Comments on Outlook article & other TiS criticisms

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Originally Posted by vijayr

what do the above statements of kr prove? Nothing. Its just his opinion, a prejudiced one and little else. Of course for harcore IR fan(atic)s it would be thiruvasagam or "jalra"vasagam :-)

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Vijay,
I totally agree that its his opinion which also happens to concur with mine. Aren't forums all about sharing opinions? I didn't mean to deride or abuse anyone by applauding kr.
That said, i'm not anti-ARR and i do like his music. I don't believe that he ia all hype and no substance. My fav ARR's Hindi work is Tehzeeb, which didn't exactly set the cash registers ringing (i think). Let the producers worry about commercial success, i'll listen to what i like, be it Tehzeeb, Thiruvasagam or whatever. What i made out from kr's posts were that he (and i) don't hold # of hits or other commercially and popularly measured yardsticks as the primary determinant when forming opinions about music. I don't look over my shoulder to see if someone else likes what i like and then decide to go ahead and shout to the world that i like 'a' particular piece of music. If i like it, i like it and if the whole of India also likes it, its a bonus and if i'm alone, so be it, no loss there.

And when you talked about kr's opinion being prejudiced, that can be said of anyone from your camp too, can't it? :)
For example, someone had questioned IR's motives on making TIO and another said it was recycled stuff etc.......

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Originally Posted by vijayr

If his "Nayagan" was really a rage up north( a false claim, no one in North cares much about a Tamil film) then IR's Nayagan songs or his dubbed Anjali songs should have been a big hit in Mumbai. But they were'nt.

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Vijay
1. thumburu was just responding to the claim that MR was an unknown quantity in the North
2. I have seen people in Mumbai and Delhi refer to Nayagan and Anjali (to a little extent) as great works by Mani Sir. Yes, they might not have been rages during the times, but even a little recognition is an acheivement in the intolerant north :)

@ Thumburu, MR's thalpathy was dubbed too as Dalpathi before roja but he was certainly not a rage. Consider this WRT to hype factor Kr was claiming. He wasn't launched by subhash ghai to benefit from the director's hype!


@Alwarpet andavan, orey ragathula irukara pattellam vithayasama illaya sir? Why does it have to sound so obvious to seempoovey, appadi irukira verai recycle than. I don't want to argue further if you don't accept. Btw, if he recycles sempoove for any of his film projects I won't care to mention.

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Originally Posted by Jacky

@Alwarpet andavan, orey ragathula irukara pattellam vithayasama illaya sir? Why does it have to sound so obvious to seempoovey, appadi irukira verai recycle than. I don't want to argue further if you don't accept. Btw, if he recycles sempoove for any of his film projects I won't care to mention.

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Whether i accept what you said or not, please accept the fact that ALL MD's including ARR have used the same Raaga in more than one song. Oru Indian song compose pannina, invariably it will fall into one or more existing Raagas. To confuse that with recycling is what i objected to. Just to venerate one composer, please do not degrade another or his work (TIO, of all the works!) baselessly. Some IR fans have done it too (i have done it too but i'll try not to do it, going forward), and i don't subscribe to that view. However, two wrongs don't make a right.

Not a baseless argument sir.
Even in sudhadhanyasi sempoove is different from Manjolai kilithano - kizhakey pogum rail. In this case it's more of a recycle than a variant.
I'm not going out of the way degrade IR, infact my first post was quite after a pile was built.

orey ragathula irukara pattellam vithayasama illaya sir? - irukkum, but there are also similarities and that is how a music layman like me is able to idntify raagas by pattern matching and not strictly by swaras. In the case u have cited, the similarity is only in the raga used and definitely not a recycle.
Again, the claim that MR was recognized even before roja is by my personal experience , observation at Mumbai. Even before roja, his Agni was remade as Vansh which was a tepid hit. The reach of a movie need not be ONLY thru songs. They dubbed nayagan as Velunaygan and released it even after the remake Dayavan bombed at BO. That showed the awe Bollywood had for MR.Roja was only ARR's ticket to north and for Mani it reiterated his position as an ace director. If many of u can recollect, around 1990, many southies like dir priyadharshan, revathy, ramgopal verma[I saw the Hindi dubbed version of Shiva which was a hit there] , nagarjuna, venkatesh made a beeline to bollywood and how many succeeded is history

The time was ripe IR was just making good in bollywood with his dubbed movies MR was creating waves over there. I still remember 'Appu raja' songs being played over and again in many shops in delhi during a visit to my uncles place. 'yeh to bana apna' and 'Raaja naam mera' were big hits. This was late eighties and early nineties. around this time only IR was known as a big MD from South just about to conquer the nation with his music. around this time only Anand milind lifted umpteen songs of Raja and making him more famous. There was a cover story about Raja in FilmFare...and his tunes being lifted left and right, they questioned why not Raja himself get into bollywood But alas! the great divide happened between MR-IR and ARR took over from where IR left....

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Originally Posted by rajasaranam

The time was ripe IR was just making good in bollywood with his dubbed movies MR was creating waves over there. I still remember 'Appu raja' songs being played over and again in many shops in delhi during a visit to my uncles place. 'yeh to bana apna' and 'Raaja naam mera' were big hits. This was late eighties and early nineties. around this time only IR was known as a big MD from South just about to conquer the nation with his music. around this time only Anand milind lifted umpteen songs of Raja and making him more famous. There was a cover story about Raja in FilmFare...and his tunes being lifted left and right, they questioned why not Raja himself get into bollywood But alas! the great divide happened between MR-IR and ARR took over from where IR left....

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anu malik copied many tunes of raja and got credits.in virasat he lifted directly and said thats his tune.rediculous :twisted: :evil:

vijayr:

Just like you were responding to my posting, I was responding to an IR-insulting post by alias.

Listen, for you ARR staying for 13 years might be a reflector of his quality. My opinions are different. (People like Karuananidhi, MGR, Jayalalitha, Indira Gandhi have had long lasting fan following - doesnt mean that they are necessarily quality politicians or leaders or even the best alternatives out there. They were just the most popular - they had the most awareness - they were most promoted etc.)

Where you and I differ is that you try to immediately brand those opinions that does not agree with yours as fanatical or "jalra"vasagam. Unlike your emotional outbursts, I am more analytical and rational and I see the comparison between IR and ARR so differently than yours.

As alwarpet andavan stated it really doesnt matter or influence my buying behavior what you or anyone else think. Why do you have to brand someone else's opinion as inferior to others. You state your opinion. I'll state mine. They both are just that - opinions based on our demographics, pyschographics - attitudes, beliefs, influences etc. There is no right or wrong here - Mine is not superior to yours or vice versa.

I hope you can have tolerance to another's opinion which does not agree with yours without such emotional outbursts.

Maddy, obviously we cannot expect any respect from IR fans as you said except njv and aa. That clearly show how these guys are singing their lost glory.

And coming to nilavupriyan, that he proved class apart from Agni Nat(even thought u do not think it is a class album), Hey Ram (man what a choice) a poor album except asha song., nizhagal ( i agree but in his golden period), SB (that is a class I agree and i mentioned it), many mohan (sorry not many mohan but some mohan albums like Udaya Githam,Mouna Ragam.Mohan-Soundarajan combo) and TIS (i dont know whether this is a quality which we are talking). I never said IR is without class else I would have said all his albums are crap but there are pre rahman period albums but not after post.

kr, please look into my previous post. I have grown with IR music but do not want to be in league who still says IR is ruling and best when ARR is there.

Rajasarnam, adhu eppadi.. Appu Raja songs were hit in Hindi... Dude, it is not hit , it was an average album in Hindi and IR did not open doors for ARR. It was ARR who open doors for others. If IR composed his songs in Hindi, it was dud. But when someone modified it with north flavour, it was hit. So the credit does not go to IR but to those MD who composed it. If that was the case, Mahadev would have been superhit with songs like Enga Oru pattukaran and other hits of IR (which were remade in Hindi by IR himself). It clearly shows IR lacked and he was fit only for south.

kr, I have no way insulted IR in any of my post unlike u IR fans. So stop blaming me.