Suththa thamizhachi thaamarai

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MADDY

also, nandigram never appears in Roys' and leftists discussion-ngradhu dhaan en karuthhu......even u singled out kandhamal and Gujarat but not nandigram......before the elction result too - did Akka Roy and co. question left on this??

---

Yes. Repeatedly.

For example:
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/19100

or here, where she castigates Chomsky for saying it's important to support the CPI(M) so as not to split the left::
http://sanhati.com/news/527/

And on Tehelka, from where it's worth quoting:

Quote:

---

How does one view the recent State and police violence in Bengal?

No different from police and State violence anywhere else — including the issue of hypocrisy and doublespeak so perfected by all political parties including the mainstream Left. Are Communist bullets different from capitalist ones?

---

http://tehelka.com/story_main28.asp?...utright_CS.asp

And elsewhere, many many times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram

And by the way I was focusing the emphasis on Cinefan's statement about the determination India lacks. I think everyone directly interpreted it as his approval of GoSL's methods and the focus of the discussion moved away. It is for Cinefan to say if I did understand his statement correctly or not.

---

Well, the problem is that you can't separate the determination from the methods. The GoSL would simply not have been able to wipe out the LTTE without using the methods they did. Smaller scale military measures of the sort the GoSL's been using on and off since the 60s (and which the IPKF used in the 1980s) will simply not come anywhere near wiping the group out.

Similarly, India will not be able to "wipe out" ULFA, the Naxalites or the Kashmiri militants using the sort of techniques we use today (horrible as they are) - if "wiping out" is our goal, we, too, will need to use tactics of the sort Sri Lanka used. The determination Cinefan admired is, in essence, a determination to wipe out the group in question and a determination to turn a blind eye to the inevitable civilian costs. The methods are a necessary consequence of a determination to achieve the goal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by podalangai

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MADDY

also, nandigram never appears in Roys' and leftists discussion-ngradhu dhaan en karuthhu......even u singled out kandhamal and Gujarat but not nandigram......before the elction result too - did Akka Roy and co. question left on this??

---

Yes. Repeatedly.

For example:
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/19100

or here, where she castigates Chomsky for saying it's important to support the CPI(M) so as not to split the left::
http://sanhati.com/news/527/

And on Tehelka, from where it's worth quoting:

Quote:

---

How does one view the recent State and police violence in Bengal?

No different from police and State violence anywhere else — including the issue of hypocrisy and doublespeak so perfected by all political parties including the mainstream Left. Are Communist bullets different from capitalist ones?

---

http://tehelka.com/story_main28.asp?...utright_CS.asp

And elsewhere, many many times.

---

thanks podalai :) its good to see her taking on left as well though calling them her friends.....i still hold on to the opinion that the "nandigram" didnt have that much coverage as a godhra or kandhamal had in our mainstream media.....fair enuf.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MADDY

i still hold on to the opinion that the "nandigram" didnt have that much coverage as a godhra or kandhamal had in our mainstream media.....fair enuf.....

---

Neenga 'Hindu' vaasagar polirukku ..athula varaathu. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by podalangai

The determination Cinefan admired is, in essence, a determination to wipe out the group in question and a determination to turn a blind eye to the inevitable civilian costs. The methods are a necessary consequence of a determination to achieve the goal.

---

cant get clear than this :bow: but i still believe "no one" can or will agree to the GOSL methods even if it means giving up some of the "determination" ......i would still attribute Cinefan's grouse to "no action" than anything else and i'm sure he or any common indian wud not want civilian casualities to wipe out terror.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MADDY

i still hold on to the opinion that the "nandigram" didnt have that much coverage as a godhra or kandhamal had in our mainstream media.....fair enuf.....

---

Neenga 'Hindu' vaasagar polirukku ..athula varaathu. :)

---

vaadaye aagadhu :lol: i'm a big fan of TOI and read it for timepass only :P i look up to CNN-IBN, NDTV and Times now for real news and opinions......i dont know, i still hold that respect for Rajdeep, Pranoy roy and Arnab Goswami :oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crajkumar_be

7. Yes, i also wonder why the Arundhatis dont talk about Kashmiri Pundits.

---

They do talk about Kashmiri Pundits. If they seem not to, it's because they don't think the Pundits' plight has any bearing on the question of whether Kashmiris have a right to "azadi". Here's a quote from Roy's Outlook article:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arundhati Roy

Those who wish to turn to the Quran for guidance will no doubt find guidance there. But what of those who do not wish to do that, or for whom the Quran does not make place? Do the Hindus of Jammu and other minorities also have the right to self-determination? Will the hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Pandits living in exile, many of them in terrible poverty, have the right to return? Will they be paid reparations for the terrible losses they have suffered? Or will a free Kashmir do to its minorities what India has done to Kashmiris for 61 years? What will happen to homosexuals and adulterers and blasphemers? What of thieves and lafangas and writers who do not agree with the "complete social and moral code"?
(...)
However, none of these fears of what the future holds can justify the continued military occupation of a nation and a people. No more than the old colonial argument about how the natives were not ready for freedom justified the colonial project.

---

i.e., what's happened to the Kashmiri pundits is bad, and it is is one of the questions an independent Kashmir will have to resolve. But it cannot be an excuse to hold on to Kashmir.

Incidentally, the impression I get is that she believes Jagmohan is equally responsible for the exodus of Kashmiri Pundits, I'll have to search for where she said that and why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by podalangai

The GoSL would simply not have been able to wipe out the LTTE without using the methods they did. Smaller scale military measures of the sort the GoSL's been using on and off since the 60s (and which the IPKF used in the 1980s) will simply not come anywhere near wiping the group out.

---

This is disturbing. For instance, why wouldn't an extended siege sealing land and sea borders not have worked ? The siege was always attempted and was never perfect, pores remained etc. But some stage in the war when SL Army was sure it had locked the LTTE into a confined area. Why couldn't it have applied the siege. I believe they had a choice at that point between that and cluster bombing and 'chose' the latter.

Anyway, I will duck all the uncomfortable questions your post raises. It will be pompous of me to pretend to have answers when all I have is fear and anger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram

Of course it was one in a string of intelligence failures. Similarly the train blasts in June 2005 in Mumbai, two blasts in Hyderabad in the space of a few months in 2007 add to that Guwhati, Bangalore etc. And we elect back the same government. So whose is the apathy ? It is very much the public which doesn't seem to care.

---

My impression is that the middle class upwards tend to be a lot more concerned about security from terrorism, perhaps because we're secure in many other respects. Other people get angry about it when it happens, but it simply isn't as significant or game-changing an issue for them, perhaps because their life is insecure in so many other ways or perhaps because their concerns are simply different.

Around 175 were killed in the attacks on Mumbai last year. More than twice that number die every month falling off local trains in Mumbai. This isn't an analogy I've pulled out of my hat, it's one I heard several times from locals after the 2006 train bombings when 200+ died. ("Train pe bomb futke mar sakte hai to train se girke bhi mar sakte hai. Ispe tension leke kya fayda?")

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MADDY

i still hold that respect for Rajdeep, Pranoy roy and Arnab Goswami :oops:

---

The single most irritating person on TV. :x
Particularly his 'debates' are hilarious and annoying simultaneously. He usually has a strong viewpoint and harass those in the panel who disagree. BJP will contribute to the fun by sending choice specimens like B.P.Singhal to represent them in the panel :lol: