Tamil's elderliness to world languages

Mr. Sivajayan wrote,

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You mentioned pariyan as greek above. Is it related to ariyarns like Asirians with Asurar?

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Persons of funny mood will face crucial situation easier than persons of serious mood :!: The discussion you had with "AZhakana Alana" is interesting :!: Continue crackers frequently :!:

Aryan,Indo-European,Aryan invasion and such like terms are imaginery and I may add these in the discussion later. We will go from Will Durant- Maxmuller to latest Aryan theory owners after some time :!:

Pari means horse. Pariyans were not Aryans. In 'tamil is elder to Sanskrit' Thread I revealed 'Aryans' are Hothaas-Othuvaars. We can call Aryan theory as 'Arya Mayai'.

f.s.gandhi

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The discussion you had with "AZhakana Alana" is interesting :!: Continue crackers frequently :!:

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As interesting as the meaningless discussion you were having before with yourself? Well, thanks for calling me "azhakana", i hope that one day your amma, akka ot manisi will be called "AZhakana" with exactly the same meaning you called me...

sivajayan wrote

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Alana, you can come to Holland. The Dutch are very tolerant in that matter and you'll find a lot of more LOLAs too. No need to wait until St. Christopher's Day to come. You can be what you are every day and every night

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oru LOLAyalthan innoru LOLAlai kandupidikka mudiyum :wink:

I've been wondering abt the curious similarity of 'Vetri' (Tamil) w/ 'Victory' (English)........both meaning the same, cud it be the latter was derived from the former as a result of sum cross-cultural race mix??

How about "Lamby" and "Thamby" ;)

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Originally Posted by Sandeep

How about "Lamby" and "Thamby" ;)

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Um....nope, firstly they don't mean the same......nor r they pronounced the same.......(Thamby = Thumby :wink: ) :lol2:

Ventru(tamil)- Vettri(tamil)

Ventral-Vincere(Latin)-Vincere(French)- Vincery-victory(English) is the evolution.

f.s.gandhi

TAMIL CULTURE IN ANCIENT ERAN & ERAK(ASIRIA)

Mr. Will Durant (The story of civilization) Mr. H.R. Hall ( The Ancient history of near East), B.S.Upaththiyaya ( Feeders of Indian Culture), Robert Bruce Foote ( The Foote collection of Indian Prehistoric and Protohistoric antiquities), Ankar Bible Dictionary, The New Encyclopaedia Britannica 15th Edition shall give light on history of Asirian civilization.

An Abstract of the above is as follows :

The civilization that prevailed in the capital "ASUR" is called Asirian civilization. During 1110 BCE Asirians came into power and reached their height during 975 BCE. Before 1110 BCE they were under Sumerians first and Babylonieans next.

Sumerians created civilization. Babyloneans made it peak. And Asiraians maintained that peak. Asur (present Kalath-Sherkath), Arpela (present Irbil), Kalak (present nimrut), Ninavae ( present Queenjik) were important cities of Asiria.

Armenia,Siria, Methiya,Balesthene,Fonesia,Sumeria,Elam & Babylonea were under Asirian rule. From Kaakkas mountain to Egypt, Asirians ruled.

Babylon God Marthuk(tamil Maruthu) was made servant of Asur God.

Asirians were same civilizational group of Babylonieans. In Asiria, North was Asirian and South was Babyloneans. Babyloneans were great traders with wealth. Asirians were great landlords with wealth.

God Asur was a Surya God.(Tamil sun worship).He was portrayed as god of perishing merciless & arrogant towards enemies.

We have already seen that during 900 BCE in siriya & Asia Minor, Uoorarthu / Aarrath people prevailed. It was difficult for Asirians to control them. Aarrath people called themselves as Kalthiyas(tamil Kaltheyam). Their God's name is Kalthis. They called themselves as Warrior community.Their language was 'Vanni'(Tamil Vanni-a surname now in Thanjavur and a main caste group of northern TamilNadu) Their symbols were found near 'Vaan' lake (Tamil Vaan -sky/ water area- a lake is called 'Vaan Poikai" in sankam literature 'pattinappaalai 39-In this tamils' prehistoric foreign trade also is mentioned)

With Uoorarthi people, People called "Mannai"(tamil mannai means king/ruling class-Now This surname exists in Mannaarkudi area in tamilnadu) had marriage relationship and these people lived in Eran.

Asur means "lively / Uyirmaiyana",energetic or enormous power holding.

Ayir-Uyir-Asur is the evolution.Sumeria got 'The wheel for urn making' from Elam region. Elam region got this from tamils. And Asirians main trade was this urn making and they were also called uyavian. Tamil Uyavu means 'Chakkaram'/ wbeel. Asiriyan's were well in manufacturing Iron weapons. In tamil "Ayil" means Iron. Asiriyans God was made in Iron and called as Asi/Ayi.

B.S. Upaththiyaya says, 'Kalak'(tamil kalai) was artistic city.

Asirians were the heterogenius people of Kaththiyar,Chemiyar & Kakkas region Kurthish. All these people's basic culture is Dravidian/Tamilian.Kurthish were mountain people. They were from Kaltheyars.

One more Asirian God was called 'Asura Majesta'(Tamil Asura Maayam). The tamil battle practices like putting enemies on sharp edge (kazhuvil Etruthal), removing skin(Tholai uriththal), cutting tongue (nakkai Aruththal), taking out eyes (kannai nonduthal) were followed by Asiriyans.(These phrases still now used in colloquial Tamil)

A kaththiyan temple was called 'Fokazi Koyi' (tamil- pakavan koyil). Uoorarthu / Aararthu (tamil Aaram) people lived around mountain. In Asirian document Aararthu was symbolized as mountain country.

Aararthu people called their land as also 'Fyai nili'(Tamil-poikai nilam). In Aramaic and Siriyan languages the mountain of Aararthu was called as 'Karthu malai'(tamil kal malai) and the people were called 'Kortheyar"(Tamil Kaltheyar). The word Armeniar was also from this root Aaram.

Aararthu kings were Aaramu(Tamil Aaram/Maalai), Menuva(Tamil Manu), Erimena(tamil Eri mannan) -all tamil names.

People of Methiya which was under Asirian rule, worshipped moon and it was called 'Mathi'.(Tamil mathi means Chandran)

Asirian followed "Majes" (Tamil Maayon) worship. Thus throughout Asirian civilization we see tamil culture & language.

Next We shall go into Persia (Present Paakistan,Palusistan,Afghanistan & Eran)

f.s.gandhi

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Originally Posted by F.S.Gandhi vandayar

Ventru(tamil)- Vettri(tamil)

Ventral-Vincere(Latin)-Vincere(French)- Vincery-victory(English) is the evolution.

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Tks! :D Tat was very informative & interesting!

TAMIL CULTURE IN ANCIENT PERSIA (present Eran)

Again we rely on Will Durant, H.R.Hall,B.S.Upathyaya, P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar & Ankar Dictionary. V.S.V. Raghavan's 'Hiraattas' also gives some light about the history of Persian Rule.

During 600 BCE Asirian rule came to end. Siria & West parts were captured by Babyloneans. Methiyas captured Tigris river parts & Aararthu. There was good understanding between Babyloneans & Methiyans.

During 550 BCE King Syras Captured Methiya and won over King Astiyakas.Persians belonged to same race of Methiyans(Eraniyans). They were mixer of North Dravidian+Mangolian-land connection and South Dravidians(Tamils) connection+Chemiththian-Sea connection. The Culture contained Dravidian elements in higher proportion.

The present Areas from Sinthu to Kabul were under Asirian,Methian & Persians one after another.

Syras was called as Elam(Elam anshan-tamil elam anuvan- Anu in tamil means 'sun') king by Babyloneans. Greeks called him as Persian. Persians called him as Akkamanian. Compeeses & Tarius were other important kings. During Tarius rule Persians reached peak.

During this time a great phylosopher "Zarathustra" lived. Zarathustra gave new explanation to Old "Majesta"(Tamil Mayam) theory. Zarathustra religion God was Ahura Majesta/Asura Majesta(Tamil Asura Mayam).'Thayeevar'(perishing God- Tamil Thevar) was specified as Inthira and he was portrayed as enemy of Ahura Majesta.

Instead of burying dead bodies Zarathustra insisted to put first for bird / dog eating. Hirattas(a history writer before christian era) also specifies this. Hirattas also categorises the Priest class as was called 'Mazi' (Maya) who did rituals of old Asura religion and were considered as enemies to Zarathustras.

Persia was called as Faars, Pars & Parsumaash- all means Horse land.(tamil pari means horse). Near Persia a place was called as (Maliyan-tamil Malai). A village called 'Kusa'(tamil kuyavu-kusavu) where Urn making was done. Syras was called Akkamanian-indegenious man(Tamil Aka manayan means Ulloorkaaran – a person of native area)

King Syras was also called 'Kurush'. In Hebrew he was called as 'Koras' (tamil Kurusil). King Tarius was called Thrayawash-means sea man (Tamil Thiraiyavan)

Zarathustra 'Arththa'-Zarathustra theology(Tamil Arththa-Aram-Araththathu-Araththaaru). False was specified as 'Thravuka'(Tamil Thurokam/ Thurukam)

For writing two things were used. 1. Elakkani(Tamil Elakkani means tool used to write in palm leaves). 1. Kalam (ink vessel-tamil- kalam). This 'kalam' is used in all West Asian languages including Hindi(Urdu)to specify pen.

Eventhough Persian people differed worship of tamil Inthiran / Tamil Maayon (Maaji) worship these two was the base to evolve out new religion Zarathustra. In language, they used only tamilian language.

Next We go into Persian's "Jent Avesta-a" Zarathustra religion book / Persian religion book which is often compared with Vedhic religion of India.

f.s.gandhi

thiru FSG

U r doing very well. Thanks for this presentation of yours!! Like to hear more from you.

Dear F.S.GANDHI AVArkale,

Vungal postings are interesting, but it is really paining that you mostly quote Speculative suspictions held in the past and now clearly rejected as new thing.

You in one of the posting on Tamil is Elder Thread- dated entire Tamil Sangam Lit to 200CE and later. Idiyappam says Sangam Lit extends to Bakthi period means 8th Cen.

The Scholars normally date This to 100BCE to 200 CE and Tirukural and Silapathikaram and Mankmekhalai to 3rd Cen. The Problem is we donot have any Manuscripts earlier than 17th Cen CE.

Now Kindly give as to which of the Universities of India and abroad have similar views as the Authors you quote.

You gave very high Publicity to Dr.Mathiwanan's Alleged Indus Dechiphering. Mr. Aravindan and Mr.Solomon has very clearly explained the methods of improperness in it. Kindly explain please.

Tamil is a Great Language- but we do not need wrong methods and other country's Languages be said as Tamil which are today clearly marked by International Scholars as other Languages.

Tirukural Conference Papers have been linked by K.P.Aravindan and all the Scholars say the reference to Marai and Vedams in Tholkappiyam and Sangam and Kural are Four Vedas. Why should we reject this conclusions and assume or presume un available some thing else.

Please be more specific with Proper International repute Univesity based Scholars please. Otherwise all we do will be just meaningless Gossip.

Devapriya.

Dear Devapriya,

You seem to be reviving the arguments posed by Solomon in 'Tamil is elder to Sanskrit' thread earlier which were explained by me there itself and so visit those old posts.

Mr. Solomon/Ancheneyan's(devapriya's-I guess you could be) dubious's nature & inadquate depthness in arguements clearly put by me. Go through my old posts. Your tone reflects his replica with back to square approach.

I said third sankam span of timeline is in between 600 BCE to 200 CE. Not as you said. Visit my post on 06.08.05 in the same thread. I don't find anywhere Idiappam said about sankam timeline and it seems you are also following mischievious path of Solomon.

Dr. Mathivan's works now is being accredited by world historiens. Your utterings do not have truth. Visit my posts regarding Dr. Mathivanan's decipherments.

'Naanmarai' was misinterupted and all your sayings about this is highly speculative. I may write about this in future.

Whatever I put in this column is World renowned historiens views & findings and references are clearly specified by me. And viewers also will find the truth in the arguements.

Many world Universities made these authors & and their books that I have specified now in this column & earlier in Tamil is elder to Sanskrit Column as references to various courses.

The authors of world renowned have submitted research papers and got Doctoral degrees on these books.

Hence again and again as Solomon put in his old posts don't try(worry) to establish wrong approach of 'Back to square'.

In the forthcoming columns I may write still more about Ancient histories and then come to Indian ancient history which may give you some stuff to argue.

f.s.gandhi

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Originally Posted by devapriya

You in one of the posting on Tamil is Elder Thread- dated entire Tamil Sangam Lit to 200CE and later. Idiyappam says Sangam Lit extends to Bakthi period means 8th Cen.

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When did I say that the "Bakthi period extends...." Don't twist my words. I said, "The Bakti period overlaps the Sangam Period." That means- The Bakti period started the 1st century CE.... That's all!

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The Scholars normally date This to 100BCE to 200 CE and Tirukural and Silapathikaram and Mankmekhalai to 3rd Cen. The Problem is we donot have any Manuscripts earlier than 17th Cen CE.

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Scholars... Scholars... Scholars.... Scholars all over your posts... What has Manuscripts go to do with the date of the Literature..?

Go read 'Huckleberry Finn' now. You would probably be reading a reprint - not Mark Twain's handwriting! Think about that, Mr Priya!

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Now Kindly give as to which of the Universities of India and abroad have similar views as the Authors you quote.

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Now you have narrowed your silly demands to 'Universities of India"? Ealier it was 'world renowned' Universities. What is in your mind??

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Tamil is a Great Language- but we do not need  wrong methods and other country's Languages be said as Tamil which are today clearly marked by International Scholars  as other Languages.

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Wow... 'International Scholars'' - this time, eh?

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Tirukural Conference Papers have been linked by K.P.Aravindan and all the Scholars say the reference to Marai and Vedams in Tholkappiyam and Sangam and Kural are Four Vedas. Why should we reject this conclusions and assume or presume un available some thing else.

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Where is that Sansritic stuff Rig, Sama, Yajur and Atharvan Vedas mentioned in "Tholkappiyam and Sangam and Kural"???

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Please be more specific with Proper International repute Univesity based Scholars please. Otherwise all we do will be just meaningless Gossip

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Now you went back - 'Proper International repute University' - Earlier you wanted Indian University Scholars. - What happened??

Guys, go to Andhra Pradesh or Karnataka and tell people that Tamil is the oldest language or that Tamil is the mother of Telugu/Kannada. You will be laughed at and people will only ridicule you. Heck, you will be ridiculed if you say the same thing anywhere in India outside of TN.

I have not been following the discussion closely but I came from A.P. and do not mind if Tamil is older than Telugu. If one follows some accepted norms of enquiry and comes up with references which are 'acceptable' and if Tamil is older so be it. I think that Aravindhan pointed out in one of the discussions what he considered as acceptable references. Certainly Tamil seems to have much older literature than other Dravidian languages and whether other languages were derived from it or developed seperately will probably come out with more research.
Somewhat tangential topic: I think that Tamilians' fight against the imposition of Hindi has actually helped Andhras in the I.T. boom.
Regards,
Swarup

Swarup,
Here is something that might interest you. This is a letter from Dr.Hart, Professor, South Asia studies, University of California,Berkeley. Interestingly, George Hart studied Sanskrit for his Ph.D and taught Sanskrit.

http://tamil.berkeley.edu/Tamil%20Ch...calLgeLtr.html

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Originally Posted by gaddeswarup

I think that Aravindhan pointed out in one of the discussions what he considered as acceptable references. Certainly Tamil seems to have much older literature than other Dravidian languages........
Regards,
Swarup

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RR,
Thanks for the very interesting reference. I may be getting out of the thread but it is for this kind of references and scholarly comments by various people that I enjoy participating in this forum. I had the pleasure of meeting Velcheru Narayana Rao mentioned in the article. I read his book (with David Shulman and Sanjay Subramaniyan) "Symbols of substance" about the Nayaka period in Tamilnadu and how one can glean history from literature.
It is interesting for me to see how Tamilians have been able to preserve their culture and literature for such a long period , try to see reasons for this and what lessons it has for the future. I read somewhere that eventhough Telugu borrowed a lot of words from Samskrit, the structure of Samskrit itself was influenced by Dravidian languages. At one time, I think that Dravidam used to mean Tamil but one of the early writers (Campbell?) srated using the term Dravidian languages. Apart from the preservation of language and culture, it is also the interaction of cultures that fascinates me. Some of the famous Telugu writers like Srisri, Dasarathi brothers, Arudra and others came from Tamil families settled in Andhra long ago and Dasrathi Rangacharya mentins that his parents used to speak Dravida Bhasha., an old form of Tamil. Regards,
Swarup

Sorry; after talking about references I just mentioned a few things without references. Unfortunately some of them are in Telugu. The main reference is Arudra's "Samagra Andgra Sahityam". In his artcle about Nannaya (Adikavi or first poet), he raises the possibilty that Nannya may be of Tamilian origin and then goes on to mention several recent poets of Tamil ancestry. Dasrathi Rangacharya's story is from his autibiography "Naa jeevana yanam". About the influence of Tamil (Dravidian languages) on Samskrit, I found the reference in the message 13691 of the yahoo group racchabanda. I enclose a passage from the message:

"It appears that what you read from this interview is different from
what I read. To me, David Shulman is talking about "India as a
Linguistic Area" [*see the footnote] - he is talking about the
convergence of syntax in medieval Sanskrit (not Vedic Sanskrit) and other Indo-Aryan languages with the syntax of Dravidian (without going into what created this convergence).

Here I am reminded of Sjoberg's comments (1992) on syntax of Indian Languages:

"Thus the Dravidian grammatical impact on Indo-Aryan has been far
than the Indo-Aryan grammatical impact on Dravidian. How can we
account for this pattern?"

Her hypothetical answer to this question was "agglutinative languages seem highly resistant to syntactic changes". (Note that the Dravidian languages are agglutinative languages).

Also Bh. Krishnamurti, a renowned linguist and an authority on
Dravidian languages, in his recent book on "Dravidian Lanaguages" (2003) says:

"It is the Dravidian which show evidence of extensive lexical
borrowing but only a few traits of structural borrowing from Indo-Aryan. On the contrary, Indo-Aryan (particularly middle and modern) show large scale structural borrowing from Dravidian, but very little lexical borrowing."

To reconcile these facts he says "That Middle Indo-Aryan and New Indo-Aryan have been built on a Dravidian substratum seems to be the only answer.""

The message is by Suresh Kolichala who says that he is not an expert on these topics. Note also that he may be talking of Samskrit of a later period. I must add that even though I am interested in these topics, I know very little about these topics and was just trying to fo learn a little with out too much study. It is possible that some inspired and persistent non-expert may come up with interesting insights. Regards,
Swarup

Swarup: According to my linguist friend, a retired professor in lingustics, there had been considerable lexical borrowing by Tamil from Sanskrit and considerable structural borrowing by Sanskrit from Tamil. This is generally accepted by some other linguists also. If you like I can suggest some books on linguistics. Encyc. Britannica has a good coverage of languages. The late A.K.Ramanujan of the University of Chicago contributed, if I remember correctly. He was a Kannadiga of Tamil origin.

( I am not RR. He is the administrator. I am Raj using the id rajraj, a moderator. You may call me Raj ! :) )

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Originally Posted by Hyderbadi

Guys, go to Andhra Pradesh or Karnataka and tell people that Tamil is the oldest language or that Tamil is the mother of Telugu/Kannada. You will be laughed at and people will only ridicule you. Heck, you will be ridiculed if you say the same thing anywhere in India outside of TN.

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Hmm......donno abt other parts of India but I've come across even *certain* Telugus having the superiority complex abt Telugu, even claiming tat it formed as a base for Sanskrit, altho it has been proved from many sources the other way round! :)
I actually found sum info. on this in the forum of andhranews.com which I'm pasting here:

The word Telugu transformed from the word 'ThriLinga' (like Kalinga).
Telugu language is a direct descent of Sanskrit. Sankrit was the only spoken language in Ancient India (even in other parts of the world). During the last Treta Yuga (Around 2.0 million years ago of Lord Rama's time), Agastya Mahamuni has compiled (from sanskrit) a New Languange/s for Normal usage to humans. I am not sure how they are named but some historians say they are named something similar to Tamil (also probably Telugu or Prakrit as mentioned below).
And from these derived languages came all other world languages such as French, Russian, English. English Alphabets are nothing but 'E-gunitham' of Telugu (Hindi or Any Indian) languange's Alphabets. Similarly Russian/Ukrainian is a 'A-gunitham of Telugu (or Any Indian) language's Alphabets.

I am sorry that the topic seems to be moving away and that I am partly responsible. I have been participating a bit in andhranews and find it a bit difficult. The moderator seems to be good but it is difficult to continue any discussion there. People seem to just keep repeating their opinions and get abusive after a while. Sometimes websites seem to be avenues for parochialism rather than information or discussion. This seems to a problem on a larger scale even with newspapers and TV. I wonder whether we are entering an age of disinformation and opinions. Sorry about this post.
Swarup

Swarup garu, :D
Yes I think I did notice u in Andhranews.com......ur "Anand" there rite?
And yes, ur rite abt the behaviour of the ppl. there! :evil:
I don't rem. ever coming across such uncouth, unreasonable ppl. here in the Hub (thankfully)!
Main reason y I stopped posting there altho I still visit itat site occasionally.....
Neways, I guess we shud move on w/ the main topic now......I wud particularly like to know the evolution of certain words from Tamil into Telugu, if ne-one cud fill us in on this?

Thanks for Idiappam, Lambretta,
gaddeswarup, Rajraj & hyderabaddi expressing their views.

Tamil belongs to Everybody in India due to its motherliness. It was wrongly preached that Sanskrit was the first language in India. If anybody with unbiased way interprets the ancient history he will find about that.

There are enough proofs to show tamil's antiquity. Forthcoming findings in history will also prove this.I shall write about Indian ancient history including the origin of Vedhas after sometime.

Dear Hyderabaddi, kindly do not ask ordinary people about history. Go and ask 'Dravidian university' professors, Kuppam in Anthra. The University was opened by the great N.T.RAMARAO and funded by Mr. Chandrababu Naidu Government and present Anthra Government also pumps funds into that.

f.s.gandhi

Friends,

We need to appreciate the work of Missionaries in Linguistic Research, and man like Bishop Caldwell and Father. Heras etc.,

In the meanwhile we should also accept Research Truths.

Dr.M.DEIVAnayagam, a Disciple has proved with Doctral Thesis that entire Tamil Knowledge is from missionary work of Saint.Thomas, apostle of Our Lord Jesus, and we need to acknowledge this.
PaulThomas

any links available, PT?

If entire Tamil's knowledge is from Saint Thomas then I wonder why Kerala people stood behind Tamils :roll:

Not only they also all the other folks where Thomas had been first.

Please offer me the link to that Doctor, and I will get my Dr.Dr. in disproving him!

Think twice babe, also arround the corner.

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Originally Posted by paulthomas

Friends,

We need to appreciate the work of Missionaries in Linguistic Research, and man like Bishop Caldwell and Father. Heras etc.,

In the meanwhile we should also accept Research Truths.

Dr.M.DEIVAnayagam, a Disciple has proved with Doctral Thesis that entire Tamil Knowledge is from missionary work of Saint.Thomas, apostle of Our Lord Jesus, and we need to acknowledge this.
PaulThomas

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All the major religions of today and all ancient cultures of pre historic period had knowledge from Ancient tamil culture. Kindly Visit my post in 'History of tamils' column.

The doctorate degree might be awarded to Deivanayakam for his comparative studies. Thiru.Meenakshi Sundaram Pillai also made this kind of comparative studies like " Asthtthayiyium Tholkappiayamum".

If Deivanayakam insists on the theory that Tamils came from Europe which some Indo-European scholars still believes, that should be summarily rejected because man evolution could not be possible in cold European environment.

The linking elements that are found as truth as I explained in this column shall prove culture went south to north or north west.

f.s.gandhi

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Dr.M.DEIVAnayagam, a Disciple has proved with Doctral Thesis that entire Tamil Knowledge is from missionary work of Saint.Thomas, apostle of Our Lord Jesus, and we need to acknowledge this.
PaulThomas

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Never mind!! If Tamil indeed came from Hebrew and all its knowledge from Israel, then alas! we cannot but admit it and just be happy about it. We should give credit when it is due and to whom it should rightly belong!!

But two German professors have drawn striking similarity between Sermon on the Mount and Bhuddist scriptures. with the possibility ("proof" they say ) that NT materials were from Bhuddism.

Now you have to discuss in tripartite terms. Bhuddism, Christianity and VaLLuvam. You also should be aware Bhuddism was prevalent in TN at around the Sangam period (see MaNimEkalai).

Jesus is said to have professed Adwaitham philosophy prevalent in part of Hindusim or the old religion of India prior to Bhudda. He was also said to have been buried in Pakistan (which of course the Church cannot agree).

What I am saying is: Mr Paulthomas, before anything, please sort out all these conflicting data so that we can prepare ourselves to receive Dr Deivanayagam. WHERE DID ALL THESE KNOWLEDGE COME FROM? THE real SOURCE!

It appears now that we are going into an area which is called a collateral issue ( not directly relevant to the topic but only relevant to something relevant) but since you have brought it up a second time in this forum, I have to seek your learned clarification!!

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Originally Posted by F.S.Gandhi vandayar

Tamil belongs to Everybody in India due to its motherliness. It was wrongly preached that Sanskrit was the first language in India.
f.s.gandhi

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I have been a silent reader of this forum since i joined and now I just felt I have to express what I(non-tamil) think-

Sorry to give you the news that Tamil does not belong to me even if you are giving me any reward to accept that nor I think its the mother of my language. This does not mean i disrespect tamil or any other language for that matter, but it is not my choice at all because I'm not a tamilian. Everybody has their own language and high respect for their language and state. U cannot change a non-tamil's feeling for tamil by submitting article over article over article.....which looks more like Tamil propaganda than a history information.

All the best in ur tamil propaganda!!

Good luck in changing a non-tamil's mind by ur tamil propaganda.

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Tamil belongs to Everybody in India due to its motherliness

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All Indian languages belong to all Indians and Tamil being one of the languages of India, other Indians would also have regard for Tamil as indeed a Tamil should have regard for all other Indian languages. Tamil is one of the oldest languages in India and this is an added reason for enhanced regard all of which should flow from the broadmindedness one Indian should display or expected to display for another. Which language is the oldest is a matter for linguistic research.

In a broad sense, Tamil belongs to all Indians and every language in India should also belong to all Indians.

In a restricted and narrow sense, Tamil has nothing to do with other Indians as they neither speak nor understand it. Whether others have any regard for Tamil or not would depend on other factors. ( Needless to say that we do not expect educated Indians aware of the need for unity in India to hold on to this restricted and narrow view.)

The Indian government has shown regard and appreciation for Tamil by declaring it as a classical language, It is part of the heritage of India and the Indians.

Looking at the picture from another angle, how other Indians consider Tamil is a non-issue and quite irrelevant. In this view, no Indian need have any regard for a language of another Indian, which language is not his. (Not good for people of India, we all know.)

Having no regard for any language other than your mother tongue is a common phenomenon all over the world and nothing unusual.

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Originally Posted by binal142001

I have been a silent reader of this forum since i joined and now I just felt I have to express what I(non-tamil) think-

Sorry to give you the news that Tamil does not belong to me even if you are giving me any reward to accept that nor I think its the mother of my language. This does not mean i disrespect tamil or any other language for that matter, but it is not my choice at all because I'm not a tamilian. Everybody has their own language and high respect for their language and state. U cannot change a non-tamil's feeling for tamil by submitting article over article over article.....which looks more like Tamil propaganda than a history information.

All the best in ur tamil propaganda!!

Good luck in changing a non-tamil's mind by ur tamil propaganda.

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Tamil is not put on sale. It is a Rolls Royce and you need a driver. Outsiders always stand outside and when you sit inside then you'll come to know that it is a car like any other car but a wonderful one to drive with.

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Originally Posted by Bebeto

Tamil is not put on sale. It is a Rolls Royce and you need a driver. Outsiders always stand outside and when you sit inside then you'll come to know that it is a car like any other car but a wonderful one to drive with.

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:roll: Hm....u r giving contradicting statements- u say tamil is not on sale and then say its a rolls royce. Be clear as to what u want to say.

I never said tamil is not sale...no language or heritage or history can be.
i just mentioned the word "reward" and even using that was a metaphor.

ok..even if its a rolls royce I could have/buy a rolls royce- u do not know my financial capabilities. and one more thing if i own a rolls royce does that mean i own tamil :lol: ...no it does not.

So r u trying to say that tamil is supreme or what??
It might be for Tamil people as i told but not for non-tamil.

there is a saying-
"To each his own"

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Originally Posted by binal142001

All the best in ur tamil propaganda!!

Good luck in changing a non-tamil's mind by ur tamil propaganda.

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Hey!

You really mean it when you wish, "good luck" here?! :roll:

If you did I appreciate your open-mind! :)

If I were you, I would have ignored this thread because I am a south-Indian non-tamil and I hate tamil more than anything in my life! :)

stranger,
if u r a non-tamil and if you hate tamil more than anything in your life why is it that i see that a lot of your posts are in tamil language(with english script ofcourse)????

NO, I said, if I were you!

I meant if I were you, a non-tamil living in B'lore and tired of seeing tamils.

sorry about the poor communication! :)

I do completely ignore this thread just like I ignore a tamilian. Just thought I should pinch this discussion a bit :lol:

Yeah, I do understand your feelings but unfortunately you could only "almost completely" ignore this thread and not completely as u wished for. :lol:

[deleted)

I learn quite a lot from here.

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So r u trying to say that tamil is supreme or what??

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The title of the thread is Tamil - Elderliness, and not Tamil supreme! Here the writer of quoted line has misdirected himself!! In the nature of things in this world, something must be old, some other thing must be not so old and something else most recent. Anything can be old, for example the language of Nagaland (let's assume). This does not mean that you must bring yourself in direct opposition to that thing which is proposed or discovered to be old. To take such a stance is to get yourself worked up meaninglessly for no reason. If you can be happy with proposed antiquity of Sankrit, for the same reason logically . you should also tolerate the claimed antiquity of Tamil. The basis for decision one way or other depends on linguistic evidence and not on personal feelings, likes and dislikes.

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I do completely ignore this thread just like I ignore a tamilian.

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Pl do so! Ignore ...and that is the best you can do, if you are not an enthusiast, exponent or student of linguistics it is not for you since you may run the risk of misdirecting yourself. The elderliness or motherliness of Tamil or Sanskrit or any other classical language is not ipso facto against your own mother tongue or any other language you love!! In Linguistics as in any other discipline, one must at all times be objective and be balanced in view.

binal is facing marital problems as she said in her thread in the misc section. She should better buy a propper driver first and then the Rolls Royce if she is not facing any financial problems. Neglected housewifes are the most desperates.

The Tease is mine - a new saying

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Originally Posted by Bebeto

Neglected housewifes are the most desperates.

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Why the neglect??

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Originally Posted by Uthappam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bebeto

Neglected housewifes are the most desperates.

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Why the neglect??

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You mean all housewifes? ayyO, ayyO! We don't want more headaches or do we?