thiruvasakam in symphony

Thanks tmrrmt!
I am a subscriber, but i forgot the password! he he he he!
However after reading this I m happy that I am not a patient!
Having said that, it is better to suffer from Musical Hallucinations of IR songs!! ;-) :wink:

where can one get TiS in UK ? please guide

Contact sundardhana@aol.com in UK for TbI
Thanks.
YIA!

Srikanth defending TiS in Dhool forum where there are some criticisms like `this doesn't have rich orchestration like a typical symphony' and `Raja sings off-key at many places - should've used other singers' etc.

Please read on as this is kind of educating:

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Thiruvasagam is a massive subject and Western Classical /Oratorio is another massive subject. The composer who tries to merge both the subjects is expected to know at least 80% of both the subjects. I need not vouch for Ilayaraja’s knowledge in both the areas.

In order to review such works the reviewer should have considerable knowledge on both the subjects. I have not come across anyone yet who knows the grammar of an Oratorio and Thiruvasagam together. What I mean is the reviewer’s knowledge should be more than what “Google” search offers. I feel this is essential in order to understand this genre of music.

In the world of Amateur reviewers and Bloggers, I see this. Play the CD and listen to all 6 tracks and start writing a review, “song-A” has mesmerizing counter points all over the track. I bet from the technical side, only a minority would really know about a counter point. There will be just a handful who really understands counter points placed between Thiruvasagam verses.

The next comment, The pitch and landing problems during the rendering. “Many have commented verses are off key in few places and bothering”, I find this to be totally superficial. This is what Ilayaraja has been singing in the movies. This is a known fact that he goes off-key on various occasions in film songs. Nothing new, we need to remember this is not a song, This is a verse so I really do not know if this would fit into the grammar of Carnatic music while rendering.
Yes! I hear "Picth is important in any kind of music" Frankly, this issue does not write off the entire effort. If you don’t agree with me, you should be ready to write of all the songs sung by him in the past.

Crossover or not? How many really know what crossover is all about? Or I would rephrase, what is crossover music? From what little I know - If you remove the lead vocals, this would be a top class western classical work and if you remove the backgrounds scores this would be a Thiruvasagam rendering. Nothing would change; The scores blends well in most “points” when mixed, frankly the blending and negotiations seemed seamless in most places. Why does it blend? Harmonies, Harmonies blend both the forms perfectly and in fact I was amazed to find we can do such things in harmony construction. When a new genre is born there would be confusion that could draw criticism due to lack of knowledge.

Tamilians have been exposed to Ilayaraja’s style of western classical arrangement for 2 decades now. Hence most would not hesitate to second-guess or compare musical parts from his earlier movie tracks. This just shows the enormous following Raja has in film music genre. But think about a westerner who has not heard his work before, he/she would find it unique and talk about this, after all this can encourage more composers to work on this new genre.

Considering all these factors, as I mentioned my Blog http://srikanthd.blogspot.com earlier, Thiruvasagam Oratorio by Illayaraja should NOT be reviewed or compared with any kind of film music. This is different and this needs proper mood to listen. The finer points in music needs to be understood as a whole package, this takes time, time in the sense a calendar not a stopwatch. Bottom line as a whole package - this effort is unique and an experiment that will open a new genre for composers. , a good start.

The only issue I can question at this point of time is producers missing out or ignoring NRI contributions. When corporate sponsors deserves logo for their contributions, I feel NRI deserves an acknowledgement. Most NRI’s in USA know that Mr. Shankar Kumar, Mr.Sridhar Seetharaman and their team of IR fans worked hard to get the funds. Please remember that many contributed from their personal savings just for the passion they have for IR’s music. I like to ask Rev. Jegath, why NRI contributions were never mentioned anywhere?

Cheers.
_________________
Sriks
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//unquote//

app_engine

I dont know if Dr Shankar Kumar or Sridhar Seetharaman is really looking for their name in the back of the cover. It is a team work and they put "TIS-USA" in the back of the cover. I think itis more than enough. What would have been upset for them is to get a song that doesnt meet the expectatino and in that aspect I am sure all who contributed are "more than" happy.

I AM 100% SURE THAT Dr Shankar, Sridhar Seetharama, Ananth Govind and many others who contributed to this are directly or indirectly in maestro's hear/mind. That itself is enough. To my even if I talk to these great people, I get the feeling that I talk to Maestro. Such a diving feeling that you get when you talk to these people. So in a way, they are all "gifted" to have contributed to this task. I joined much later to this effort so I really am missing the finer opportunities, but nevertheless, I will do whatever I can from my contribution for both TIS and any other project that IR comes with (not only IR, but in general any such historical effort, after all it is what Fr Jegath wanted to do, but he wanted to hit big in his first attempt, so IR, so TIS!)

In one way these blogs do popularize the album. So i am happy that people are talking about these.

Quote:

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Most NRI’s in USA know that Mr. Shankar Kumar, Mr.Sridhar Seetharaman and their team of IR fans worked hard to get the funds. Please remember that many contributed from their personal savings just for the passion they have for IR’s music. I like to ask Rev. Jegath, why NRI contributions were never mentioned anywhere?

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Very apt !! Never once did I hear, read or see these hard working guys being mentioned for their extra-ordinary & ginormous efforts. Atleast they should have been honored during the release in Madras. All it would have taken is 2 minutes.

Normal Man,

when TISK et al are quite happy with the 'recognition' 'reward' they received, why are you bothered by the lack of it?

All these talk of lack of recognition seems to go counter to the spirit of the project.

As njv said, the album says TiS-USA. what more is needed? The individual names of all the NRIs? If so how about me and other Eelam Tamils who contributed? Create another category for NREs?

All this talk is 'sinna thanam' nothing more.

NOM

Besides where do you see Fr. Jegath's face or name on the cover?

"Crossover or not? How many really know what crossover is all about? Or I would rephrase, what is crossover music? From what little I know - If you remove the lead vocals, this would be a top class western classical work and if you remove the backgrounds scores this would be a Thiruvasagam rendering. Nothing would change; The scores blends well in most “points” when mixed, frankly the blending and negotiations seemed seamless in most places. Why does it blend? Harmonies, Harmonies blend both the forms perfectly and in fact I was amazed to find we can do such things in harmony construction."

That's the best part I liked in Srikanth's posting...That's the unique strength of Raja - to provide high class classicals of east & west together and still maintain them in the possible pure form...and they'll blend so harmoniously together...

multinamatheyan --> definitelty not sinathamam to me considering the fact how much of energy (time + money + insults ) these guys (esp. Dr and Sridhar) had to spend and face. Dude these guys will not ask or shout for recognition. It has to be given to them. I'm not asking to put their names on the CD covers. All I would have expected is during the release, calling these 2 on the stage and recognizing them. It would not have taken more than 2 mins.

Wait before you jump to conclusions. I'm not de-riding the spirit of the album and its aftermath. I'm a firm believer of the fact that "recognition at the right time, at the right place, in the right way". As time goes by the efforts of these guys will go away from the record. Give me one clipping from the press, where these guys names have been mentioned? Just a lot of aathangam …. Nothing more …. Nothing less.

:clap: :thumbsup:

"Thiruvasagam" thread is the hottest thread, now.

It beats the previous hottest thread by no. of views

"Chandramuki vs Mumbai Express"

Thiruvasagam : 37776 views
CM vs MX : 37367 views


:clap: :thumbsup:

This is the power of IR and IR fans
:lol:

Normal Man,

I agree with you regarding the effort put in by TISK et al. I have the utmost respect for them in that regard.

As far as calling them on the stage, I believe Dr. Sankar Kumar was in USA while the release function was in Chennai. When the release was held in USA, Dr. et al was on stage with Fr. et al.

I think TISK should clear the air about all thse accusations. I feel it is being directed at Fr. Jegath and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Some of us who had ordered the special edition package did not receive the DVD since they went out of stock. There was a message in the package that the DVD would be sent out on July 8th. I was wondering if there is any update on this.

Thank you,
Murali

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NormalMan

Wait before you jump to conclusions.

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All right guys... no is doing anything to spoil TIS. Normal man want them to be on stage and it is a valid thing. They did that in Dallas function. I believe Dr Shankar was on the stage and was driving the show. As far as Sridhar goes, I think he is trying to be behind the stage for whatever reason. He is the one who started the whole thread and now he is quite. I will ask him to join us again. Since there was no official release near NJ, he is not on the spotlight, but nevertheless we WILL have a grand success function in NJ soon and he will the man of the match!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...music&n=507846

e-bay mattumalla, amazon.com'ilum namma debauchari uLLAr...Hindu'il search paNNumbOthu, idhu dhAn top'pil varudhungO...

Lot of people's will, help, interest and enthusiasm is behind the success of this project. I agree with NormalMan that recognition does motivate one unless we are above those feelings. Lot of things have gone wrong in this project and done unprofessionally.

Having said that, it is quite easy to point mistakes from being outside the circle. The organizers might have had their issues as well. Let us keep all the bitter feelings aside and learn from this project. Discussing those IS OF COURSE in the interest of future projects provided everyone takes in the right spirit. Moving forward, we can make sure that such things do not recur.

I want to thank each and everyone who have expressed their views in this matter of 'being on the stage'.

Fr. Jegath has always been very understanding to our cause and has not failed to recognize us at every stage to his ability and I was given the center stage in Dallas at FeTNA conference along with Mr. Socrates and Mr. Paul Pandian and similarly he has not failed to recognize TiS USA at every function he spoke. As noted, Venkat Bala was honored in Boston.
TiSUSA has been mentioned in the backcover of the CD box in the US editions.
We did this for our love for Tamil, TiS, IIR but finally ended up doing for the sincerity of Fr! That's the truth. And we are happy with what we did.
Thanks and let us end it here.
Thanks again to you all!
YIA!!

aah...adhu Eppidi TISK?

Neenga ungaLukku mattum sonneenga. What about Sridhar? Until he comes and join us we will continue :)

summa ulalaakkaachikki :D

Please leave Sridhar alone!
But for him, i wouldn't have been here.
He started this and probably will end this once we finish all those unfinished tasks!
He is a great soul and give him his peace!
YIA!!
Yes... yellaam iraivan aruL!

p.s. 'pEsaama indha CD-kku YIA-nnu pEru vechchirukkalaam!!'

TISK

YIAnna Yellaam Iraivan Arulnnu iththananaal theriyala. Edho neenga konjam kushiyaagi rajni stylela YIA sonneengannu nenechchaen.

LOL

Quote:

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But for him, i wouldn't have been here.

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TISK,

Indha sentence edho avara pugazhuradhukku sonna maadhiri theriyalayE ;). Does Sridhar know about this statement? Idha padikkaradhukkaavadhu avar indha thread-kku vandhu engaLOda sandaiyila kalandhukkanum :D

Neenga sonna naanga vitturuvOmaa, verum vaaikki aval kidachchirukku, naanga mellaama iruppOmaa.

NNN (Narayana Narayana Narayana)

Guys - can anyone staying in New York get hold of the contact details of the following music critic/reviewer ? :

Mr.ALLAN KOZINN, who is a bigtime classical music reviewer

My take on the fourth piece sung by IR - leaving aside the 20 minutes of transcendental magic, which is the second piece, I think, this piece carries with heavy emotions - while he starts the song in a high pitch, the link between the initial singing and the vocal + string chorus that follows is something like linking astronomy with biology!

I think conceptually, IR first composed for the verses of this fourth piece and then composed the vocal orchestral piece and then linked the two! but only a supreme genius can do such linkings! I don't know if others also felt this way

tmrrmt, I think you are referring to Umbarkatkarasaey only. Its the most under-appreciated song in the album, but very heavily emotional. Be it the Hamsanandhi stanza (4th?) and then the motherly paal ninaidhottum and then the awesome chorus before the climax para. The other theme chorus after the 1st stanza is also haunting, which is repeated 2 or 3 times.

tmrrmt

Please check your PM.

Thanks

multinamatheyan - just check your mail

I WAS actually there on the innaugaral function of thiruvasagam in symphony oratorio.i was kinda stunned when i heard the opening song.it was terrific.esspecially some ofd the chorus works and violins.it was really grand.again raja has proved tyhat he is a musical genious and lets see if people can atleast now realise it.also kudos to jegath casper who produced it.think the album is already doing great.lets encourage raja to give us more such works by making this album a sucess.can anybody tell me where was spb on the innaugral function?y he didnt attend the function?was he not invited?

HEre is the feedback I received from hardcore WCM listeners after I posted about TiS in a music discussion forum on the web

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"I thought I'd see if I could find a free listen to your music somewhere. Here's the link, for everyone to enjoy:

http://www.raaja.com/index2.html

Click on all 6 links under the title "Thiruvasagam" for minute-long excerpts. You'll find the music to be a little like Ravi Shankar's Concerto for Sitar and Orchestra, except a little more minimalist. Then there's the inclusion of one of those earnest-sounding Broadway blockbuster voices in the second track. That's irritating.

My favorite part of the webpage is this gem:

The Raaja FAN CLUB

• "The (innumerable) fans, their sites and clubs should come under one umbrella" -- Ilaiyaraaja [the composer]. Click here to make his wish a reality.

Anyway, sorry, this kind of crossover ain't my type of music.

Now, Ilaiyaraaja meets Stockhausen --THAT'S my kind of crossover...
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What do you guys think ?

I am not sure how much importance you can give these guys...be it a positive/negative review, we should give some weightage based on the credentials of the guy who's reviewing it.

Does anyone know the contact details of Zubin Mehta (famous conductor of the Israeli Philharmoic Orchestra) ? the intent is to send a copy of TbI for him to review.

Yesterday someone said that even "New" songs are better than TIS. I just dont know how to react to these kind of comments. So my take is ignore all these review. If you like it, enjoy it.

Shankar/njv,

Just ignore these guys.....IR couldn't have said it better.....

"EDHU KUPPAINNU KOZHIYA PORUTHU IRKKU......" :lol:
Cheers
Bala.

njv,

Best way to react to such comments is JUST NOT TO REACT. For one to hear, enjoy and feel TiS, one should be gifted and should have some musical knowledge and sense!

Let us move on, thanking God for giving us that sense.

-MJ

vElila pOra Onaana vEtila vitta maadhiri irukku.

We got a negative feedback and we are now saying that we need to ignore. Lets set our priorities straight. One of us has requested for a Hardcore WCM person to review. I am not sure how much they would expect a this kind of classical crossover. Those Hardcore WCM/reviewers probably would have listed to crossovers of different nature, what we have exposed them is an entirely, drastically different crossover (rather I would term it as meeting/rendezvous of classical forms and presentations). We are bound to get such negative reviews only. When our own hard core devotional songs listener would find it difficult to accept this kind of presentation, then think about them. In my humble opinion this album would never get a great review from any hardcore fans/reviewers of one classical form or other at present.

As srikanth said its different form of music.

People of different ears would tune themselves to appreciate such a kind of music only when we have a substantial number of such albums released and a majority of them are great. Once people accept that then they may come to the past and would be able to accept/appreciate and even rave about TiS. We all know that TiS is perhaps the first of its kind that tried to reach a wider audience.

Let me end with this note:
We are like "kuraLi viththai kaaran" we ought to pick the "Onaan" of fence and allow it to crawl on us. It might be difficult for us in the initial stages after that we would get used to it and even the Onaan would appreciate the better medium for crawling than the fence :)

NOM. AIMHO.

tmrrmt, if you are going to ask for reviews you need to provide full samples man, not 1-minute clips. And I believe the right kind of person to review this would be someone of (South)Indian origin who has knowledge of both ICM/WCM and preferably some Tamil knowledge as well. Someone like say V.S. Narasimhan(or other members of the Madras String quartet) would be able to do some kind of justice, atleast to the musical portions if not the literary aspects. For the westerners the tunes would sound quite weird.

Appreciation of any novel attempt requires `OPEN' mind, which is quite rare in the world. (Many claim to have that but not in reality, including most of us...I claim to enjoy food items from varied countries but can never give lasagna or pizza the same marks as rice with murungakkAi sAmbar + kizhangu masAl + elumichchai ooRugAi...and definitely will take time to enjoy pizza immersed in sambAr, even if it is from annapoornA Gowri shankar):-)

This `crossover' attempt to orchestrate for ancient Thamizh literature is entirely new and the best capable living person has started that! It needs to be really pushed to the masses (also through media like broadcast/ telecast and other casts and not just through sale of the album)...and they will develop a taste in due course...which will encourage more such works to come up in the future, thus making more people to show interest in the literature. I'm 100% sure more people have talked about the book in the last one month than I've ever seen in the last 30 years or so...

Remember Raja raised the standards of an AVERAGE movie song listener (to look for ragAs, interludes, instrumental part etc.) which took a while. It didn't happen with annakkiLi but gradually by the time he was doing sigappu rOjAkkaL, nizhalgaL and nenjaththai kiLLAthE...Similarly, TiS should be considered as a beginning for many more great things to come...What about ThirukkuRaL next? (Probably among the least religious ancient works with high morals...)

I read somewhere that Bharadwaj is inspired to do similar work for another literature...as more people jump in, there'll be more sponsors / listeners, which I feel is good for Thamizh...mellaththamizhini malarum:-)

Here are some reviews @ amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cus...g=UTF8&s=music

Nice article on IR and TIS...
http://www.eenadu.net/ncineshow.asp?qry=cinefront1

Maestro says "Now a days, those 30 second ad jingles sound better than film songs..."

"Evvaraina ikkada eenadu article'ni TRANSLATE chesi chepputhara??"

Can any telugu folks translate the eenadu article and post it??

Thanks