Neethane En Ponvasantham | Yeto Vellipoyindhi Manasu | Assi Nabbe Poorey Sau

just to reiterate what i said in my last posting - I can vouch for the fact that during the 1980s/ 1990s, almost every album of IR came under scrutiny by makkals like me - not ordinary scrutiny, but under microscopic analytical mindsets! tracks not worthy of a certain standard we expect of him were 'unselected / rejected' while those that met certain criteria (maybe even arbitrary ones) were classified separately

and these things happened when there was no internet, no grand music launch functions, just two TV channels, and only the radio for company - many of us did not even own a tape player / music system ! so noone was even trying to force anyone's music down our throats - like how it is being done now very often, with music launch shows, teasers blah blah blah!

so our mindset is still the same - i wish old-time hubbers like eden, viswa and shankar (motorla), gokul (maybe he is whiteface) and arularacan/r were around for a more strong rebuttal of some of the funny comments being made here!

the point is - IR's creativity got a firm stamp, ONLY after repeatedly going through several years of 'microscopic' level scrutiny!

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Originally Posted by irir123

I beg to differ - more than GVM persuading IR (he however did play a role in 'bringing' the best out of IR, as IR himself mentioned during the NEPV audio launch) to come out with great music (i dont know how persuaviness will bring out better music!) - I think, it was GVM (i) giving IR the complete 'liberty' of choosing his own orchestra, (ii) asking for brand new fresh tunes and (iii) a brand new sound - all these 3 things combined that resulted in NEPV

when IR could give some stunning stuff in PAA, Cheeni Kum, SHiva (2006) rehashing his old melodies at the behest of the directors (now they must be ruing/regretting the missed opportunity of getting original fresh masterpieces!), it was only obvious what he was going to come up with, when allowed a free hand with these albums!

the very fact that he agreed to reuse his old tunes and make them 'sound' new in terms of orchestration and treatment is testimony to his flexibility as well as leniency! any other 900 plus movies composer with a 'breath-a-minute-music-note' approach to life, would have likely said 'forget it' if approached for reusing old tunes - I would have gotten frustrated

please read my earlier posting as to what directors approaching IR ought to do - in the future - if they want the best out of him!

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You made you point clear Plum. I fully agree with the three points you mentioned. I can see how long this thread has been going on NEPV and we all were waiting with bated breath for this album. But IR's stuff has always been rooted to the core of the movie and not deviating from it. Also oflate he has reduced the number of film efforts. More important, according to me, after TiS, a change has happened within IR and his music...He requires some special stuff to really motivate him.... Since NEPV is again a love story (may be with a difference!), I dont think he would have given the same quality stuff for a different director (For ex. Faazil). I will add another factor to your list...it was GVM's way of approaching IR and his admiration for his music and the mutual respect he commanded from IR, the way he narrated the sequences, that has also helped this effort.

All said, I want to make one point again here.....for the past few years, if the requirement is grand or motivating for him, IR will make it grand...for sure...we can take some examples here.....PR, Naan Kadavul, Paa...Also if the film is about a mundane stuff, nobody need to go to IR...there are other MDs for that.....

I also have read your post on advice for directors and I agree

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Originally Posted by irir123

just to reiterate what i said in my last posting - I can vouch for the fact that during the 1980s/ 1990s, almost every album of IR came under scrutiny by makkals like me - not ordinary scrutiny, but under microscopic analytical mindsets! tracks not worthy of a certain standard we expect of him were 'unselected / rejected' while those that met certain criteria (maybe even arbitrary ones) were classified separately

so our mindset is still the same - i wish old-time hubbers like eden, viswa and shankar (motorla), gokul (maybe he is whiteface) and arularacan/r were around for a more strong rebuttal of some of the funny comments being made here!

the point is - IR's creativity got a firm stamp, ONLY after repeatedly going through several years of 'microscopic' level scrutiny!

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Though I joined the hub only recently (I am reading IR blogs since 2001) I am a conscious listener/admirer of IR music since 1991 and I am listening IR music since 1985. For me too the mistakes come to the mind when I am listening...But to be honest, I can say with 99.9999% confidence that IR has never done mistakes in sruthi...it could be in the tempo/beats/recording....

I however slightly differ on your point "IR's creativity got a firm stamp, ONLY after repeatedly going through several years of 'microscopic' level scrutiny"... I would say music above everybody and even above IR. I dont think he got a creativity "stamp" only after we scrutinized his works.....I feel we ("we" means "fans" in general, not just HCIRF) have grown up late to appreciate his music. This could be because of several reasons. CD, mp3 sound format, blogs (and of course the dearth of quality MDs, plastic music)....I dont think IR's music is begging for creativity stamp....it is just there. if we had not recognized it, it would have been our mistake and not that of IRs.

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Originally Posted by MelHarmony

Everyone has expectations. But IR is not a person who simply shells out world class stuff for ordinary reasons. It was Thiruvasagam that brought out some of his best hidden orchestral capabilities....We cannot compare the requirements of NEPV with TiS because the musical purpose are entirely different. I would say that here in NEPV IR has tried his best and has gone even a bit away from his conscience and has delivered a great album. By no means we can say that "NEPV theme has inspired IR to give such an output", because as he has always said music must be spontaneous...he can give some world class melodies, but decorating with world class orchestration has happened in NEPV simply because of GVM's effort in persuading/convincing IR, offering a foreign orchestra to make it grand.

Dont expect chartbusters from IR always...he is not of that class...some time back K.JYesudas mentioned exactly same about IR..."mere money cannot bring you music out of him".

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Agree with you. NEPV has melodies that have been decorated really well, but I was just being greedy by asking some more richness :)

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Originally Posted by MelHarmony

Everyone has expectations. But IR is not a person who simply shells out world class stuff for ordinary reasons.
Dont expect chartbusters from IR always...he is not of that class...some time back K.JYesudas mentioned exactly same about IR..."mere money cannot bring you music out of him".

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That is very true. In the interview with Rajkiran he specifically told IR considers it thozhil dhrogam if he gives special music just for his favourite people. I think people overlook a lot about his style of composing and his philosophy of music and value system just thinking he is arrogant etc.

He makes music spontaneously and that makes him impossible to favour anybody even if he thinks. Infact he asked Gautam whether he thought he had prepared the tunes in advance but Gautam ruled it out as he explained the sequence there. He just leaves the whole scenarios to inspire him to come up with the music.

I clearly remember some director telling when i asked Raja sir to give him music like that he gives for Balu Mahendra, IR asked him to tell him a story like moonram pirai first..

So that is his value system. It may annoy you all.you may complain it.But that is how it is..

I mean look at Raasave unna nambi..Its world class, heck its heaven class.But think of the scenario it was born..

The story and screenplay of Mudhal Mariyadhai,Bharathiraja at his peak, Sivaji at his monstrous best, Vairamuthu challenging his music with words, Janaki at her peak

When such an inspiration happens look how he delivers.

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Originally Posted by irir123

many ppl just dont understand the classic mindset of any HCIRF ! at least HCIRFs like me begin to listen to any new album of IR with the sole objective of finding faults on the recording, use of synth etc etc areas!

I did the same with NEPV - and i do have issues with at least one song 'pudikkala maamu' - but IRs' greatness appears to lie in anticipating such expectations from fans like me and almost always come up stuff that overrides my natural skepticism! - of course when he is allowed a free hand!

am making this point with reference to the ongoing 'tussle' last few pages!

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That's heart-breaking. Pudikkala maamu has the best prelude and interludes! The rock beginning rockzzz...

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Originally Posted by brigs

Agree with you. NEPV has melodies that have been decorated really well, but I was just being greedy by asking some more richness :)

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Richness..Oh My God..

He can even compose a symphony, but does NEPV deserve or has a place for it.

I am very worried that GVM is going to spoil Mudhal Murai.
Because Mudhal murai is a song which takes the energy level and emotions similar to Kavidhai Kelungal.
Let him deliver that song properly, then let us demand more richness..

All these current directors have only one way of shooting love dejections.
Sarakkadhichuttu kuthu pattu like enna thedi vantha anjala..or some soga song like mannipaya

The emotions that Mudhal Murai brings out, How many directors are there to bring out that emotion in todays movies.
When you are asking about why his songs are not like 80s songs..look at todays movies.

Do they have any different scenario??
Except love, Style, Kuthu, sogam, violence and all these as plain as a plastic

That is why Raja said he can make those songs but asked will Vijay or ajith act in such songs

That is why todays emotionless catchy music is just a passing cloud and Raja's music for such different inspired scenarios will stay
for ever...

There are people who are exposed to only indian music and may not see the value in IR's orchestration. I am fine with this. There are people who are exposed to all kinds of music but fail to understand the purpose and usage of an orchestra in IR's music. They compare apples with oranges. This is what annoys the most. Because these people claim to be knowledgeable and music savvy and yet are wont to pass on criticisms on IR's music for the wrong reason.
Re: instrumentation - when you use an orchestra you dont want one instrument to stand out. Of course, you could have violin, harp or brass concerto. But here the orchestra's main purpose is to highlight the tune. For eg. in saRRu munbu, the whole is more than sum of the parts.
If you want highlight of certains instruments, you can see it in the rest of the songs (other an muthal muRai (nice lead guitars here), saRRu munbu and vaanam mella). Ok, brigs needs to clarify "instrumentation".
BTW, to me the 'nee thaanE en pon vasantham' reprise in muthal muRai sounds as effective as Queen's - we will rock you. And probably have a durability and longevity like that.
Also note, the originality point from V_S, not all songs and works of IR will/can be a hit. It is completely an individual effort with only the basic music techniques learnt from the masters. So there will be misses and probably mistakes or rough edges. But he will continue to do it his own way so that every minute he is learning and improving. He keeps getting better and better whether you and me notice it, acknowledge it or not. This is very valuable to people like me who want musicians to give their originality not something that just pleases me for a while.

How to take (some) life out of a song?

Listen to the stage singer for 'mudhal muRai pArtha gnAbagam' :-(

Perhaps the biggest sodhappal of the program.

BTW, kaNkaLil thaNNeer as the orchestra plays 'then pANdichcheemaiyilE'!
:clap:
:Pughazha vArththaikaL illai:

I could notice the end credit titles of Jaya TV programme, showing the names of the all the instrumentalists (but without associated instrument names) played in Chennai. Can somebody write it down and place it on record here in this tfm page. They may be the same one who played in Angel Studio.

I could see the two English faces in the audience who are likely to be the partners of Nick the conductor in the Anglo Indian cinema music company. Somebody can contact Nick also for the name of instrumentalists.