A shame

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Originally Posted by MADDY

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

In spite of age-old discrimination- I feel it is genetic, in the male's build-up, male chauvnism- women have been establishing their importance with superiority, authority, dignity & emphasis from within their fortress! Isles of 'little worlds' do make the society at large, don't they? :huh:

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i feel women should work........they get a broader perspective when they work and mingle with ppl. from various walks of life.........though school/college are already serving that purpose, work area is the place where we all mature........so, i think women should be exposed to the work environment where they will learn and get to see lots of events/incidents/characters and most importantly learn how to react to them :D

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why did such a question arise???

why shud somebody think that women shudnt go to work :huh:

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Originally Posted by Devar Magan

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Originally Posted by Lambretta

Oru VEla unga office'la peNgal yArume vaela-ku varAta ungalku scene romba dull-a theriyum-nu varthathoda ibbidi kobapadrenglo? :wink: J/K! :P :D

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athuvum right thaan :lol:

but, nurture panren, guide panren, values solli kodukurenu sollittu penaathunaa, naan chumma irukka maatten..


our PP madam is discouraging the current generation with her posts.. if she cant encourage us, no problem.. if she openly posts her opinion, i have the right to post mine too.. 8-)

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sabai naagareegam-nu onnu irukku! you have failed despicably in that! shame on you! How can you hope to prevent me from 'openly' expressing my views? I can't understand why I shouldn't express them 'openly'! :roll: Who is preventing you from opening a thread and pouring out all your views. Are you aware of how you are making yourself a laughing stock here by your ridiculous & unrefined expressions?

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Originally Posted by MADDY

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

In spite of age-old discrimination- I feel it is genetic, in the male's build-up, male chauvnism- women have been establishing their importance with superiority, authority, dignity & emphasis from within their fortress! Isles of 'little worlds' do make the society at large, don't they? :huh:

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i feel women should work........they get a broader perspective when they work and mingle with ppl. from various walks of life.........though school/college are already serving that purpose, work area is the place where we all mature........so, i think women should be exposed to the work environment where they will learn and get to see lots of events/incidents/characters and most importantly learn how to react to them :D

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What is preventing them from broadening their 'perspective' from home? Can you imagine the precious need of their presence at home for the family- the children, the elders? Is it replaceable? Yesterday my second son had come to visit us with his 3-year old son. I enjoyed feeding him his lunch using all the ploys I can to push down what I wanted to. I recalled all those happy, past years of the childhood of our own 3 children. Does a paid ayah in a creche stick the spoonfuls with the same affection making it enjoyable for both sides? Kids taken care of full time by the mother DEFINITELY are lucky & they grow into happy, balanced adults. It is a mother's prerogative to watch her child grow, blossom. Don't rob her of it. There is extra dimension of brilliance & confidence in such children. Last night we rang to wish our 5-year old grandson(daughter's son) happy birthday, I asked him playfully 'how old are you?' He answered, 'ten thousand years' and started giggling uncontrollably. this joyful creativeness comes to them only in a safely, intimately nirtured environment. Our 5-year-old grandson from Mumbai (first son's son) rang & told my hubby that he has obtained 2 hundreds in abacus. I asked him, 'thumhE thO sow mil gaya?' Our dil interrupted to say he got 100 only but the teacher had marked 100 in 2 places, on each page. She was strictly telling the truth to her son removing his false opinion. I pleaded with her to let him enjoy a harmless joy. But she wouldn't relent! I would have done the same in her place. But now as grandma I have mellowed to wink at such things!!! But I am proud of my dil in her policy. She spends her whole time & energy for the 2 bright kids & my 'kid'!!! In my footsteps! Both my dils & daughters are very intelligent, educated young ladies with a broad perspective and dedicated, happy housewives. Am I wrong in wishing to spread the good message to the womenkind of our world?

>>There is extra dimension of brilliance & confidence in such children.<<

While attention by parents (esp. mom during early months / years) is very important for child's development, this 'extra' brilliance / confidence is, IMO, only wishful thinking:-) There are millions of 'AyA' grown, brilliant, confident and balanced children. There're also millions of children who were "nurtured" by mom to no end that ended up as average people and also not-so-balanced in their lives. These two are strictly not connected, IMO.

It's nice to see your conviction of parental time and attention to children. However, to attribute that tangibly to brilliance etc. and how the child would act in later years is, again IMO, going overboard. A not-so-wise mom can also spoil her children (both in the health perspecitve and discipline perspective). i.e., if the mother herself is not quite brilliant or balanced, whatever nurturing etc is not going to make a great child.

Another thing - moms with jobs do not automatically mean deprived children. I have seen 100's of moms who live close to work place ("staff quarters" etc), who can manage both, with a little help from some old relative who stays home:-)

Looks like arguing for argument's sake! :lol: Being older than you I may have seen even more instances of unelightened mothers who have made their children grow into pucca villains & brutes!!!

What I wish is enlightenment for women, encouraging home environment for children & elders, pampered life in the shade & safety of home for women( already 'gifted' with enough physical discomforts by nature why aggravate it with all that added strain?). AND peace in the lives of men!!! :wink:

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Looks like arguing for argument's sake! :lol: Being older than you I may have seen even more instances of unelightened mothers who have made their children grow into pucca villains & brutes!!!

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And even after all such experience, you say those who are spoon-fed by moms are "extra" brilliant than others who are spoon-fed by chiththi's, pAtti's and 'AyA's :-) Funny!

It was not an intention to 'argue for argument's sake'. Unscientific ideas cannot be accepted, despite noble intentions. That's all!

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Originally Posted by app_engine

if the mother herself is not quite brilliant or balanced, whatever nurturing etc is not going to make a great child.

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True :)

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Kids taken care of full time by the mother DEFINITELY are lucky & they grow into happy, balanced adults. It is a mother's prerogative to watch her child grow, blossom. Don't rob her of it. There is extra dimension of brilliance & confidence in such children.

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:clap:

ungalOda pala karuththukkal indha generationaala(me too) yEththukka mudiyalanaalum.... idha yaaraalum marukka mudiyaadhu.... :D

chithis, paattis come under my scheme as occassional substitutes for the mothers but not paid ayahs!

mmm..'unscientific'? Well, there are many things in life that just happen-good & bad- which can never have 'scientific' explanation!!! I am for intellectualism, yet I believe strongly in intuitive approach also.

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Originally Posted by sarna_blr

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

In spite of age-old discrimination- I feel it is genetic, in the male's build-up, male chauvnism- women have been establishing their importance with superiority, authority, dignity & emphasis from within their fortress! Isles of 'little worlds' do make the society at large, don't they? :huh:

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neenga enna solla var'reenga.... :roll:

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

enna puriyala? :wink:

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enakku purinjadhu.... but neenga ippadi solveenganu edhirpaarkkala... :?

PS... naan solla nenachchadha DM sollittaaru.... avar sonna ellaa points'um kidayaadhu.......siladhu mattum...

>>encouraging home environment for children<<

After the (last)child goes to school at 5 (nowadays earlier), if a mom is forced to sit idle at home - citing reasons like "physical discomfort" etc, she'll possibly get depressed. This is perhaps one of the reasons for my personal observation of "higher rate of depression among middle aged, educated housewives". That is not so much in the case of working women, much less as per my personal observation. (If statistics from official sources show otherwise, I'll change my opinion).

It's not necessarily a job, but some engaging activity (may be a voluntary service at a local center of charity) is important for women instead of getting spoilt seeing TV serials:-)

<but neenga ippadi solveenganu edhirpaarkkala>

I often laugh to myself in pure amusement at all the 'notions' people have about me!!! kurudan yaaNaiyai paarththa kathaithaan!!!

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Originally Posted by app_engine

>>encouraging home environment for children<<

After the (last)child goes to school at 5 (nowadays earlier), if a mom is forced to sit idle at home - citing reasons like "physical discomfort" etc, she'll possibly get depressed. This is perhaps one of the reasons for my personal observation of "higher rate of depression among middle aged, educated housewives". That is not so much in the case of working women, much less as per my personal observation. (If statistics from official sources show otherwise, I'll change my opinion).

It's not necessarily a job, but some engaging activity (may be a voluntary service at a local center of charity) is important for women instead of getting spoilt seeing TV serials:-)

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veettula irundhaa chummaa irukkaanga'nu arththamaa?... avanga seira vElaya oru naal neenga senju paarunga.... appa puriyum andha kashttam....

>>yet I believe strongly in intuitive approach also<<
எப்படி? அம்மா கையில் அன்னம் உண்ட குழந்தை அல்லாததை விட அறிவாளி என்றா? அம்மா என்றால் அன்பு, நாட் நெசசரிலி அறிவு:-))

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Originally Posted by app_engine

>>encouraging home environment for children<<

After the (last)child goes to school at 5 (nowadays earlier), if a mom is forced to sit idle at home - citing reasons like "physical discomfort" etc, she'll possibly get depressed. This is perhaps one of the reasons for my personal observation of "higher rate of depression among middle aged, educated housewives". That is not so much in the case of working women, much less as per my personal observation. (If statistics from official sources show otherwise, I'll change my opinion).

It's not necessarily a job, but some engaging activity (may be a voluntary service at a local center of charity) is important for women instead of getting spoilt seeing TV serials:-)

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Of course, as the children grow up, women get more leisure, more time for themselves. Not all get immersed in mega serials. There are ever so many activities one can take up without disturbing their household chores. My belief is career women are more prone to stress & depression than women at home! They age faster, suffer more physical ailments! How dependable are your statistics if there are any?

>>veettula irundhaa chummaa irukkaanga'nu arththamaa?... avanga seira vElaya oru naal neenga senju paarunga.... appa puriyum andha kashttam....<<

sarna_blr, we're talking about a situation that a woman experiences after she's suddenly relieved of looking after the child for about 6 hours a day, everything else being the same. I'm not of the opinion that all women at home idle watching TV. (Interstingly, in U.S., the term used is 'home maker' and not 'house wife'). However, with modern technology making a lot of things easy (washing, cooking etc take fraction of a time compared to what our parents had to suffer), it could be hard on women at home. Especially if they are college-educated and want to use some of their knowledge in more ways than helping the child's "home work".:-)

Another thing, sarna_blr, "avanga seira vElaiya" nAn pala nAL seidhrukkEn:-)) So I know exactly the correct magnitude:-))

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Originally Posted by app_engine

Another thing, sarna_blr, "avanga seira vElaiya" nAn pala nAL seidhrukkEn:-)) So I know exactly the correct magnitude:-))

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:bow:

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Originally Posted by app_engine

>>yet I believe strongly in intuitive approach also<<
எப்படி? அம்மா கையில் அன்னம் உண்ட குழந்தை அல்லாததை விட அறிவாளி என்றா? அம்மா என்றால் அன்பு, நாட் நெசசரிலி அறிவு:-))

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If you are bent on arguing like this I can only laugh indulgently!

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Originally Posted by app_engine

, "avanga seira vElaiya" nAn pala nAL seidhrukkEn:-)) So I know exactly the correct magnitude:-))

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Me also :)

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Originally Posted by app_engine

>>veettula irundhaa chummaa irukkaanga'nu arththamaa?... avanga seira vElaya oru naal neenga senju paarunga.... appa puriyum andha kashttam....<<

sarna_blr, we're talking about a situation that a woman experiences after she's suddenly relieved of looking after the child for about 6 hours a day, everything else being the same. I'm not of the opinion that all women at home idle watching TV. (Interstingly, in U.S., the term used is 'home maker' and not 'house wife'). However, with modern technology making a lot of things easy (washing, cooking etc take fraction of a time compared to what our parents had to suffer), it could be hard on women at home. Especially if they are college-educated and want to use some of their knowledge in more ways than helping the child's "home work".:-)

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The labour-saving, time-saving kitchen gadgets are not completely a boon! They are encouraging obesity & all sorts of illnesses, driving us to desperate measures to burn calories- a predicament unknown to our grandmas! kuninji nimirnthu vElai senja pombaLanga evvaLavO healthyaa irunthaanga!
athenna ellOrum college education-ai , athanaal kidaiththa knowledge-ai veLiyE pOy kaasaakkivida vENdum enRu bOthikkiReergaL? :roll:

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Originally Posted by joe

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Originally Posted by app_engine

, "avanga seira vElaiya" nAn pala nAL seidhrukkEn:-)) So I know exactly the correct magnitude:-))

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Me also :)

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My sons while on onsite stints had to do all household work that you are referring to! One never liked it, waited impatiently to return home, the other was resigned to it with reasonable acceptance & after returning keeps 'pestering' his wife by offering to help her!
In the older generation men had no necessity for this compulsory household responsibilities! Nowadays it is a common thing! Reminds me of the jolly discussions we had long ago about 'househusbands'!!! :lol: Many takers for the reversal of the role! :rotfl:

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

My belief is career women are more prone to stress & depression than women at home! They age faster, suffer more physical ailments! How dependable are your statistics if there are any?

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Well, most women that I personally know of who has suffered some form of severe depression happens to be a middle aged, home maker. (If not a regular homemaker, someone who was at that time without a job and at home). FYI, I serve in a voluntary org that deals with a lot of people, apart from my regular full-time job.

That's why I said it's a personal observation. Again, I'm not for or against the "chemical imbalance theory" for depression. There are any number of theories stating the cause for depression. However, one of the common therapy methods is to ask people to engage in "meaningful activity", which could be severely lacking in the case of someone who could be idling at home (that leads to paranoid situations, for e.g.).

I'm willing to change my opinion if there are medical stats otherwise.

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

athenna ellOrum college education-ai , athanaal kidaiththa knowledge-ai veLiyE pOy kaasaakkivida vENdum enRu bOthikkiReergaL? :roll:

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Aampillainga mattum education-a vachu samooga sevaiya pannuraanga ? why restrict only women ?

If a women wanted to be self reliant just like man ,what is wrong ?

Is women education qualification is just for man to show that his wife has got Mba ,MCA etc ? :roll:

>>My sons while on onsite stints had to do all household work that you are referring to!<<

Wrong assumption, in my case:-) Even with a homemaker at my home, it's done as a "choice"!

>>They age faster, suffer more physical ailments<<

Another unscientific theory madam! காட்டுக்குப்போய் வேலை செய்த என் உறவினர்களை விட வீட்டிலிருந்த பெண்டிருக்குத்தான் வியாதி அதிகம்:-))

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

In the older generation men had no necessity for this compulsory household responsibilities! :

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I don't do it for compulsion ..In weekends I try my best to share most of the works and let my wife to spend time with what she likes personally.

Any work on health will tell you how much important out-door activity is. Unless someone has a village like house with a garden etc (becoming rarity nowadays), how is the house-wife going to get that fresh breath of air?

Once again, I'm not talking about only office job / career for women, but activity outside home is a must to be healthy. வீட்டுக்குள் பூட்டி வைக்காதீர்கள்:-)

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Originally Posted by app_engine

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

My belief is career women are more prone to stress & depression than women at home! They age faster, suffer more physical ailments! How dependable are your statistics if there are any?

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Well, most women that I personally know of who has suffered some form of severe depression happens to be a middle aged, home maker. (If not a regular homemaker, someone who was at that time without a job and at home). FYI, I serve in a voluntary org that deals with a lot of people, apart from my regular full-time job.

That's why I said it's a personal observation. Again, I'm not for or against the "chemical imbalance theory" for depression. There are any number of theories stating the cause for depression. However, one of the common therapy methods is to ask people to engage in "meaningful activity", which could be severely lacking in the case of someone who could be idling at home (that leads to paranoid situations, for e.g.).

I'm willing to change my opinion if there are medical stats otherwise.

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Are you referring to Indian conditions? Voluntary services done in India? In our environment I see no reason for 'idling' ( do I read jealousy of men here? :lol: ) leading to paranoia or any depression! :huh:

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Originally Posted by app_engine

காட்டுக்குப்போய் வேலை செய்த என் உறவினர்களை விட வீட்டிலிருந்த பெண்டிருக்குத்தான் வியாதி அதிகம்:-))

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Naan solla ninaithen ..neenga solliteenga :)

Specifically, Kerala. Interestingly, I observe the same here in Michigan!

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Originally Posted by joe

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

athenna ellOrum college education-ai , athanaal kidaiththa knowledge-ai veLiyE pOy kaasaakkivida vENdum enRu bOthikkiReergaL? :roll:

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Aampillainga mattum education-a vachu samooga sevaiya pannuraanga ? why restrict only women ?

If a women wanted to be self reliant just like man ,what is wrong ?

Is women education qualification is just for man to show that his wife has got Mba ,MCA etc ? :roll:

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uththiyOgam purusha latchaNam! :lol:

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Originally Posted by joe

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Originally Posted by app_engine

காட்டுக்குப்போய் வேலை செய்த என் உறவினர்களை விட வீட்டிலிருந்த பெண்டிருக்குத்தான் வியாதி அதிகம்:-))

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Naan solla ninaithen ..neenga solliteenga :)

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pattaNaththu poNNukaLa eppadi pattikaattukku kudipeyarkka mudiyum? kaattu vElaikkum veettu vElaikkum comparison illai! veettu vElaikkum, office vElaikkumthaan ippo discussion!

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

uththiyOgam purusha latchaNam! :lol:

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Then ,what is next ?

Adimaiththanam is Manushi Latchanam? :roll:

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Originally Posted by app_engine

Any work on health will tell you how much important out-door activity is. Unless someone has a village like house with a garden etc (becoming rarity nowadays), how is the house-wife going to get that fresh breath of air?

Once again, I'm not talking about only office job / career for women, but activity outside home is a must to be healthy. வீட்டுக்குள் பூட்டி வைக்காதீர்கள்:-)

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Who said women are under lock & key??? :roll:

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Originally Posted by joe

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

uththiyOgam purusha latchaNam! :lol:

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Then ,what is next ?

Adimaiththanam is Manushi Latchanam? :roll:

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What is adimaiththanam??? :roll:

There is something called 'figurative' language:-) Anyways, let me explain what it means -

'pootti vaiththal' can easily be done by statements like below:

-women, be at home in your little kingdom as outside home is man's kingdom
-women, be happy about child-rearing at home and kitchen activites. May be read, surf, watch TV etc but never worry about any activity outside - not even charitable work
-women, working and earning money is not for you. It's only for men to be engaged in

All the above are figurative lock & key stuff. To work or not work depends upon one's situation and INDIVIDUAL CHOICE. I may not know the best situation for "Mrs Lakshmi" or "Miss Meena" as much as they do:-) (Disclaimer - names are just generic examples, does not refer to any individual)

Time to go to bed!!!

One of my childhood friends was the eldest of 6 and his dad worked with my dad, but was an alcoholic. Apart from not giving a paisa to home, he'll hit wife, throw vessels around, shout and abuse children. The mom, though wanted to remedy the situation, had only primary education. So what did she finally do? Worked in the local school kitchen and brought up all the children. Can we tell her to sit home, after all 'uththiyOgam is purusha lakshanam'? Then we won't have 6 mature adults in the society today (and my friend later took care of his dad's addiction after he grew up and employed, by treating him in a clinic), but possibly criminals.

So, the decision to work or not has to be on a case-by-case basis. There cannot be a blanket statement.