ARR Vs YSR Vs HJ

>>>>
so you realized that it was a lift as soon as it started playing. You didnt refer to any scoresheet to verify it. Then why talk about sheets and stuff to others unnecessarily?
<<<<

I had to refer to sheet because you weren't ready to accept it was a lift. You really don't need any sheet to verify it is a lift...If one disagrees, the only way to prove is to provide the sheet. I will upload the complete piece from my CD if time permits (i had already told this to dinesh when he asked for it. I just don't have the facility/time to do such uploading business from home).

Other folks in the forum can decide how correct or wrong it is. BTW, Bolero is famous for its multiple variants of the single theme.

"If one disagrees, the only way to prove is to provide the sheet.":

Providing sheet for one song alone doesnt serve any purpose. Also since we are comparing the main melody here, its enough if the notes are compared. You dont need a sheet to do that. I know for a fact that the rhythm pattern is different, the scales are differnt and notes are different too. Only the meter for "Mellisaye" is somewhat similiar. Not enough to qualify as a lift. At the most, a subtle inspiration.Even that would be a stretch. and inetk here says the same
http://www.itwofs.com/trivia.html

"I listen to Maurice Ravel's 'Bolero'. And so I did. Surprisingly, I felt there are definite shades of 'Bolero' in the Rahman number - sort of a subtle influence?"

He wonders if it was just a subtle influence. The "shades" he is talking about is probably the meter similiarity for the first 2 words. Personally I dont think there is even much influence, leave alone a lift.

விகடனில் யுவன், ஹாரிஸ் பற்றிய வித்யாசாகர் கமண்ட்...

http://www.dinamalar.com/2006dec19/vikatan.asp

வித்யாசாகர் தன்னைப்பற்றி:

"எனக்குன்னு ஒரு பாணியை நான் வச்சுக்கிட்டதேயில்லை"...

யுவன், ஹாரிஸ் பற்றி:

"இது யார் போட்ட பாட்டுன்னே தெரியாமல் இருந்தால், அது எப்படிப்பெரிய விஷயமாக இருக்க முடியும்?"...

நுணலும் தன் வாயால் கெடும்:-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by app_engine

வித்யாசாகர் தன்னைப்பற்றி:

"எனக்குன்னு ஒரு பாணியை நான் வச்சுக்கிட்டதேயில்லை"...

யுவன், ஹாரிஸ் பற்றி:

"இது யார் போட்ட பாட்டுன்னே தெரியாமல் இருந்தால், அது எப்படிப்பெரிய விஷயமாக இருக்க முடியும்?"...

நுணலும் தன் வாயால் கெடும்:-)

---

Puriyala :confused2:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2640/vidyahr2.jpg

Well Said VS about Quality and Hits.[/img]

பல்பு,
எது புரியலேங்கிறீங்க?

பழமொழிக்கு அர்த்தமா அல்லது அதை இங்க எப்படி அப்ளை பண்ணுறதுன்னா?:-)

எப்படி இருந்தாலும், விளக்கம்:

நுணல் = தவளை (சத்தம் போட்டு தனக்கே பிரச்னை உண்டாக்கும்)

வித்யா அது போல் மற்றவரைக்குறை சொல்லி (அதாவது சத்தம் போட்டு), தனக்கே அது அப்ளை ஆவதால் கவிழுகிறார்...

சில கேள்விகளுக்கு மௌனம் அல்லது ரஹ்மான் சொல்லற மாதிரி, 'நல்லா பண்ணறாங்க' தான் புத்திசாலித்தனமான பதில்...எஸ்பெஷலி, சொந்த மடியில் கனம் இருக்கும்போது:-)

what VS says applies to his songs too as they do not have any distinct identity. there is a malay proverb: lying on the back and spitting at the sky - that is exactly what VS has done.

app-engine is correct. :cry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Music4Ever

It is nice that NOV brought KVM, GR, and others. All of them were awesome. Dinesh, there is a treasure to be unearthed by young folks like you.

---

Last night Astro Vanavil showed a 5-hour concert called GR mudhal AR varai.
A lot of fantastic songs were sung by very good singers bringing back wonderful memories. Excited, I smsed Manisekaran and we traded sms on the going ons.

One of the songs sang was the classic ellaam inba mayam (originally sang by ML Vasanthakumari and P Leela) by two of Ragavendar's daughters. (Ragavendar is the man who acted in Sindhu Bairavi as the husband of Sindhu's mother.)

Manisekaran sms'ed me: This landmark song proved that carnatic music could grow in cinema. SS Iyer himself saw the film and then went to G Ramanathan to congratulate him.
GR fell upon the feet of SS and obtained his blessings.

That is classic music in cinema and humility of musicians for you!

nothing any wrong in vidyasagar comment.avar sonnathellam unmaithan..

VS sollarethu sirippu than varuthu. avaru oru thani baani vetchikiruthu illaiyam aana mattavenga baani patti ivaru pesuraru. VS nalla than isaiamaikirar ana intha mari comment kuduka kudathu. Ippa irukira sullnilaila padam hit analum paatu hit agarutillai (exp: Thimiru, irendu, perarasu & etc), padam veliya varuvathukulla paatu hit agavutum vunndu (Vallavan, SOK, VV, Pudhupettai). Innum solla pona paatu hit aganuthu nalatha intha padathuku kooduthal yethirpaarpei varuthu.

NOV, hopefully the AR means ARR and not a spelling mistake (with A for I). IIRC, until a few years ago, many experts used to bemoan the death of quality cine music after the IR era. Now for AR to be in that elite group consisting of GR, among others, seems to be somewhat of a turnaround in perceptions. Soon it will be VS varai and after ten years or so, provided Yuvan and Harris keep giving more hits and quality songs, it will be Yuvan varai or Harris varai.

Talking about humility I remember listening to a MSV speech on the occasion of SPB's 50th Birthday. MSV rather cynically said "silarukku sangeetham mattum dhan theriyum, aanal SPB-kku sangeethamum theriyum ingithamum theriyum". Wonder who he was targeting. When his turn came, IR for his part acknowledged MSV's greatness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Music4Ever

NOV, hopefully the AR means ARR and not a spelling mistake (with A for I).

---

why this lack of faith? it was indeed rahman (with his pix)
unfortunately for some (and fortunately for some yours truly included) most of the songs sung were of the 50/60s era. less than 10 songs were sung of IR, ARR eras. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Music4Ever

Soon it will be VS varai and after ten years or so, provided Yuvan and Harris keep giving more hits and quality songs, it will be Yuvan varai or Harris varai.

---

nope. all those you have mentioned are of the same era as arr.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Music4Ever

"silarukku sangeetham mattum dhan theriyum, aanal SPB-kku sangeethamum theriyum ingithamum theriyum".

---

ennai kEttaal idhellaam thEvai illaadha vishayangal.
as fans we have the right to criticise, but as artistes they should know thier place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muzammil_fr

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2640/vidyahr2.jpg

Well Said VS about Quality and Hits.[/img]

---

oops...i cant read tamil fast... can anyone give the gist of that article bit?! :oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muzammil_fr

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2640/vidyahr2.jpg

Well Said VS about Quality and Hits.[/img]

---

:clap: :whistle: Who said this ? BTW :confused2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by selvakumar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muzammil_fr

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2640/vidyahr2.jpg

Well Said VS about Quality and Hits.[/img]

---

:clap: :whistle: Who said this ? BTW :confused2:

---

Selva....its by Vidhyasagar ....

wut does it say??!! :confused2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinesh2002

Selva....its by Vidhyasagar ....

wut does it say??!! :confused2:

---

Question:
"when we consider the present generation, YSR and HJ immediately come to our mind. Have you listened to their music? Can u rate them?"

Answer:

As far I have listened, there is nothing notable. But just for that I don't want to say that they are not correct. IMO, As a fan they have not attracted me. Generally, irrespective of the composer, there must be an INDIVIDUALITY & SPECIALITY associated with the songs. If we can't predict who composed the music, then how that can be a big thing? All of their songs have same style and they are judged based on the success of their film. It is not based on their INDIVIDUALITY and this is my opinion.

Good song is one that gives joy and kindles our inner emotions. Songs should be complete in their own level. IF it is based on the HERO / HEROINE / CHOROEOGRAPHY etc of that song, then how can we accept it as a good song ? IF the film becomes HIT, the music in that one is marked as a HIT here. IF the film doesn't become a HIT, people tend to forget the songs in the film. HERE - Quality doesn't matter. Only Success is the main thing

P.S: dinesh I am not good in translating. Forgive me if u feel something

:lol:

haha..i think its great man... haha...wow..he said that so direct at YSR & HJ ??? weird...... is this coz of jelousy??? :?

YSR n HARRIS dont hve similar styles n vidyasagar is telling that out of jealousy i guess... hope he gives up the DANDARAKA DARAKU DAKA... n concentrates on something constructive... even SA Rajkumar is known for those LALALALALA... is that what he calls identity :lol2:

வித்யாசாகர் மாதிரி ஒரு முதிர்ச்சி அடைந்த இசை அமைப்பாளர் கிட்ட இருந்து இது போன்ற வார்த்தைகள எதிர்பார்க்கல. நிறை குடம் தழும்பாதுனு சொல்லுவாங்க. இங்க குடம் ஓவரா நிறைஞ்சு தழும்பிருச்சா இல்ல குடத்துல தண்ணியே இல்லாததுனால சத்தம் நிறைய வருதானு தெரியல.
ஏதோ ரெண்டு மூணு கிரேமி அவார்ட் வாங்கிட்டு யுவனை பத்தியோ ஹரீஸ் பத்தியோ பேசுணா அவங்களே தங்களோட தப்பை பத்தி யோசிப்பாங்க.

வித்யா சார், ஏன் இப்பட ஒரு வேண்டாத வேலை ??????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinesh2002

haha..i think its great man... haha...wow..he said that so direct at YSR & HJ ??? weird...... is this coz of jelousy??? :?

---

i dont think its coz of jealousy. VS is way ahead of HJ. Some melodies of VS like Malare, Panikatre, Un samayal araiyil, Ding Dong r still fresh. Thats not the case with HJ's songs.. He is technically superior. Thats all..

VS is known for his melodies.. Somehow nowadays we dont hear much news about him/his albums. Has he signed any new projects ?? His remarks shows signs of frustration..

VS is perfectly entitled to air his opinions.His work speaks volumes . Iam not surprised because on a good whole 45 minutes that I[ along with others] spent with VS in a recording studio, he vented his ire on the new breed MDs. This happened a year back. Bhradwaj also has nothing good to say about the current crop. I dont understand why we expect our fav MDS also to behave like these neutral hubbers
That aside, I give Yuvan the benefit of doubt in his ability to score carnatic songs. He has done a good job with few raga based songs like "theenda theenda", "churidhaar anindhu vandha sorgame" etc. Even his SinduBairavi based song "en isaiyil ingu kizhakku merkku" from a flop movie "PopKarn" is good. HJ also scored 2 nice classical songs "kumari"[Arabi], "iyengar veetu" [ Naatai] in Anniyan. Film music directors today are adept at applying varyious genre of music successfully. Iam positive about Yuvan

BTW hulkister, Iam not a "Sir" :).

Did you folks see "ThuLLaadha manam thuLLum" pugazh Priyasubramanian singing "vaseegara" in total carnatic style replete with swaram, mridhangam without changing the main melody, only changing the tempo with mridhangam in Jaya TV last Sunday? It could easily pass of as a song from PUChinnappa or MKT era. Just by changing the presentation, a slow , poppish melody like this can be transformed into a carnatic style. Remember how IR asked Yuvan to sing "Chinna kannan azhaikiraan" with drum beats and fast rythms? If that were the case, we would probably never realize the ReethigowLai beauty of that song.

>>he vented his ire on the new breed MDs. This happened a year back. Bhradwaj also has nothing good to say about the current crop<<

என் கணக்கில் இந்த ரெண்டு பேரும் (வித்யா, பரத்வாஜ்) கூட அதே "கரண்ட் கூட்டத்தில்" உள்ளவங்க தான்:-)
காமராஜர் ஸ்டைலில் சொன்னால், 'ஒரே குட்டையில் ஊறிய மட்டைகள்' :-)

app_engine. Not quite. VS, I believe is much older and he started composing sometime in the late 80s/early 90s with Nila peNNE. Although he is still currently active, he is talking about the younger brigade of MDs I think who are less than 6 years old in the industry. I agree with VS's opinions but I dont as much agree with him being the one saying that and him talking about individuality.

Bharadwaj is a joke. He had vented his vayatherichchal on Rahman directly a couple of times in the past. He said he had 6 films one year as against only 4 from Rahman or something like that :-)

If VS had passed his opinions on the general current trend without naming specific MDs it would have come across differently and not as sour grapes. But he didnt. None of today's MDs (barring Rahman of course) have any individuality. Like I have always said, thats the toughest thing to achieve in TFM. You can even give several hit albums(like Deva did in the 90s) without any individual style, but finding your own style/niche is within the reach of just a talented few.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thumburu

VS is perfectly entitled to air his opinions.His work speaks volumes . Iam not surprised because on a good whole 45 minutes that I[ along with others] spent with VS in a recording studio, he vented his ire on the new breed MDs. This happened a year back. Bhradwaj also has nothing good to say about the current crop. I dont understand why we expect our fav MDS also to behave like these neutral hubbers

---

Oru varushaththukke munname arambichchituraa?? He can talk about them whatever he wants. But does he have an answer if someone questions about his individuality?? If he does not, I don't think he is entitled to this kind of comments.

[tscii]"None of today's MDs (barring Rahman of course) have any individuality. Like I have always said, thats the toughest thing to achieve in TFM. You can even give several hit albums(like Deva did in the 90s) without any individual style, but finding your own style/niche is within the reach of just a talented few."

I think HJ has his own brand of uniqueness, although I am unable to specifically articulate what it is.

inetk, however, is helpful when he writes thus:

BEGIN QUOTE

June pona and Unnale unnale are the soundtrack’s highpoints, for their urban, pleasant pop sound, very unique to HJ.

END QUOTE

Perhaps that is HJ's uniqueness and perhaps that is what attracts the youth to his music now. Harris may not be a connoisseur's delight but he sure knows the pulse of today's youth, IMO.

Vijayr...i do agree that VS does not have individuality but his melodies are a class apart. He uses modern sounds classically to give the tune and the orchestration a uplift which is very unique. Of course ARR is no stranger to such tunes but VS has his own style of implementing modern sounds/keyboard with a classical tune :D

Thumburu nu koopiduraen..seriya? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hulkster

Vijayr...i do agree that VS does not have individuality but his melodies are a class apart. He uses modern sounds classically to give the tune and the orchestration a uplift which is very unique. Of course ARR is no stranger to such tunes but VS has his own style of implementing modern sounds/keyboard with a classical tune :D

---

trust me,that tune also wont be original,its probably an old IR's number.....

thats wut my IR fans relatives will say.... " hey,its an old IR song " ... do correct me ya...

"urban , pleasant pop sound" doesnt constitute any individuality. YSR has given similar pop songs in several albums. Rahman has done it long back. HJ hasnt brought any unique ideas to the table and his style of presentation is repetitive. YSR has the same problem too,but atleast he has shown a penchant for trying different other things so far(like Pudhupettai, Parudhi Veeran),even if the results are mixed. So he gets an edge there.

And I dont think today's youth have any clear cut favourites. Rahman has his fan base, but for the rest of the fans, its all about the flavor of the month. Survival is heavily dependent on the movie's fate and the picturization, like VS said. When the movie doesnt do that well(Like Thotti jaya or AruL or Arasaatchi) the youth doesnt give the songs a damn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vijayr

"urban , pleasant pop sound" doesnt constitute any individuality. YSR has given similar pop songs in several albums. Rahman has done it long back. HJ hasnt brought any unique ideas to the table and his style of presentation is repetitive. YSR has the same problem too,but atleast he has shown a penchant for trying different other things so far(like Pudhupettai, Parudhi Veeran),even if the results are mixed. So he gets an edge there.

And I dont think today's youth have any clear cut favourites. Rahman has his fan base, but for the rest of the fans, its all about the flavor of the month. Survival is heavily dependent on the movie's fate and the picturization, like VS said. When the movie doesnt do that well(Like Thotti jaya or AruL or Arasaatchi) the youth doesnt give the songs a damn.

---

well said...!!!! :clap: and the fact by Vijay is 100% true....

Hulkster, perhaps you dont know, I have been a strong vocal supporter of VS's melodies here in DF starting from the late 90s. But lets call a spade a spade. He has always been a trend follower, not a trendsetter by any stretch of the imagination.

Dineshthat's because VS has this knack of using IR style orchestration at times....chithirayil enna and thambi's poovanathil have IR style of orchestration.:hammer:..if he can avoid that his melodies will be more unique...but what cannot be denied about his originality is his classical melodies...thendral vanthu from pasakiligal and manmeethu thaan in emttan magan are VS through and through :D

Yeah trend follower is quite a good term to describe his current songs...after noticing his style in thamarai poovukkum from pasumponn and athrai thingal...he has gone from traditional instrumentation to a mix of keyboard...more of a commercial MD with a eye for classical music i should say :D

>>>>>
Bhradwaj also has nothing good to say about the current crop.
<<<<<

Gaaawd !! This is the height !!!!! Bhardwaj uncle talking about others...kali kAlam. vEra enna solla.

IMO, trendsetters in TFM are ...

1. G Ramanatha iyer
2. MSV
3. Raja
4. Arr

everybody else have followed the trend of their time. They haven't taken TFM to the next level like these guys did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vijayr

Hulkster, perhaps you dont know, I have been a strong vocal supporter of VS's melodies here in DF starting from the late 90s. But lets call a spade a spade. He has always been a trend follower, not a trendsetter by any stretch of the imagination.

---

:exactly:

personally I'd rate VS, BW, HJ, KR, YSR more or less the same; there have had their moments of sparks.
and that is why I am :frightened: when VS makes a remark about the others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shankar

Gaaawd !! This is the height !!!!! Bhardwaj uncle talking about others...kali kAlam. vEra enna solla.

---

yes shankar. BW was the one who gave the kaalam kalikaalam aagippOchchudaa
computer kadavulaaga maarippOchchudaa
:D