New age IR's Raga Choices

thumburu, yes there's natakurinji like phrases at some points. Some rageshree like too. Nanna kozhapparaar nambalai.. While we are cracking our brains,

Here's a birthday dedication to our friend Suresh..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwG7l...ayer_embedded#!

Many happy returns of the day, mate !

Ponnil Vaanam - i also do not see a natakurinji but 'feel' sriranjani. But again, is it a mix between sriranjani & kamas?

Thanks RR for the wishes and the song :)

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Originally Posted by csramasami

Kolangal song Mouna ragam-karnataka suddha saveri - is definitely, a well established one Carnatically ragamwise. I hope the lyric is written by IR himself, since I find the word “Nyaana Desiganai” in the last line of Charanam, I guess that way.
(I only proceeded from where our friend Vel Ramanan established that this is not Malahari, then I got into the verification process.)

Mouna Ragam from Kolangal in Karnataka Suddha Saveri

Listen to the song here : http://thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp...9'&lang=en

The lighter version of this raga is in still older one :Amma Endru from Devotional Album IR - Geetha Vazhipaadu:

Listen to the song here : http://thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp...4'&lang=en

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Yes CSR -- both follow KSS raga pattern as you have said. Great raga find from the Geetha vazhipaadu song.

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Originally Posted by csramasami

Another classically classical is the Ponnil Vaanam, an equivalently stunning rendition by S Janaki (again with the swaras of Karnataka khamas, but with different feel )

Ponnil Vaanam from Villupattukkaran in Ragam : karnAtaka khamAs
Listen to the song here : http://thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.asp...2'&lang=en

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CSR ji, i would go with your judgement! It is the notes of karnataka khamas and cannot be khamas as i dont see any Ri2. It cannot be nattakurinji as the omission of Ri2 is complete.

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Originally Posted by csramasami

You have also rightly approached the “Kangalukkul Ennai Ezhudhu” which is quite logical. In fact this was the first song I took up in 2004 with Vicky who confirmed the 4-swara aspect as well as the raga name as Lavangi.

Then I further took it up (in IR-yahoo group as well with others) to explain how IR goes for modulation with 4 swara raga (Lavangi), then 5 swara (Amirthavarshini) and then 6 swara (initially I found the name Ponni for that, but later in rasikas.org somebody corrected me as Mandari) etc. (Vel knows this, but still have some reservations, I think, in updating his Iliayaragam with the name Lavangi !)

But unlike the way Aboorva raagangal song in Mahathi is quoted often, this one in Lavangi is never known to many. (Only when Vel update his site and then in Thiraipaadal, world will notice that)

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before we analyze this one, let us first salute the genius of IR....what innovations and yet no compromise on the melody ! And all this on top of a racy rythm pattern. This is a masterpiece.

another salute to you CSR ji ! You have introduced so many gems to me and fans like me and we are forever indebted to you for inculcating this open minded approach to analyzing raaja songs. You taught me to not to brush aside anything that my small brain cannot understand. I learnt that learning attitude from you. Gifted to have you amongst us.

i will post on the song shortly.

About the song and the various raga confusions -- here is my take. The below are the connecting dots of this music puzzle


1 Kanakāngi S R1 G1 M1 P D1 N1 S S N1 D1 P M1 G1 R1 S

a derivative of Kanakāngi = Karnātaka Shuddha Sāveri S R1 M1 P D1 S S D1 P M1 R1 S

another derivative of Kanakāngi = Lavangi S R1 M1 D1 S S D1 M1 R1 S


2. Kanakangi is grahabedham counterpart of pantuvarali - S R1 G3 M2 P D1 N3 S S N3 D1 P M2 G3 R1 S


3. grahabedham of kanakangi's janya ragam Karnātaka Shuddha Sāveri S R1 M1 P D1 S S D1 P M1 R1 S is amruthavarshini S G3 M2 P N3 S S N3 P M2 G3 S


The song pallavi is in lavangi we may say (which is a derivative of kanakangi). There is a sruthi change in the charanams and the Ri1 of the kanakangi/lavangi is played as Sa. From this Ri1 to the next octave's Ri1 is actually kanakangi or its derivatives morphing as pantuvarali and its derivative -- all derived by the tonic shift of the Ri as the new Sa.

No matter what notes are added or deleted, these are structural premises with which this song operates !

The feel of pantuvarali in charanams is undeniable and hence i call it as that.

Fantastic dissection Vel. I understand it theoretically and i admit, we need a live demo of this (using keyboard), to really assimilate this. But nevertheless, fantastic insight!:clap:

hi thanks a lot aakarsh, its a great Eureka feeling when such dissections are done. The joy multiplies several folds when i share it with others. As i said, it is due to legendary and open minded fans like CSR who taught me this explorative attitude. (If you talk to CSR, you will be surprised at his depth of knowledge and yet his adoring awe and respect for IR......He has shared with me plenty of raga and WCM insights 5-6 years ago...now he is too busy these days)

I thank my stars that i didnt have the air or the false arrogance to dismiss any IR song as a rotten apple. That would have been a pathetically sorry state of affairs really! I believe in what SPB said once -- there is never a waste song in IR's music ....Now, coming from him, that is a grand statement -- a statement that makes me patiently check and dig for any underlying pattern of innovation/unique aspect in a IR song!

Lovely dissection from Vel. Thanks.

Let me now take a ragam that has always been a success whenever Raja uses it, 'Suddha Saveri'. Another one of those ragams with which Raja unheard heights in film music. 'kovil mani osai', 'kanna kanna nee enge', 'kaadhal mayakkam', 'sithagathi pookale' are samples. He has used this extensive. Unlike Mayamalavagowla which he uses in every possible situation, Raja generally uses Suddha Saveri for more melody oriented songs.

Lets see a few songs that he did in the later part of 90s and in 2000s where he has used 'Suddha Saveri' and it is but natural that the songs are very melodious.

I didn't hear it when it was released. Those were the 'Raja is past his prime' phase and I am wasn't reading tfmpage either. Not sure how the reviews were in tfmpage for 'Kochu Kochu Santoshangal' but when I heard this song, it became an instant favorite of mine. I have three version of this song, one a duet, one a male solo and one a female solo. And I have these in two versions, mp3 and wma. And I play all these six versions one after the other in my mp3 player and I never tire out. Right from the first humming, where the voices trill, the stamp of master exists. What an extraordinary melody. And when the melody goes, 'pranaya nila' you have no choice but to surrender. And that 'oru noor ishtam kaadhil sonnadhaaranu', especially the female portion. No words. KKS was probably a late 90s film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVTAr_Va30I

As I said, Raja generally uses Suddha Saveri for duets and mainly melodious duets. So I was surprised when he took that ragam and used it for a seeming erotic song. It was our bad that during a phase lot of films which Raja gave music to never released. I hear that 'Dhanush' was one such movie. This had some nice songs and the favorite of mine is this Suddha Saveri based number. Replying a lot on rhythm, Raja gives a totally different color to Suddha Saveri. 'Dhanush' was probably an early 2000 movie.

http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer...615%27&lang=en

It is a testimony to the genius of Raja that he could take the same raga, use a very similar rhythm like that of the 'Dhanush' song and convert it into a very nice bhakthi song!!! 'Amma Paamalai' had some excellent melodies, including Raja's superb Kalyani. Unfortunately not many were happy with Bhavatharini singing almost all the songs. This particular song based on Suddha Saveri is sung by Bhavatharini with Raja also contributing. The song has a lovely shenai prelude. I love this song and listen to it often. This was also an early 2000 album.

http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer...131%27&lang=en

And early this year came 'Ayyan' which everyone hated, except for one song. Not surprisingly that song was based on Suddha Saveri. This is vintage Raja, squeezing out every melodic possibility from the ragam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbj-Q...eature=related

The audio quality is better in the thiraipaadal site. So head here if you don't worry about the visuals.

http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer...257%27&lang=en

For the sake of completeness, I am including the reworked 'Kochu Kochu Santoshangal' song here. This appears in the Telugu film 'Ninnuchoodaka Nenundalenu'. Raja makes quite a few changes in the tune as well as orchestration. Maybe because I heard it first, I prefer the Malayalam version:

http://www.raaga.com/play/?id=8849