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"Whereas, MSV/TKR and others MDs of that era believed in doing their job and remaining in the background" - vijayr's desperate attempt to make a saint out of them. Avangalukku chance kedaikkalai . Why is MSV seen in many movies these days than heard thru music ? He is even seen in jingles these days.
Because there were so many other films which didnt have anything new in them. - That is because his new attempt didn't find any takers and he had to resort to his Karakaatakkaran type of songs
"And yes, Ponvilangu is indeed by IR. You can confirm it with his discography" - I have seen that dud movie and MD is some Balabharathy or ManiBharathy. Many web discographies are fraught with factual errors.
thumburu's desperate attempt to defend IR :-)
"Why is MSV seen in many movies these days than heard thru music ? He is even seen in jingles these days."
MSV is very much heard thru his music. Do you watch "thenamudhu" on TV channels for his melodies?
Even 2 days back there was a felicitation function for him where IR included himself and Rahman as those greatly benefitted by MSV's music.
Now that he has retired from TFM he can sing, dance or play cricket or do whatever he wants:-) The point is, when he was the numero uno and TFM MD he didnt do all that.
"That is because his new attempt didn't find any takers "
and why did his so called "new attempt" didnt find any takers? Because there was nothing much new about it as compared to the trends then. And even then it was still the 1 song or so that was supposedly "new" in an album. The balance 5 were same old stuff.
Ponvilangu is indeed by IR. TFM encyclopaedia Saravanan has confirmed it here
http://tfmpage.com/forum/23371.12068.06.46.36.html
Even other wise there were plenty of other duds- aanazhagan, MuthukaaLai, periya marudhu, Maharaasan, thedi vandha raasa etc. etc. The list goes on endlessly. It would be surprising to find more than 1 decent song from these albums.
Rajdes, he wasnt being true to himself. Complaining publicly about bad films and same situations on one hand and continuing to accept them. Thats what I am talking about.Even professionally, there were many tiffs between him and directors in the late 80s. Some were asked to accept whatever he gave them. Since he was the biggie then, they had no choice. But as soon as they found a choice(after 1992) they dumped him.
"and infact much of what we call junk were hits and made the respective producers happy"
no, much of what I call junk were'nt hits. When I listed those films here, even many hardcore IR fans here claim not to have heard them. And I myself have been an avid radio listener during the 80s.
Digression
some spice-
http://www.dailythanthi.com/article....date=6/17/2005
End-Digression
Now, here we can infer from MSV that for great output from a gifted musician, good and sometimes even task-master-like team members (e.g. MGR) are needed...Explains why IR's output for Mahendran, BR, MR, KB were exceptional...
app_engine, without doubt IR started (wittingly or unwittingly) the trend of MDs getting more and more publicity. I didn't mean that. What I meant was that even before IR, we were able to identify MSV, KVM, and others according to their type of music. Vasantha kaala nadhigaLilE, adhisaya ragam, ezhu swarangaLukkuL, vizhiyE kadhai ezhudhu, ninaivalE silai seidhu etc were in the early or mid seventies and these were clearly discernible as bearing the stamp of MSV. So the statement "idhu IR-oda music" is not special only for IR is what I wanted to say :)
Music4Ever, nAn adhu suththamA illainnu sollalayE...please refer my original post on this...I mentioned MSV/KVM to a lesser extent'nu solli irukkEnE:-)...Ofcourse, discerning listeners (like you) as well as admirers of specific MD's in particular (and ofcourse industry customers themselves like MGR,KB etc) could always find out specific ingradients in songs...
However since when a commoner (like me who didn't differentiate a VK song from MSV songs in 70's or some MSV songs from KVM songs of 60's) started caring about who the MD is and started making comments to his friends like `indha mAdhiri saththam vandhA adhu Raja dhAn'? I'm just trying to give the due credit to Raja there...
And also due credits to ARR...one of my previous colleagues (an Engineer ofcourse) who could not distinguish violin sound from harmonium sound, and used to exclaim `ada indha satham violin-nu unakku theriyudhE' in late 80's started making comments like `ippadi sounds vandhA adhu Rahman dhAn' in the 90's...
Hype? Marketing? Savvy? Call anything you like...but I'm clear in my mind - based on my interaction with 100's of people in TN & Kerala - that IR & ARR are the ones who made MD an icon! ( I don't mind them being compared to Britney while MSV/KVM is to Bach...let me be part of the kuppan-suppan group and not the elite)...
'clearly discernible as bearing the stamp of MSV' - TFM page varadhukku munnAdi varaikkum I thought `mannavan vandhAnadi thOzhi' is by MSV and `mAdhavippon mayilAL' by KVM for e.g....and `kAdhOdu dhAn', 'nAn unnai vAzhthippAdugiREn' were in my MSV books...
just like how many thought "oru kaadhal devadhai" or "oru peN pura" or "taj mahal thevai illai anname" are by IR until they were informed otherwise. Deva, Balabharathi, S-G all made clever imitations of IR's style and sometimes the resulting product was even better than some of IR's own songs.
For the 80s generation MSV/KVM might not be discernible. But probably for someone who grew up in the 60s, MSV's style was probably clearly discernible from the heavy classical stuff that was TFM till that time. "Mellisai" or light music was first ushered in by MSV and he used a variety of instruments not used before in TFM. Unless otherwise we ask commoners from the 60s, we'll never know. A lot of things(other than music) were different back then. We have to look at how media evolved, the cultural/social changes etc. Otherwise a comparison between MDs based on just their perceived popularity would be meaningless. For instance, MSV didnt benefit from TV exposure the way IR songs did and IR didnt benefit from sat TV channels and internet(and other advances) the way Rahman did. All these play a part in the perceived popularity.
"Ofcourse, discerning listeners (like you) as well as admirers of specific MD's in particular (and ofcourse industry customers themselves like MGR,KB etc) could always find out specific ingradients in songs... "
app_engine, idhu konjam over-nu nenaikkarEn, this placing me in the discerning listeners list :) Of course, I was an avid MSV admirer in the seventies. For example, if you listen to adhisaya ragam and gangai yamunai, the mridangam is very prominent, a typical feature of many MSV songs (may be even the song muthu thAragai vAna veedhi vara, IIRC, was a mridangam special, but I could be wrong).
" 'clearly discernible as bearing the stamp of MSV' - TFM page varadhukku munnAdi varaikkum I thought `mannavan vandhAnadi thOzhi' is by MSV and `mAdhavippon mayilAL' by KVM for e.g....and `kAdhOdu dhAn', 'nAn unnai vAzhthippAdugiREn' were in my MSV books..."
Of course, there are exceptions as Vijayr has rightly pointed out :)
Take the song "adho andha thendral oru poovai thedudhu". For a long time I was under the (mis)impression that MSV composed it. It was SG, however, who was the MD. Also, I believe that the sixties and seventies had several equally talented MDs unlike the eighties, so it was hard to identify certain gems as to who composed them.
"Hype? Marketing? Savvy? Call anything you like...but I'm clear in my mind - based on my interaction with 100's of people in TN & Kerala - that IR & ARR are the ones who made MD an icon! ( I don't mind them being compared to Britney while MSV/KVM is to Bach...let me be part of the kuppan-suppan group and not the elite)..."
I have no problem at all with your above observation. Definitely the MD was an icon starting with IR and continued during ARR's time in the nineties, but not anymore. However, I was only commenting on the discernibility of music composed by pre-IR giants, which you also seem to accept :)
I am also in agreement with many points that Vijayr has proposed.
Vijay, Pl stop commenting on IR's profressionalism or work ethics based on your assumptions and speculations about what might have happened during that time. Even if you insist that you know certain things, the truth of the matter is nobody knows what happened and why certain things happened. To question the professionalism and work ethics of somebody of IR' stature without any factual knowledge is absolutely stupid and just shows your immaturity. so what if he complained publicly of same situations being given to him, it does not mean he hated the work. we all complain about our work sometime or the other but still continue to do the job. IR was comfortable in film music and that was his job so he continued doing it even if he complained about it.Infact great singers like Mohd Rafi and Kishore Kumar always ridiculed the kind of songs being made but they still sang a lot of so called junk songs because that is their job. People who had a good music sense got the best out of Ir and that is all what matters.
Guys pl stop responding to Vijay and his adamant insistence that he knows all the facts and his opinions are always correct. This is not the thread for that let him create another thread like "Junks of IR " or "Professionalism and ethics of IR" and keep discussing this topic. Please move on to discuss IR's composing techinique and not get caught up in this mindless and worthless discussion.
Hope everyone gets back to senses.