Is Tamil derived from Sanskrit?
Thiru Neduncheziyan avarkale!!
NanRi for your thoughts on the matter.
As to using easy words and abbreviations:
Very interesting researches have been done by other learned men, some of them archeologists. Over a few centuries around the dawn of the Christian era and even a little before the era, mainly in stone and pottery inscriptions, the mei ezuththu (consonants) were deliberately dropped. Then presently when they were found, the first lot of finders thought that they were not possibly Tamil words.
It was perplexing them when one thoughtful archeologist/historian managed to decode it.
KOvEnthan (kO+ vEnthan) > kOvEtha - the chief ruler, king..
aLpathi (aL + pathi) > Apathi. a resident governor or ruler, usually under a higher ruler.
Those days they had no sophisticated things like pens as today. When you put a dot (for consonant) on the palm leaf (Olai) it could be torn. The pottery could break during the inscribing. Stone could chip off.
Sometimes, they wrote without the dot; at other times they eliminated the meiyezuththu completely.
So, kOvEnthan when written in Tamil letters, read: kOvEnathan as there was no dot over the na.
Or it could be : kOvetha (consonants eliminated).
Another consideration was space. They did not have tons of paper or gigabyte computers.
Sometimes it was discovered that entire words were omitted.
Using the method, we can decode at least some words today.
ka - (kathiravan malarvikkum) , mala - ( malar.)
In the first instance. for two words, you have one letter only, ka.
In the second instance, only the consonant "r" was dropped.
Now read "kamala" and add suffix "am" = kamalam.
Now read: vizu = siRantha, abbreviate to vi -
malar , drop r, become mala, add am suffix vimalam.
If you do not add suffix, they remain kamala and vimala > kamalA and vimalA as names. ]
As more of these are discovered and explained, the evidence would get stronger.
The epigraphists who decoded some of such words like kOvetha belong to the current millenium. So, we should not go back to professors who were guessing the words to be non-Tamil who lived 70 or 200 years ago when the inscriptions were hidden under the soil and they could have never even dreamt of them.
chEran - just used “cha”. (not even chE). [ stone inscr. ]
muththirai = 3 seas. thirai = alai. kadal.
muththirayam = refers to a political control covering the 3 seas, an expanse of water where 3 seas meet.
drop the “ya” becomes muththiram.
sa+ muththiram – sEra nAttukku appAl uLLa kadal pakuthi, (Ocean). [ final construction and meaning]
now, samuththiram = ocean.
On the new words you pointed out, if everyone or majority agreed and followed, they could be abbreviated and used. New words in any language will always be difficult.
Some new Malay and Indon terms are difficult to pronounce also.
Persekutuan – Federation. (easy)
Pentadbiran Bantuan dan Pemulihan Banga Bangsa Bersatu - UNESCO. (easy?) [ depends on how often you use the language.]
stabit presumptio donec probetur in contrarium (Latin) . A legal presumption stands until the contrary is proved. Easy to pronounce?
My Chinsese assistant who is typing this for me (because my Tamil asst is sick ) supplies you this:
chin chaa poh kwong po thien taai! = singapore vaanoli.
She says Chinese words are easy and good to pronounce.
NiithO nEnu rAkalanu? (Telugu) = I will come with you.
Hopefully we get over such difficulties as we become more familiar with these terms. Pronouncing difficulties are an international phenomenon.
On numbers – Dr Mu Varatharaasanar says that the Indo –Euro numbers grew out of Tamil numerals. We will discuss this one day as soon as possible.
We will meet again. [sl
Is TAMIL derived from SANSKRIT?
Quote : "Nedunchezhiyan"
// ... 'Kampar' river in Indonesian Island (the one east of west Malysia; the big Island) does it denote to the Chozha Kalaththup Pulavar Kampar?//
Yes, Because Raja Raja Chozhan captured many parts of the adjacent countries, like the so called Burma, Malaysia, Singapore, Andaman, Thailand etc. Eventually large groups of Tamilians were domiciled to these regions by that Chozha Emperor. Those days' Tamilians had strived hard to develop most of these lands into Cultivable Agricultural Lands which were lying either dry or dense forests or fallow fetching no life-worthy return to the people there till then. Thus the Tamilians had enriched these regions by their hard toil, several centuries back, prior to British occupation. While Andaman has become part of India, other parts of such Chozha's new acquisitions got merged with the newly formed Nations, but the ancient Tamilians were gratefully allowed to continue their settlement there. There are authentic Stone- inscriptions in each and every such regions in Tamil script relating to his period of reign of Chozha Emperor in these countries.
The Original name of this country was "MALAAYAA"
(Malai + Aayaa) , meaning "Mother Hill" in Tamil.
The erst-settled ancient Tamilian people of the present Malaysia affectionately named their life- source as "Kambar River", in memory of the Chozha Kavi-chakravarthi.
//... I have heard that the word Kampar comes from the fact (kampu poEla uLLavar; someone who look like a stick) that his appearance was 'skinny.' Is that right?//
No. KAMBAN was named so by his parents because it is one of the names of God Narasimha, the Kula-Deywam of Kamba's ancestry. That is why the inauguration (Arangaetram) of his Tamil Ramayanam, was performed in front of Narasimha- Sannidhi within the Ranganatha Temple at Srirangam. At the same location, the Kambar Memorial Mandapam was erected by the Chozha Emperor, which is still existing.
Is TAMIL derived from SANSKRIT ?
In Continuation of the last posting....
The group of Islands presently called as SINGAPORE was originally a Tamilian Settlement. Here too it was partly dry or fallow and partly with dense forests. Ancient Tamilians have developed and enriched it as Agricultural Lands and named the SINGAPURI in Tamil. Subsequently the Malayan King took over from them.
There is also an opinion that the Malayan King who first took over the throne was factually born to a Tamilian-King-father (of that country) and a Chinese Mother (One of the King's several wives)
The present regions of Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia was One unified Tamil- Country, named MALAAYAA ruled over by a Tamil King of Chozha dynasty, under the Chozha Emperor.
Is Tamil derived from Sanskrit?
[quote="Nedunchezhiyan"]
//KAMBAN.... What is the root of the Word 'Kamban?//'
It is purely a Tamil word. "Kambam" means Thoonh (Pillar in English).
One who has come out of a Kambam is "KAMBAN".....
... Similar to the one indulging in "VAMBU" is called "VAMBAN"... and...
.... the One who is indulging in "Kallham"(Theft) is "Kallhan" (Thief)
KAMBA-NAADU was a Sitrarasu under Chozha Kingdom, in the name of Lord Narasimha to whom the King of the Land was much devoted.
That is why Vaishnavites used to denote Kambar as KAMBA- NAATTU- AAZHWAR even now-a-days. Kamban's Birth-lace Thaerazhundhoor is within Kamba- Naadu.
In some other regions too of Tamilnadu, people especially the Farmers, used to erect just a plain and Simple Wooden- Post (Kambu) in their Farm-land, tie a new cloth-piece, adorn with garland and worship it as the God Narasimha, just before commencing the Farmwork anew every year.
Is Tamil derived from SANSKRIT?
[Quote:"Nedunchezhiyan"]
// I appreciate your gratitude to Bharathiyar.... //
No doubt you have every right to have your own independant opinion contrary to mine about Bharathi. But we have to remember that British were the common Antagonists for the whole of Indian Union of those days including the so called Ceylon. So much more than the Gratitude, it is a matter of our Pride that Bhaarathi in spite of his absolute poverty and trying circumstances, had boldly raised his Voice against the Invaders in those crucial days of terror (unlike thousands of Cowards in high position bowing down as Slaves before a Dictator), as also a Far-sighted Visionary, Selfless crusader, Whole-hearted Patriot, Dedicated poet on Tamil, as also an Invincible Global Human. Tamilians all over the world must be proud of our Man Bhaarathi. If anybody under-rates that Great Human, means that he does not know that intellectual Thyaga-jothi properly.
//I do not wish to make this Literature form into a 'political discussion
Not only that there is no need for such as I am sure that you are aware of many things going in South Asia. The present and the past... The (H)Indian Government involvement in Eezha Thamizhars to the understanding of how the 'Indian Union' was before the Independance etc.//
You say you don't want to indulge in political discussion... whereas subsequently, ... all are your political discussions only..... Even though I have an authentic reply.... I am not interested to discuss here, since out of context..
//.... Not like some guy who went to the Thamizh King and sang, "maNpuLu mApiLLai..." because his wife told him to go and make money, and he got saved by the Head pulavar.... //
Yes. Most of the Pulavars of the ancient days were so, unlike the bold and self-respectful Kambar.
In confession one poor Pulavar sang....
"Pollaan oruvanai naan Nallaay yenraen
Poar muhathai aryaanaip puliyaerhu yenraen
Yellaam arhu vayitruk koozhukkuth thaan.
You may know that there is a Tamil Proverb....
"PIRIKKA MUDIYAADHAVAI ..... PULAMAIYUM VARHUMAIYUM"
Prior to Independance, there was no mention of the word EEZHAM anywhere in India .. but only YAAZHPAANHAM.... in those days. And even in all the Tamil Literatures too we find as ILANGAI only.
Kamba Ramayanam says as ILANGAI- Vaendhan Raavanhan. only....
Tamil-Prabandham says, which MS Subbalakshmi has sung as...
" ILANGAI PUKKU.... AARAAVAMUDHANAI....
The word EEZHAM... suddenly became popular all over Tamilnadu.... When & How?... Tamilians of Tamilnadu came to know just recently... after the British days and expiry of Bharathi... only when Thiru Kuttimanhi was callously tortured and put an end inhumanly.
Anbaarndha Nedunchezhiyan, I am able to realise your hurt heart and wounded feelings... caused despite NO FAULT of you the innocent and good-hearted people.
But in this context... one thing you must remember. During the British days, so to say while Bharathi was alive.... it was called Indian-Union comprising of the regions of the present India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma and Srilanka (Ceylon),under one control of British Viceroy at New Delhi in India. Within this Indian Union people were free to move about anywhere without any restriction. Whereas now, a Tamilian from Tamilnadu is not able to feel free to go to his adjacent Jaffna for meeting his Tamilian brother, whereas he is free to go to Andaman, because both these far off lands fall within one country.!!!
So Bharathi did not consider Yaazh-thamizhar different from the India-Thamizhar. We have to think through his vision of the Time.
Bharathi says.... Vilhaiyaadi varuvoam... Paalam amaippoam.... Veedhi samaippoam... Payir seyhuvoam.... etc...
Whom does he mean behind all these -OHMS? Who are that WE?....
He means all the TAMILIANS including You and I...!!!
Non-Tamilians in India and Srilanka.... he means as.... OTHERS!!!
Is Tamil derived from Sanskrit?
Thiru Nedunchezhiyan
//I have heard of a name 'kadAram' I am not sure which part..but a country in South East Asia, I suppose?//
"KADAARAM" is the present day BURMA, which country was won over and taken possession by Raja Raja Chozhan.
Is Tamil derived from Sanskrit?
Meaning of Tamil Word :-- "kavai"
¸¨Å = Á£ý À¢Êì¸ò àñÊÄ¢ø ¨Åì¸ôÀÎõ "ÐÇ¢ ¯½×ôÀñ¼õ"
"kavai" = Beat ( a Small piece of Food-substance fixed at the Needle Hook to catch Fish)
"¸¨ÅìÌ" ¯¾Å¡¾ Àñ¼õ = àñÊø Á£ý-¯½× «Ç× ´Õ º¢Ú ÐñÎ ¾Ì¾¢§ÂÛõ þøÄ¡¾ Á¾¢ôÒ þøÄ¡ô Àñ¼õ.
"kavaikku udhavaadha pandam" = a Substance which is NOT WORTH... NOR FIT for even a Beat.