Suththa thamizhachi thaamarai

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Originally Posted by app_engine

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

and is currently a cabinet minister

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அப்படிப்பட்ட கொலை பாதகங்கள் செய்வது தானே இலங்கையில் ஆட்சியாளர் ஆவதற்கான அடிப்படைத்தகுதி?

இதிலென்ன வியப்பிருக்கிறது?

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I mean to point out to ppl quoting hindu, Ram and other reports saying LTTE did this or that, one thing must be understood - no one was/is innocent as a lamb in Srilanka . LTTE, defectors, other armed leaders who contributed zilch but had ambitions of power, SLA, SL govt, SL opposition, JVP, Buddhist monks (!!!) communists of SL, Congress of our shameful country, Gen Sundarji, J.N.Dixit, The erstwhile PM of India who made decisions that cost lives and trust sitting thousands of miles away - everyone is the guilty party here. Crying that LTTE alone is the root cause of terror problem is plain bull crap.In this Russian roulette everyone is getting their turn to kick the bucket - Today it is LTTE and prabhakaran - tomorrow God knows who... No one is holier than anyone - everyones hands are filled with the same freakin blood and the media of India, semi informed 'patriotic' indians can spare their crap for India - Pak forums.
In the light of the articles I have read for the past two days, I am seriously suspecting the role of RAW in other regional activities that are nefarious. Though they have not attained the notoreity of ISI, I am pretty sure they must not be too far behind in their share of blood curdling injustices againt humans.

As a side note to Cine Fan.
The kind of cordoning of coast they did to dissuade refugees from SL entering Indian shores, they could have done atleast half that on the gujarat coast to avoid the Mumbai attacks. However they wont - elimination of LTTE and sujugation of Tamils is far more important than preventing jihadis from blowing up Mumbaikars.

JG,

Nice sensible post!

One just feels extreme helplessness :(

Cinefan's post sums up the pan-Indian view and also the view of many even in TN. Is this a question of mere misinformation or that of apathy and indifference fueled by 'patriotism'?

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

One just feels extreme helplessness :(

Cinefan's post sums up the pan-Indian view and also the view of many even in TN. Is this a question of mere misinformation or that of apathy and indifference fueled by 'patriotism'?

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idhuthaan!

patriotism...mannaangatti

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

The kind of cordoning of coast they did to dissuade refugees from SL entering Indian shores, they could have done atleast half that on the gujarat coast to avoid the Mumbai attacks. However they wont - elimination of LTTE and sujugation of Tamils is far more important than preventing jihadis from blowing up Mumbaikars

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Hmm...this is more dramatic than convincing. Mumbai was a complete intelligence failure.

Of course it was one in a string of intelligence failures. Similarly the train blasts in June 2005 in Mumbai, two blasts in Hyderabad in the space of a few months in 2007 add to that Guwhati, Bangalore etc. And we elect back the same government. So whose is the
apathy ? It is very much the public which doesn't seem to care.

I think Cinefan's statement is worded fairly enough. Perhaps he is not that aware of GoSL's methods which are indefensible. But the emphasis of the post was on the 'determination to weed out what is perceived as terror' which is missing in India.

Manmohan Singh talks about Musharaff's empty assurance to Vajpayee that there will be no activities in Pak soil that further the effort to cause terror in India.

Why are we pussyfooting when we 'know' camps exist in Pakistan ?
Is it only the nuclear threat or somthing more ? India-US getting involved in Pak will get all the sovereignty-defendants and anti-imperialists worked up. But what is the probability that Pakistan will do anything on its own. Very low. (I am glad that they are finally giving the Taliban the attention they deserve.) On the other hand, what is the probability that in 2009 there will be an huge attack on another major Indian city and out PM will say "we will weed out terrorism" and then newspapers will praise the "city's resilience" for spriging back to life ? The probability is very high, dare I say, 1.

Patriotism is silly. Sari right-u. EllArum innAttin piLLaigaL appidinnu Shivraj Patil ULFA paththi sonna maadhiri sollittu ukkAndhiukkalAmA ? In the meanwhile avan reNdu guNdu vaippAn. adhula saaguradhu 'naatin piLLaigaL' illaiyA ?

PR,
Ok, the Govt is spineless and we are a soft target and all. no two ways about it. And you are shocked about people's apathy when it comes to voting back to power the Govt that doesn't take the security of its citizens seriously. Curious because, when Gujarat overwhelmingly elects Modi or when people give a strong mandate in Kandhamal, the same concern is not shown.
Apathy ku eduthukkaatu neraya irukku (nobody is holier than thou and i'm very much guilty of inaction, inertia etc), not just terror and reactions to it.


"Camps" a pottu thallitta "terrorism" ozhinjiduma? Pottu thallakkoodadhu nu vaadhame naan pannala, please don't get me wrong.

Isn't it gross for you to spot ONLY the "determination to weed out what is perceived as terrorism"? And why are we limiting the definition of terrorism here? seri, neenga ellathukkum anti-imperialist, bleeding hearts nu convenient a muthirai kuthiduveenga ("nee kuthaliya" nu kekkalaam :lol: ). And adhu enna India-US? Ennamo U.S ku innaikku dhaan Pakistan terror pathiyum anga nadakkuradhu pathiyum therinja madhiri, and avinga act panna ready-a irukkara madhiriyum, "anti-imperialist" imsai naala dhaan ithana varushama edhuvum seyyama irukkara madhiri solreenga? Like they even care! Like all countries, they operate on terms and priorities of strategic importance to them, agreed (it so happens that often its to the detriment of others). However, the tone given by many is as though U.S is "surprised", "shocked", "didn't see this coming" etc... This is more perplexing because from an Indian point of view, China-va thittuvom aana U.S a onnume solla maattom.

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

when Gujarat overwhelmingly elects Modi or when people give a strong mandate in Kandhamal, the same concern is not shown.

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Gujarat Yes. The condemnation of Modi should have been stronger. That he is using his election victory as a ticket-to-getting-away is indeed quite annoying.
But in Orissa I thought BJD got reelected because it chose to dump BJP this time. Of course this was more about seat-sharing than koLgai. Anyway...

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

"Camps" a pottu thallitta "terrorism" ozhinjiduma? Pottu thallakkoodadhu nu vaadhame naan pannala, please don't get me wrong.

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I agree. End of camps is not end of terror. There will be discontent, fueled for selfish reasons by warlords and nations (like US- no denying that either).

But camps irukku-nu therinjadhukkuppuramum oNNum seyyAma ukkAndhirukkuradhu yEn ? That's my question. And I don't think 'Nuclear Weapons' is the only reason stopping us. I don't think India has made the most out of its improved Indo-US relation to put pressure on Pakistan. naan innum niraiya edhirpAkkurEn.

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

Isn't it gross for you to spot ONLY the "determination to weed out what is perceived as terrorism"?

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Why do you say I spot only this ? btw I didn't get who is the "you" here. Me or enga group-u (!). Assuming it is the former I think I have always been fairly critical of GoSL here and elsewhere.
Off the Hub I have been aggressively achieving proselytization targets in terms of people who only see LTTE as Rajiv killers. Even now I have mentioned GoSL's clusrter bombing methods are indefensible. So I don't get your "ONLY".

My statement was just giving the devil - quite literally - its due.

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

seri, neenga ellathukkum anti-imperialist, bleeding hearts nu convenient a muthirai kuthiduveenga

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Yeah I was being intentionally polemical there. :-) But imagine the scenario where India does take it upon itself to attack the terror camps in West Punjab. The first protest slogans will come from the we-hate-America leftists. I have no doubt about that.

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

And adhu enna India-US?

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Who else will ? Afghanistan ? Iran ? Who else is concerned ? India is the short term victim and US is ...well the US.

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Ennamo U.S ku innaikku dhaan Pakistan terror pathiyum anga nadakkuradhu pathiyum therinja madhiri, and avinga act panna ready-a irukkara madhiriyum, "anti-imperialist" imsai naala dhaan ithana varushama edhuvum seyyama irukkara madhiri solreenga?

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Ok I should have worded it better. Here is what I was trying to say.
After Afghanistana and Iraq - US indeed reluctant in gettings its hair mussed in one more war. They care significantly less than India because they have their borders secured and they 'gain' little by invading Pakistan. On the other hand India will continue to suffer till Pakistan is in order. And either directly or indirectly things need to get done. That 'urge' is completely missing in the Indian intelligensia.

Now if India and US did anything in Pak. the anti-imperialists will descend on them. But as camps flourish and attacks happen the anti-imperialists will light candles and write about how imperialism caused all this in the first place. Which IMO misses the point of what needs to be done now.

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Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

This is more perplexing because from an Indian point of view, China-va thittuvom aana U.S a onnume solla maattom.

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Ippo ellAm China-va kooda oNNum solluradhu illai. vAikkA thagaraaru mild-A pOikittu irukku. In my reading India is presently in an advantageous position vis-a-vis US and China. Relationship with both are getting better. We are not exactly playing one against the other or anything like that but surely making the most of attention of both. idhai ippidiyE maindain paNNa mudiyumA 'ngradhu dhaan theriyalai.

And by the way I was focusing the emphasis on Cinefan's statement about the determination India lacks. I think everyone directly interpreted it as his approval of GoSL's methods and the focus of the discussion moved away. It is for Cinefan to say if I did understand his statement correctly or not.

CR, internal security-kku pinna enna dhaan panrainga indha govt??? seri, u say, root of the problem is "situation of muslims" in the country........yaarupa indha naatta 60yrs-a rule pannittu irukkanga?? wat did pro-muslim leaders like mulayam, lalu, karunanidhi do to uplift their lives??

to blame everything on hindu factions and conevniently sit down and say "they are the root cause for everything" is not happening.......talk to any north indian hindu particularly from UP/Bihar, he will tell u stories of muslim arrogance and atrocities........can u deny hindus were never affected in riots/issues? i'm not justifying these riots and demolitions, but its just that each faction have a case for their violence......just to fingerpoint at hindu factions and asking govts to tolerate terror just bcos we have "hindus who did mistakes"nnu solluradhu aavradhilla.....

also, here PR just picked up the "removing terror" part from cinefan's post........adhula enna thappu?? even i agree to it 100%........he didnt agree on GOSL praise by cinefan......

even in bengal - even after "communist organised terror" in nandigram - people voted for Cong-TC alliance because of combo and not to punish the "killer" leftists of this country......adha yen ketkala yaarum?