified A".
If this was followed, we would have appreciated all the creations of KB.
Hope that the theatres and televisions provide the "notification" abt the nature of the movie before the entire family sits in front of the television
Thanks..AV
KB was hilarious in his teleserial "Kaasalavu Nesam".. He made a good attempt to bring quality comedy into televisions before Sun TV had problems with Minbimbangal :(Quote:
Originally Posted by bingleguy
:clap: ... !Quote:
Originally Posted by Aalavanthan
well namma oorladhaan certification is just a mere formality !
Panravangalum madhikardhu kidaiyaadhu
Paakaravangalum madhikardhu kidaiyaadhu
Kodukkaravangalum madhikardhu kidaiyaadhu !
then whats the use !
Well said aalavanthan. For ppl who talk about vulgarity, tell me how many directors have u watched with plain scenes devoid of vulgarity? NAME SOME PLEASE (I am sure it would come to almost none)
There is a diff between, vulgarity in SCENES, and adult concepts. The concepts with KB dealt with were not new. IT did happen, does happen atleast 8 to 10 percent in India.
In avaL oru thodarkathai, THE SCENE WHICH SHRIDHAR mentioned.......... think bout it in a diff way. KB always is very suggestive in his scenes and dialogues. It talks about a WOMAN who EARNS, TAKES CARE OF THE FAMILY, SUPPORTS, STRUGGLES. So what happens to such women (esp one who is around 30, not married and we are talkin about 1960z or 70z)
Some of them become devoid of emotions, some of them think they are breadwinners and INCULCATE OR INJECT toughness in them. They forget they need to be sober, soft, or shy. I suppose thats what he wanted to portray. He wanted to portray her INDIFFERENCE towards her feminity. (though she did have kindness well hidden under her tough exterior)
There is a song in the movie which talks about her character.
kannilE enna undu kangalE ariyum
kallilE eeram undu kangalaa aariyum
en manam ennavendru ennai andri
yaarukku theriyum?????
WOMANLY feeling / shyness etc is lost in her. She had become rough BOTH IN ATTITUDE (by askin his brother to get out of the house) and in her bodily awareness. Any scene in that movie is JUST RIGHT in every way and within the limit.
thats bout it.
Next comes ARANGETRAM (I had not seen the movie earlier, but did see it couple of years back.)
I am sure, a woman who sells herself for money, would out of frustration repeat it as long as she gets money. She is sure she cant have a normal family life. Her family is in dire money needs. As such she has subjected herself to be willingly raped because of money, so WHAT DIFF does it make, IF ITS DONE few more times to get lil bucks? It is a common attitude which would be present in probably many women who are in financial need or under economic /social pressure.
KB RULED....... RULEZ. I love almost ALL OF HIS CHARACTER portrayal EXCEPT
''''''''''''KALKI''''''''
I am sure, a woman who sells herself for money, would out of frustration repeat it as long as she gets money. She is sure she cant have a normal family life. Her family is in dire money needs. As such she has subjected herself to be willingly raped because of money, so WHAT DIFF does it make, IF ITS DONE few more times to get lil bucks? It is a common attitude which would be present in probably many women who are in financial need or under economic /social pressure
SP.....
ARANGETRAM :
I question this very approach / attitude of a woman
IMO, its an insult to a woman being portrayed like that...
THERE ARE SO MANY JOBS TO DO TO EARN MONEY ( WHATEVER MAY BE THE FINANCIAL PRESSURES )......
BUT NOT SELLING ONE'S FLESH .....
IT CAN NEVER BE GLORIFIED OR JUSTIFIED...
KB definitely faltered here....
But Kavitha character is a gem
I am sure, a woman who sells herself for money, would out of frustration repeat it as long as she gets money. She is sure she cant have a normal family life. Her family is in dire money needs. As such she has subjected herself to be willingly raped because of money, so WHAT DIFF does it make, IF ITS DONE few more times to get lil bucks? It is a common attitude which would be present in probably many women who are in financial need or under economic /social pressure
SP.....
ARANGETRAM :
I question this very approach / attitude of a woman
IMO, its an insult to a woman being portrayed like that...
THERE ARE SO MANY JOBS TO DO TO EARN MONEY ( WHATEVER MAY BE THE FINANCIAL PRESSURES )......
BUT NOT SELLING ONE'S FLESH .....
IT CAN NEVER BE GLORIFIED OR JUSTIFIED...
KB definitely faltered here....
But Kavitha character is a gem
Balaji sir...i feel balachander sir is actually trying to make a point to the audience through her character of a woman's suffering if she goes through such jobs and what might happen to her....balachanders films make you think and i believe balachander sir wants us to think what might happen if a woman takes this path and so on.
Moreover it is not really an insult to show woman in such characters...its actually a eye opening matter..we have to wake up to accept truths whether they are bitter or sweet...this is the same..its no use trying to hide them because they may be deemed as insults or asingam as this may affect our understanding of the real matter and what it actually is. Prostitution is not something anybody wants to take but i believe balachander sir wants us to get a feeling of the bad effects of prostitution and what it is doing to the world which is why he characterised as such.
Also through this role you can also get a feel of how woman suffer by doing such jobs...so its actually beneficial rather than insulting...i hope im not offending you and i dunt mean it but i guess your looking it from whether its asingam or not instead of looking at the message...i also feel very embarassed by vulgarities and such scenes but i can understand what they are trying to tell us...so that in a way is not really a insult.
Once again i aplogise if i have hurt your sentiments...:)
Hulkster
no no not all..... I am not offended or upset...
infact I appreciate the way you have interpreted the same Arangetram character....
True.....its an eye opener....
What I am stressing here is that when there are plenty of other opportunities in this world for a woman / man to take up ...... why only prostitution ??
He could have shown the character trying her best to get a cultured job .....getting failed but finally resorting to his unholy job.....
it would have been more convincing .....
thats my opinion
He also shows the character getting used to the same and continues with that INSTEAD OF COMING OUT OF THAT MESS
The same KB also showed Kamal taking up the job of a barber ( DUE RESPECTS ) in Varumayin niram sigappu.....
I respect every profession ......
Hmm...guess he made a mistake in fast forwarding the character in arangetram hoping that it can make a genuine impact on the viewer's mind about prostitution....i get a clearer view of your opinion now...thanks for your comments..:)
I am not at all against KB...Infact i am a big fan of his movies like Varumayin Niram Sivapu,Vaanamey Ellai,Thaneer Thaneer,Unnal Mudiyum Thambi etc., Even i have mentioned in the thread KB VS BR which was started by Balaji anna earlier!That had some wonderful arguements!! :twisted:
But i was really irritated for some of his movies!!! And i told you the reason and its my own perception.Ofcourse opinion differs..
Hulkster....
I admire the kamal character in Unaal mudiyum thambi......
he clearly shows the generation gap, divide between a tradional ( pazamai vaadhi ) Father and a rational young son ......
whatever the son utters gets misinterpreted by Father and gets lashed....
Finally poetically the Father acknowledges openly feeling about his son
thats great !
Its an emotional scene when Kamal was pleading to take someone severely wounded and battling for life ......
while being bull dozed by his Father to get on with life
Kamal at his best displaying his frustration
KB once again shows his class !
Yeah balaji sir....thats one aspect of KB..his characterisation...it is one part that never fails no matter whether his screenplay or storyline is screwed up...that is why i believe he is one of the best directors.
Welcome back Sanguine Sri dear :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Sridhar
Enga aalayaa kanumaaynu ninachen !!!
so now well geared up :thumbsup:
Let me hear from you about arangetram character....
We generally from South often feel inferior about the artists , composers, directors ....and tend to worship persons like Satyajit Ray, Shyam Benegal etc ( OF COURSE THEY ARE GREAT )
but we tend to underestimate the SOuth Indian directors .....
KB was one who definitely deserves an ALL INDIA IMAGE like Shyam Benegal or Ray or Mrinal Sen
It was Ek thuje ..which made him famous in the North also
Instead of Arengetram i will take other movies where the family relationship was portrayed in a very worst manner!! If i am not wrong? I am not sure is this a way a genius think? Alright for discussion lets say how long we can sustain idiotic family centiments etc! Accepted that Mr.Genius wants to touch the weird,abnormal relationships..he shows that a person shares the bed with both mother and daughter!! Do you really think that people sees those movies for a message? They are just quenching their sexual thirst by entertaining those kind of movies,People who support those kind of movies keep your hand on your heart and tell me you like that movie for message? If so what message you got it? If no please dont talk about these movies directed by Mr.Genius! and start talking about his very good movies...
It seems abit of a emotional tirade..but let me clear up...we as audience must be able to know what is right and what is wrong when we watch such movies...such movies have messages of the wrongdoings done by us and he has nothing to worry about bringing about a message being hidden behind our backs for long....it is up to us individuals to see how we interpret the movie...if we see the movie as sexual entertainment..its not the movie's fault...it is our fault for interpreting that way...most movies are misunderstood because of how people see it....if we are abit more understanding we can actually see the message instead of judging the movie by its scenes...:)
Really Hulk?? Is that so!! Cool so you look for the message in those movies!! You are the man!! 8-) But everybody wont be that this much descent like you? Okay lets stop this arguement here because i wont argue with a pure saint :wink:
:lol:...saamiyar nu mudivu penniyacha..aduttha jayachandra swamigal naan thaana?....what other movies of KB appealed to you for their message?
balaji,
I concede with ur opinion, yup...... she had better choices.
but u know balaji, the era which the movie was taken, WAS AN ORTHODOX ERA, where if a woman has lost her chastity, she would be spoken ill amongst normal ppl, in normal society.
Where do u think she can lead a torture free life?
The choices I suppose was between, being ridiculed among normal ppl, or to be with such a gang so that normal do not visit you.
I suppose thats the reason many such women continue being sex workers.
yup. I dont disagree ur point, it is valid.
Shridhar,
May I please know which movie u are talkin bout? I mean mother daughter family sentiments etc?
As i have not seen the movies...Manmatha Leelai, Arangetram..no comments on those...
However the title itself shows the for Manmatha Leelai, on what kind of story it was.
It is definetly an adult concept. I think the same could be applied to Arangetram.
Definetly Aboorva Raagangal is an adult concept. As aalavanthaan nicely pointed it is our
ignorance to be to be blamed, not the director.
When we talk abt vulgarity i can point few things.
Sridhar mentioned the scene abt scene in the song Aval oru thodarkathai..
Sp gave an very good explanation on what could have been in the director's mind. Kudos to SP.
Can anyone say that, that particular scene provokes anyone.
Coming to other 2 great directors MR and BR..
1. Remember Uyire song in Bombay, After she leaves her kurtha and then runs to see Arvindswamy.
2. When BR takes Village oriented movies, shows the women without Jacket. Which era he is in.
In Muthal mariyathai in a particular love sequence he even shows the back of Ranjini without a jacket,
which is absolutely not necessary.
This is what is vulgarity in my opinion. These scenes provokes you.
In few of KB movies you can see adult concepts. Not vulagarity.
It is us who had to chose the options.
Also in the name of commercialism, we see normally in allmost all the duet songs heroines are shown in the
least minimal dresses, which is actually called vulgarity. Several of those movies even have 'U' certificate.
I have come across certain people. Mentioning the kissing scenes comes in few Kamal movies as kulgar and not allowing
their children to see those kamal's movies. But they happily enjoy with the famile a movie like "Dhool". You can see a
girl comes out in public with 2 piece dresses, vivek making comments on that and the song sequences.
They will enjoy that.
This is the state. Ignorance on not knowing what is vulgarity..
Even if you consider those as vulgarity, then that is applicable to all the directors.
As of now i want to point out directorial touch of KB..
1. In Ek Tu je Ke liye, when the heroine' father identifies Kamal photo with rathi and burns, then asks
rathi what she will do. Now rathi mixes the ashes of the nurnt photo and drinks. There u see KB, the great.
2. Vaaname Ellai, when all these youngsters are adamant on commiting suicide, Madan suggests them to see a person.
When we are waiting on who could be person, KB shows an handicapped who succeeded in his life mainining +ve attitude
towards society. anyone in that position(commiting suicide) would have changed his mind.
KB rulez :thumbsup:
There are more. Will talk in coming days.
The only one who would have handled different concepts, different personalites with acceptable as well as different approcah
is KB only.
He is definetly the best among the all.
As other he too have drawbacks. When comparing with positives and talents, those were very negligible.
I am eagerly expecting his movie Poi. :)
TM , you have seen manmathaleelai :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
i liked tele serials such as Premi and kailavu manasu...
but kalki was rubbish
No i have not seen. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by great
Maran,
Why you need other directors to hype your "Genius"?...Have you seen Bala movies? Can you give one scene in his 3 movies where the Heroines or other females has shown atleast their navel!!? Remember Bala is in current generation!
You are talking about censor and other stuffs..can you watch those movies with your teen-age son or daughter! If you say yes then you are exceptional if not kindly think thrice!!
IMO Balachander apart from his adult oriented stuffs he is a good director!! His movie "Kalki" is the worst crap which i have ever seen! :evil: If any people argue that this movie is really good tell me the reasons i am ready to argue!!
Common man. You are trying to compare one who took 100 movies with the one who just took 3 movies. However what u will say for the first song where Jyothilakhmy dances in Sethu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Sridhar
I can list atleast 20 movies of KB without those scenes u mentioned.
That censor stuff already mentioned. I may not take my teenage son or daughter to those movies as they are for adults.
I too is not under estimating any other directors. Just pointing out the mistakes. Every one including KB had drawbacks.
I too have great respects for MR, BR or anyone in the history who gave quality movies including Bala.
:)