:confused2: What I meant was - Discussions about existance and non-existance of the entity called God (As a power / force) and not about what the religious scriptures explain as God.
Idha purinjikka avLo kashtamaa? :roll:
:confused2: What I meant was - Discussions about existance and non-existance of the entity called God (As a power / force) and not about what the religious scriptures explain as God.
Idha purinjikka avLo kashtamaa? :roll:
Hi Sathya, some random links, ensoi :)
http://www.facebook.com/IndianAtheists
http://dharumi.blogspot.in/2012/07/577.html - Superb jokes on Theism
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html -> Is There a God? Does God exist? Here are six straight-forward reasons to believe that God is really there.
All taken from this thread -> http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthrea...l=1#post891444
Also, if ppl here are interested, I would like to post about ur grouse - Kamal not neetral... My stand is, he is very much...
Welcome Welcome, eppadi ellaarayum koottiyaandhEn paartheeyaLaa :)
Sure, please post, weekend padichittu discuss paNrEn
நெம்பநாளா வண்டி சர்வீஸ் விடலை, என் தப்புத்தான் :( எல்லா மக்கள்ஸுக்கும் மிக்கமிக்க நன்றி :) இனி சரியா ஓட்டுறேன்
அளவா வண்டி ஓட்ட சொன்ன ஜோ & nov, க்கு பெசல் நன்றி!
Yeah yeah, past is past, enga rest edukkaNumO anga eduththu appuram Ottunga. romba nEram non-stoppaa Ottunaa fatigue aayirum
<<End Dig>> Catch u all tomorrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-glove
Ha ha ha! Oh yeah, got that he's being flippant but elaborated further as I wasn't sure if he basically agreed with the characterization Kamal's films as spiritual/Hindu. I've put forth this argument earlier too, but there are not many takers. Personally I think the debates on how anti-Hindu/brahmin Kamal is are tiresome. To a lot of fans, he's a Gandhian, a Periyarist and everything else in between that's automatically supposed to be a good ideology; to detractors, he's a thoughtless atheist putting forth his views just to offend others, sides with anti-Hindu forces and so on. இரண்டு பக்கமும் பெரும்பாலும் ரொம்ப மிகையான கருத்துக்களையே முன்வைக்கறாங்க. It's high time he (as a filmmaker) got recognized for what he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
More than 10 pages,uff!
Post 826 from P_R :clap:
No tayame but ippodhaikku 1 point: B(K),my post was only about countering you on your perspective tilted extremely to the right comment.Can't understand what made you think people like me are a greater problem?????
This discussion,I have not touched on Kamal's ideologies,perspective etc etc etc.Ennoda previous stand therindhu,enna refer pannengala???If yes,even then please to explain what is so extremist about my views?
//sakala... welcome..welcome... :)
Carlin-ku cut out, mathavellam get out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)
Louis CK, don't like his youtube output. Fan of his TV show. 2nd Season has gone on to another level.
One thing is if we go beyond mere symbolism and the need for explciit "damning of my opponent or the opposite side", is that it is implicit that criticism of certain aspects of "hinduism" contains same damnation of corresponding aspects in other religions. Namakku thEvai enlightenmentnA adhai apdiyE eduthukkalAm. Note the discomfort of muslim theist bros and sisters even in this thread about his views on religion although he hasn't explicitly damned "islam" as much as "hinduism". Equa already covered this point - and I am not pointing to specifics either. Indha threadleye irukku thEdi pArunga. The beauty is he seems to impact everyone at the level they engage. SuperficialA anti-hindu-nu engage paNNA, he hits hard at your beliefs. IdhaiyE indhu munnAni mAdhiri aNuginA "ivan adoi madiyila kai vekkuRAndA" type of reaction is inevitable. That is, he is shaking the foundation of all that we stand for, dangerous phlow, apdinnu thONum. And I have some examples of deep thinking islam counterparts of sathya who realise that what he hits out at "Hinduism" is not something to feel gleeful about. They realise the very same criticism is also adi madi kai vechings for them and their beliefs and have the exact same reaction as sathya and cinefan. Dangerous phlow, this kamalagaasan. Really, the problem only comes when you take a "my group" vs "other group" approach - in which case the plane at which you are engaging is different from the plane at which it is intended.
Naan enna sonnen ippo???????????I presume my name is being referred to on the basis of my comments 3 years back after the UPO release and some random subsequent posts on this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
//dig Welcome back Plum-ji & sakala.. have a pleasant stay :p //end dig
//ennappa... ECR resort receptionist yarayachum correct pannitteengalaa??Quote:
Originally Posted by raajarasigan
enakku nemba pudicha topicla discussion pOittu irukku...
mutthu mutthaa eludhirukkaanganu theriyudhu... aana neraya vaarthai/mozhi puriyala... kamal threadla irukkom... front benchers'kum edho puriyanum, elite'kum puriyara madhiri konjam layering use pannugna pls...
nee etthinaanglaas varikum padchirkka?? appo unakku vaeramaadhiridhaan sollonum..
apdi illa.. thirumbavum pOiduvAngaLonnu thAn....Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSword
PR
I don't quite "feel" the caste identity is identical and implies/evokes the same things/reactions within the self, to begin with, that the other identities mentioned here evoke. They may have started as ways of life. What does caste mean *now*, having the baggage it has and causing the effects it has caused? By clinging on to that identity, what are we saying overtly/implicitly?
Get your point but i don't think it's a fair comparison at all (judging on education/exposure/employment being a replacement of juding by caste). It is a lesser evil way to judge. Class discrimination ellaam prachanai dhaan but adhukku apparam varuvom.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
I do think people feel an affinity even now. This generation. Which is why the identity itself must go, discrimination laam eppadiyo ooduruvidum nu thonudhu. I don't share your optimism when you say we have seen a great deal of decoupling. I get how different things are from the past but it is not good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by P_R
AgreeQuote:
Originally Posted by P_R
Yeah, read about this in the Indhu. Vaazhga baaradham :lol2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
WB Sahala
Like SS, Enakkum ithu fav topic thaaan!
P_R's #826 post padicha appuram, ithellaam post paNNanumaannu thONuch! But, irunthaalum, pala nALA sollanumnu nenaichathu! Warning:- Sila points romba pazhasaa irukkalaam, "ithellaam ellaarukkume therinjathu thaane?!" kind!
Christianity, as said by P_R reg hey Raam, Varuvathaai sonnavar vanthathe illai...Quote:
Originally Posted by sathya_1979
Islam, Local, Indian rooted film edukkum bothu Local issues thaane solla mudiyum? Afghan Taliban's araajagangaL & Koran/Bible la lrukkura absurdities solla mudiyumaa? context irukkaathe.
I remember he wrote an article, Urainadai type of Poem in Vikatan long back, that is the eye opener for dumbs like me to tell that there is something called Holy War and how it started. Wiki la poi padicheengannaa mandai suthidum, antha loooooong historical, origins of Islam vs Christan clash pathi, surukkamaa, 3/4 pages la sollirunthaaru. Athellaam frame pottu maattaNum. anybody has it?!? So there, he talks about sins of historic Islam/Christian clashes.
UPO was just a remake but it thrown lots of controversies. Mostly, some irritation among Islam bloggers...
Our Joe has written about some of his dislikings UPO wrt to Islam characters, in his blog -> http://cdjm.blogspot.in/2009/09/blog-post_23.html.
Below is an article about few fellow Islam tamil bloggers got irked with Kamal's stance/dialogs in UPO and went ahead to meet kamal directly, and shot their questions, the meet was arranged via Director Ameer.
விமரிசனத்தை நேருக்கு நேர் நின்று கொண்டு எதிர் கொள்ளும் கமலஹாசன்
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Quote:
கமல்ஹாசனுக்கு நெருக்கமானவரான திரைப்பட இயக்குநர் அமீரிடம் நமது கண்டனத்தைக் கூறி கமல்ஹாசனிடம் தெரிவிக்கக் கூறினோம். அதற்கவர் கமல்ஹாசன் இந்துத்வா சிந்தனை கொண்டவரில்லை. நீங்களே அவரை சந்தித்து விவாதியுங்கள் என்று கூறி கமல்ஹாசனுடன் சந்திப்புக்கு ஏற்பாடு செய்தார் 09.10.2009 அன்று நமக்கு ஒரு மணி நேரத்திற்கும் மேலாக ஒதுக்கித்தந்தார் கமல். வழக்குரைஞர் ஜெய்னுல் ஆபிதீன் மற்றும் ஜி.அத்தேஷுடன் 'முஸ்லிம் சமுதாயத்தின் மீதான ஊடக வன்முறை, உன்னைப் போல் ஒருவன் படம் தந்துள்ள பாதிப்பு'' ஆகியவை குறித்து விரிவாக உரையாற்றினோம். அந்த உரையாடலின் சில பகுதிகள்...
http://dondu.blogspot.in/2009/10/blog-post_19.html
http://dondu.blogspot.in/2009/10/2.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by sathya_1979
Quote:
வெட்னஸ்டே படத்தின் கதாநாயகன் நஸ்ரூதீன் முஸ்லிம் என்பதாலும், ஆரிஃப் என்ற ஒரு நல்ல முஸ்லிம் அதிகாரி காட்டப்படுவதாலும், இந்திப்பட உலகில் இப்படம் முஸ்லிம்களுக்கு எதிரானதாக பார்க்கப்படவில்லை.
நான், ஆரிஃப் என்ற பாத்திரத்தை நல்லவராகக் காட்டுவது மட்டும் போதாது என்று மேலும் பல மாற்றங்களைச் செய்தேன்.
thanks Bala, SS, raajarasigan, this very short hiatus was useful :)
Sure, But also list the favourable things too he has done towards Hindu Religion. As equa said, titling his film with "Anbe Sivam" from Thirumoolar's Thirumanthiram itself is an indirect praise on that religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by venkkiram
So many good songs, Spiritual kind. Maasaru ponne varuga, Abiraami anthaathi in Guna, 2 songs in Dasavatharam, Sriranga song from Mahanathi... Has any film shown the aesthetic beauty like those?
And what about those do-good & say-good hindu characters in his films, which are around him. like the Maamiyaar in Mahaanathi etc. Even Poornam, to some extent. You can see these kind of characters filled and ppl only take up the bad hindu characters in his films.
I don't know how this opinion will be received -> All the Bakthi padams show atheist characters as bad/villain or atleast non believers and finally something "happens" and they are Transformed as Bakthi Maans! Not even one character where Kamal changes them into, or totally converts his ideologies. Everybody, from Poornam viswanathan to Maddy of Anbe Sivam, are just let off as it is. Even the dialog goes like this in Anbe Sivam
Maddy: Enna maathiriyaana design ithu, enna kadavuL ithu, intha maathiriyaana samayathula thaan kadavul irukkaaraangura santhetame varuthu
(and looks at kamal, his mischievous mild laugh!)
Suddenly maddy changes tone :lol: Illa, KadavuL irukkaaru! (does something like, kannathula pottukkurathu :lol : )
He is just he and doesn't "convert" anyone! and all he does is asks some strong kostin which still lies unanswerable by believers.
So, the bottomline is, if you make a list of the things, he, according to you, takes a hit on Hindu, also in parallel run a list of merit things he had / done said about Hindu, either directly or Indirectly. So there he does some sort of Balance!
his title names itself speaks something very deep... edhukku kurippa andha pera choose pannanum..
dhasaavadhaaram... viswaroopam...
ulagatthukku edho solla varraar... is a lumpsome topic to discuss... periyavanga pesinaa nallaarukkum..
+1. Especially paartha vizhi and sriranga songs. Enakku remba naala oru niggling doubt. To what extent is KH's influence on the lyrics? Kallai mattum kandal lines ellam , as an agnostic I can relate to it very well. Athuthaan ketkuren.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
@ 861 - The discussion started with balance about criticisms and not about balance WRT portraying + and - , which I always felt is skewed towards - without balance.
All onger posts - Will come back tonight.
stardust,
to the extent that the lyrcis writers think with kh's brain, and kh speaks with the writer's mouth..
Now it has much reduced social relevance. X 'lives' the same way as Y. The differentiators are vastly reduced (again for only a smaller section of the population than we are willing to acknowledge). It has little meaning beyond that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)
Where the differentiators seem exclusively alive is in the domestic sphere - the language registers, the rituals, modes of worship, cuisine and so on. These do not rankle me. In fact there is - probably irresponsible - kururuppu in trying to keeping alive these. Particularly because they seem fairly innoccuous, there is no ill-treatment of fellow humans etc.
indha sadangu seyyuradhai nippAttaNum- 'nRa mAdhiri ellAm sollavE mAttEn.
I am becoming more and more of a sucker for rituals, surprising what's left of my former teenage self. That is for another day.
I am also vehemently opposed to the argument that 'religion ellAm veettula vachchukkunga' (Kamal's stand is kinda on these lines). Religious experience is very much social and out in the open.
thiruvizhA, kumbAbishEgam, oorvalam (of course, one has to be aware of the newfounded vinayagar oorvalam - which is intentionally political in nature), thEr - all of this I would certainly like to continue.
In Kandadevi, thEvars take exception to Dalits participating in the thEr izhuththal. Periodic vettukuththu, police protection etc. In such circumstances, people tend to say: "ippadi oru thEr thEvaiyA...*#%# religionum vENdAm oNNum vENdAm...veetula saami kumbittukkunga".
I couldn't disagree more with that approach. This is what life is. These moments of joy, the moments when one can try and momentarily aspire for something larger. And if we are not civilized enough and need police protection to conduct ourselves here, I don't think that is a waste at all.
One thing for sure that is not being implied (but is always alleged that this is implied) that one is trying to attest the hierarchy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)
Do you think so?
S.Anand ellAm super comedy. idhu engappan moonji, en moonji mEla ottai vachuttu pOyittAn..asingam asingam range-ku guilt.
To the extent that he will feel at ease only if he decimates every bit of his identity. oru mAdhiri vambadiyA senjA mAdhiri irukkum.
Not even judging him for that - actually I am, just that I find his 'ippadi ellAm senjA dhaan enakku nimmadhi' kinda funny.
I said that to show the decoupling over time. I wanted to point out the class-caste overlap.Quote:
Originally Posted by B(K)
Affinity-nA...eppadiyA irundhaalum ivan namma paya - ivanai podhuvula vittu kudukka koodaadhu..appadi ellAmA? Quite rare I say. Nearly noone would think like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by B(K)
Of course the infamous FB comments after Paramakudi shootout, the Law College padichcha pasanga mOdhal etc. exceptions are there. But that is hardly typical, is it?
OTOH I should acknowledge a sense of, what do I say...enga veetulayum ippadi seyvAnga, same-pinch range-ku sillythanamAna bonding. But I consider that fairly innocuous.
//Digg
This post doing rounds in FB, twitter. Great one to read!
https://www.facebook.com/notes/stali...63949656948690
The crux of the article -> Inside TN, Media and Social Networking mostly discuss caste issues in the plane Brahmin vs non Brahmin. But the atrocities of the other (dominating)castes inside Rural TN is not widely discussed
End Digg//
Devar vs Dalit, indirectly hidden under General rural violence
Brahmin mis beliefs
General Hindu mis-beliefs, vagueness in hindu beliefs
Anti-Muslim acts,
Hindu vs Muslim
International Islam (VR, notreleased though)
Wow, Though Haaser has covered only minor number of issues and there are much more left, but still the impact :notworthy:
'International Islam' patthi sonnaa, koodave 'Internationally irrational Islam' patthiyum vivadham seivvaar endru nambuvom!
Satyamev Jayate : Untouchability - Dignity for All with subtitles
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7OUoXsryE3c
Visu pannadhadha ivar panraaru..
Unlike Visu, this guy is now taking credit for random incidents as a 'social change' that he brought out, out of nowhere.
What nonsense-nga. The last episode on untouchability (the Tamil dubbed version is on Vijay TV right now) was excellent. Has there been a SINGLE instance where Visu's show has done anything remotely similar to this?!Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-glove
edhaiyumE indhila alladhu englisla sonnA namakku nallA irukkum dhAn...it's called abradwajranganitis
Come on, Plum, it's not all the same. I totally understand the reaction "oh but didn't we all know this already?" But there are two things here. One, even what we know, discussing it on such a platform is something remarkable. Visu's show has never done anything remotely close to discussing caste issues. It has always been about a totally different narrative -- poor family, uzhaippAl munnERudhal and so on. Secondly, the show actually brings forth specific issues that are also easily forgotten because it's our reality. For instance, the discussion on manual scavenging in this show. How do you see all this as same old same old? Even for the Tamil public sphere world which is generally more alert to such issues than other parts of India, this is something remarkable.
Comparing what Visu done and aamir done itself is totally needless. What are you going to achieve by finding who is more greater?!? "Keeppukku poranthaa enna, ellaame sugapprasavaa thaane poranthOm" ?!?
There is no harm caused to soceity becos of these kind of shows/ppl. Ippadi ellaam senju extra publikutty thedikittaa kooda thappilla, but actually we need more no of such ppl!
Barka Dutt ammani kooda indha madhiri specials-lam panni irukku, okay-va?Quote:
Originally Posted by equanimus
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
I think it's also easier for Hindi/English platform precisely because there's a sufficient distance from sensitive regions (in question).
Studio engayO irukku, national audience..
Aamir's crying is worse than Visu. Idhu mattum manipulative illaiya enna..
"One, even what we know, discussing it on such a platform is something remarkable."
sollavE illa...