The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

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Originally Posted by Nitai

I heard the story differently.

Arjuna was a famous fighter, and he attained fame by fighting many great demigods, including even Lord Siva. After fighting and defeating Lord Siva in the dress of a hunter, Arjuna pleased the lord and received as a reward a weapon called pashupata-astra.

Nitai

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Dear Nitai,

This is very hilarious, no offence meant, but how can Paramatama Maha Iswar, he is Combination of lord Vishnu and Lord bramha, this is CLEARLY shown in ShivaLingam, Shivratri is a symbol of this!

This act was planned by Lord Krishna to get rid of Arjuna's ego, if Arjuna does win the battle , logicaly speaking his ego would reach
unlimited level, wouldn't you agree?, so what's the moral value behind this?

Please Do tell me where you heard this story, because it is pathetic, Pasupathasthra was attained by Lord Krishna and Arjuna, when they went to Kailash to do a pooja towards Maha Iswar.

Please note my post was never INTENDED to offend you, it's just people just make up their own interpretation of the story, who ever told you this must have misunderstood this.

SUPERIORITY.. amongst Gods.. especially SIVA and VISHNU?

Dear Mr. badri99,

Please Narrate in detail about this Episode of Siva-Arjuna quarrel over a Boar... and further Arjuna's fetching Pasupathasthra from Lord Siva..

Dear Mr. Raghu,

In Mahabharatha... there is not much room of Superiority amongst various Vedic- Gods.

In fact... it alleviates all the doubts about such probable Confusions and clarifies on the possible misconceptions as also drives off all the Surmises.

Almost all the Gods denoted by Vedas .. take part in Mahabharatha... in a Dramatic-Story Form... to establish the Sense of Vedas ... by action depicting the Vedic- Gospels as also through words uttered by its various Characters .

And further too... the most intricacies are explained in Bhagawad- Geetha... a Scientific- Gospel ... applicable for any Global Human irrespective of Religion.

We can say a lot lot more... on Mahabharatha which STRESSES and establishes..

.. the. IMPORTANCE AND NECESSITIES of BROAD-MINDENESS in Life

... especially being a Rich Subject relevant with Morality coupled with Wisdom.

Vedic-Religion... describes every God.... HIGHLY ... even Indra and Vayu...

... then should we discriminate Maha-Deva and Maha-Vishnu?

Rudram ... a part of Veda... intended to exclusively praise the Glory of Siva ... praises Vishnu also in between...

... while Purusha-Sooktha.. another part of Veda... relevant to exclusively to praise Vishnu... praises Lord Siva too. ..

... even amongst such Vishnu-praising terminologies... it says...

SA BRAHMA... SA SIVA... SA INDRA... SA-AKSHARA... PARAMA- SWARAAT.

... which means.... "the same Vishnu... is also Siva or Brahma or Indra... or an Invisible Abstract-power eternal... Supreme... (according to individuals outlook and FREE- OPTION)

So we should not indulge in such discriminatory approach at all.

... but the Great Sense-Values and Rich- beauty in every bit of its FERTILE content of Mahabharatha the Eternal Human- Gospel.

You are perhaps... the best example for such Broad-mindedness..

... By name Raghu... You are Ramadas.

... By Awatar... You are Krishna-das.

.. By Faith... SIVADAS...

Well.... .THREE IN ONE... Nice and Happy to know.... Keep it up..

I will speak more on Siva - Vishnu relations...as also on the great moral- lessons behind this episode...

... after hearing from Mr. Badri 99.

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

... which means.... "the same Vishnu... is also Siva or Brahma or Indra... or an Invisible Abstract-power eternal... Supreme... (according to individuals outlook and FREE- OPTION)

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Dear Sudhama Sir

Yes I agree with you completely, you can virtually call the Paramathama (Ultimate Truth) by various names, and forms! here our friend said that Arjuna won the battle over the Paramathama, which can never be true!, if an Atma can win over the Paramatha, what is the point of this Paramatha the abstract class?, besides Arjuna's ego (thinking that he is the best archer in universe) was the subject when Arjuna Confronts Maha Deva, so if Arjuna defeats Maha Deva, would his ego, get any lesser?,

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

So we should not indulge in such discriminatory approach at all.

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Not at all, sir, if we indulge in such act, which means we still have not understood the Paramatma

thank you

Om NamaShivaya

Quotes:

At the birth of Arjuna Kunti heard a heavenly voice declare as follows : "Oh ! Kunti ! your son will be equal to Siva in prowess and unconquerable just as Indra is. After defeating all the Kings he will perform the A'svamedha thrice. He will please Siva and get the great weapon called Pasupata from him.
I think this is from Mahabharata

MUKA - An asura. This demon once went to Arjuna who was engaged in penance in the forests. He had assumed the form of a boar 'and Arjuna killed him. At once Siva appeared there in the guise of a forester and contended that the boar was killed by him. A quarrel ensued which ended in a fight between them. In the end Siva appeared before Arjuna in his real form and granted him the missile Pasupata.

PASUPATA. II. The missile of Siva. Arjuna during his exile in the forests performed penance to propitiate Siva and got this missile from him.

All these quotes are from the Puranic Encyclopedia. Sometimes it is unclear from where they are, which sastra.
Regarding Arjuna's ego. Well, Krishna was always guiding Arjuna even the Bhagavad-gita was spoken to him so seemingly to us Arjuna in his action has an ahankar but actually because he is surrendered to Krishna he is situated in his real ego as an eternal servant of Krishna. This can be confirmed to you by any member of 4 bona fide Vaishnava sampradayas.

Krishna might also fought with Siva and he got the pasupata astra but it seems that this happened in some other Dvapara yuga.

Sri Krishna Svayam Bhagavan ki Jay.

In the Rg veda it is clearly said that of all Gods Vishnu is the highest and Agni is the lowest. Therefore, there is hierarchy of different Gods some are like ministers and there is one president - Vishnu. E.g. when there are problems with demons - just remember - the demigods always go to the shore of the milk-ocean to seek the help of Lord Vishnu.

But, superior than Vishnu is Krishna. Here are some sastric quotes if you are followers of satra think about them.

iisvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-aananda-vigrahah
anaadir aadir govindah
sarva-kaarana-kaaranam

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Krsna, who has a body of
eternity, knowledge, and bliss. He has not beginning, for He is the
beginning of everything. He is the cause of all causes."
(Brahma-samhitaa 5.1)

yasyaika-nisvasita-kaalam athaavalambya
jiivanti loma-vila-jaa jagad-anda-naathaah
visnur mahaan sa iha yasya kalaa-viseso
govindam aadi-purusam tam aham bhajaami

"The Mahaa-Visnu, into whom all the innumerable universes enter
and from whome they come forth again simply by His breathing
process, is a plenary expansion of Krsna. Therefore I worship
Govinda, Krsna, the cause of all causes." (Brahma-samhitaa 5.48)

So, what do you need to understand Krishna's position?

"The form you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be
understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me AS I AM."

"My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be
understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen
directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My
understanding." (Bhagavad-gita 11.53-54)

CONCLUSION:
Bhagavad-gita 7.7 Knowledge of the Absolute

mattah parataram nanyat
kincid asti dhananjaya
mayi sarvam idam protam
sutre mani-gana iva


O conqueror of wealth [Arjuna], there is no Truth superior to Me [KRISHNA]. Everything rests upon Me [KRISHNA], as pearls are strung on a thread.

The Mahabharata had described the meeting between Hanuman and Bhima. Once, while Arjuna was seeking celestial weapons, the remaining Pandavas wandered to Badarikasrama high in the Himalayas. Suddenly, the Alakananda River carried to Draupadi a beautiful and fragrant thousand-petaled lotus flower. Draupadi was captivated by its beauty and scent. "Bhima, this lotus flower is so beautiful. I should offer it to Yudhisthira Maharaja. Could you get me a few more? We could take some back to our hermitage in Kamyaka."
Bhima grabbed his club and charged up the hill where no mortals were permitted. As he ran, he bellowed, frightening elephants and lions, and he uprooted trees as he pushed them aside. Caring not for the ferocious beasts of the jungle, he climbed a steep mountain until his progress was blocked by a huge monkey who was lying across the path, "Why are you making so much noise and scaring all the animals. Just sit down and eat some fruit." "Move aside," ordered Bhima, for etiquette forbade him to step over the monkey. The monkey's reply? "I am too old to move. Jump over me." Bhima, becoming angry, repeated his order. But the monkey, again pleading the weakness of old age, requested Bhima to simply move his tail aside. Unlimitedly powerful Bhima grabbed the tail and tried but failed. Amazed, he respectfully inquired as to the monkey's identity and was overjoyed to learn that he had met his brother Hanuman, for both Bhima and Hanuman were sons of Vayu. Hanuman first embraced Bhima and showed him the huge form by which he leaped to Lanka. He then offered Bhima the following blessings. "I shall also remain present on the flag of your brother Arjuna. When you roar like a lion on the battlefield, my voice will join with yours to strike terror in the hearts of your enemies. You will be victorious and will regain your kingdom."

A small clarification. There is a promise of Krishna to (actually, everybody) who take His shelter. And this is the reason why Arjuna defeated Lord Siva.

In the Bhagavad-gita (Bg. 9.31) Krishna says:

Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati:

"My devotee is never vanquished."



Hare Krishna.
Nitai

Dear Mr. Nitai,

You are going far-away from the Topic Mahabharatha... There is no Question here... Which God is Superior...

When such a Question indirectly raised its hood.. I had already silenced it ...

.. ..by means of the Broad-sense of TRUE-VEDIC-SPIRIT...

//In the Rg veda it is clearly said that of all Gods Vishnu is the highest and Agni is the lowest. Therefore, there is hierarchy of different Gods some are like ministers and there is one president - Vishnu. E.g. when there are problems with demons - just remember - the demigods always go to the shore of the milk-ocean to seek the help of Lord Vishnu//.


It is Not correct to say that any Vedic-Scripture indicates "Agni" as the LOWEST GOD.... No... Not at all.

But Contrarily all the Scriptures UNANIMOUSLY declare that the PUREST GOD-FORM prevalent in all the seven Worlds... including Earth... is AGNI...

Basic authority for all the Scriptures... is Vedas... within which the Most important section is... Purusha-sooktham... which asserts... that all the HIGHEST MIGHTS AND GODS... emanated from the Holy-Face of the... Sarva-Deva- Aikya-Swaroopa Viraat- Purusha- Vishnu...

.... which also asserts... " MUKHAADH INDHRAHSCHA... "AGNIHSCHA". ----..AJAAYATHA.

... ..which means that "Agni emanated from His Face.... the Holiest of Hollies."

But Agni is specifically mentioned in the Scriptures that ... coupled with His Wife SWAHA-DEVI..

AGNI... is the most HUMBLE-SERVICE-MAN for all the Gods as a MEDIA- Agent between the Receiver Gods and Offering Devotees. anywhere in the seven worlds including Earth.

That is why we offer all our Homa-Offerings in the Agni-Kunda...

... start Chanting... Ohm AGNAYAE SWAAHAA ANNAAYAE IDHANNA MAMA...

... meaning..." Primarily I offer you this Aahuthi My offer- Anna (Food)"... which please you receive first

...and the subsequent Aahuthis ... let reach the specific God whom I call after naming your wife SWAAHAA.- Devi

Accordingly follows....OHM KAESAVAAYAH SWAAHAA KAESAAVAAYAE IDHANNA MAMA. .. and so on.

We have to understand this sense... SIMILAR TO HANUMAN... who can fetch the Greatest Boons sought by Devotees from Gods...

... just in the capacity as MESSENGER IN BETWEEN.... the Two Remotes

... Hanuman is so powerful... and GREAT-PRIVILEGED.... even though very HUMBLE..

// But, superior than Vishnu is Krishna. Here are some sastric quotes if you are followers of satra think about them.//
None of us here ... are interested to the Ultimate-Sense of Vedic- Spirit.. the SUPREME.

... but only its BROAD-OUTLOOK. of Reality.. which alone is applicable for Common-Man's Life..

... which SENSE... is the ESSENCE OF MAHABHAARATHA...

Your ARGUMENT differentiating Krishna and Vishnu... is FUNNY... which is an unfounded PAROCHIAL OUTLOOK...

But if you feel so .. please carry on Accordingly.. APPLICABLE TO YOU ONLY...

. Please DON'T PREACH US. ... Because we follow our individual Acharyas... which are well-defined needing no more intervention nor RIDICULOUS INTERPRETATIONS of anyone's own..

Do you know that... to the Siva-Devotee Arjuna... Krishna showed HIMSELF AS SIVA... on whom Arjuna performed decorations and Arjuna... believing as Siva....

... and was AMAZED to note on the next day... the same decorations and Flowers offered as Archana on Krishna's body...... were found exactly at the same manner and locations... at the Siva-linga ... he used to worship daily. He noticed it as if he performed at the Linga Himself on the previuous day too.

Then Arjuna understood the True-Sense of Devotional-Spirit of Vedic- sense..

If you know it... please elaborate here... instead of "Out of the way Dry Arguments."

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Originally Posted by Nitai

So the best thing is to take to Krishna consciousness....

Hare Krishna.
Nitai

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NOV, the post made by the hubber is offensive in nature.
Please kindly delete it.

Sudhaama wrote

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Dear Mr. badri99,

Please Narrate in detail about this Episode of Siva-Arjuna quarrel over a Boar... and further Arjuna's fetching Pasupathasthra from Lord Siva.. .. after hearing from Mr. Badri 99.

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Dear Sudhaama: Why bring me into this?

In any case, the story has already been discussed! What more can I add? The episode of Arjuna-Siva fight has been immortalised in the Kirataarjuniya.

On the advice of Veda Vyasa and Indra, Arjuna undertakes penance to propitiate Lord Siva and obtain His Grace. To test Arjuna's skill and sincerity, Siva enacts a drama. Accordingly, a large wild boar comes rushing towards where Arjuna is performing his Siva Puja. Seeing the boar rush towards him, and although bound by a vow of non-violence during the period of the penance, Arjuna seizes his bow and arrows when a Bhil or a Kirata (hunter) comes into the scene. He is accompanied by his wife (which is rather surprising to Arjuna, as women rarely joined their husbands on hunts in the jungle) and followed by a retinue of fierce warriors.

The Kirata accosts Arjuna and tells him, "Hey, you, that is my boar. Beware if you do anything to it."

Arjuna, who had taken up arms in defence is now stung by the casual way in which the hunter speaks to him. Though he realized the hunter probably did not know he was the famous Arjuna, his ego was stung and he at once shot an arrow through the boar, killing it. At the exact same moment, an arrow of the Kirata too pierces the boar and there ensues an argument as to who killed the boar, and therefore who it belongs to.

This develops into a fight and Arjuna finds he is no match to the Kirata. This is when his pride is quelled. He recollects within, "Krishna, what a strange drama is this? Whos is this Kirata, a mere hunter, who can vanquish even me? Is this really you who have come in this guise? Indeed, this must be your drama."

When that humility comes into him, he turns around to see the Kirata, but sees in his place, Siva and Parvati. Siva blesses him and gives him the Paashupatastra.

A good story. But as with all good stories, what is the moral, the lesson?

Arjuna was doing one-pointed penance to Siva. If his penance were truly one-pointed, he could not have failed to recognize the very object of his devotion come in another guise. But because his ego was still blinding him, he only saw the Kirata, and not the true entity behind him, namely, Lord Siva. When the scales of ego fell from his eyes, he had the true vision of the Lord. Thus, if we too abandon our exagerrated notions of ourselves, if we develop a humility that is befitting our spiritual pursuit, we too would have the darshan (vision) of the Lord.

Again, the Lord may choose to come in any form, and not always the one we are expecting Him in. Our prejudices or narrow beliefs may call for one God as superior to another! But as long as such divisiveness exists, the Lord will most certainly not be perceived. When we commit the grave sin of dividing into many that which is indivisible and akanda, how are we to be blessed with the Vision Divine? So the wise say.