Blind worshipping of Thamizh cinema rasigan

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Originally Posted by selvakumar

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and i feel its pure stupidity that fans pour milk for cut outs.... goodness.... do u know how much milk is wasted there?? u can easily donate those milks to the poor childs.... how many kids r on the streets that r hungry and yearning for atleast a cup of water... and these dumbos pour milk on cut outs as if they r some deities .... and sad to say this only happens in Tamil industry....[plz educate me if even Hindi, Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada fans do these same foolishness]....

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The milk that we pour on our GODS can also be very well given to poor children. I agree with you on the 'Act' and why it should be stopped. Again, BELIEFS are restricted to a set of few. If one can ACCEPT milk abhisekam for our GODS, they can't question the BELIEF of a normal fan. It should be LEFT as a BELIEF.

Moreover, I am damn sure that welfare activities done by fan clubs (be it blood donation, helping blind children etc) won't be done by most of the PETERS who SIT in A/C rooms and criticize poor fans. There could be few exceptions. AFAIK, this is the general thing.

Dinesh - I had the same opinion of yours couple of years back. I have changed. It is little complicated and I don't know how to put it in right words.

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Selva.... true... but i myself do not approve on the abhishegam for Gods as well. In the name of tradition cum religion, they r actually wasting many food product which could be used for useful purposes.... <---- this may be sensitive to the ardent devotees ... sorry for it, but just expressing my view...

yes Selva, that is the good part in a fan club. doing charity and blood donating.... like in ARR grp, I see many fans r doing anadhanam very often... thats a good sign.... :)

in every aspect or matter , there will be GOOD and BAD... everything.... so im pointing on the bad aspect and want some changes in it at least.... :)

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Originally Posted by dinesh2002

Selva.... true... but i myself do not approve on the abhishegam for Gods as well. In the name of tradition cum religion, they r actually wasting many food product which could be used for useful purposes.... <---- this may be sensitive to the ardent devotees ... sorry for it, but just expressing my view...

yes Selva, that is the good part in a fan club. doing charity and blood donating.... like in ARR grp, I see many fans r doing anadhanam very often... thats a good sign.... :)

in every aspect or matter , there will be GOOD and BAD... everything.... so im pointing on the bad aspect and want some changes in it at least.... :)

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Perfectly fine Dinesh. I don't have any problems with your views. But don't assume that fans who do that are all BAD and can harm the societal structure. They have their SPACE and room unlike religious fanatics and political rowdies. Fans are not what they are projected outside. As you said, there are fans in your group who consider Rahmaan as god. Similarly, many do charity works. Every aspect or matter has its own set of +ves and -ves. Be it actors, directors or music directors.

the point is that still there is a condition in our country that means there needs to be dhaanams to poor. If we keep spending crucial time on watching repeat after repeat the same movie, paalabishekams, wasting time on coordinating theatre visits and planning vitriole campaign on competitor films, there will be poverty that requires anna dhaanam , TV dhaanam etc., When will the poor of our country learn to go up in life without accepting status quo. What have the fans who are not all illiterates doing for that - they can use their intelligence to creating a generation that needs no dhaanam or one that gives no dhaanam to show their antrholpological side or that of their 'STAR'.
adhai vittuttu AC roomla okkandhu ezudharaan, fan keezhe okkaandhu ezudharaan is sappai kattu argument.

Also the over hyping of limited talent of a 'STAR' actually crushes real talent and blocks real talent from getting visibility or commercial viability. Indha 'STAR' irundhaa podhum kadhaye venaam andha aravekkaadu directorum padam eduthu First day grand openingle laabam paatudalaamgara kevalamaana situation ozhnjaa dhaan, cinema as a true art will become visible to our audience - till that date - it will be only a spectacle held hostage by - forgive my wording - visiladichaan _____ gal.

I have a completely different take on this...
Gone are the days of one (or few) benevolent patrons of art. Now if you want to see good art, then that art form (good or bad) must be commerically viable.

People usually say good movies compete with bad movies. but they usually forget that *movies* compete with other forms of entertainment too. The Star system ensures that the industry as a whole (Producers, directors, Distributors, Theatre owners) all can make a living. It is because some movies/stars can create festive atmospheres out of movie watching that they compete so effectively with sports events, rock concerts etc. I think it is because of the Star system that movies in our part of the world earn so much revenue compared to other forms of entertainment.

Next, not all money earned disappears into the pockets of the stars. On average, I would guess that between 70-90% of a movie's collection goes to some one other than the star himself. I think that is still a great ratio!

70 to 90%? I doubt that.
Producers complain that the biggest chunk of movie making cost is consumed by the star. the first person to raise the salary if a film succeeds is the star. Add to that the new phenomenon of stars demanding a percentage of their film's total sales as the salary - this is nothing but post release payment /kappam for the star. What is the star going to do with that much money? make more high quality films? - No - and the money is ultimately the hard work of their fans who in the limited time they have for earning money toiled and put together. Finally the whole money they spend on a black ticket, hyped up FDFS ticket set by the theatres is another form of addiction like smoking, drinking, lottery etc., the creators have to still beg and plead with another producer. The producer - actor - distributor nexus is what is stopping the film world from unleashing creative genius pent up in our film world. I have seen many a writer and director who has seen gems from around the world like 'Midnight Cowboy' still yearning to make a movie atleast half that good - and midnight cowboy was released way back in 1970s. It is how backward we are as far as quality is concerned. Whenever low quality output is made a mega success - it destroys 10 other high quality films from being produced. Like one George bush vistory setting the whole world back by a decade.

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Originally Posted by MADDY

oh i never knew ARRahman was a normal person like u and me........wonderful......what is "low way" btw??

i think this will become yet another naan kadavul thread discussions.....there are some wrong assumptions from the "pagathhuarivu side" here:

1. Its the art and not personal character which draws people to a man.......rajinikanth or ajith didnt get fans just becos they were good people, ppl. got attracted to them, and their good behavior is just a value add..........so relationship betn a artist and a fan stays largely "art" and not personal as some think in HUB........
2. converse of it - why shouldnt we support a "criminal" - i mean, if osama bin laden makes a good movie, y shuldnt we appreciate it.......there enters personal perspective......there are people who see cinema people as part of society as well.......jsut like a corrupt politician is stoned by public, if caught (sad it is), a cinemaman with bad behavior will also be criticised......criticism on him based on his wrong public life however shuld be restricted to a social perspective and shuld not let that dominate the view of his product.....but, some people consider, neglecting his product is a token of "disappointment" with his social behavior...........
3. confusion betn real life and cinema life - its a pretty cliched line for educated people atleast for hubbers..........man, do u think a educated rajini fan thinks he can fight off 40 rowdies as he did in sivaji?? or a kamal fan thinks "cancer" can be cured by bullet shots.....or did anyone from a educated family lost career of life because of cinema.....i dont think people confuse cinema life with real life.......atleast educated people.......
4. assumption that jaiganes started for this purpose is wrong....he is peeved with movies getting good reviews just bcos of its fans.......so the line of arguements here are pretty disgressional

i certainly do not encourage fanatism, nobody is more important than urself in ur life but definitely feel education can only bring in this perspective......i'm sure this problem can be eradicated with increase in levels of education..............if someone has a job/career, why would he sit, thinking abt his idol???

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low way-cheap way. doing paal abihshekham, karpoora pooja,worshiping,fighting for him/her. seriously it's not needed. are u sure that all those who have a job or career don't do all these things and think only about their work? well i'm stopping here. :)

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Originally Posted by Wibha

low way-cheap way. doing paal abihshekham, karpoora pooja,worshiping,fighting for him/her. seriously it's not needed. are u sure that all those who have a job or career don't do all these things and think only about their work? well i'm stopping here. :)

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Kaalam kaalamaa nadandhuttu varudhu Arshu :wink: idha paththi pEsanum'naa kuraindhadhu 12 aam nootraandu varayil sella vEndum :lol2: 800 varushangalukku appuramum nee sonna (bolded lines) STOP aagala :lol:

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

Roshan,
naan sollala?? :lol:

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Yeah naanum idhayEthaan nenechEn :lol: :wink:

[quote="jaiganes"]70 to 90%? I doubt that.
Producers complain that the biggest chunk of movie making cost is consumed by the star. the first person to raise the salary if a film succeeds is the star. Add to that the new phenomenon of stars demanding a percentage of their film's total sales as the salary - this is nothing but post release payment /kappam for the star. What is the star going to do with that much money? make more high quality films? - No - and the money is ultimately the hard work of their fans who in the limited time they have for earning money toiled and put together. Finally the whole money they spend on a black ticket, hyped up FDFS ticket set by the theatres is another form of addiction like smoking, drinking, lottery etc., the creators have to still beg and plead with another producer. The producer - actor - distributor nexus is what is stopping the film world from unleashing creative genius pent up in our film world. I have seen many a writer and director who has seen gems from around the world like 'Midnight Cowboy' still yearning to make a movie atleast half that good - and midnight cowboy was released way back in 1970s. It is how backward we are as far as quality is concerned. Whenever low quality output is made a mega success - it destroys 10 other high quality films from being produced. Like one George bush vistory setting the whole world back by a decade.[/quote]

Jaigaru

Now i can understand the intention of this thread.

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Originally Posted by MADDY

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

Maddy,
Too bad even you are falling for age-old cliches and myths, even though they have been exposed yet again :(

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:oops: this thread was tempting to resist :lol:

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Maddy,
I meant something else :)
Anyway, never mind.. PM la solren

the issue starts when an actor starts to misuse his fans for his own benifits and the fan expects extra benifits from the actor other than entertainment.

this type of fanatism shouldnt make the actor feel like a king or god and shouldnt make the fan feel like a disciple of the actor in real life going by his onscreen personality

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Originally Posted by Vivasaayi

the issue starts when an actor starts to misuse his fans for his own benifits

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[quote="Alek Niranjan"]

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

70 to 90%? I doubt that.
Producers complain that the biggest chunk of movie making cost is consumed by the star. the first person to raise the salary if a film succeeds is the star. Add to that the new phenomenon of stars demanding a percentage of their film's total sales as the salary - this is nothing but post release payment /kappam for the star. What is the star going to do with that much money? make more high quality films? - No - and the money is ultimately the hard work of their fans who in the limited time they have for earning money toiled and put together. Finally the whole money they spend on a black ticket, hyped up FDFS ticket set by the theatres is another form of addiction like smoking, drinking, lottery etc., the creators have to still beg and plead with another producer. The producer - actor - distributor nexus is what is stopping the film world from unleashing creative genius pent up in our film world. I have seen many a writer and director who has seen gems from around the world like 'Midnight Cowboy' still yearning to make a movie atleast half that good - and midnight cowboy was released way back in 1970s. It is how backward we are as far as quality is concerned. Whenever low quality output is made a mega success - it destroys 10 other high quality films from being produced. Like one George bush vistory setting the whole world back by a decade.[/quote]

Jaigaru

Now i can understand the intention of this thread.

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Forget my intentions - post what you think - I just opened the thread - i am not moderating it. I guess this post and thread would equally offend fans of other big stars who have been churning out junk and still meeting BO success. If it offends - then that is the intention- satsfied?

[quote="jaiganes"]

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Originally Posted by Alek Niranjan

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

70 to 90%? I doubt that.
Producers complain that the biggest chunk of movie making cost is consumed by the star. the first person to raise the salary if a film succeeds is the star. Add to that the new phenomenon of stars demanding a percentage of their film's total sales as the salary - this is nothing but post release payment /kappam for the star. What is the star going to do with that much money? make more high quality films? - No - and the money is ultimately the hard work of their fans who in the limited time they have for earning money toiled and put together. Finally the whole money they spend on a black ticket, hyped up FDFS ticket set by the theatres is another form of addiction like smoking, drinking, lottery etc., the creators have to still beg and plead with another producer. The producer - actor - distributor nexus is what is stopping the film world from unleashing creative genius pent up in our film world. I have seen many a writer and director who has seen gems from around the world like 'Midnight Cowboy' still yearning to make a movie atleast half that good - and midnight cowboy was released way back in 1970s. It is how backward we are as far as quality is concerned. Whenever low quality output is made a mega success - it destroys 10 other high quality films from being produced. Like one George bush vistory setting the whole world back by a decade.[/quote]

Jaigaru

Now i can understand the intention of this thread.

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Forget my intentions - post what you think - I just opened the thread - i am not moderating it. I guess this post and thread would equally offend fans of other big stars who have been churning out junk and still meeting BO success. If it offends - then that is the intention- satsfied?

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IMO

Nothing wrong in meeting BO Success. If there is no BO Success, the Creator will be forgottn.

[quote="Alek Niranjan"]

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

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Originally Posted by Alek Niranjan

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

70 to 90%? I doubt that.
Producers complain that the biggest chunk of movie making cost is consumed by the star. the first person to raise the salary if a film succeeds is the star. Add to that the new phenomenon of stars demanding a percentage of their film's total sales as the salary - this is nothing but post release payment /kappam for the star. What is the star going to do with that much money? make more high quality films? - No - and the money is ultimately the hard work of their fans who in the limited time they have for earning money toiled and put together. Finally the whole money they spend on a black ticket, hyped up FDFS ticket set by the theatres is another form of addiction like smoking, drinking, lottery etc., the creators have to still beg and plead with another producer. The producer - actor - distributor nexus is what is stopping the film world from unleashing creative genius pent up in our film world. I have seen many a writer and director who has seen gems from around the world like 'Midnight Cowboy' still yearning to make a movie atleast half that good - and midnight cowboy was released way back in 1970s. It is how backward we are as far as quality is concerned. Whenever low quality output is made a mega success - it destroys 10 other high quality films from being produced. Like one George bush vistory setting the whole world back by a decade.[/quote]

Jaigaru

Now i can understand the intention of this thread.

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Forget my intentions - post what you think - I just opened the thread - i am not moderating it. I guess this post and thread would equally offend fans of other big stars who have been churning out junk and still meeting BO success. If it offends - then that is the intention- satsfied?

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IMO

Nothing wrong in meeting BO Success. If there is no BO Success, the Creator will be forgottn.

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churning out junk part doesnt bother you or does it?
if it doesn't then we have no fiurther discussion - you have your well informed opinion and i have mine. OTOH if it does bother you to look at a 'favourite star's' BO hit film that is definitely a low quality one - then we have a discussion on

Jaiganes, Just a few points that strike my mind... Not even sure if it applies to this thread in any way!

* A person becomes a fan of an actor, because he/she likes the works of that actor. But just because someone is a fan of an actor, it doesnt mean he/she "should" like all the movies of that actor by default. And it would be very unfair for that actor to take his fans for granted and expect them to like whatever movie he comes out with! It's the fan's choice to like or dislike his favorite actor's movie. Does it make him less of a fan or not a fan at all? Heq No!

* It would also be unfair for that fan to be ruled out by other fellow-fans for being honest abt his likes and dislikes!

* Basic concept: The job of an actor is to give good movies, if he wants to be liked by his fan! Only when a movie is good, it will be liked by the audience no matter how big the star is.

* An actor should take every movie seriously. He cannot just live with his past work/image for too long. If the actor does not put in the needed effort on the character, but just uses his image, it only will disappoint his fans more!

* Being a crazy fan is not a mistake! But just because you're a crazy fan, if you just approve of anything and everything your favorite does, whether it on-screen or off, then it's a mistake!

SPOT on - bay.
Being a fan is fine - but to worship only the star and disregard other priorities is not fine. if you fall at the feet of your parents just because a star told you- then there are two problems with you.
a- you weren't paying attention to all the right things screaming at you in the first place and
b- you let another entity take control - tomorrow the same star might start telling you what you should believe or not believe, whom to vote or not vote for - all dangerous forms of contorl you put on your head for sake of a 'fave star'.

* The star should also realize how "embarassing" it is for an ardent fan in front of his friends and foes when he comes out with a bad movie! :oops:

* The problem is, calling a movie good or bad is very subjective, and just because a few fans dislike a movie, it doesnt always become a flop, and when it becomes a hit on the contrary, the star fails to realize he has come up with a bad movie, and continues to not put in the effort to come up with good ones! :cry:

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

...
Whenever low quality output is made a mega success - it destroys 10 other high quality films from being produced. Like one George bush vistory setting the whole world back by a decade.

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Would we ever say:
* When a <put yr 'favorite' bad book here> is published, it prevents 10 other potential 'Shakespeare's or 'Bernard Shaw's from being published.
* When a Kumudam/Ananda Vikatan become successful, the publishing industry is set back by a decade.

Why do we think that in the movie industry alone, people will choose one movie over another? Seriously, how many people decide "I will only watch 10 movies this year" (OK - NRIs may do this for movies in the theatre bcos of the exorbitant pricing, but those in India?)

My points were:
The industry will automatically scale to fulfill demand. If our stars do not provide this, other forms (non-movie forms) may step in and consume our thirst for entertainment.
Good movies do not have to compete on the same level as regular masala movies. They can choose to charge premiums based on an intro by the director. They can chooseto charge premiums for discussion circles or DVD-sharing/viewing groups. It is a choice they make to screen these movies in a densely populated theatre that offers the same environment that is offered to a masala movie.
Regards,
LL

The parallel stream from where a Rajini and Kamal came to their limelight has been not only abandoned by them, but frequently abused. Even last night, saw 'Aval Appadiththaan' and was amazed at the restrained, meaningful performances by Kamal and Rajini - the film was ahead by million miles the later work both the actors have done. Now they are not doing even one film like that - the reason - 'image' - a gauntlet put on their necks by their 'adoring' fans. While Rajini has a macho image - Kamal has a different image - an image that means that his films if they veer off in certain lines, will not be appreciated by their fans and that means will not be saleable - This is their bane. Even after some 15 years on top of this so called 'industry' they cannot do what they want to - hey ram bombed, Baba flopped - while Hey Raam failed because it was too much of a 'Kamal' movie, Baba flopped because it was not fully Rajni movie enough. This blind worshipping by their fans in a creative control which has kept the wonderfult artistes in shackles and is yet another reason why the 'blind worshipping' should stop and the actors be what they are. The fans enjoy the 'sadistic' pleasure of getting their stars do only what 'they' want their stars do onscreen. Meaning it is repeated kiss scenes for the heck of it for Kamal and completely unrealistic stunt scenes at 60 for Rajini - As far as other heroes are concerned - they are asked to a good measure of stupid things themselves - This is fine if it is pure entertainment like 'record dance' - this is cinema - most modern form of art - that has so much of talent in India but only a handful to show for in terms of achievment. Our cinema too like our dirty roads and poor hygene a matter of shame that we have learnt to not just tolerate - but celebrate!!! :oops: :oops:

Some Simple facts:

Fans alone HAVE NOT, DO NOT and CANNOT make a film a hit.
Kamal cannot do Hey Ram NOT because the fans don't want it, but rather, the general public does not want it. Some people don't know that there are quite a few FANATICS (rikshaw karan, pazha vandi kaaran, kasaappu kadai kaaran types) have watched films like Guna and Mahanadhi 30+ times (IN THEATERS, not DVDs).
Till recent times, fans could guarantee only the opening, no matter who the actor is - Rajini, Kamal, Ajith, Vijay. In today's scenario of wide releases, even the fans strength will not fill up all the theaters for the opening itself. Nowadays, the general public can go for a FDFS unlike in the past.
Its the general public who decide the fate of a film at the box office. Its always been that way

Kamal is trapped not by his fans but by the harsh realities of the market. To win a war, you might have to lose some battles. And he's doing one hell of an awesome job straddling the dichotomous divide in a tight-rope walk. He is peerless in this.


P.S: Fans did have an influence on Aandavar when they influenced him to change the title of "Drogi" to "Kurudhippunal" and also modify his character compared to the original.

but have influenced him to keep a intro song and fight in VV?
I dont dispute your facts of kasappukadai kaaran watching Guna 30 times in theatre as having been a person who has watched Guna in thatre 2 times and revisiting it on my DVD some 10 times myself.
However from 'Aval Appadithaan' to his recent films, his market clout and 'influence' has increased upwards and this means that he cantry out something new right - something better than 'Aval Appadithaan' - but touch your heart and say if such a movie has been made by him - Agreed - he is putting his money back into cinema - is it the cinema he set out to make with 'Aval Appadithaan'? there are reports how he contributed financially to the making of this movie as well as so many good ones of late 70s nd early eighties - when he did not enjoy the 'star' status.
When he acquired 'star status', fan base - a base with fans like you and me - who are ready to consume whatever he gives, while we got our 'Pushpaks' and 'Mahanadhi's they were still not enough - and why the need for grandiose projects? what happened to 'Aval Appadithaan' type of films that are relevant even now? why did they die out - because the young and talented Kamal and Rajini simply showed their backs to such projects as they would not be accepted by their ' fans ' a good sample of the paying public - isn't it - by your own admission - kasappu padaikaaran, rickshaw kaaran, software engineers and doctors - al who want to be the best in their fields, but would not appreciate if their heroes do a 'Aval appadithaan' now. If they would then by market dynamics such movies with either kamal or rajini should have happened in large numbers by now.

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

Some Simple facts:

Fans alone HAVE NOT, DO NOT and CANNOT make a film a hit.

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Sorry to disagree! But I think there are a ton of crap movies that have become huge hits or atleast mediocre hits just cos the lead actor has/had a lot of fans...

On the other hand, many "great" movies have gone without a trace just because the lead actor doesnt have enough "mass" support! :oops:

Or atleast a big difference in the revenue/profits... Fans just increase the market size quite easily!

fans can never make a movie a hit, its like, thondars can never make a party win. its general audience both ways.

if a star gives continious hits, some part of general audience too slides as his fan and watch even his crap movies. but once some movie doesnt click, they are the 1st one to pullout themselves, whereas fan will be finding hard positives and will project thr movie as a good one. thats the difference, so sometimes a general audience who has a more liking on an actor is mistaken as a fan. No. never.

whatever it is, fans never have the power to make a movie hit. its all in the hands of general audience.

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Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar

if a star gives continious hits, some part of general audience too slides as his fan and watch even his crap movies. but once some movie doesnt click, they are the 1st one to pullout themselves, whereas fan will be finding hard positives and will project thr movie as a good one

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I guess you're proving the title of this thread! :P 8-) :P

i dont know what u mean but i gladly have posted negative news on kamal, dasa, vv or whatever. i am neutral and always ready to prove that. infact ppl like bala and DM rub with me sometimes when i said something different about kamal. a search will tell truth

at the same time, YES, I AM ONE GREAT FAN OF KAMAL HAASAN

If you feel no movie of his has bettered AA, its fine. unga karuthu (i rate AA very highly myself, one of the very best ever made).
AnA, it does not mean its been only downhill since then. Being one of the two biggest stars in the state, avar edutha muyarchigal ellam vera yarum eduthirukka mudiyadhu (of course NT apart).

"can try something new"-a? Come on, avar try pannaadhadha? And what is wrong with grandiose projects?

And avar remba naalaikkappuram ippo dhaan seriyaana paadhayil poikkondirukkiraar. Konjam porumaya irunga. Unga porumaya veen poga veikka maattaar!

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

but have influenced him to keep a intro song and fight in VV?
I dont dispute your facts of kasappukadai kaaran watching Guna 30 times in theatre as having been a person who has watched Guna in thatre 2 times and revisiting it on my DVD some 10 times myself.
However from 'Aval Appadithaan' to his recent films, his market clout and 'influence' has increased upwards and this means that he cantry out something new right - something better than 'Aval Appadithaan' - but touch your heart and say if such a movie has been made by him - Agreed - he is putting his money back into cinema - is it the cinema he set out to make with 'Aval Appadithaan'? there are reports how he contributed financially to the making of this movie as well as so many good ones of late 70s nd early eighties - when he did not enjoy the 'star' status.
When he acquired 'star status', fan base - a base with fans like you and me - who are ready to consume whatever he gives, while we got our 'Pushpaks' and 'Mahanadhi's they were still not enough - and why the need for grandiose projects? what happened to 'Aval Appadithaan' type of films that are relevant even now? why did they die out - because the young and talented Kamal and Rajini simply showed their backs to such projects as they would not be accepted by their ' fans ' a good sample of the paying public - isn't it - by your own admission - kasappu padaikaaran, rickshaw kaaran, software engineers and doctors - al who want to be the best in their fields, but would not appreciate if their heroes do a 'Aval appadithaan' now. If they would then by market dynamics such movies with either kamal or rajini should have happened in large numbers by now.

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Originally Posted by m_23_bayarea

Sorry to disagree! But I think there are a ton of crap movies that have become huge hits or atleast mediocre hits just cos the lead actor has/had a lot of fans...

On the other hand, many "great" movies have gone without a trace just because the lead actor doesnt have enough "mass" support! :oops:

Or atleast a big difference in the revenue/profits... Fans just increase the market size quite easily!

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Bay,
neenga solra maadhiri irundha oru Aalavandhaan-o, Baba-o nadandhirukkaadhu. yen indha rendu padatha solrennaa the tremendous hype and expectation these films had. After a certain level, the general fublic have to carry the film

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

However from 'Aval Appadithaan' to his recent films, his market clout and 'influence' has increased upwards and this means that he cantry out something new right - something better than 'Aval Appadithaan' - but touch your heart and say if such a movie has been made by him - Agreed - he is putting his money back into cinema - is it the cinema he set out to make with 'Aval Appadithaan'? there are reports how he contributed financially to the making of this movie as well as so many good ones of late 70s nd early eighties - when he did not enjoy the 'star' status.
When he acquired 'star status', fan base - a base with fans like you and me - who are ready to consume whatever he gives, while we got our 'Pushpaks' and 'Mahanadhi's they were still not enough - and why the need for grandiose projects? what happened to 'Aval Appadithaan' type of films that are relevant even now? why did they die out - because the young and talented Kamal and Rajini simply showed their backs to such projects as they would not be accepted by their ' fans ' a good sample of the paying public - isn't it - by your own admission - kasappu padaikaaran, rickshaw kaaran, software engineers and doctors - al who want to be the best in their fields, but would not appreciate if their heroes do a 'Aval appadithaan' now. If they would then by market dynamics such movies with either kamal or rajini should have happened in large numbers by now.

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I think you are crossing the line from objectivity to subjectivity when you say there has not been a better film than Aval Appadithan. So I won't argue on that.

If your grouse is that he fills gaps between good movies with 'commercial' ventures then I would point you to the review of 'Dark Knight' on Guardian here. Now anyone following Nolan's career graph would agree that the Dark Knight is a departure from his earlier efforts and would not be particularly relished by his fans. The last paragraph of the review says:
"..at the risk of sounding priggish, I can't help thinking it may be a bit of a career blind-alley for the talented director who gave us brilliant and disquieting movies like Following (1998) and Memento (2000), whose inventions still linger in the mind. The Dark Knight's massive box-office success has surely given Nolan the means to write his own cheque, and in addition something sweeter still - clout. I hope that he will use it to cultivate movies that are smaller and more manoeuvrable than that great armoured Batmobile."

This applies all the more to our movie industry. Inge, 'clout' sambaadhikkiradhu mattum mukkiyam illai. Adhai thakka vaithukkollavum theriya vendum. Adharkkaaga, Oru 'Hey Ram'irkkum 'Virumandi'kkum naduve Panchathandiramum PKS seivathu avasiyamaagirathu.

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Originally Posted by kannannn

Adharkkaaga, Oru 'Hey Ram'irkkum 'Virumandi'kkum naduve Panchathandiramum PKS seivathu avasiyamaagirathu.

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I slightly disagree here. Nothing "personal" against P5/PKS but i would rather he did a Dasa (or say, 1/10th of it) between a Hey Ram and Virumaandi than a P5/PKS :)

My wish is simple: Tholvi adainja Hey Ram, Mahanadhi madhiri padam pannittu thothu po, adhu actually vetri. Illai, VV/Dasa madhiri padam pannu. Not that i'm placing VV and Dasa on equal pedestals. No way!

Just a specific point. (I'd like to stay away from waxing eloquent on how Tamil cinema "should be" and so on. It has always looked like an out-and-out NP-complete problem to me. :))

I'm not sure if the media is actively appreciating only the films of these big stars we're talking about. Of course, it all becomes completely subjective. Depending on how much one appreciates a film vis-a-vis the proverbial "general response." I feel just about every film with even the slightest of artistic ambition is by and large celebrated by the media. The mainstream critics seem to lap them all up. In the past couple of decades, I can pick just a handful of films that I feel didn't get a favourable response overall from the media despite being pretty good.

To put it differently, I don't see media's lapping up 'dasavathAram' -- for example -- as just a case of "not wanting to earn the wrath of a big star." Of course, great hype on these films leads to greater celebration, but that's part of the game. That's why they are hyped at first place.

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Originally Posted by equanimus

To put it differently, I don't see media's lapping up 'dasavathAram' -- for example -- as just a case of "not wanting to earn the wrath of a big star." Of course, great hype on these films leads to greater celebration, but that's part of the game. That's why they are hyped at first place.

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Small nitpick :razz:
1. The media's lapping up of Dasavatharam is certainly not commensurate to its success and certainly less than what its skill and craft command, speaking in the context of its relative weighted worth among Tamil films :)
2. "Earn the wrath of a big star" certainly does not apply to Kamal Haasan. No way :)

There is a distinct feel of aping hollywood and bollywood when it comes to describing good movies/attempts by top talents like Kamal here. That is the path he does not wish Thamizh film world to take but unfortunately everything he does from creation, packaging to distribution has a huge hollywood after effect - it is market driven and will surely be a big burden for the 99% of talented film makers here to follow with just 10% of the market Hindi cinema has. The market oriented thought process is exactly what people like Rudraiyya , Kamal and KB sought to destroy with avant garde efforts like AA. I brought Aval Appadithaan into picture because it shows that we as artistes made a movie like this in 1978 before the concerned talents had fan worship and 30 years later we haven't churned out one hard hitting drama like this since and that is a sign of decay and deterioration that will precede a fall. What happens after Kamal and Rajini - one more set of stars allright - but have they done something like Aval appadithaan? Answer no - not even in their dreams - then it will follow that good films will become stuff of legends and archives and 'engeyo kelvi patta' facts than 'rare occassions'. Then we will be staring at our own cultural death heralded by decaying tastes - market machinations - the ultimate sell out of creativity. It is certainly not what people who participated in Aval appadithaan did not want to see 30 years since.

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Originally Posted by kannannn

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

However from 'Aval Appadithaan' to his recent films, his market clout and 'influence' has increased upwards and this means that he cantry out something new right - something better than 'Aval Appadithaan' - but touch your heart and say if such a movie has been made by him - Agreed - he is putting his money back into cinema - is it the cinema he set out to make with 'Aval Appadithaan'? there are reports how he contributed financially to the making of this movie as well as so many good ones of late 70s nd early eighties - when he did not enjoy the 'star' status.
When he acquired 'star status', fan base - a base with fans like you and me - who are ready to consume whatever he gives, while we got our 'Pushpaks' and 'Mahanadhi's they were still not enough - and why the need for grandiose projects? what happened to 'Aval Appadithaan' type of films that are relevant even now? why did they die out - because the young and talented Kamal and Rajini simply showed their backs to such projects as they would not be accepted by their ' fans ' a good sample of the paying public - isn't it - by your own admission - kasappu padaikaaran, rickshaw kaaran, software engineers and doctors - al who want to be the best in their fields, but would not appreciate if their heroes do a 'Aval appadithaan' now. If they would then by market dynamics such movies with either kamal or rajini should have happened in large numbers by now.

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I think you are crossing the line from objectivity to subjectivity when you say there has not been a better film than Aval Appadithan. So I won't argue on that.

If your grouse is that he fills gaps between good movies with 'commercial' ventures then I would point you to the review of 'Dark Knight' on Guardian here. Now anyone following Nolan's career graph would agree that the Dark Knight is a departure from his earlier efforts and would not be particularly relished by his fans. The last paragraph of the review says:
"..at the risk of sounding priggish, I can't help thinking it may be a bit of a career blind-alley for the talented director who gave us brilliant and disquieting movies like Following (1998) and Memento (2000), whose inventions still linger in the mind. The Dark Knight's massive box-office success has surely given Nolan the means to write his own cheque, and in addition something sweeter still - clout. I hope that he will use it to cultivate movies that are smaller and more manoeuvrable than that great armoured Batmobile."

This applies all the more to our movie industry. Inge, 'clout' sambaadhikkiradhu mattum mukkiyam illai. Adhai thakka vaithukkollavum theriya vendum. Adharkkaaga, Oru 'Hey Ram'irkkum 'Virumandi'kkum naduve Panchathandiramum PKS seivathu avasiyamaagirathu.

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To begin with - I am not against an actor doing movie 'X' or movie 'Y' - but when both are being made only to taste commercial success, there sets in a depression that 'I made movie Y - which is ulaga tharam - but people did not accept' argument - not that Kamal is deterred because of that - but it means that the bank balance becomes difficult to manage and it necessitates more 'X' movies - which brings down the overall average quality of our movies even further down - A movie like Aval Appadithaan or 'Thanneer Thanneer' doesn't cost millions and can earn its value back in just film festival screenings and national award money - why not do that? why keep throwing your best work to market and say people have not improved their taste, it is market and lets us not hallucinate that our thazh janagal are all connoisseurs of fine art. The prime bane is the absence of arthouse cinemas and people like Kamal - who have piles of knowledge on this subject should create a parallel movement towards that, free from clutches of market - fans and so called 'general public'. Hollywood or bollywood stars need not do that - however we are regional and to preserve our sensibilities we need to have our own treasure cove.

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

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Originally Posted by kannannn

Adharkkaaga, Oru 'Hey Ram'irkkum 'Virumandi'kkum naduve Panchathandiramum PKS seivathu avasiyamaagirathu.

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I slightly disagree here. Nothing "personal" against P5/PKS but i would rather he did a Dasa (or say, 1/10th of it) between a Hey Ram and Virumaandi than a P5/PKS :)

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Hmm, actually yes. P5 and PKS are neither here nor there. But, I think that 'genre' has sort of become a safe bet for Kamal. IMO, a film like VV or Dasa carries higher stakes than PKS (even I couldn't help thinking back to AV before Dasa's release). And coming to think of it, PK5 and PKS even offer better scope for creativity than VV or Dasa.

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Originally Posted by equanimus

I'd like to stay away from waxing eloquent on how Tamil cinema "should be" and so on. It has always looked like an out-and-out NP-complete problem to me.

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:lol: All Indian film industries come under the set. Solve one and you solve them all.

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Originally Posted by equanimus

I'd like to stay away from waxing eloquent on how Tamil cinema "should be" and so on. It has always looked like an out-and-out NP-complete problem to me. :)

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

Small nitpick :razz:
1. The media's lapping up of Dasavatharam is certainly not commensurate to its success and certainly less than what its skill and craft command, speaking in the context of its relative weighted worth among Tamil films :)
2. "Earn the wrath of a big star" certainly does not apply to Kamal Haasan. No way :)

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Bala,
1. I'm not talking about the box office reports et al. The critical response has been positive enough (!) for 'dasAvathAram' as far as I see.
2. "nEkku adhu theriyAdhu." :P By the way, I was not referring to Kamal Haasan the individual here, but rather "Kamal Haasan" as the whole Tamil film world understands, which I believe was what Jaiganes meant too.

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

Bay,
neenga solra maadhiri irundha oru Aalavandhaan-o, Baba-o nadandhirukkaadhu. yen indha rendu padatha solrennaa the tremendous hype and expectation these films had. After a certain level, the general fublic have to carry the film

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CR, :P

But even in those movies, remember the amazing opening! That's possible only with big stars, because of their fans. No matter how bad the movies are, this "opening" factor makes a big difference in the revenue even if that movie fails to make profit. And this is possible only with fans. If a big star comes up with a really bad movie, there is still this opening and a revenue as a result. If some unknown actor comes up with the same movie, it will bite the dust from day 1 itself I guess! :)

>digr>
Warning: Irrelevant analogy ahead.

Track comedies are travesties against film grammar. But without that there would be no Goundamani.

Between grammar and Goundamani I think the choice is eminently clear.

<end digr.<

Add to that, there are some actors(?) that are "made" stars only because they have a lot of fans! This is probably the worst proposition... :roll:

I put a "?" after actors here just cos I'm not sure if some of these will exist as actors if only for their talents/skills and not for their fans! :oops:

Whether they're good actors or not again becomes a matter of subjectivity just like good or bad movies. Perhaps, they may even have so many fans because those fans might think these actors have the best skills to entertain them! :P