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thumburu, SG ratio was 1 good song out of 10. They hardly had any big blockbusters. The songs you have listed didnt exactly set the charts on fire. How many albums of SG had platinum discs? Some of these songs were played on radio at that time and hence we are familiar, thats all. You have listed isolated popular songs from several films. I cant think of one single big album/blockbuster from SG. Even TR had Oru thalai raagam.
"IR did attempt something different around mid 90's (94-96) after ARR had clearly overtaken him. "
very few and far in between. I remember him delivering duds like Saadhu(for P. Vasu), Thozhar Pandian, Ponvilangu and several others. Clearly no amount of competition could drive him. Even the synth stuff that you are talking about was probably because of KR's involvement. After symphony #1, IR seemed to have lost quite a bit of interest in TFM.
rajdes, I just felt that part of his time could have been better spent on non-filmi albums, thats all, where he could compose without any constraints. In the process, he would have also reduced the bad numbers in TFM. Otherwise, the good ones he has given in TFM is more than enough.
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Vijayr, I agree with you. For some reasons unknown, he never looked comfortable outside of the commercial world of film music. If my memory serves right, he mentioned in one his interviews that he composed the albums How to name it? and Nothing but Wind during the break time he got during film music scoring sessions. I think his symphony and Thiruvasakam were the only two instances when he stole some time from his film music schedule.
I also remember in the case of symphony he gave himself only a month and swiftly returned to composing for some mindless movies. I am afraid if that had any bearing on the quality of the symphony. Its very rare among even the greatest of European classical composers to compose a symphony in a month. According to Mozart experts, even Mozart, arguably the fastest and one of the greatest, took a lot of time and corrected his notes frequently before he presented his works( Indepth research into Mozart's life has negated the myth that Mozart had everything in his mind and put his notes directly on paper without any corrections).
I am just wondering what more he could have achieved if he had come out of his addiction to film music. In European classical music there is a musical form called Rhapsody, wherein you take a folk song and convert it into a classical piece. Hungarian classical composers like Bartok, Liszt and Antonin Dvorak often took Hungarian and Gypsy folk songs and converted them into classical pieces. Ilayaraja, with his immense knowledge of Tamil folk music could have created hundreds of Rhapsodies thereby creating a fusion between European classical music and Tamil folk music. That would have been a totally innovative thing. Or just look at what Bach did. Not only did he create great compositions, but he also left something for posterity. He wrote seminal works on musical techniques ( The Well Tempered Clavier series for example) which inspired countless musicians including Ilayaraja.
Bernard Herrmann, whom many consider the father of film music, once wrote, produced and released an Opera named "Wuthering Heights". He spent enormous amount of money from his own pocket even though he knew from start that it would be a commercial failure. Now thats what I call as true devotion to music. Compare Herrmann's attitude to that of Ilayaraja's. His symphony has not seen the light of the day and Thiruvasakam is in a state of perpetual postponement. This inspite of the fact that Ilayaraja never wastes a chance to say that it was the project for which he was born.
I am always an admirer of Ilayaraja, the musical genius. But Ilayaraja, the man will always remain an enigma to me.
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Vijayr, I agree with you. For some reasons unknown, he never looked comfortable outside of the commercial world of film music. If my memory serves right, he mentioned in one his interviews that he composed the albums How to name it? and Nothing but Wind during the break time he got during film music scoring sessions. I think his symphony and Thiruvasakam were the only two instances when he stole some time from his film music schedule.
I also remember in the case of symphony he gave himself only a month and swiftly returned to composing for some mindless movies. I am afraid if that had any bearing on the quality of the symphony. Its very rare among even the greatest of European classical composers to compose a symphony in a month. According to Mozart experts, even Mozart, arguably the fastest and one of the greatest, took a lot of time and corrected his notes frequently before he presented his works( Indepth research into Mozart's life has negated the myth that Mozart had everything in his mind and put his notes directly on paper without any corrections).
I am just wondering what more he could have achieved if he had come out of his addiction to film music. In European classical music there is a musical form called Rhapsody, wherein you take a folk song and convert it into a classical piece. Hungarian classical composers like Bartok, Liszt and Antonin Dvorak often took Hungarian and Gypsy folk songs and converted them into classical pieces. Ilayaraja, with his immense knowledge of Tamil folk music could have created hundreds of Rhapsodies thereby creating a fusion between European classical music and Tamil folk music. That would have been a totally innovative thing. Or just look at what Bach did. Not only did he create great compositions, but he also left something for posterity. He wrote seminal works on musical techniques ( The Well Tempered Clavier series for example) which inspired countless musicians including Ilayaraja.
Bernard Herrmann, whom many consider the father of film music, once wrote, produced and released an Opera named "Wuthering Heights". He spent enormous amount of money from his own pocket even though he knew from start that it would be a commercial failure. Now thats what I call as true devotion to music. Compare Herrmann's attitude to that of Ilayaraja's. His symphony has not seen the light of the day and Thiruvasakam is in a state of perpetual postponement. This inspite of the fact that Ilayaraja never wastes a chance to say that it was the project for which he was born.
I am always an admirer of Ilayaraja, the musical genius. But Ilayaraja, the man will always remain an enigma to me.
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Arun
I read ur post.You are the another wrong person enters in this thread like me.Thread oda topic parthu yemandhurteengala? :lol:
Ingae IR oda composing tec pathi pesarnaga!!!!! Neenga enna solla vareenga?
Ingae irukum knowledgable persons solra madhiri solla theirja sollunga? otherwise watch them.This is a public discussion forum..
Nanum ungalai madhiri dhan ninaichu ingae vandhaen.Edho notation,harmony,cards.wmc nu pesuvanga nu.Illai.Idhu IR in composing skill patri( not the music skill) pesara place.So neengalaum indha madhiriyae pesunga :lol: Indha madhiri pesaradhu dhan discussion forum.Especially about IR.Ha ha ha!!!!
With Love.
Usha Sankar.
Ps: Indha madhiri naan pesaradhu dhan unga kuda discuss panradhu!!! Right? Learn panraen from u!!!!
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Digression :
K oops Cacaphonix, self defence enna thappa? thumburu kitteye naradhar velaiya? Naaraayana Naaraayana......
vijayr, regarding SG, Iam not talking about quality but mass hits. "They hardly had any big blockbusters. The songs you have listed didnt exactly set the charts on fire" - palaivanacholai(1981), neeya(1980), Kanni paruvathile(1980) sivappumalli(1982), Darling Darling(1982) , Vidhi(1982) , Ranga (1982),moondrumugam(1983) did.
Check out with knowhows, there might be more.
"IR did attempt something different around mid 90's (94-96) after ARR had clearly overtaken him. "
very few and far in between - How could they be far when I have clearly listed the songs(not exhaustive list but nevertheless) within just the variation of 1994-1996? Whether KR was there or not is irrelevant. But it is a fact that there was a marked change in atleast the overall feel to some of his songs with or without KR that time. Ponvilangu is not by IR.
IR's reaction to competition might not be so apparent. But he is a true blood film MD. Aana paavam avar thothu poittaar. avalothaan. Otherwise why all this sour grapes syndrome like his wasting all his years in film music blah blah.
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vijay, agreed. I see your point of view. He could have come out of his comfort zone but didnt. Only thing I wanted to convey is that doesnt make him a lesser musician in comparison to MSV or SDB or anyone.Comparisons are odious...
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thumburu, the movies you have listed of SG- only isolated songs from them were popular in radio. I dont think they had blockbuster albums with all song hits- like PayanangaL mudivathillai. That way,even Chandrabose had a few isolated hits in the late 80s.
"very few and far in between - How could they be far when I have clearly listed the songs(not exhaustive list but nevertheless) within just the variation of 1994-1996? "
Because there were so many other films which didnt have anything new in them. And yes, Ponvilangu is indeed by IR. You can confirm it with his discography
rajdes, not a lesser musician in terms of talent, but definitely questionable professional methods/ethics(like complaining about bad films/directors and continuing to accept them. Either devote same attention to all movies, or accept less). Like Arun mentioned earlier, that part of IR is an enigma.
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thumburu,vijayr
reg.S-G, once Kumudam lights-on made a remark (after kannipparuvathilE & palaivanachchOlai) that they are leading the industry ahead of IR:-( It was a deliberat attempt to belittle IR (which the vambu magazine relished) while not true...At no point S-G had any influence on the listeners like IR/ARR (and to a lesser extent MSV/KVM), where the listener will say `Hi, idhu ivarOda music'...
Having said that, one must admit that `kannipparuvaththilE' was a big hit album with adi ammAdi chinnappoNNu (my personal fav song), nadaiya mAthu (popular with youth) and pattu vaNNa rOsAvAm (two versions, one by SJ another by MV, reverberated in all patti-thotti, much to my dislike... the song itself was inspired from IR's`uchchi vahindheduthu')...
All the others except neeyA were popular only because the movies themselves were big hits and the songs followed...even then vidhi songs weren't much heard (at least not as much as people heard the `olichchithiram', which was so popular)...neeyA songs were hits but exact replicas of the hindi originals...
Well' sorry for the digression...if there's a thread called S-G's composing technique (or Deva's for that matter), it'll be "pick a popular western song, hindi song or IR song and make a (`poor' in case of S-G and `noisy' in case of Deva) replica of it":-)
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App_engine
It was not only Kumudam, but also Ananda Vikatan. I vaguely remember their review for a Devar Movie (I believe it had LAkshmi, Jai and others) in the early 80s after the success of PCholai.
They said something like 'With SG going in this range, they would soon overtake IR'. ...
There was one good SPB-SJ song. However later I found out that the song was lifted from the Hindi "Justi Chowdry' with Bappi Saab as the MD
Thinks were very rough to IR in the early 80s as many of his musical hits did not essentially cash at BO
Bala
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"At no point S-G had any influence on the listeners like IR/ARR (and to a lesser extent MSV/KVM), where the listener will say `Hi, idhu ivarOda music'... "
app_engine, the above remark in which MSV and KVM figure is highly blasphemous :) MSV and KVM did have influence on listeners of another era, about which you are probably unfamiliar. Specifically, guitar bits used to be a distinguishing feature in KVM non-carnatic songs, and thabla and flute was MSV's forte, not to forget the bangos (sp?). I for one, could clearly discern an MSV song those days (late seventies). Raagangal padhinaru, Gowri manohariyai kandEn, kana kaanum kangal mella, ilakkanam maarudho, kamban emandhan, vendum vendum ungal uravu, sippi irukkudhu, were all trademark MSV numbers of the late seventies and early eighties. Bonafide mellisai numbers.
Not to in any way belittle IR (Although my heart is in favor of MSV/KVM/GR/GKV/VK..., my head says IR is better than each one of them individually in the overall achievement scale), but I used to figure out his songs through the meandering/seemingly out of context interludes that were characteristic of many numbers. When we were growing up, we used to regard SG like Deva is being regarded now, that is spoilers. But now, objectively looking at things, SG and Deva are good MDs, IMO.
