Kbee sir,Quote:
Originally Posted by kbee
is I24 hrs a symphony like HTNIT or NBW?I have not been able to find it in Bangalore.
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Kbee sir,Quote:
Originally Posted by kbee
is I24 hrs a symphony like HTNIT or NBW?I have not been able to find it in Bangalore.
HI Guys,
Week 2 has gone with great expectations for the TIS release. Will week 3 atleast fetch some fortune for IR fans?
irfansong, i went to kbee sir store last week and asked him about TIS. he said he doesnt want to discuss anything about a product that is not yet released, since it might impact the ongoing talks between TIS team and the people who is going to release the CD. He also mentioned that nothing concrete happened yet and the CD will not be out 3rd week of June. So we have to wait I guess.
Going thru' all the posts only makes me want to grab the TIS CB at the earliest! But wonder when that would happen.
I read an April '05 issue of "The Week "which stated that IR plans to officially release the album to the president, Abdul Kalam and the album may be available to the public in May. Its already May and I wonder when its going to available in the market.
With the kind of information coming out here, like the final sale price agreement is the cause of delay ( whether it should $10 or $15), I just thought of recalling the attention of all to my previous posts here......
In the end, they keep talking about their debt (not to forget that they have not yet published the contribution details from the collections made in US in USD)....
And giving out reasons like final sales price, that this is a much valued product than the pop albums in the market bla bla.....
Proving once again these people just do not know what they are talking about.
It is sad that Ilaiyaraaja's second major western classical work is loosing its sheen because of these characters surrounding him.
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· From: Kannan Sanderson on: Thu Dec 2 05:11:40 EST 2004
SSSSAV
It is ok that finally it has been decided to call this a music in Oratory format. But the fact that when vocal -solo and group voices- are involved then it can never be a symphony format.
But the most important thing now is "When are you guys going to release?" having created so much hype during the last few months.
Anything concrete happening on that front because suddenly there seems to be a total silence here in this forum as well as the Tis web site.
As to Fr Jegath's comments that big companies like Sony/Universal are not interested in South Indian music, I would like to add some thing.
No music company will touch a product unless they have a clarity on the target audience and target market. That too a product for which already you guys have pumped in so much money.
Lack of knowledge and planning is evident here in the way in which things happened. Of course, the attitude seem to be "after all it is other peoples money" and the supreme over confidence that once complete then this product will sell like a hot cake. And we will not only return the n number of blokes from whom loans have been taken but make enough money to do this and that etc.
To give you an example, I don't understand why you should go Mumbai for voice mixing when it is Tamil vocals you are mixing. Because it is common knowledge that it would have cost 10 times more than what it costs in Chennai.
Secondly, people finally buy the product for the final quality and not just for recording quality or the recording engineer. Just because a Grammy award winning recording engineer did a product, you can not hope to win a Grammy. But eventually these kind of things add up to your project cost. That is where a lack of clarity in your objective and planning come to the fore.
And you guys talk about a CD at $20 some thing which is way above what the market can absorb. Even top selling album of the pop, rock variety does not cost more than $10 to 15.
Basically where to fit in this product, that must be big question for any label that consider taking up this product.
It is not a plain orchestral work. Because in that case, at least on paper, the whole world becomes your potential market.
It has vocals in Tamil. So you have to restrict yourself to Tamil and Tamil speaking market.
But then there also there is an added dampener. It is not just Tamil but also in English.
So eventually it looks like in all your hype, hero worship and over enthusiasm you seem to have created a product which no one wants to touch. Even if some one takes it up, it is not going to be with a fat down payment as you guys might be imagining.
You may have to spend for the initial marketing blitz. Eventually the record company will pay only so much for every piece sold after deducting for their marketing, distribution and margin. So for a $10 end price, you may get about 4 or 5 to give you an example.
In the end, you have clearly over spent far above the possible returns. Of course, the total collections and expenses details are yet to be published. But even a guesstimate must be mind boggling, I am sure. Because there were hints in some of the mails and announcements that this initial project cost will touch Rs.1.0 crore. That is really a huge sum for a 60 minute album, if you know music business!
All the best in your efforts.
Kannan Sanderson
· From: Kannan Sanderson on: Tue Dec 14 07:22:38 EST 2004
"If, in the meantime, you guys want to make a smear campaign, please feel free and go ahead with your abuses, which are not new to us. THIS TIME, TiO IS A REALITY AND NO FORCE ON THE EARTH CAN STOP IT FROM REACHING THE MASS IN A BIG WAY"
Hello SSSSA,
Better stop all this bravado and come to the point.
You go all the way to New York and spend considerable amount of time and resources and declare that the product is ready.
Then the Maestro gets into correction mode and you go thru the cycle all over again.
Already you had admitted that the Maestro made a last minute demand in New York to change the recoding to Surround Sound and that added up some unexpected shock to the already over blown budget. Now comes the rework.
This is what I call lack of clear planning, objectives and total lack of regard for other people's money! You are not doing this as a project in a professional way. Just going along as it takes to the whims and fancies of the Maestro.
Does this show any sense of ownership or responsibility on your part? Absolutely not.
And you talk about people making a smear campaign. If some one asks you a question, in your parlance, it is a smear campaign, is it?
Hello Boss, have you forgotten that you are doing a public project with public money. And you have the responsibility to answer?
The last update in your site was on 3rd Dec. Where is the Rev. Father? Why no news man? Naturally people are concerned. Because they have paid for this project.
By getting upset whenever some one asks you questions, you are just trying to run away from the issue.
KS
kannansanderson
Posts: 4 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:17 am
Info from TIS-USA site
US$ INR
Orchestra-Hungary 58,000 2,726,000
English Lyrics Stephan Schwartz 15,000 705,000
Richard King Sony Mixing 27,000 1,269,000
Ilaiyaraaja-Travel Stay Hospitality 10,000 470,000
Chorus recording India 50,000 2,350,000
Admin Overheads 4,000 188,000
Total 164,000 7,708,000
Loans India 100,000 4,700,000
Loans USA 50,000 2,350,000
Total 150,000 7,050,000
The Tamil Maiyam web site gives a donation list totaling to Rs.10.5 lacs.
The TIS-USA site lists the names of the donors but not the amount. Hence we don’t know the total donation inflow from the USA. Some time back Fr.Jegath mentioned a loan of USD 100,00 for him self and USD 40,000 for Mr. Sankar Kumar.
When I thought even Rs.77 lacs is a mind-boggling sum for a 60-minute album, Fr. Jegath talks of a total expense of Rs.1.2 crores. I just don’t understand many things here. Some of the expense figures are obnoxious, to say the least.
On what basis some one could have spent so much on a single album ?
And his talk of audio piracy, MP3, FM broadcast etc. have not come out just now. They are there for quite some time. And they are the reasons even major labels have stopped spending so much in creating new albums. Even when they do, they take into consideration these aspects before estimating a realistic sales figures and expected revenue. Based on which they plan and fix their project cost. Not the other way round.
A simple back of the hand calculation would tell you the kind of numbers TIO has to sell before even recuperating your investment.
And in this condition, the proud decision to donate all the profits this and that only looks like a crude joke.
Total Cost USD 255,319 Rs. 12,000,000
Pre release/Post Release Publicity USD 30,000 Rs. 1,410,000
Sales Estimation to break even:
Assuming a base price of USD 10 or INR 470 per CD as the final sales price
Inflow after Distri Commission/Freight expenses will be USD 4 per piece or INR 188 per piece.
Assuming the total production cost of Rs.1.2 crores plus the pre-release/post release publicity cost of Rs.14 lacs the total is Rs.134 lacs.
At this return rate of Rs.188 per piece, you have to sell about 71,330 pieces of CDs to break even. It would be very easy to get carried away with imaginary number of fans and the nos they may buy. But the reality may not be that easy.
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kannansanderson, when crappy Anniyan is produced for 30 crore, why not TIS for 1.2 crore. Dont under estimate the effort TIS team put together and how monumental this task is. The delays are expected when you have a product that is so expensive and no big undertakers. I agree there may have been some mistakes, but like you said, TIS team doesnt intend to make a commercial profit to create this album, but wanted to give one of the best possible album for tamil community. Thats the reason why they have to go with Richard King or Hungarian orchestra.
I dont know if you know the CD pricing here in USA. Tamil movie CDs cost between $8 - $15 depends on where you buy and pricing TIS for $10 or $15 is nothing compared to the crappy albums. Even if you compare TIS to MSS Subrabhatham / Kandar Shashti Kavasam, the CD price is between 10 - 15.
Also, based on your calculation, 72000 pieces of CD is not a big number, because we have huge Srilankan Tamil people who are "shiva" devotees and will surely buy them. The main market for this product is going to be Europe, Canada, Middle east and India and NOT USA. I would be surprised if the product sells even 1000 pieces with in USA.
Also, people donated the money, with the same heart and feeling when they donate money to any temple. They do not want to know how the temple spend that money, neither they expect a detailed ledger from God to know where your $10 was spent.
Its a very tough time for TIS, Fr. Jegath and all other who are involved in this project. if you cant support them, atleast please keep quite and dont discourage.
Thanks njv! I understand the frustration of some of our friends. But people, please stop posting harsh messages. It is not helpful.
Got this message from IR yahoo club's moderator:
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Dear Friends,
Here is the good news that we have been expecting for the past 2 years
and more:
'Thiruvasakam By Ilaiyaraaja' will be launched on June 26, 2005 at
Chennai in a grand function that will be attended and presided over by
many dignitaries. The deal had been signed with 'HMV'only yesterday.
So, it is time that we get ready for the action plan, according to Rev
Fr Jegath Gaspar Raj.
The price will be announced just before release only, to avoid
confusion. Let us get set for the next signal.
Yours Always Musically,
Vijay.
A little late, but better late than never..
Dear all,
here is the mail received today from Fr. Jegath[copied to me] which explains the good news authentically. Let's gear up for its success from now on and work with one heart! Thanks. YIA!!
"Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,
I am pleased to inform you that the release of Thiruvasakam in Symphony is now firmly and irrevocably fixed for June 26, 2005. There will not be any going back.
Though the delay gave us pain, anguish and financial nightmares. I have absolutely no sense of regret or sad feelings because the music is phenomenal, enchantingly creative and it will live for more than a thousand years.
I am pasting here a letter written by Mr. Stephen Schwartz, America’s most celebrated opera play writer. He has written the English lyrics for our album. He sent this letter after listening to the complete Thiruvasakam in Symphony. Here is that letter:
“Last night, at sony studios in New York City, I had the pleasure of hearing the almost – finished mix of Ilaiyaraaja’s amazing work. It is unlike anything I’ve ever heard before, a stunning blend of Indian and of western music and instruments. I asked Mr. Raaja if this was something different for him too, and he said he had never done anything like this piece before. I don’t know if anyone has. So I believe those of you looking forward to this are in for a great treat. The section to which I contributed English words is about twenty minutes long and dovetails back and forth between Mr. Raaja singing in Tamil and an American singer singing in English, plus there is a large and beautifully prouced chorus. Mr. Raaja’s orchestrations are superb, and the recording engineer, Richard King, has done a spectacular job sonically. I felt so very proud to be a small part of this project. The entire project for me has been an enjoyable and fascinating experience from beginning to end, and I feel extremely lucky to have been asked by Mr. Raaja to participate. I can promise you with confidence you are in for a major treat when you hear Thiruvasakam in Symphony”.
- Mr. Stephen Schwartz
I am sure you like this appreciation.
Yours fraternally,
Fr. Jegath Gaspar Raj.